Killing other players... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Killing other players... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harriet
06-04-05, 02:07 AM Is it morally right to do so? Is it okay if it's in character? What do the circumstances need to be?

Right now, me and a friend are contemplating killing the whole rest of our party, to take their **** and be mean. I guess it could be one of those games where you just wanna flush down the drain. In fact, my friend asked our DM if he'd let us get away with it, and he said he would. It's that kind of game.

Oh. And one more thing - isn't there some unspoken rule about not having SO's in the same campaign? I mean. D&D is something friends do, not some place to take your date. Any thoughts?
Vaalingrade Ashland
06-04-05, 02:12 AM You won't be invited to play again if the group is any good.

Only the lowest of the low PKs and ruins the rest of the players' fun.
Harriet
06-04-05, 02:15 AM Yeah, see. That's the thing - there is no fun to be ruined.
Vaalingrade Ashland
06-04-05, 03:29 AM It certainly won't if you gank other people's characters.

If you don't like the game, walk. Don't try to screw up the game because you're not happy.
Kadasbrass
06-04-05, 04:21 AM Its worse when the DM sets it up so the only way to get xp is killing other party members (or go hard core evil, that works too :( )

Killing party members open the floodgates, these are not the type of things that heal easily. If you do it, a number of things will happen. 1) may have to find a new group, 2) The other plays will have less trust in you from now on, 3) Your going to have to lose one of your favorite characters to the people you killed this time (People don't forget what others have done to them).

Just remember the NASA skylap rules, Don't do it, if you can't keep it up.
75RD Drum Clip
06-04-05, 05:31 AM It's game, I vote that you go for it, the DM gave you the go ahead.
snowlynx
06-04-05, 08:30 AM Oh. And one more thing - isn't there some unspoken rule about not having SO's in the same campaign? I mean. D&D is something friends do, not some place to take your date. Any thoughts?

And lose half my players?! (3 pairs.)
If having S.O.s in the party is actually causing problems, then worry, but I know plenty of married couples who play, and they are quite capable of playing....and it's not a 'date'.

Is it morally right to do so? Is it okay if it's in character? What do the circumstances need to be?
Umm...a agreed upon duel between two characters, when circumstance has led them to hate each other, and the players both understand there is no other way. Regardless of circumstance, the other player must be okay with the decision that the characters will be fighting or dying.

I will admit to having fought other player characters before, but it was always in a circumstance where I knew neither of us would be killed for the effort (and usually with subdual attacks or drow poison.)
Lily_Knight
06-04-05, 09:14 AM Well it depends on your group. Some groups are very serious, whilst others like to butcher each other all the time. Consider the context as well as the group if you have to make any decision. If there was an out-of game influence (eg. boredom, before game incidence) then it is inappropiate.
The Man from Uncle
06-04-05, 10:09 AM To a certain extent I have to agree with Lily's advice.

'If there was an out-of game influence (eg. boredom, before game incidence)
then it is inappropiate.'

At the same time if things in the group aren't going well then may be SOMETHING needs to be done to rescue things. I don't think trying to kill the party off is the way forward at all (unless as snowlynx says it's agreed OOC), but maybe suggesting a reset or something else.

The only case I have ever heard of where PKs enhanced the story was when a large band/guild of adventurers, who were the combined characters of myself and several of my friends (maybe 2-5 characters per player in the group (though we only ever played 1 character at a time during any session)) over several years (this was back in Ad&d), had a mystery assasin that kept bumping off members of the group. We all lost characters to this assasin and had many adventures putting the puzzle together. We all agreed OOC with the DM that a few of our characters would die and we of course assumed that the killer was some NPC that the DM came up with. It turned out to be a PC within the group (the player who controlled him even killed off one of his own characters). In real time it took about 6 months to work out what was going on, and the player stayed quiet the whole time. It actually worked very well and gave us a watershed to start up a whole new era of gaming.
Black Kitten
06-04-05, 12:22 PM PK's and TPK's are allowed in my group as long as it has a clear RP reason. For example, my character (not me, mind you) has no sense of humor, a terrible personality and a high code of honour. When our Half-Drow Monk decided to pull a trick on me, my character fumed so much that only interfearance of another character could prevent an untimely death of this character.
Dungeon Master
06-04-05, 12:38 PM Just because the DM says it's okay, doesn't make it okay. The one question you should ask yourself is: how will the other players react?

If they don't find the game fun, and you know that they won't care if their characters die, then by all means go for it. If you are the only one who dislikes the campaign, it would be extremely selfish of you to kill their characters.
The Half-Orc Wizard
06-04-05, 12:50 PM I think inner-group fighting can be very interesting, on one condition. You give your opponents a chance. Challenge them to a duel. Stabbing them when they sleep will create very hard feelings, and that's understandable. It's entirely possible your character could die, but I think it's a risk you have to take if you want to keep your current group of players.

The circumstances have to be exactly as they would be if this was an NPC. Have they physically tried to hurt you, stolen things from you? when deciding whether or not to try to kill them, decide if the characters truly deserve it (and some do). Your own character's morality helps too. If he's NG, he would be more willing to forgive than a CE char. Also, the nature of your fellow players are important. Are they carefree, or do they take things very seriously? A lot fo things you have to look at.

In the end, allow your fellow players' characters (as long as they deserve to die) a chance to have an honorable death. Sometimes it has to be done, but there cna still be excitement when it does happen.
Bonzai
06-04-05, 01:08 PM I think it depends on the group, the game, and the characters. If the group is understanding, and there is a very good reason to do so rp wise (like say in an all Drow one shot campaign), then yes.

If no one is having fun in this campaign, and you all want it to end, then having the two kill the rest of the part is a definate way to end it. Maybe the DM can use them as the bad guys for the next campaign and the new players get to hunt them down...

The most important thing is not to alienate the people you play with. As long as it's all in good fun, and everyone is cool with it, there should be no problems.
Harriet
06-05-05, 12:45 AM Thanks for the feedback, no PC's were killed in today's session, though it was kind of tempting. I'll probably just keep an eye open, because they've been getting my character in needless trouble on selfish conquests...

Goodness. I almost miss DMing for a bunch of my girlfriends, they were great players, but it might have helped that they were all new to it. Ah well.
Vaelan
06-05-05, 05:23 AM Picking fights with other players because you're bored: bad.
Two PCs fighting due to a valid in-character reason: good.

I would like to agree with The Half-Orc Wizard. At least make it an interesting fight and not, "I kill you in your sleep, make a new character." :)

Why are you so dead-set against it, Vaalingrade? Is it just the particulars of this situation, or is it how you feel about the matter of killing another PC in general?
Taris
06-05-05, 09:13 AM You're not thinking outside the box. You're too stuck on the idea that you have to personally kill the characters.

Look, it's easy. Have a bounty on them. Put out some gold. Claim they stole some stuff of yours. Bribe the local constabulary to go in cahoots with you. Do all this with the GM only, and not with the other players around to catch wind of any trouble.

Then watch as the constables drag off your friends in the middle of the night for an eventual execution.

Have them trump up some charges. Kill some escape attempts. Watch the execution. Throw cabbage at their corpses as they dangle on the rope, the end.

Easy.
Zeteg
06-05-05, 12:32 PM Hmm... you should probably make sure your other group members arn't violent or short tempered. Killing your other party members only works if your group is extremely mature and realize you had a justified reason to do it. Elsewise, no matter the reason, they'll probably get angry and quit, or something like that. It's a good way to end the campaign in that case.
weasel fierce
06-05-05, 01:39 PM Its a game. Nothing moral or immoral can come from it.

However, I'd avoid killing party members unless you're in a spot where you have no other realistic option, as it basically ends the campaign and rarely makes things fun for anyone.

As far as significant others, as long as people are behaving mature about it, I dont see a problem.
Maerdash
06-06-05, 12:56 AM To a certain extent I have to agree with Lily's advice.

'If there was an out-of game influence (eg. boredom, before game incidence)
then it is inappropiate.'

At the same time if things in the group aren't going well then may be SOMETHING needs to be done to rescue things. I don't think trying to kill the party off is the way forward at all (unless as snowlynx says it's agreed OOC), but maybe suggesting a reset or something else.

The only case I have ever heard of where PKs enhanced the story was when a large band/guild of adventurers, who were the combined characters of myself and several of my friends (maybe 2-5 characters per player in the group (though we only ever played 1 character at a time during any session)) over several years (this was back in Ad&d), had a mystery assasin that kept bumping off members of the group. We all lost characters to this assasin and had many adventures putting the puzzle together. We all agreed OOC with the DM that a few of our characters would die and we of course assumed that the killer was some NPC that the DM came up with. It turned out to be a PC within the group (the player who controlled him even killed off one of his own characters). In real time it took about 6 months to work out what was going on, and the player stayed quiet the whole time. It actually worked very well and gave us a watershed to start up a whole new era of gaming.
The Man From Uncle has summed everything up nicely as usual, Ill only add one thing (well ill butcher the language trying to add one thing :D ) Killing party memebers is perfectly accebtable as long as the other party members are mature enough to deal with it, if they aren't then its pretty much a no fly zone, especially for no other reason than being bored.
Oh, and by mature enough, I mean that they realize its a game and it wont ruin the players overall enjoyment of the game.
amethal
06-06-05, 08:00 AM Is it morally right to do so? Is it okay if it's in character? What do the circumstances need to be?Shouldn't this thread be entitled killing other characters ?

If killing another character is "in character" for your character, then it should be done. It is bad roleplaying not to.

For example, if you're playing a bloodthirsty dwarf fighter who flies into a killing frenzy any time an opponent criticises his dress sense, and the fellow party members have seen this on many occasions, then you could be obliged to attack any of them who (was stupid enough to) insult you in that way.

However, it can also completely ruin campaigns and friendships, so the trick is to design your character in such a way that you prefer not to kill your comrades, and are willing to cut them some considerable slack.

If another character is driving this mild mannered paragon to consider murder, I strongly advise discussing it with your DM and the other player first. The other player can tone down how his character is acting, or one of the characters can leave the group.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harriet 06-04-05, 02:07 AM	Is it morally right to do so? Is it okay if it's in character? What do the circumstances need to be? Right now, me and a friend are contemplating killing the whole rest of our party, to take their **** and be mean. I guess it could be one of those games where you just wanna flush down the drain. In fact, my friend asked our DM if he'd let us get away with it, and he said he would. It's that kind of game. Oh. And one more thing - isn't there some unspoken rule about not having SO's in the same campaign? I mean. D&D is something friends do, not some place to take your date. Any thoughts?
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-04-05, 02:12 AM	You won't be invited to play again if the group is any good. Only the lowest of the low PKs and ruins the rest of the players' fun.
Harriet 06-04-05, 02:15 AM	Yeah, see. That's the thing - there is no fun to be ruined.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-04-05, 03:29 AM	It certainly won't if you gank other people's characters. If you don't like the game, walk. Don't try to screw up the game because you're not happy.
Kadasbrass 06-04-05, 04:21 AM	Its worse when the DM sets it up so the only way to get xp is killing other party members (or go hard core evil, that works too :( ) Killing party members open the floodgates, these are not the type of things that heal easily. If you do it, a number of things will happen. 1) may have to find a new group, 2) The other plays will have less trust in you from now on, 3) Your going to have to lose one of your favorite characters to the people you killed this time (People don't forget what others have done to them). Just remember the NASA skylap rules, Don't do it, if you can't keep it up.
75RD Drum Clip 06-04-05, 05:31 AM	It's game, I vote that you go for it, the DM gave you the go ahead.
snowlynx 06-04-05, 08:30 AM	Oh. And one more thing - isn't there some unspoken rule about not having SO's in the same campaign? I mean. D&D is something friends do, not some place to take your date. Any thoughts? And lose half my players?! (3 pairs.) If having S.O.s in the party is actually causing problems, then worry, but I know plenty of married couples who play, and they are quite capable of playing....and it's not a 'date'. Is it morally right to do so? Is it okay if it's in character? What do the circumstances need to be? Umm...a agreed upon duel between two characters, when circumstance has led them to hate each other, and the players both understand there is no other way. Regardless of circumstance, the other player must be okay with the decision that the characters will be fighting or dying. I will admit to having fought other player characters before, but it was always in a circumstance where I knew neither of us would be killed for the effort (and usually with subdual attacks or drow poison.)
Lily_Knight 06-04-05, 09:14 AM	Well it depends on your group. Some groups are very serious, whilst others like to butcher each other all the time. Consider the context as well as the group if you have to make any decision. If there was an out-of game influence (eg. boredom, before game incidence) then it is inappropiate.
The Man from Uncle 06-04-05, 10:09 AM	To a certain extent I have to agree with Lily's advice. 'If there was an out-of game influence (eg. boredom, before game incidence) then it is inappropiate.' At the same time if things in the group aren't going well then may be SOMETHING needs to be done to rescue things. I don't think trying to kill the party off is the way forward at all (unless as snowlynx says it's agreed OOC), but maybe suggesting a reset or something else. The only case I have ever heard of where PKs enhanced the story was when a large band/guild of adventurers, who were the combined characters of myself and several of my friends (maybe 2-5 characters per player in the group (though we only ever played 1 character at a time during any session)) over several years (this was back in Ad&d), had a mystery assasin that kept bumping off members of the group. We all lost characters to this assasin and had many adventures putting the puzzle together. We all agreed OOC with the DM that a few of our characters would die and we of course assumed that the killer was some NPC that the DM came up with. It turned out to be a PC within the group (the player who controlled him even killed off one of his own characters). In real time it took about 6 months to work out what was going on, and the player stayed quiet the whole time. It actually worked very well and gave us a watershed to start up a whole new era of gaming.
Black Kitten 06-04-05, 12:22 PM	PK's and TPK's are allowed in my group as long as it has a clear RP reason. For example, my character (not me, mind you) has no sense of humor, a terrible personality and a high code of honour. When our Half-Drow Monk decided to pull a trick on me, my character fumed so much that only interfearance of another character could prevent an untimely death of this character.
Dungeon Master 06-04-05, 12:38 PM	Just because the DM says it's okay, doesn't make it okay. The one question you should ask yourself is: how will the other players react? If they don't find the game fun, and you know that they won't care if their characters die, then by all means go for it. If you are the only one who dislikes the campaign, it would be extremely selfish of you to kill their characters.
The Half-Orc Wizard 06-04-05, 12:50 PM	I think inner-group fighting can be very interesting, on one condition. You give your opponents a chance. Challenge them to a duel. Stabbing them when they sleep will create very hard feelings, and that's understandable. It's entirely possible your character could die, but I think it's a risk you have to take if you want to keep your current group of players. The circumstances have to be exactly as they would be if this was an NPC. Have they physically tried to hurt you, stolen things from you? when deciding whether or not to try to kill them, decide if the characters truly deserve it (and some do). Your own character's morality helps too. If he's NG, he would be more willing to forgive than a CE char. Also, the nature of your fellow players are important. Are they carefree, or do they take things very seriously? A lot fo things you have to look at. In the end, allow your fellow players' characters (as long as they deserve to die) a chance to have an honorable death. Sometimes it has to be done, but there cna still be excitement when it does happen.
Bonzai 06-04-05, 01:08 PM	I think it depends on the group, the game, and the characters. If the group is understanding, and there is a very good reason to do so rp wise (like say in an all Drow one shot campaign), then yes. If no one is having fun in this campaign, and you all want it to end, then having the two kill the rest of the part is a definate way to end it. Maybe the DM can use them as the bad guys for the next campaign and the new players get to hunt them down... The most important thing is not to alienate the people you play with. As long as it's all in good fun, and everyone is cool with it, there should be no problems.
Harriet 06-05-05, 12:45 AM	Thanks for the feedback, no PC's were killed in today's session, though it was kind of tempting. I'll probably just keep an eye open, because they've been getting my character in needless trouble on selfish conquests... Goodness. I almost miss DMing for a bunch of my girlfriends, they were great players, but it might have helped that they were all new to it. Ah well.
Vaelan 06-05-05, 05:23 AM	Picking fights with other players because you're bored: bad. Two PCs fighting due to a valid in-character reason: good. I would like to agree with The Half-Orc Wizard. At least make it an interesting fight and not, "I kill you in your sleep, make a new character." :) Why are you so dead-set against it, Vaalingrade? Is it just the particulars of this situation, or is it how you feel about the matter of killing another PC in general?
Taris 06-05-05, 09:13 AM	You're not thinking outside the box. You're too stuck on the idea that you have to personally kill the characters. Look, it's easy. Have a bounty on them. Put out some gold. Claim they stole some stuff of yours. Bribe the local constabulary to go in cahoots with you. Do all this with the GM only, and not with the other players around to catch wind of any trouble. Then watch as the constables drag off your friends in the middle of the night for an eventual execution. Have them trump up some charges. Kill some escape attempts. Watch the execution. Throw cabbage at their corpses as they dangle on the rope, the end. Easy.
Zeteg 06-05-05, 12:32 PM	Hmm... you should probably make sure your other group members arn't violent or short tempered. Killing your other party members only works if your group is extremely mature and realize you had a justified reason to do it. Elsewise, no matter the reason, they'll probably get angry and quit, or something like that. It's a good way to end the campaign in that case.
weasel fierce 06-05-05, 01:39 PM	Its a game. Nothing moral or immoral can come from it. However, I'd avoid killing party members unless you're in a spot where you have no other realistic option, as it basically ends the campaign and rarely makes things fun for anyone. As far as significant others, as long as people are behaving mature about it, I dont see a problem.
Maerdash 06-06-05, 12:56 AM	To a certain extent I have to agree with Lily's advice. 'If there was an out-of game influence (eg. boredom, before game incidence) then it is inappropiate.' At the same time if things in the group aren't going well then may be SOMETHING needs to be done to rescue things. I don't think trying to kill the party off is the way forward at all (unless as snowlynx says it's agreed OOC), but maybe suggesting a reset or something else. The only case I have ever heard of where PKs enhanced the story was when a large band/guild of adventurers, who were the combined characters of myself and several of my friends (maybe 2-5 characters per player in the group (though we only ever played 1 character at a time during any session)) over several years (this was back in Ad&d), had a mystery assasin that kept bumping off members of the group. We all lost characters to this assasin and had many adventures putting the puzzle together. We all agreed OOC with the DM that a few of our characters would die and we of course assumed that the killer was some NPC that the DM came up with. It turned out to be a PC within the group (the player who controlled him even killed off one of his own characters). In real time it took about 6 months to work out what was going on, and the player stayed quiet the whole time. It actually worked very well and gave us a watershed to start up a whole new era of gaming. The Man From Uncle has summed everything up nicely as usual, Ill only add one thing (well ill butcher the language trying to add one thing :D ) Killing party memebers is perfectly accebtable as long as the other party members are mature enough to deal with it, if they aren't then its pretty much a no fly zone, especially for no other reason than being bored. Oh, and by mature enough, I mean that they realize its a game and it wont ruin the players overall enjoyment of the game.
amethal 06-06-05, 08:00 AM	Is it morally right to do so? Is it okay if it's in character? What do the circumstances need to be?Shouldn't this thread be entitled killing other characters ? If killing another character is "in character" for your character, then it should be done. It is bad roleplaying not to. For example, if you're playing a bloodthirsty dwarf fighter who flies into a killing frenzy any time an opponent criticises his dress sense, and the fellow party members have seen this on many occasions, then you could be obliged to attack any of them who (was stupid enough to) insult you in that way. However, it can also completely ruin campaigns and friendships, so the trick is to design your character in such a way that you prefer not to kill your comrades, and are willing to cut them some considerable slack. If another character is driving this mild mannered paragon to consider murder, I strongly advise discussing it with your DM and the other player first. The other player can tone down how his character is acting, or one of the characters can leave the group.