kind of a party problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

kind of a party problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MikEye
01-23-07, 12:20 AM Alright. So its me (cleric saint cuthbert LN), a couple of fighters, a knight, a couple of rangers, a wizard or sorcerer(dont remember), half orc rogue, a druid, a bard, and another cleric (wee jas, negatively aligned LN) big group but most of these people i think will drop anyway

To make a long story short, we discover an orcish cleric was praying to gruumsh to poison the water supply flowing from this mine to a human settlement nearby, in revenge for wiping out his clan (though the orcs attacked the humans in raid parties first) People were dying in the towns

The half orc claims the party was a group of slaves as a gift to him. He thanks our rogue and tells him to leave, because he does not know if he is a test sent from gruumsh.

The wizard/sorcerer charms the orc, and we get info out of him, learning the story.

As a cleric that worships the God of retribution, I am obligated to kill the orc.

But the problem is, since the orc is in my party, it would be wrong of me to attack him. This annoying pest of a ranger said he would aim his arrow at me, like his is extremely intimidating. that is beside the point.

Is it ok to kill an evil creature kill large amounts of humans by poisoning the water supply, even though technicaly through a charm spell he is my ally?

Or is this just an act of bad RP from people like the ranger in my party?

I figured if they were half way decent, they would see the power of my diety a little. earlier i killed 4 undead in a turn undead attempt. I figured if the chars were played by good RPers, they would be in awe at the power a little bit... the half orc was at least :P

Iunno, just a little frustrated at today's session. thoughts?
Yokomohoyo
01-23-07, 02:14 AM Honestly I think you should go for it... After all you know he is doing something evil and should be punnished... Or since he is charmed you could wait untill the charm effect wares off and see what his reaction is, if he goes hostile then all is fair.
danielinthewolvesden
01-23-07, 03:30 AM Sit down with the DM and that player and talk about this. I think the DM is making a mistake in allowing Evils, esp in a party that big.

But anyway, before any PKing is done, the players and DM should discuss it.
Boshi
01-23-07, 03:44 AM Daaaaaaaaaaaamn 10+ people? How is that even playable?
Yokomohoyo
01-23-07, 03:55 AM Daaaaaaaaaaaamn 10+ people? How is that even playable?

DM your party encounters a band of Goblinoid raiders consisting of 16 goblins 4 Hobgoblins.

Roll: 16+4 spot check

DM: You hear one of the goblins scream out a warnning thus drawing the attention of all the band towards your location. What do you do
(to shorten the ammount of time I granted the party of 10 the initiative)

Round 1:
Player 1: I attack
Player 2: "......."
Player 3: I wait
Player 4: I hide
Player 5: I shoot magic missles
Player 6: I cast mage armor
Player 7: I run around to flank
Player 8: I sing a song.
Player 9: I turn into a bear
Player 10: Zzzz...

:OMG! - I couldn't play that way...
The_Ditto
01-23-07, 08:45 AM This annoying pest of a ranger said he would aim his arrow at me, like his is extremely intimidating. that is beside the point.

Gee, sounds like the ranger is in league with the orcs ... might have to dish out some retribution on him as well if he's dumb enough to strike out at you .. :tiphat:

Gak the orc ... it's your duty!! :D
Tiefling_Warlock
01-23-07, 08:57 AM I say that you try to explain to them (In character without the orc around) that the spell is gonna wear off, so you have to kill it. If he says no, with for it to wear off. Then see reaction.
Nimbus
01-23-07, 09:23 AM Ah the burning plague. My favorite scenario.

You are a first or second level party at the most. The charm person spell on the orc should only last about an hour or so. As a cleric of Cuthbert it is indeed your duty to seek retribution for the orcs actions, though you can also understand that he was, in his own way, seeking retribution for the deaths of his people.

Paladins aren't the only class that can be tested.
roland_sos
01-23-07, 09:31 AM Why not just challenge the orc to a one on one mano a mano duel? The ranger should be able to respect that. It is fair and either way you tried.
MikEye
01-23-07, 09:38 AM Indeed this was a level one and two campaign, I was level 2 at the time. The reason it got so large was because the person at the game store in which we play actualy advertised this, and there was a huge turnout. Most of these people have not returned the following week, the party is about 6 or 7 people now. Mostly mature players.

The orc wasn't hostile when he came out of charm. The ranger threw a hissy fit and tried to shoot me, but intimidate worked on him :P
2nd Ed Paladin
01-23-07, 03:39 PM Generally, social skills can't be used on PCs (diplomacy, intimidate etc.) to influence their actions. Now if you meant you RPed that you intimidated him that wouold be ok.
Krusk
01-23-07, 04:21 PM You could always see it like this

"ok i wont kill the orc now, but if this turns out bad, with the orc attacking us, it is simply retribution for you stopping me from killing him. "

basically when the orc attacks you guys, you see it as retribution on the ranger from your god for not following through what should have been done.
kelvinaw273
01-23-07, 04:32 PM Is it ok to kill an evil creature kill large amounts of humans by poisoning the water supply, even though technicaly through a charm spell he is my ally?

Or is this just an act of bad RP from people like the ranger in my party?

I figured if they were half way decent, they would see the power of my diety a little. earlier i killed 4 undead in a turn undead attempt. I figured if the chars were played by good RPers, they would be in awe at the power a little bit... the half orc was at least :P

Iunno, just a little frustrated at today's session. thoughts?

If you feel bad about it, kill him after the charm wears off.
DarkNick
01-23-07, 05:04 PM I think good and evil should not be considered as part of your decision. You are a lawful neutral character and you should judge it by the rules of your faith. One solution might be to take the orc to the towns folk or your church elders for a trial.

I figure if you were a good roleplayer you would see that your party does not have to agree with you. They are not required to respect you either no matter how powerful you are. If you were fanatical about playing your character 'correctly' then would that character stay with a party member that threatened to kill him? I don't think so.

Just some things to consider. The orc is not your ally. He was charmed by the wizard and therfore has no reason to be friendly towards you. He is not part of the party and at best would be considered the charmed lacky of one player. You are not required to treat him as a party member. Discuss your view with the group, see what they want to do. If you don't agree then argue your view. Just remember that things don't always have to go your way.

Personally I would view it this way. You are on the side of the humans who were at war with the orcs. This orc killed lots of the villagers on your side. It is an enemy. It is also only an orc and not even worth consideration. Just get it over with and kill it "round off the sharp corners".
MikEye
01-23-07, 09:05 PM yeah man that was what i was thinking. The ranger later left me after our goal was finished, thats why I put up with him... to finish the orc.

As far as intimidate I didnt mean the skill, but more like an attempt to intimidate him that worked. I was level, two, he was level one, (not that it matters completely) but I convinced him that I would own him.

And about the fact that the orc is evil does not matter, it kinda doesnt, but it does not help him either. Kind of like the diety, he favors good, though he is not good himself. his clerics cannot be evil. same concept I am getting that, I favor good creatures over evil ones, ya know?
hmmmm
01-23-07, 09:53 PM Shoot first, explain later.

Bust in the orcs head at night and tell them why he is dead in the morning.
pmurray@bigpond.com
01-23-07, 10:15 PM The correct thing to do is to deliver this Orc to the appropriate authorities for trial. This applies whether or not the orc is in your party. If any of the party refuses, then they are attempting to undermine the correct operation of law.

But it is not for you to take retribution except in unusual circumstances (in fair battle, or too far from civilisation etc).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MikEye 01-23-07, 12:20 AM	Alright. So its me (cleric saint cuthbert LN), a couple of fighters, a knight, a couple of rangers, a wizard or sorcerer(dont remember), half orc rogue, a druid, a bard, and another cleric (wee jas, negatively aligned LN) big group but most of these people i think will drop anyway To make a long story short, we discover an orcish cleric was praying to gruumsh to poison the water supply flowing from this mine to a human settlement nearby, in revenge for wiping out his clan (though the orcs attacked the humans in raid parties first) People were dying in the towns The half orc claims the party was a group of slaves as a gift to him. He thanks our rogue and tells him to leave, because he does not know if he is a test sent from gruumsh. The wizard/sorcerer charms the orc, and we get info out of him, learning the story. As a cleric that worships the God of retribution, I am obligated to kill the orc. But the problem is, since the orc is in my party, it would be wrong of me to attack him. This annoying pest of a ranger said he would aim his arrow at me, like his is extremely intimidating. that is beside the point. Is it ok to kill an evil creature kill large amounts of humans by poisoning the water supply, even though technicaly through a charm spell he is my ally? Or is this just an act of bad RP from people like the ranger in my party? I figured if they were half way decent, they would see the power of my diety a little. earlier i killed 4 undead in a turn undead attempt. I figured if the chars were played by good RPers, they would be in awe at the power a little bit... the half orc was at least :P Iunno, just a little frustrated at today's session. thoughts?
Yokomohoyo 01-23-07, 02:14 AM	Honestly I think you should go for it... After all you know he is doing something evil and should be punnished... Or since he is charmed you could wait untill the charm effect wares off and see what his reaction is, if he goes hostile then all is fair.
danielinthewolvesden 01-23-07, 03:30 AM	Sit down with the DM and that player and talk about this. I think the DM is making a mistake in allowing Evils, esp in a party that big. But anyway, before any PKing is done, the players and DM should discuss it.
Boshi 01-23-07, 03:44 AM	Daaaaaaaaaaaamn 10+ people? How is that even playable?
Yokomohoyo 01-23-07, 03:55 AM	Daaaaaaaaaaaamn 10+ people? How is that even playable? DM your party encounters a band of Goblinoid raiders consisting of 16 goblins 4 Hobgoblins. Roll: 16+4 spot check DM: You hear one of the goblins scream out a warnning thus drawing the attention of all the band towards your location. What do you do (to shorten the ammount of time I granted the party of 10 the initiative) Round 1: Player 1: I attack Player 2: "......." Player 3: I wait Player 4: I hide Player 5: I shoot magic missles Player 6: I cast mage armor Player 7: I run around to flank Player 8: I sing a song. Player 9: I turn into a bear Player 10: Zzzz... :OMG! - I couldn't play that way...
The_Ditto 01-23-07, 08:45 AM	This annoying pest of a ranger said he would aim his arrow at me, like his is extremely intimidating. that is beside the point. Gee, sounds like the ranger is in league with the orcs ... might have to dish out some retribution on him as well if he's dumb enough to strike out at you .. :tiphat: Gak the orc ... it's your duty!! :D
Tiefling_Warlock 01-23-07, 08:57 AM	I say that you try to explain to them (In character without the orc around) that the spell is gonna wear off, so you have to kill it. If he says no, with for it to wear off. Then see reaction.
Nimbus 01-23-07, 09:23 AM	Ah the burning plague. My favorite scenario. You are a first or second level party at the most. The charm person spell on the orc should only last about an hour or so. As a cleric of Cuthbert it is indeed your duty to seek retribution for the orcs actions, though you can also understand that he was, in his own way, seeking retribution for the deaths of his people. Paladins aren't the only class that can be tested.
roland_sos 01-23-07, 09:31 AM	Why not just challenge the orc to a one on one mano a mano duel? The ranger should be able to respect that. It is fair and either way you tried.
MikEye 01-23-07, 09:38 AM	Indeed this was a level one and two campaign, I was level 2 at the time. The reason it got so large was because the person at the game store in which we play actualy advertised this, and there was a huge turnout. Most of these people have not returned the following week, the party is about 6 or 7 people now. Mostly mature players. The orc wasn't hostile when he came out of charm. The ranger threw a hissy fit and tried to shoot me, but intimidate worked on him :P
2nd Ed Paladin 01-23-07, 03:39 PM	Generally, social skills can't be used on PCs (diplomacy, intimidate etc.) to influence their actions. Now if you meant you RPed that you intimidated him that wouold be ok.
Krusk 01-23-07, 04:21 PM	You could always see it like this "ok i wont kill the orc now, but if this turns out bad, with the orc attacking us, it is simply retribution for you stopping me from killing him. " basically when the orc attacks you guys, you see it as retribution on the ranger from your god for not following through what should have been done.
kelvinaw273 01-23-07, 04:32 PM	Is it ok to kill an evil creature kill large amounts of humans by poisoning the water supply, even though technicaly through a charm spell he is my ally? Or is this just an act of bad RP from people like the ranger in my party? I figured if they were half way decent, they would see the power of my diety a little. earlier i killed 4 undead in a turn undead attempt. I figured if the chars were played by good RPers, they would be in awe at the power a little bit... the half orc was at least :P Iunno, just a little frustrated at today's session. thoughts? If you feel bad about it, kill him after the charm wears off.
DarkNick 01-23-07, 05:04 PM	I think good and evil should not be considered as part of your decision. You are a lawful neutral character and you should judge it by the rules of your faith. One solution might be to take the orc to the towns folk or your church elders for a trial. I figure if you were a good roleplayer you would see that your party does not have to agree with you. They are not required to respect you either no matter how powerful you are. If you were fanatical about playing your character 'correctly' then would that character stay with a party member that threatened to kill him? I don't think so. Just some things to consider. The orc is not your ally. He was charmed by the wizard and therfore has no reason to be friendly towards you. He is not part of the party and at best would be considered the charmed lacky of one player. You are not required to treat him as a party member. Discuss your view with the group, see what they want to do. If you don't agree then argue your view. Just remember that things don't always have to go your way. Personally I would view it this way. You are on the side of the humans who were at war with the orcs. This orc killed lots of the villagers on your side. It is an enemy. It is also only an orc and not even worth consideration. Just get it over with and kill it "round off the sharp corners".
MikEye 01-23-07, 09:05 PM	yeah man that was what i was thinking. The ranger later left me after our goal was finished, thats why I put up with him... to finish the orc. As far as intimidate I didnt mean the skill, but more like an attempt to intimidate him that worked. I was level, two, he was level one, (not that it matters completely) but I convinced him that I would own him. And about the fact that the orc is evil does not matter, it kinda doesnt, but it does not help him either. Kind of like the diety, he favors good, though he is not good himself. his clerics cannot be evil. same concept I am getting that, I favor good creatures over evil ones, ya know?
hmmmm 01-23-07, 09:53 PM	Shoot first, explain later. Bust in the orcs head at night and tell them why he is dead in the morning.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-23-07, 10:15 PM	The correct thing to do is to deliver this Orc to the appropriate authorities for trial. This applies whether or not the orc is in your party. If any of the party refuses, then they are attempting to undermine the correct operation of law. But it is not for you to take retribution except in unusual circumstances (in fair battle, or too far from civilisation etc).