Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Greasyher0 12-10-07, 03:38 PM	I rolled out some good states. Pretty fair at least. I want to play a Knight from PHB2. The stats I get to work with are 16, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8. We got to round up to the close even number. He will be level 12 so I have not haded the bonus points for leveling. I am not sure if I want to knight all the way. I am looking into prestige classes to see if it is worth it. What I am thinking: STR 16 CON 16 DEX 12 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14 I have no idea on what feats to get. But I am staying away from mounts. Do you guys have any ideas to buff up this Knight? Do you know any goo prestige class or even if it is worth taking one? Do you agree with my stat set up? You input will help. Every encounter is a challange with this DM... Every! Thanks, Greasy
Zanrei 12-10-07, 09:24 PM	Stat placement seems good, though you may not need the Dex, as you should be wearing heavy armor by now. Sorry, but I don't know of many PrC's for a knight, I like 'em pure, but ToB might have some nice choices As you aren't using mounts, the choices for your two Knight Bonus Feats would be Endurance, Diehard, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, and Quick Draw. Both your saves will be at 7, so I would suggest Endurance/Diehard, fits the theme of a knight well. From there, Combat Expertise and the Improved version are good. These turn you into a wall. Invest in some Addy Full Plate and Armor Specialization(Heavy) to get a nice DR 5/- Stir in Weapon Foci/ Shield Spec/ Combat feats to taste.
Krusk 12-10-07, 09:34 PM	Stat placement seems good, though you may not need the Dex, as you should be wearing heavy armor by now. Sorry, but I don't know of many PrC's for a knight, I like 'em pure, but ToB might have some nice choices Invest in some Addy Full Plate and Armor Specialization(Heavy) to get a nice DR 5/- You should keep the dex, as full plate by itself has +1 max dex, 12 dex is perfect for full plate. You might even cosider getting an item to boost it if you buy mithril full plate. i also like straight knight, its got fun abilities all the way through. armor specialization does not stack with adamantium, so i wouldnt do that, you will just end up with dr3 and dr 2. I like shield specialization, armor optimization and greater. Any feats to up your AC are good ideas, as most intelligent foes will have to fight you. For your knight bonus feats, check out iron will, and the save increasers. At level 19 or so you dont fail saves on a 1, so you want them as high as possible to a point where you dont have to roll. You probably are not going to be dealing amazing damage but you should be hard to kill.
nightwyrm 12-10-07, 11:26 PM	If you're taking shield specialization, you might want to consider shield ward as well. It adds your shield bonus to your touch AC and some other stuff.
Cartigan 12-10-07, 11:28 PM	Player's Handbook II ahas some fun shield feats.
Krusk 12-11-07, 12:30 AM	If you're taking shield specialization, you might want to consider shield ward as well. It adds your shield bonus to your touch AC and some other stuff. shield ward is a fun feat
Greasyher0 12-11-07, 08:26 AM	Thanks everyone. Basically, your all recommending stuff that will up my AC even more. Or add DR. Will do.
Cifer 12-11-07, 09:28 AM	Thanks everyone. Basically, your all recommending stuff that will up my AC even more. Or add DR. Will do. I wouldn't reccommend that, for a simple reason: If enemies notice you're hard to hit, but don't deal much damage (which, lacking proper feats, you won't do), they'll try to ignore you and go for the squishies. The knight class excels at battlefield control, so use that. Get combat reflexes, a reach weapon (so you threaten and hinder movement at 10 ft), armor spikes (same for 5 ft) and an animated shield (so you have a shield bonus to AC despite wielding a twohanded weapon). While a spiked chain is generally good, I'd advise against it - it just doesn't really fit for a knight. Instead, use a guisarme. With it, you can trip your enemies so they can't get to your buddies when they want to.
BowenSilverclaw1986 12-11-07, 09:45 AM	Agreed. Guisarme and Armor Spikes, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise (get an Int boosting item), Improved Trip and Stand Still (XPH). Maybe get Endurance as a Knight bonus feat and pick Steadfast Determination (PH2) as a normal feat to boost you Will save, since Wis is your dump stat. Greetings, Bowen
Belkar 12-11-07, 11:25 AM	Sounds like most disagree with me here... But I think you should put your 16 STR into CHA. For a knight - you're a wall - not a striker. Your abilities are all modified by your CHA score... and it and your CON should be the two highest you have. Just a note... ;)
Cartigan 12-11-07, 12:23 PM	He makes a decent point. Switching Charisma and Strength scores would benefit you more than hurt you. You would get +1 to all your Charisma based abilities while only losing -1 to attack and damage.
ObscureInfo 12-11-07, 04:12 PM	I rolled out some good states. Pretty fair at least. I want to play a Knight from PHB2. The stats I get to work with are 16, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8. We got to round up to the close even number. He will be level 12 so I have not haded the bonus points for leveling. I am not sure if I want to knight all the way. I am looking into prestige classes to see if it is worth it. Thank you, Thank you, THank you!!!! :w00t: RANT: Finally, somebody asks for help with a "real character" with real stats. Too often, I have seen many people asking for help in building their UBER-character with three(or more) natural 18s. "I rolled them all last night." B.S, you did. Give me a break. What do you need help with, where to put your super stats? The probability of rolling even one 18 is small, but two or more is absolutely tiny. In rolling up over 200 characters over the years, I have only rolled two 18s a couple of times. And that is even rolling until I get an 18 and starting my stats there. :D Even if you actually DID manage this feat of dice skill (or dumb luck), it is incredibly bad form to post them on the boards and claim to need help. My advice: if you rolled more than one 18, keep it to yourself. If you need help, ask for it in general terms. ("I am building a ranger, what's more important, dextrity or wisdom?" or "need help with my sorcerer in a challenging game") Don't post your stats, you are just asking for abuse. It looks like you are bragging about your character. You may not be, but that's what it looks like. I know I am not the only player here who :rolleyes: everytime he/she reads a thread like that. Whew!! End Rant: Sorry, can't help you. Never played a knight. Like paladins, the class needs too many abilites to be played well. (Str, Con, Wis, Cha) I usually go with heavy armored fighters.
Zanrei 12-11-07, 04:40 PM	I wouldn't reccommend that, for a simple reason: If enemies notice you're hard to hit, but don't deal much damage (which, lacking proper feats, you won't do), they'll try to ignore you and go for the squishies. The knight class excels at battlefield control, so use that. Get combat reflexes, a reach weapon (so you threaten and hinder movement at 10 ft), armor spikes (same for 5 ft) and an animated shield (so you have a shield bonus to AC despite wielding a twohanded weapon). While a spiked chain is generally good, I'd advise against it - it just doesn't really fit for a knight. Instead, use a guisarme. With it, you can trip your enemies so they can't get to your buddies when they want to. True, they would normally ignore you. Which is what Fighting Challenge, Test of Mettle, and Daunting Challenge are for. Respectively they improve your combat against all enemies and, more importantly, make all enemies within 100 feet attack you on a failed will save (DC 19 with 16 CHA), and those within 100 feet get shaken, same save. All a total of 9/day. This is the power of the knight. Add in some of the 5 Virtues from the MIC, and oh shat, that's a good knight right there. And while WIS is his dump stat, Knights have a good will save.
Cifer 12-11-07, 06:05 PM	@Zanrei I'd like to see you try that against undead or other creatures immune against morale effects and mindaffecting stuff. Heck, everything with int 4 and lower is immune against it.
Everdreaming 12-11-07, 06:40 PM	@Zanrei I'd like to see you try that against undead or other creatures immune against morale effects and mindaffecting stuff. Heck, everything with int 4 and lower is immune against it. Animals aren't immune to mind-affecting effects. However, anything that is mindless will just attack the nearest thing anyways, so he has no problems there.
Cifer 12-11-07, 07:23 PM	Animals aren't immune to mind-affecting effects. You might want to have a look at the abilities again: they all specify they don't work against creatures without a language or without at least 5 points of int. Further, while mindless creatures often attack the nearest targets, animals will usually go for the weakest (think lion pack chasing herd) and undead and constructs may be controlled (usually by creatures who do have good will saves and will realise when the knight poses no problem).
Zanrei 12-11-07, 10:48 PM	@Zanrei I'd like to see you try that against undead or other creatures immune against morale effects and mindaffecting stuff. Heck, everything with int 4 and lower is immune against it. Well first off, a knight's place to me is on a battlefield, against human-ish opponents, defending against hordes of orcs/gobbos/what have you. The Knight's Code says nothing about whether or not it applies to mindless creatures. I may be wrong, but it wouldn't seem to me like knights wouldn't have many compunctions about killing animals helpless/flanked/whatever. The same would possibly go for many constructs. And Undead? That's someone else's job. It starts with 'C' and ends with 'leric'
Delfedd 12-12-07, 07:56 AM	If you go Knight, I would definately take a look at marshal from the Miniatures Handbook. The Marshal is similar to the knight, but not as good at fighting. However, he is much better at inspiring and such. They are very synergistic.
Orchomenos 12-12-07, 08:11 AM	If you boost your Charisma, take a look at taking two paladin levels. You get a +3 Base Fortitude Save, and you add your charisma bonus on all saves.
Cifer 12-12-07, 10:09 AM	Well first off, a knight's place to me is on a battlefield, against human-ish opponents, defending against hordes of orcs/gobbos/what have you. The Knight's Code says nothing about whether or not it applies to mindless creatures. I may be wrong, but it wouldn't seem to me like knights wouldn't have many compunctions about killing animals helpless/flanked/whatever. The same would possibly go for many constructs. And Undead? That's someone else's job. It starts with 'C' and ends with 'leric' "That's not my job" isn't exactly the answer I'd like to hear from the dedicated group protector as soon as we're up against non-sapient monsters which often make up at least half the opponents a group ever faces. As for the code, it makes no exception against any kind of creatures, possibly because a lot of the abilities of the knight essentially stem from an overblown ego - he cares about defeating monsters relatively fairly, not the monsters.
GoBackToRussia 12-12-07, 12:22 PM	There's a lot of good advice here - having seen one played (by an admittedly dumb player), I'd max up your AC cos you're going to be the party member who get's hit the most - and you generally can't attack first remember due to your 'code' (there's no point having improved init for example). A few levels of fighter are going to help with the combat feats too as would a cloak of charisma with your abilities. Remember your job is to single out the toughest guy to protect your mates while they deal with his minions!!! (the party member in my campaign kept forgetting about not being able to hit flat footed opponents and resulted in using up his challenges before he needed them)
Cartigan 12-12-07, 12:27 PM	and you generally can't attack first remember due to your 'code' (there's no point having improved init for example). Does anyone use "you're flat-footed if you havn't gone yet?" That sounds ridiculous unless you are surprised. I guess the idea is that you havn't had time to arm yourself yet, but still.
Belkar 12-12-07, 12:43 PM	Does anyone use "you're flat-footed if you havn't gone yet?" That sounds ridiculous unless you are surprised. I guess the idea is that you havn't had time to arm yourself yet, but still. Them's the rules. This is why smart combat rogues take improved initiative and why uncanny dodge is da shizzle. However... If a knight gets first in initiative... but delays to go after his enemies - I wouldn't consider him flat footed. He's "acted" - even if his action was to delay.
WarColonel 12-12-07, 01:42 PM	Reach is awsome, since you gain abilities that make it difficult to move through your threatened area. And the guisarme is a great weapon for that. Heavy Armor Opt is another great feat, as well as the improved version. Ask your DM one thing. Fix the feats a knight gets. Mounted Combat is, IMO, a retarded idea for a bonus feat, as well as the specific feats they offer you as bonus ones. My DM ruled that you instead chose from the fighter bonus feats.
Cifer 12-12-07, 05:01 PM	Mounted Combat indeed sounds like a late "Oh, wait, didn't knights go around on horses? We'll have to mention it somewhere..." addition to the class. Without a special mount from somewhere (possibly leadership), it doesn't really do anything for the knight, not when most creatures can off the mount in a single strike...
metalmayhem80110 12-13-07, 04:12 AM	Mounted Combat indeed sounds like a late "Oh, wait, didn't knights go around on horses? We'll have to mention it somewhere..." addition to the class. Without a special mount from somewhere (possibly leadership), it doesn't really do anything for the knight, not when most creatures can off the mount in a single strike... Wow, I was thinking the same thing :P