Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aeosculap 05-13-04, 04:39 PM	Could really use some advice... Background info: Party of 5, 5th level PCs: Druid; Psion(Nomad)/Rogue; Wizard(Evoc); Rog/Sorc(Enchantment); Rog/Ftr(me). All are either neutral or evil. Story: While out on an assignment for our Patron (City Council Member / Professor at the School of Magic), we see a wanted poster for the head of King of this clan of Kobolds. The reward is very nice. So, we decided we were gonna sidetrek from 40 day assignment to earn a little extra cash. We bypass 5 traps (I think), intentionally set off 1, and fall for one last trap on the 350 or so yard approach to the entrance to their cave. We ended the session as we walked up to the entrance (having dispatched the guards). Problem: Our DM has been chuckling and implying that we're in deep lizard poo if we go into these caves. Actually, he's pretty much gloating at this point.:b: Resources: There's a city about 2 days hike south, a good size one with lots of supplies. We're carrying a fair bit of cash right now, as most of us are still saving up for our next major purchase. Our wizard has maxed her ranks in Knowledge (Monsters), and the druid has done the same in Wilderness Lore. My rogue's Search & Disable Device are maxed in ranks also. The sorcerer has a wand of color spray, and a wand of sleep. The Sorcerer is thinking that if we run into anything close to serious resistance, we turn around, go back to town, and pick up a couple scrolls of Protection from Arrows. The wizard is prepping lots of fireballs, lightning bolts, and web. I'm thinking that if we go back to town, I should grab a number of vials of alchemists fire and tanglefoot bags. Question: How the heck do you take out a lair full of Kobolds (without a TPK please)? :confused:
Lord Psynister 05-13-04, 04:43 PM	You've got a level 5 Evoker? Fireball, Lightningbolt, Burning Hands, Color Spray/Sleep, Magic Missle... Any spell you can think of that can hit more than one at a time should work.
VirgilCaine 05-13-04, 04:44 PM	Resources: There's a city about 2 days hike south, a good size one with lots of supplies. We're carrying a fair bit of cash right now, as most of us are still saving up for our next major purchase. Our wizard has maxed her ranks in Knowledge (Monsters), and the druid has done the same in Wilderness Lore. My rogue's Search & Disable Device are maxed in ranks also. The sorcerer has a wand of color spray, and a wand of sleep. The Sorcerer is thinking that if we run into anything close to serious resistance, we turn around, go back to town, and pick up a couple scrolls of Protection from Arrows. The wizard is prepping lots of fireballs, lightning bolts, and web. I'm thinking that if we go back to town, I should grab a number of vials of alchemists fire and tanglefoot bags. You have screwed up badly by not creating seperate paragraphs out of your huge ogre-sized one. Why not take the kobold down AFTER you have made your purchases? Even better, why not buy the alchemist fires and the tanglefoot bags BEFORE you got yourselves into this?
Sproik 05-13-04, 05:59 PM	Brick up the entrance?
CrimsonRyoko 05-13-04, 06:13 PM	If anyone manages to have cleave and great cleave, forget the pre reqs, just have them all mob him and he could take out like 1/2 of them in a round...... Other then that have the main warrior run in, with some sort of fire protection spell, you have to have atleast 1 with all the mages, GLOAT about how he will take them all on at once, have them mob him, and then fireball the area, quick efficient and little risk even without fire protection, even have your fighter ready an action to drink a potion of healing upon taking damage.
jafyfe 05-13-04, 06:39 PM	Originally posted by Sproik Brick up the entrance? The reward is for the head, not the presumed destruction of the king.
Sucineri 05-13-04, 06:46 PM	The reward is for the head, not the presumed destruction of the king. Exactly..so if they brick up the enterance and then put some boulders or something in front of the hole..and then a couple bushes to "hide" the evidence..then they can continue on their normal quest and then on the way back stop by to see if the kobolds are all dead from starvation or not..THEN complete that side quest! :)
Conaill 05-13-04, 07:21 PM	Bricking up the entrance... really bad idea. A decent kobold warren will have at least one other exit, and probably a second very well hidden one. Plus they'll likely have enough air left in the tunnels to dig themselves out anyway... If I were to design a kobold city, I would make sure that all tunnels are less than 5' wide and high, so standard size opponents will have movement penalties. (Only exception to that would be some rooms which are designed to catch all of you inside the same area effect spell.) This also means that they will be able to pick you off one by one as you crawl through the tunnels. Make sure to add in lots of murder holes to harry the intruders, traps that are designed to separate the party (could be as simple as collapsing part of a tunnel), etc. A well designed kobold stronghold could *easily* wipe out a 5th level party. Your most important party memebr will probably be the Druid, with spells such as Soften Earth and Stone, Meld into Stone, and Stone Shape). Burrowing Summoned creatures may be useful too. Large area effect spells such as Fireball may be useless in the narrow and winding tunnels. Make sure to stock up on Antitoxin and other ways to avoid poison... you're bound to encounter a *lot* of traps.
Tony Vargas 05-13-04, 07:49 PM	Keep in mind that kobolds can have levels in 3E - while you're prepping for the dungeon of weenie madness, the DM may be cackling over his 9th level sorcerer kobold king...
krichaiushii 05-13-04, 10:33 PM	Sorcerers are kobolds' favored class. Even a small handful of 1-3 level sorcerers (with different spells) can ruin your day. If one or two can cast 2d or 3d level spells, things get much worse. Anticipate lots of areas your medium-size PCs can't function in properly, and tactics designed to pit many kobolds against one PC. Tradition places dire weasels with kobolds, and the 3.x ruling of kobolds being draconic means that small dragons or half-dragons might be around. Poison and tanglefoot bags are to be considered as being used against you. The use of monstrous vermin to burn your resources while conserving kobold life might be expected as well. Anticipate wave attacks - you won't get enough time to rest up properly between encounters. Certainly not enough time to memorize spells. They might even have a plan to prevent intruders from leaving the way they entered. As kobolds are miners and tricksters, this could range from a collapsing ceiling - to be dug out later - to illusions of dead ends. Other plans likely include responding to alarms at different entrances - anticipate an active defense. Perhaps smoking out the kobolds could work. It would be difficult, but somewhat safer than entering the warrens.
Telas 05-15-04, 03:35 AM	"Knowing is half the battle." -GI Joe Find out what you can. If you go to the city (questionable, since then the Kobolds would probably know someone was snooping around and prepare for your return).... If you go to the city, do whatever it takes to find out about the kobold lair. Also, metagaming intel: Do you think the DM would go to the trouble to create a dungeon specifically to kill off the party? Or is he just having fun and trying to warn you not to go charging in? Telas
pres_man 05-15-04, 05:08 AM	Also a little metagaming kobolds with NPC levels are CR = NPC levels - 3. So a CR 6 kobold may really be a 9th level warrior. This can be pretty surprising to some players (hee hee, not that I'd do that to my players, not at all :D). You guys need lots of shield and amulets of shielding since kobolds favorite class is sorcerer (nothing like 20 kobolds firing 20 magic missiles).
Sproik 05-15-04, 11:33 AM	Originally posted by jafyfe The reward is for the head, not the presumed destruction of the king. Brick up the entrance and come back in a few months?
rmiller_nub 05-15-04, 03:37 PM	Uhm, you could also do some negotiation with the kobolds. Heck maybe you and the kobolds go take over the town :devil:
Vanigo 05-15-04, 07:04 PM	No, no, don't brick up the entrance. Flood the warren. Force them out of their hole, and all the horrible traps they doubtlessly have will be useless. Of course, if they have high level leaders, you're still screwed.
Aeosculap 05-17-04, 07:51 PM	Thank you all for your help and advice. Some of you called it pretty dang close. Especially Lord Psynister, CrimsonRyoko, Conaill, Tony Vargas, krichaiushii, and rmiller_nub. We did a U-turn, and ran back to town for some supplies (tanglefoot bags, alchemists fire, antitoxin, scrolls of Protection from Arrows, and a pair of Goggles of Minute Seeing). Some adventurers did go in ahead of us, but were slaughtered by one particularly nasty hallway of traps (some destroyed treasure, and lost XP for us). Lots of traps, especially in 5 ft wide bottlenecks, corners, and in one case, 6 consecutive squares of Alarm'd floorplates (in the hall leading to King's chamber). Dire Weasels. Kobolds ringing the walls of large chambers we had to enter through 5ft wide corridors, all with crossbows. The King was a 9th level cleric, had two 6th level sorcerers as lackeys, and a couple pet Dire Weasels. We took him, but barely, we had 3 deaths. Only thing that saved us that fight was the Wizard's wand of summon monster, dropping them where the rogues could flank. That and the Druid's pet mountain lion being very lucky in his hits. Again, Thank you all for your suggestions. It'd take too long to relate the entire tale right now, but I passed on some of y'alls suggestions to my groupmates, and I'm sure some of those turned the tide for us in the long run. (Example: DM glared at us when the Druid ran into a room we'd figured out was very large, wearing Protection from Arrows and Protection from Elements: Fire. He positioned himself in view of the Wizard from in the hall, but within range of the greatest number of Kobolds, and signaled her. She dropped the fireball on him, and every single Kobold in range failed his save. :D ).
Telas 05-18-04, 01:21 AM	Sounds like an epic in the making. I'm glad the ideas worked :), even if they weren't mine.... :( We had a nasty run through in a graveyard once, and lost so many levels and party members that we ended up making negative treasure after paying for the resurrections and restorations.... :nonono: Telas
eudas 05-18-04, 06:07 PM	We expect the whole story up on the Once Upon A Time boards in a week or so. :) Consider it an English paper writing project. ;) I mean, it's just one small adventure, right? ;) eudas