Kord be with me. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kord be with me. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
silencehowling
02-10-04, 05:55 AM I'm playing a Cleric of Kord. So I play him as one, Fight first Heal later if your to weak to Fight stay outa my way. Well my party says that not how you play a Cleric. Well I a Cleric of war, I think im doin fine. So whos rite, me or them.

PS. No one has died yet cause of not being Healed.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-10-04, 07:55 AM You're right. There's no "right" way to play a cleric. As a cleric of Kord, you are nearly required to wade into melee and drop the greatsword (literally) on Kord's enemies.

If your party wants healing, they should invest in potions of Cure Serious Wounds. If they want buffs, they should ask you nicely and, if you have a spare slot and a spare moment, maybe you'll buff them.

What's happening is that your group is falling into the stereotypical mindset that a cleric is not an independant character; he's a walking bandaid, dang it, and he'd better heal/buff me when I need it, because that's what he's there for! That's incorrect and false. Having said that, however, healing your party will make you more effective for Kord's cause than you tanking all the time and letting them die. As a result, Kord would probably be okay with you spending some of the power he grants you on keeping them alive. After all, two powerful fighters (fighter and cleric) are more likely to defeat Kord's enemies than one (the cleric) is; the same is true with the rogue/sorceror/ranger/etc.
Nom
02-10-04, 10:11 AM One of my PCs is similar. His char wants to kill bad guys; there's a reason he usually prepares passive spells like Burning Hands, Spiritual Weapon and Hold Person (Fire/War domains, in case you're wondering). This is also why he took the Brew Potion feat: "heal yourself, I've got Evil to kill".

You might need to do a little "fighter education". Point out that you're a front line combatant, using magic to make up for the slightly lower HP and fewer feats. When they're injured in combat, they can fall back and use potions. Meanwhile, you'll beat up on the bad guys for them and hold the line; that's how your cleric helps.
Millennium
02-10-04, 10:34 AM As a cleric of a war deity, you're doing just fine. Healing is for after the fight, except in cases of dire emergency.

Like Nom suggested, you might want to take Brew Potion and make a few healing potions for the rest of the party. That might shut them up.
Glak
02-11-04, 07:26 PM it would have been considerate if you had warned them during character creation. They might have their characters designed with the assumption that you would do more healing during battle, or maybe there would be a second cleric in the party to help heal. So you're playing your guy right, you were just rude during character creation.

"If your party wants healing, they should invest in potions of Cure Serious Wounds"

front line guys shouldn't have to pay to live, or no one will ever play one.
Jagyr Ebonwood
02-11-04, 08:44 PM On topic: I think that you're playing a cleric of Kord correctly, especially since there is no "right way" to play any class. I'd say that "fight first heal later" fits in well with Kord's philosophy. Although making some potions for your buds might calm their tempers.
NinjaHedge
02-11-04, 09:10 PM well, it depends on the play style of the group. If the other players are mostly interested in killing the monsters and grabbing the loot, playing a cleric as pure melee is not using it to its greatest potential. Clerics are most powerful in their healing and spell versitility. Also keep in mind that a cleric of any diety, even from an RP prespective, is going to cast a lot of spells, that's what makes them a cleric. Otherwise play a fighter who worships Kord.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-11-04, 09:21 PM Why do you have to spend a feat slot and gold and experience (i.e. craft potions) to make your groupmates happy? Why don't they spend some of their treasure to purchase some hp-restoring items?

"Because you're a cleric and that's what clerics do" isn't an acceptable answer. "Because I'm saving up for an uber-sword" isn't an acceptable answer either, although it's probably close to the truth.

Listen. That's what treasure is for. If they cry about it, maybe they haven't yet understood that adventuring is dangerous work and they'd better be able to stand on their own feet. What happens when you get taken out by a raging Troll barbarian? They'd better have their own sources of healing, that's the bottom line.
VirgilCaine
02-11-04, 09:28 PM I know for a fact that many of our posters are from countries outside the US. We all got what he meant.

I see the most bad spelling and the worst of it from people who don't list their location. This leads me to the conclusion via statistical probability that they are from America.

As for the topic at hand, there is no necessarily right or wrong way to play a cleric. The poster who said clerics of Kord are almost required to chainsaw into melee is pretty correct.
Nom
02-11-04, 10:23 PM Originally posted by NinjaHedge
Also keep in mind that a cleric of any diety, even from an RP prespective, is going to cast a lot of spells, that's what makes them a cleric. Otherwise play a fighter who worships Kord.Oh, agreed. But there's no reason they must be healing spells.

Fighter argument: Why should I stop swinging at the bad guys when you could heal me?

Cleric response: Why should I stop to heal you when I could hold person our main opponent?

(Or, if you want a walking chirurgeon, get a hireling)

BTW: Our party cleric is the generous sort, and makes the potions "at cost". There's nothing unreasonable about the party cleric charging 75% (or more) instead. Anyone complaining that this isn't being a "team player" needs to ask themselves what they're giving back in exchange for discount potions.
Ithilorien
02-11-04, 10:50 PM I think you're playing fine. It is good policy, however, to heal your companions when they need it (which it sounds like you're already doing), your party is only as strong as their weakest link, etc.
Balseraph
02-11-04, 10:52 PM I like the idea of a War-Priest.
Really like it. Clerics are lethal in close combat, buffing spells, decent HP, good Fort AND Will, 3/4 BAB, and full armor proficiency!

WOW! :cool:

As for being rude during character creation - I don't think it necessarily rude and/or inconsiderate. Your fellow players should most likely not be relying on you (or any other person for that matter) playing a character of a particular class.

Remember 1st edition? "I'll be the fighter", "I'll be the magic-user", "I'll be the Priest", "wha... I wasn't paying attention. Blast! I guess I'm the thief, then :(" ;)

I don't generally limit myself for the sake of "the party needs a cleric". Sometimes we work together to cover all our bases, sometimes we just play exactly what we want to play. This often means that we have no cleric, no rogue, no mage, etc... :)

Have a good one guys and gals!
Glak
02-11-04, 11:18 PM "Why do you have to spend a feat slot and gold and experience (i.e. craft potions) to make your groupmates happy? Why don't they spend some of their treasure to purchase some hp-restoring items?"

What are you talking about? Clerics do not have to spend gp or xp to heal their buddies. They just need to use a standard action and a spell slot.
Nimrud
02-11-04, 11:25 PM You are roleplaying a Kordite cleric fine. Pretty much out of the textbook, if you ask me. Kordite ethos emphasises individual feats of strength, including combat. A Kordite cleric is supposed to exemplify that, not go around healing others who aren't strong enough to go the full distance. Just because a Kordite cleric can heal doesn't mean that it is the cleric's mission to do so. Fight first, heal later is a perfectly acceptable approach for a Kordite warrior priest.

If your team mates can't handle the combat, then they should either pay for potions, or get out of harm's way when hps run low.
satyrgrrrrl
02-12-04, 12:41 AM Just to spice things up:

Originally posted by VirgilCaine
As for the topic at hand, there is no necessarily right or wrong way to play a cleric. The poster who said clerics of Kord are almost required to chainsaw into melee is pretty correct.

There is no right or wrong way to play a Cleric. You *could* play a healing-heavy Cleric of Kord. Someone has to keep the front-line up, and what better way to serve your Deity than to keep the *real* fighters alive. ;)

The other players are wrong, not by the way they think should be played, but by forcing their expectations of how a Cleric should be played onto you.

To be honest, however, I can hardly blame them. Spontaneous healing and protective spells (for PCs other than the Cleric) are the best reasons to *value* a Cleric in the party. Too often, I see "fighter" Clerics that are neither good (meaning adequate) fighters nor healers/protectors. Too many PCs have died in my presence (including mine) because a Cleric would rather fight than use his abilities and resources. It's like a Fighter saying that he's going to only use half of his Feats in this combat, and completely ignore the rest.

If your Cleric is like the ones I mentioned, the other players might have a right to complain, and maybe you should listen to them. If not, then just say they need to expand the way they see Clerics.

I'd suggest talking to them, out-of-character, to get their concerns. Don't take a "I'm right and you're wrong" stance, because neither side is absolutely right or wrong. It's a party game, and this is an issue of people working within the party. Be willing to make your character less "rigid" in his line of thinking (ie: You don't have to run up and kill everything in your path; followers of Kord may be warriors, but everyone benefits from prep time.), and ask that they do the same.

This could be a source of great conflict in a game, especially with an adversarial (right/wrong) attitude. If dealt with properly, however, it could bring a new way of thinking and adjusting to the group.

Hope that helps.

:angel:
silencehowling
02-12-04, 09:50 PM Thank you all it helps alot!!!
WizO_Catoblepas
02-14-04, 02:39 PM Ok let's knock off the spelling and name-calling or else I'm going to have to close the thread and send out some unpleasant e-mails. Also remember that bypassing the vulgar language filter is against the Code of Conduct. Keep your posts to the subject matter of the thread, not each other. Thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
silencehowling 02-10-04, 05:55 AM	I'm playing a Cleric of Kord. So I play him as one, Fight first Heal later if your to weak to Fight stay outa my way. Well my party says that not how you play a Cleric. Well I a Cleric of war, I think im doin fine. So whos rite, me or them. PS. No one has died yet cause of not being Healed.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-10-04, 07:55 AM	You're right. There's no "right" way to play a cleric. As a cleric of Kord, you are nearly required to wade into melee and drop the greatsword (literally) on Kord's enemies. If your party wants healing, they should invest in potions of Cure Serious Wounds. If they want buffs, they should ask you nicely and, if you have a spare slot and a spare moment, maybe you'll buff them. What's happening is that your group is falling into the stereotypical mindset that a cleric is not an independant character; he's a walking bandaid, dang it, and he'd better heal/buff me when I need it, because that's what he's there for! That's incorrect and false. Having said that, however, healing your party will make you more effective for Kord's cause than you tanking all the time and letting them die. As a result, Kord would probably be okay with you spending some of the power he grants you on keeping them alive. After all, two powerful fighters (fighter and cleric) are more likely to defeat Kord's enemies than one (the cleric) is; the same is true with the rogue/sorceror/ranger/etc.
Nom 02-10-04, 10:11 AM	One of my PCs is similar. His char wants to kill bad guys; there's a reason he usually prepares passive spells like Burning Hands, Spiritual Weapon and Hold Person (Fire/War domains, in case you're wondering). This is also why he took the Brew Potion feat: "heal yourself, I've got Evil to kill". You might need to do a little "fighter education". Point out that you're a front line combatant, using magic to make up for the slightly lower HP and fewer feats. When they're injured in combat, they can fall back and use potions. Meanwhile, you'll beat up on the bad guys for them and hold the line; that's how your cleric helps.
Millennium 02-10-04, 10:34 AM	As a cleric of a war deity, you're doing just fine. Healing is for after the fight, except in cases of dire emergency. Like Nom suggested, you might want to take Brew Potion and make a few healing potions for the rest of the party. That might shut them up.
Glak 02-11-04, 07:26 PM	it would have been considerate if you had warned them during character creation. They might have their characters designed with the assumption that you would do more healing during battle, or maybe there would be a second cleric in the party to help heal. So you're playing your guy right, you were just rude during character creation. "If your party wants healing, they should invest in potions of Cure Serious Wounds" front line guys shouldn't have to pay to live, or no one will ever play one.
Jagyr Ebonwood 02-11-04, 08:44 PM	On topic: I think that you're playing a cleric of Kord correctly, especially since there is no "right way" to play any class. I'd say that "fight first heal later" fits in well with Kord's philosophy. Although making some potions for your buds might calm their tempers.
NinjaHedge 02-11-04, 09:10 PM	well, it depends on the play style of the group. If the other players are mostly interested in killing the monsters and grabbing the loot, playing a cleric as pure melee is not using it to its greatest potential. Clerics are most powerful in their healing and spell versitility. Also keep in mind that a cleric of any diety, even from an RP prespective, is going to cast a lot of spells, that's what makes them a cleric. Otherwise play a fighter who worships Kord.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-11-04, 09:21 PM	Why do you have to spend a feat slot and gold and experience (i.e. craft potions) to make your groupmates happy? Why don't they spend some of their treasure to purchase some hp-restoring items? "Because you're a cleric and that's what clerics do" isn't an acceptable answer. "Because I'm saving up for an uber-sword" isn't an acceptable answer either, although it's probably close to the truth. Listen. That's what treasure is for. If they cry about it, maybe they haven't yet understood that adventuring is dangerous work and they'd better be able to stand on their own feet. What happens when you get taken out by a raging Troll barbarian? They'd better have their own sources of healing, that's the bottom line.
VirgilCaine 02-11-04, 09:28 PM	I know for a fact that many of our posters are from countries outside the US. We all got what he meant. I see the most bad spelling and the worst of it from people who don't list their location. This leads me to the conclusion via statistical probability that they are from America. As for the topic at hand, there is no necessarily right or wrong way to play a cleric. The poster who said clerics of Kord are almost required to chainsaw into melee is pretty correct.
Nom 02-11-04, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by NinjaHedge Also keep in mind that a cleric of any diety, even from an RP prespective, is going to cast a lot of spells, that's what makes them a cleric. Otherwise play a fighter who worships Kord.Oh, agreed. But there's no reason they must be healing spells. Fighter argument: Why should I stop swinging at the bad guys when you could heal me? Cleric response: Why should I stop to heal you when I could hold person our main opponent? (Or, if you want a walking chirurgeon, get a hireling) BTW: Our party cleric is the generous sort, and makes the potions "at cost". There's nothing unreasonable about the party cleric charging 75% (or more) instead. Anyone complaining that this isn't being a "team player" needs to ask themselves what they're giving back in exchange for discount potions.
Ithilorien 02-11-04, 10:50 PM	I think you're playing fine. It is good policy, however, to heal your companions when they need it (which it sounds like you're already doing), your party is only as strong as their weakest link, etc.
Balseraph 02-11-04, 10:52 PM	I like the idea of a War-Priest. Really like it. Clerics are lethal in close combat, buffing spells, decent HP, good Fort AND Will, 3/4 BAB, and full armor proficiency! WOW! :cool: As for being rude during character creation - I don't think it necessarily rude and/or inconsiderate. Your fellow players should most likely not be relying on you (or any other person for that matter) playing a character of a particular class. Remember 1st edition? "I'll be the fighter", "I'll be the magic-user", "I'll be the Priest", "wha... I wasn't paying attention. Blast! I guess I'm the thief, then :(" ;) I don't generally limit myself for the sake of "the party needs a cleric". Sometimes we work together to cover all our bases, sometimes we just play exactly what we want to play. This often means that we have no cleric, no rogue, no mage, etc... :) Have a good one guys and gals!
Glak 02-11-04, 11:18 PM	"Why do you have to spend a feat slot and gold and experience (i.e. craft potions) to make your groupmates happy? Why don't they spend some of their treasure to purchase some hp-restoring items?" What are you talking about? Clerics do not have to spend gp or xp to heal their buddies. They just need to use a standard action and a spell slot.
Nimrud 02-11-04, 11:25 PM	You are roleplaying a Kordite cleric fine. Pretty much out of the textbook, if you ask me. Kordite ethos emphasises individual feats of strength, including combat. A Kordite cleric is supposed to exemplify that, not go around healing others who aren't strong enough to go the full distance. Just because a Kordite cleric can heal doesn't mean that it is the cleric's mission to do so. Fight first, heal later is a perfectly acceptable approach for a Kordite warrior priest. If your team mates can't handle the combat, then they should either pay for potions, or get out of harm's way when hps run low.
satyrgrrrrl 02-12-04, 12:41 AM	Just to spice things up: Originally posted by VirgilCaine As for the topic at hand, there is no necessarily right or wrong way to play a cleric. The poster who said clerics of Kord are almost required to chainsaw into melee is pretty correct. There is no right or wrong way to play a Cleric. You could play a healing-heavy Cleric of Kord. Someone has to keep the front-line up, and what better way to serve your Deity than to keep the real fighters alive. ;) The other players are wrong, not by the way they think should be played, but by forcing their expectations of how a Cleric should be played onto you. To be honest, however, I can hardly blame them. Spontaneous healing and protective spells (for PCs other than the Cleric) are the best reasons to value a Cleric in the party. Too often, I see "fighter" Clerics that are neither good (meaning adequate) fighters nor healers/protectors. Too many PCs have died in my presence (including mine) because a Cleric would rather fight than use his abilities and resources. It's like a Fighter saying that he's going to only use half of his Feats in this combat, and completely ignore the rest. If your Cleric is like the ones I mentioned, the other players might have a right to complain, and maybe you should listen to them. If not, then just say they need to expand the way they see Clerics. I'd suggest talking to them, out-of-character, to get their concerns. Don't take a "I'm right and you're wrong" stance, because neither side is absolutely right or wrong. It's a party game, and this is an issue of people working within the party. Be willing to make your character less "rigid" in his line of thinking (ie: You don't have to run up and kill everything in your path; followers of Kord may be warriors, but everyone benefits from prep time.), and ask that they do the same. This could be a source of great conflict in a game, especially with an adversarial (right/wrong) attitude. If dealt with properly, however, it could bring a new way of thinking and adjusting to the group. Hope that helps. :angel:
silencehowling 02-12-04, 09:50 PM	Thank you all it helps alot!!!
WizO_Catoblepas 02-14-04, 02:39 PM	Ok let's knock off the spelling and name-calling or else I'm going to have to close the thread and send out some unpleasant e-mails. Also remember that bypassing the vulgar language filter is against the Code of Conduct. Keep your posts to the subject matter of the thread, not each other. Thanks.