Kuo-Toan Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kuo-Toan Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
vileguy
01-13-07, 04:48 AM Hi everyone! I'm about to start a campaign in 3.5 and will be playing a Kuo-Toan monk in a party starting at level 6. This is my first character of a monster race and I'm having some difficulty understanding all the rules and adjustments for making my class this way. From what I understand...

I receive +2 str, +2 con, +2int, +4wis, -2cha.

I start with 3d8 + 3xcon (8 + 1d8 for first 2 levels of kuo-toa) and have 2 levels of monstrous humanoid or Kuo-Toa as a class.

My first feat is taken for alertness and great fortitude which I start with.

I get to choose a feat at level 3 for my 1st level of monk as well as choose between stunning fist and improved grapple and receiving normal monk bonus feats.

I will have a base attack bonus of +2 at starting level 3.

I will have an ECL of 6, giving me the same experience gain and needs as generic level 6 characters.

From being Kuo-Toan I get +6 natural armor, +4 spot, +4 search, +8 swim, +8 escape artist, +4 knowledge/craft, the languages common, undercommon, aquan, and kuo-toan, 10 electrical resist, the abilities: lightning bolt (cleric only), adhesive, slippery, light blindness, keen sight, amphibious, immunity to poison and paralysis, and the option of running while swimming.

My class skills for point distribution are the usual monk ones in addition to knowledge (any?), craft (any?), escape artist, listen, move silently, search, spot, swim.

I have a bite attack at (attack - 5) for (1d4 + str) dmg.

I have speed 20ft on land, swim speed 50ft.

I start with a "Pincer Staff" which is a short spear with 10ft range that does 1d10 bludgeoning, may be thrown, and if successfully hits on melee can start a grapple without invoking attack of oppertunity.

Base Fort 4+con, Reflex 5+dex, and Will 5+wis.

----------------------------

That was a bit long but I think I covered it all. I'd appreciate any input especially if someone has build a Kuo-Toan character before. I'm also worried that I might be killed off easily with only 3 hit die, but that after gaining a few levels I should be able to pull my own weight. Thanks everyone.
Black Mantha
01-13-07, 07:38 AM Looks ok, but you made 2 small mistakes.
- You don't get a feat for being a level 1 monk, you get a feat for being a 3 HD character.
- You don't have to choose your skills exactly the same as the entry in the MM. You can distribute your skillpoints differently (and only the skillpoints for the first HD of monsterous humanoid are quadrupled). Everything in the MM is a class skill for you. In the same way, I think you can choose a different feat than Great Fortitude. Alertness, being a bonus feat, cannot be changed.
Demarest
01-13-07, 10:44 AM Blipdoolpoolp. LOL.
kelvinaw273
01-13-07, 03:34 PM I receive +2 str, +2 con, +2int, +4wis, -2cha.

I start with 3d8 + 3xcon (8 + 1d8 for first 2 levels of kuo-toa) and have 2 levels of monstrous humanoid or Kuo-Toa as a class.

Okey, I don't know the ECL for Kuo-toa, but 3 hit dice = 3 levels as monstrous humanoid, unless you are adding your first level as Monk in there. I am guessing Kuo-toa is ECL +3 at least.

My first feat is taken for alertness and great fortitude which I start with.

I get to choose a feat at level 3 for my 1st level of monk as well as choose between stunning fist and improved grapple and receiving normal monk bonus feats.

No, you don't. With 2 hit dice you don't get to level one monk until level 3 (which is ECL 6 if the modifier is +3). This isn't a feat-gaining level, you only get the feats available to a 3hd Kuo-toa. Then you gain a level of monk and gain the monk bonus feats only. Monster levels do not automatically gain feats as character levels do, I believe.

I will have a base attack bonus of +2 at starting level 3.

I will have an ECL of 6, giving me the same experience gain and needs as generic level 6 characters.

From being Kuo-Toan I get +6 natural armor, +4 spot, +4 search, +8 swim, +8 escape artist, +4 knowledge/craft, the languages common, undercommon, aquan, and kuo-toan, 10 electrical resist, the abilities: lightning bolt (cleric only), adhesive, slippery, light blindness, keen sight, amphibious, immunity to poison and paralysis, and the option of running while swimming.

My class skills for point distribution are the usual monk ones in addition to knowledge (any?), craft (any?), escape artist, listen, move silently, search, spot, swim.

I have a bite attack at (attack - 5) for (1d4 + str) dmg.

I have speed 20ft on land, swim speed 50ft.

I start with a "Pincer Staff" which is a short spear with 10ft range that does 1d10 bludgeoning, may be thrown, and if successfully hits on melee can start a grapple without invoking attack of oppertunity.

Base Fort 4+con, Reflex 5+dex, and Will 5+wis.

----------------------------

That was a bit long but I think I covered it all. I'd appreciate any input especially if someone has build a Kuo-Toan character before. I'm also worried that I might be killed off easily with only 3 hit die, but that after gaining a few levels I should be able to pull my own weight. Thanks everyone.

Yes, that is the problem with monster characters. On the other hand as a monk you have a dynamite AC and a lot of abilities to back yourself up with. You will need to fight clever, rather than hard, and stay out of hamrs way for a few levels. Eventually your boosted Con will help you claw back the hit points on your rivals in the party, but it will take time. Personally I think there are better ways of making a good monk, but if this works for you, do it.
Drohem
01-13-07, 05:30 PM Looks ok, but you made 2 small mistakes.
- You don't get a feat for being a level 1 monk, you get a feat for being a 3 HD character.
- You don't have to choose your skills exactly the same as the entry in the MM. You can distribute your skillpoints differently (and only the skillpoints for the first HD of monsterous humanoid are quadrupled). Everything in the MM is a class skill for you. In the same way, I think you can choose a different feat than Great Fortitude. Alertness, being a bonus feat, cannot be changed.

Black Mantha is correct.
vileguy
01-13-07, 06:31 PM Thanks for all the replies!

I understand that characters get feats at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. You say that I have to take alertness but not great fortitude? So my level 3 character (2hd from kuo-toa because that's what you are forced to take), 1 hd from monk, +3 level adjustment would be ECL6. My 3rd lvl, or 3rd hd, I get a bonus feat so I can take weapon finesse, and I get monk ac, flurry of blows, and my choice of stunning fist, but if I don't take great fortitude do I get to choose another feat as my hd1 feat?

As for skills with a +4 int modifier I approximated about 30 skill points for my first 2 levels, and 8 for monk 1 level. This is the equivalent of getting (2+int)x4 + (2+int) skill points for kuo-toa, and (4+int) for monk. And I assume that my class skills for every level will include the ones listed on the kuo-toa MM? Thanks for all the help I'm reassured now.
Drohem
01-13-07, 07:39 PM Thanks for all the replies!

I understand that characters get feats at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. You say that I have to take alertness but not great fortitude? So my level 3 character (2hd from kuo-toa because that's what you are forced to take), 1 hd from monk, +3 level adjustment would be ECL6. My 3rd lvl, or 3rd hd, I get a bonus feat so I can take weapon finesse, and I get monk ac, flurry of blows, and my choice of stunning fist, but if I don't take great fortitude do I get to choose another feat as my hd1 feat?

As for skills with a +4 int modifier I approximated about 30 skill points for my first 2 levels, and 8 for monk 1 level. This is the equivalent of getting (2+int)x4 + (2+int) skill points for kuo-toa, and (4+int) for monk. And I assume that my class skills for every level will include the ones listed on the kuo-toa MM? Thanks for all the help I'm reassured now.

Feats: Alertness is a bonus feat for the Kou-toa, and cannot be changed when you customize for a PC. See p. 7 "feats" of 3.5 MM. So, yes, you can pick another feat instead of Great Fortitude to customize your particular Kou-toan character, as long as you meet all prereqs. Also, you can take another feat, such as Weapon Finesse, as your 3rd Hit Die feat. In addition, you get all the abilities for a 1st level Monk as well.

Skills: The skills listed under Kou-toa are the class skills for your "monster levels" or "racial hit dice." They would be considered class skills if you took another level in Kou-toa monster class. So, if you are advancing as a Monk, they are considered cross-class skills. And vice-versa, if you advance as a Kou-toa monster level, then all your Monk class skills are considered cross-classed.

Skill Points: you are correct, you have a total of 38 skill points starting out (with a +4 Int modifier).

1st level Kou-toa = 24 skill points (2+4x4).
2nd level Kou-toa = 6 skill points (2+4).
1st level Monk = 8 skill points (4+4).

ECL: you are correct, your character has an ECL of 6th level.

So with an ECL of 6:
1. You gain experience as a 6th level character
2. Your starting equipment is equal to a 6th level character
3. You need 21,000 EXP to gain another class level
4. Right now you are considered 3rd level for gaining feats, ability increases, and skill ranks maximums.
5. For Hit Points you roll (2d8+8) + (Con modifier x 3)
6. Your Base Attack is +2 (+2 for Kou-toa monster levels and +0 for Monk level).
7. You are considered a medium Monsterous Humaniod (Aquatic) type.
8. You have a +6 Natural Armor Class.
9. Kou-toan favored class is Rouge.

Saves (Ref and Will are good):
Fort = +2 + Con modifier (+2 for Monk and +0 for Kou-toa racial hit dice)
Ref = +5 + Dex modifier (+2 for Monk and +3 for Kou-toa hit dice)
Will = +5 + Wis modifier (+2 for Monk and +3 for Kou-toa hit dice)

Land Speed = 20 ft. and Swim Speed = 50 ft.
Natural attack = bite for 1d4 + Str modifier at Base Attack Bonus -5

It's up to your DM if you can start with the Pincer Staff, since it says that Clerics and Fighters of 7th level or higher have these weapons.

You have the these special abilities:
Adhesive (Ex)
Amphibious (Ex)
Keen Sight (Ex)
Light Blindness (Ex)
Slippery (Ex)
+4 racial bonus to Spot and Search checks
+8 racial bonus to Escape Artist checks
+8 racial bonus to Swim checks, usually can just take a 10 on most Swim checks
Immunity to poison and paralysis
Electricity resistence/10

Class skills for Kou-Toan racial hit dice are (spend 30 skill points, then add racial bonuses and Ability modifiers):
Craft (any), Knowledge (any), Escape Artist, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, and Swim

Reach is 5 ft/5 ft

Starting Ability bonuses/penalties are:
Str +2, Dex +0, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha -2

hope that helps!

You were pretty much on the money with everything, except for a few tweaks, WTG!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
vileguy 01-13-07, 04:48 AM	Hi everyone! I'm about to start a campaign in 3.5 and will be playing a Kuo-Toan monk in a party starting at level 6. This is my first character of a monster race and I'm having some difficulty understanding all the rules and adjustments for making my class this way. From what I understand... I receive +2 str, +2 con, +2int, +4wis, -2cha. I start with 3d8 + 3xcon (8 + 1d8 for first 2 levels of kuo-toa) and have 2 levels of monstrous humanoid or Kuo-Toa as a class. My first feat is taken for alertness and great fortitude which I start with. I get to choose a feat at level 3 for my 1st level of monk as well as choose between stunning fist and improved grapple and receiving normal monk bonus feats. I will have a base attack bonus of +2 at starting level 3. I will have an ECL of 6, giving me the same experience gain and needs as generic level 6 characters. From being Kuo-Toan I get +6 natural armor, +4 spot, +4 search, +8 swim, +8 escape artist, +4 knowledge/craft, the languages common, undercommon, aquan, and kuo-toan, 10 electrical resist, the abilities: lightning bolt (cleric only), adhesive, slippery, light blindness, keen sight, amphibious, immunity to poison and paralysis, and the option of running while swimming. My class skills for point distribution are the usual monk ones in addition to knowledge (any?), craft (any?), escape artist, listen, move silently, search, spot, swim. I have a bite attack at (attack - 5) for (1d4 + str) dmg. I have speed 20ft on land, swim speed 50ft. I start with a "Pincer Staff" which is a short spear with 10ft range that does 1d10 bludgeoning, may be thrown, and if successfully hits on melee can start a grapple without invoking attack of oppertunity. Base Fort 4+con, Reflex 5+dex, and Will 5+wis. ---------------------------- That was a bit long but I think I covered it all. I'd appreciate any input especially if someone has build a Kuo-Toan character before. I'm also worried that I might be killed off easily with only 3 hit die, but that after gaining a few levels I should be able to pull my own weight. Thanks everyone.
Black Mantha 01-13-07, 07:38 AM	Looks ok, but you made 2 small mistakes. - You don't get a feat for being a level 1 monk, you get a feat for being a 3 HD character. - You don't have to choose your skills exactly the same as the entry in the MM. You can distribute your skillpoints differently (and only the skillpoints for the first HD of monsterous humanoid are quadrupled). Everything in the MM is a class skill for you. In the same way, I think you can choose a different feat than Great Fortitude. Alertness, being a bonus feat, cannot be changed.
Demarest 01-13-07, 10:44 AM	Blipdoolpoolp. LOL.
kelvinaw273 01-13-07, 03:34 PM	I receive +2 str, +2 con, +2int, +4wis, -2cha. I start with 3d8 + 3xcon (8 + 1d8 for first 2 levels of kuo-toa) and have 2 levels of monstrous humanoid or Kuo-Toa as a class. Okey, I don't know the ECL for Kuo-toa, but 3 hit dice = 3 levels as monstrous humanoid, unless you are adding your first level as Monk in there. I am guessing Kuo-toa is ECL +3 at least. My first feat is taken for alertness and great fortitude which I start with. I get to choose a feat at level 3 for my 1st level of monk as well as choose between stunning fist and improved grapple and receiving normal monk bonus feats. No, you don't. With 2 hit dice you don't get to level one monk until level 3 (which is ECL 6 if the modifier is +3). This isn't a feat-gaining level, you only get the feats available to a 3hd Kuo-toa. Then you gain a level of monk and gain the monk bonus feats only. Monster levels do not automatically gain feats as character levels do, I believe. I will have a base attack bonus of +2 at starting level 3. I will have an ECL of 6, giving me the same experience gain and needs as generic level 6 characters. From being Kuo-Toan I get +6 natural armor, +4 spot, +4 search, +8 swim, +8 escape artist, +4 knowledge/craft, the languages common, undercommon, aquan, and kuo-toan, 10 electrical resist, the abilities: lightning bolt (cleric only), adhesive, slippery, light blindness, keen sight, amphibious, immunity to poison and paralysis, and the option of running while swimming. My class skills for point distribution are the usual monk ones in addition to knowledge (any?), craft (any?), escape artist, listen, move silently, search, spot, swim. I have a bite attack at (attack - 5) for (1d4 + str) dmg. I have speed 20ft on land, swim speed 50ft. I start with a "Pincer Staff" which is a short spear with 10ft range that does 1d10 bludgeoning, may be thrown, and if successfully hits on melee can start a grapple without invoking attack of oppertunity. Base Fort 4+con, Reflex 5+dex, and Will 5+wis. ---------------------------- That was a bit long but I think I covered it all. I'd appreciate any input especially if someone has build a Kuo-Toan character before. I'm also worried that I might be killed off easily with only 3 hit die, but that after gaining a few levels I should be able to pull my own weight. Thanks everyone. Yes, that is the problem with monster characters. On the other hand as a monk you have a dynamite AC and a lot of abilities to back yourself up with. You will need to fight clever, rather than hard, and stay out of hamrs way for a few levels. Eventually your boosted Con will help you claw back the hit points on your rivals in the party, but it will take time. Personally I think there are better ways of making a good monk, but if this works for you, do it.
Drohem 01-13-07, 05:30 PM	Looks ok, but you made 2 small mistakes. - You don't get a feat for being a level 1 monk, you get a feat for being a 3 HD character. - You don't have to choose your skills exactly the same as the entry in the MM. You can distribute your skillpoints differently (and only the skillpoints for the first HD of monsterous humanoid are quadrupled). Everything in the MM is a class skill for you. In the same way, I think you can choose a different feat than Great Fortitude. Alertness, being a bonus feat, cannot be changed. Black Mantha is correct.
vileguy 01-13-07, 06:31 PM	Thanks for all the replies! I understand that characters get feats at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. You say that I have to take alertness but not great fortitude? So my level 3 character (2hd from kuo-toa because that's what you are forced to take), 1 hd from monk, +3 level adjustment would be ECL6. My 3rd lvl, or 3rd hd, I get a bonus feat so I can take weapon finesse, and I get monk ac, flurry of blows, and my choice of stunning fist, but if I don't take great fortitude do I get to choose another feat as my hd1 feat? As for skills with a +4 int modifier I approximated about 30 skill points for my first 2 levels, and 8 for monk 1 level. This is the equivalent of getting (2+int)x4 + (2+int) skill points for kuo-toa, and (4+int) for monk. And I assume that my class skills for every level will include the ones listed on the kuo-toa MM? Thanks for all the help I'm reassured now.
Drohem 01-13-07, 07:39 PM	Thanks for all the replies! I understand that characters get feats at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. You say that I have to take alertness but not great fortitude? So my level 3 character (2hd from kuo-toa because that's what you are forced to take), 1 hd from monk, +3 level adjustment would be ECL6. My 3rd lvl, or 3rd hd, I get a bonus feat so I can take weapon finesse, and I get monk ac, flurry of blows, and my choice of stunning fist, but if I don't take great fortitude do I get to choose another feat as my hd1 feat? As for skills with a +4 int modifier I approximated about 30 skill points for my first 2 levels, and 8 for monk 1 level. This is the equivalent of getting (2+int)x4 + (2+int) skill points for kuo-toa, and (4+int) for monk. And I assume that my class skills for every level will include the ones listed on the kuo-toa MM? Thanks for all the help I'm reassured now. Feats: Alertness is a bonus feat for the Kou-toa, and cannot be changed when you customize for a PC. See p. 7 "feats" of 3.5 MM. So, yes, you can pick another feat instead of Great Fortitude to customize your particular Kou-toan character, as long as you meet all prereqs. Also, you can take another feat, such as Weapon Finesse, as your 3rd Hit Die feat. In addition, you get all the abilities for a 1st level Monk as well. Skills: The skills listed under Kou-toa are the class skills for your "monster levels" or "racial hit dice." They would be considered class skills if you took another level in Kou-toa monster class. So, if you are advancing as a Monk, they are considered cross-class skills. And vice-versa, if you advance as a Kou-toa monster level, then all your Monk class skills are considered cross-classed. Skill Points: you are correct, you have a total of 38 skill points starting out (with a +4 Int modifier). 1st level Kou-toa = 24 skill points (2+4x4). 2nd level Kou-toa = 6 skill points (2+4). 1st level Monk = 8 skill points (4+4). ECL: you are correct, your character has an ECL of 6th level. So with an ECL of 6: 1. You gain experience as a 6th level character 2. Your starting equipment is equal to a 6th level character 3. You need 21,000 EXP to gain another class level 4. Right now you are considered 3rd level for gaining feats, ability increases, and skill ranks maximums. 5. For Hit Points you roll (2d8+8) + (Con modifier x 3) 6. Your Base Attack is +2 (+2 for Kou-toa monster levels and +0 for Monk level). 7. You are considered a medium Monsterous Humaniod (Aquatic) type. 8. You have a +6 Natural Armor Class. 9. Kou-toan favored class is Rouge. Saves (Ref and Will are good): Fort = +2 + Con modifier (+2 for Monk and +0 for Kou-toa racial hit dice) Ref = +5 + Dex modifier (+2 for Monk and +3 for Kou-toa hit dice) Will = +5 + Wis modifier (+2 for Monk and +3 for Kou-toa hit dice) Land Speed = 20 ft. and Swim Speed = 50 ft. Natural attack = bite for 1d4 + Str modifier at Base Attack Bonus -5 It's up to your DM if you can start with the Pincer Staff, since it says that Clerics and Fighters of 7th level or higher have these weapons. You have the these special abilities: Adhesive (Ex) Amphibious (Ex) Keen Sight (Ex) Light Blindness (Ex) Slippery (Ex) +4 racial bonus to Spot and Search checks +8 racial bonus to Escape Artist checks +8 racial bonus to Swim checks, usually can just take a 10 on most Swim checks Immunity to poison and paralysis Electricity resistence/10 Class skills for Kou-Toan racial hit dice are (spend 30 skill points, then add racial bonuses and Ability modifiers): Craft (any), Knowledge (any), Escape Artist, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, and Swim Reach is 5 ft/5 ft Starting Ability bonuses/penalties are: Str +2, Dex +0, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha -2 hope that helps! You were pretty much on the money with everything, except for a few tweaks, WTG!