LA and Ability increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

LA and Ability increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Starsword
10-21-04, 05:18 PM If my character had a LA for race... say +1, would I gain abilities at ECL 4,8,12, 16, 20? or would I gain them at Class level 4,8,12,16,20?
Aluroon
10-21-04, 05:35 PM As far as I know it continues as normal. You use your ECL. So a level 2 tiefling wizard gets an abillity increase next level.

Aluroon
Board_Rider
10-21-04, 05:46 PM You use CLASS level. Unless you have Extra HD....Then it's every 4 HD.
obrysii
10-21-04, 08:47 PM Yeah. Not ECL, but actual Class Levels.
Starsword
10-21-04, 10:44 PM so HD counts, but not adjustments for race like drow or half-giant. ok, cool, thanks.
pres_man
10-21-04, 11:23 PM HD (racial + class) effect saves, skills, hit points, feats, bab, and ability adjustments.
ECL effects wealth and xp.
Starsword
10-21-04, 11:25 PM Does that mean that I won't get my level 20 ability adjustment?
Or will I just not be epic till 21?
pres_man
10-22-04, 12:30 AM You'll be epic at 20th ECL.
You'll get your ability adjustment at 21st ECL (20th HD)
Nom
10-22-04, 02:05 AM Actually, the rules aren't clear on whether you go epic at ECL 20 or CL 20 (DMG suggests one thing in one place, and another later in the same section). However, see FAQ 26 July 2004, pg 3, which quite clearly states that CL, not ECL, determines Epic status.
Cindre2000
10-22-04, 02:15 PM Basically think of it like this:

ECL is a system built for the DM. Players should not have to worry about it. It esentially allows the DM to build encounters/adventures baised on the true powerlevel of the party, though this system tends to break down at higher levels when darkness 1/day does not have the same punch as it did at 1st level.

That is why it only effects two things. And those things are almost completly depended on the DM anyways. Experience and Wealth.

So your +1 ECL character at your 20th HD will go up against 21st level encounters.

He gains all the epic Benifits when he gets 21 HD.

(Of course, If you have a good DM, +1 ECL really should become +0 ECL a little before Epic since by then it does not matter)
Nom
10-23-04, 06:52 AM (Of course, If you have a good DM, +1 ECL really should become +0 ECL a little before Epic since by then it does not matter)Depends on the what the LA provides.

For example, a Tiefling (LA +1) gets +2 Dex (Int and Cha cancel out) and energy resistance 5 (cold, fire, elec), and some misc abilities. A free, stackable Dex bonus is nice, but hardly worth +1, and the energy resistance becomes a lot weaker at high levels.

In contrast, a Drow (LA +2) gets +2 Int, +2 Cha, 120 ft. darkvision, SR 11 + character level, +2 Will save vs spells, plus misc abilities. The SR is worth a +1 LA by itself, and certainly doesn't weaken with level, and the stat boosts and Will save boosts are also potent. I wouldn't even lower the LA to +1, let alone remove it.
Starsword
10-23-04, 07:58 PM yeah, my LA gives me powerful build, which is basically all the benefits of being large, without actually being large, and different racial type, among other things
danielinthewolvesden
10-24-04, 02:37 PM Actually, think of it this way- you get feats, ability increases and all that based upon your HIT DICE. Ignore class levels, ecl, la and all the rest. Why ignore class levels? Because racial hit dice/levles also count for feats, etc.
Cindre2000
10-24-04, 08:28 PM Depends on the what the LA provides.

For example, a Tiefling (LA +1) gets +2 Dex (Int and Cha cancel out) and energy resistance 5 (cold, fire, elec), and some misc abilities. A free, stackable Dex bonus is nice, but hardly worth +1, and the energy resistance becomes a lot weaker at high levels.

In contrast, a Drow (LA +2) gets +2 Int, +2 Cha, 120 ft. darkvision, SR 11 + character level, +2 Will save vs spells, plus misc abilities. The SR is worth a +1 LA by itself, and certainly doesn't weaken with level, and the stat boosts and Will save boosts are also potent. I wouldn't even lower the LA to +1, let alone remove it.

All I was trying to say is that due to the DM contoling LA, if a character with an LA adjustment starts being overshadowed or nearly dying in every fight due to less abilities, the DM should consider dropping their character's LA adjustment.
Starsword
10-24-04, 09:04 PM I agree with that, however, it probably won't become a problem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Starsword 10-21-04, 05:18 PM	If my character had a LA for race... say +1, would I gain abilities at ECL 4,8,12, 16, 20? or would I gain them at Class level 4,8,12,16,20?
Aluroon 10-21-04, 05:35 PM	As far as I know it continues as normal. You use your ECL. So a level 2 tiefling wizard gets an abillity increase next level. Aluroon
Board_Rider 10-21-04, 05:46 PM	You use CLASS level. Unless you have Extra HD....Then it's every 4 HD.
obrysii 10-21-04, 08:47 PM	Yeah. Not ECL, but actual Class Levels.
Starsword 10-21-04, 10:44 PM	so HD counts, but not adjustments for race like drow or half-giant. ok, cool, thanks.
pres_man 10-21-04, 11:23 PM	HD (racial + class) effect saves, skills, hit points, feats, bab, and ability adjustments. ECL effects wealth and xp.
Starsword 10-21-04, 11:25 PM	Does that mean that I won't get my level 20 ability adjustment? Or will I just not be epic till 21?
pres_man 10-22-04, 12:30 AM	You'll be epic at 20th ECL. You'll get your ability adjustment at 21st ECL (20th HD)
Nom 10-22-04, 02:05 AM	Actually, the rules aren't clear on whether you go epic at ECL 20 or CL 20 (DMG suggests one thing in one place, and another later in the same section). However, see FAQ 26 July 2004, pg 3, which quite clearly states that CL, not ECL, determines Epic status.
Cindre2000 10-22-04, 02:15 PM	Basically think of it like this: ECL is a system built for the DM. Players should not have to worry about it. It esentially allows the DM to build encounters/adventures baised on the true powerlevel of the party, though this system tends to break down at higher levels when darkness 1/day does not have the same punch as it did at 1st level. That is why it only effects two things. And those things are almost completly depended on the DM anyways. Experience and Wealth. So your +1 ECL character at your 20th HD will go up against 21st level encounters. He gains all the epic Benifits when he gets 21 HD. (Of course, If you have a good DM, +1 ECL really should become +0 ECL a little before Epic since by then it does not matter)
Nom 10-23-04, 06:52 AM	(Of course, If you have a good DM, +1 ECL really should become +0 ECL a little before Epic since by then it does not matter)Depends on the what the LA provides. For example, a Tiefling (LA +1) gets +2 Dex (Int and Cha cancel out) and energy resistance 5 (cold, fire, elec), and some misc abilities. A free, stackable Dex bonus is nice, but hardly worth +1, and the energy resistance becomes a lot weaker at high levels. In contrast, a Drow (LA +2) gets +2 Int, +2 Cha, 120 ft. darkvision, SR 11 + character level, +2 Will save vs spells, plus misc abilities. The SR is worth a +1 LA by itself, and certainly doesn't weaken with level, and the stat boosts and Will save boosts are also potent. I wouldn't even lower the LA to +1, let alone remove it.
Starsword 10-23-04, 07:58 PM	yeah, my LA gives me powerful build, which is basically all the benefits of being large, without actually being large, and different racial type, among other things
danielinthewolvesden 10-24-04, 02:37 PM	Actually, think of it this way- you get feats, ability increases and all that based upon your HIT DICE. Ignore class levels, ecl, la and all the rest. Why ignore class levels? Because racial hit dice/levles also count for feats, etc.
Cindre2000 10-24-04, 08:28 PM	Depends on the what the LA provides. For example, a Tiefling (LA +1) gets +2 Dex (Int and Cha cancel out) and energy resistance 5 (cold, fire, elec), and some misc abilities. A free, stackable Dex bonus is nice, but hardly worth +1, and the energy resistance becomes a lot weaker at high levels. In contrast, a Drow (LA +2) gets +2 Int, +2 Cha, 120 ft. darkvision, SR 11 + character level, +2 Will save vs spells, plus misc abilities. The SR is worth a +1 LA by itself, and certainly doesn't weaken with level, and the stat boosts and Will save boosts are also potent. I wouldn't even lower the LA to +1, let alone remove it. All I was trying to say is that due to the DM contoling LA, if a character with an LA adjustment starts being overshadowed or nearly dying in every fight due to less abilities, the DM should consider dropping their character's LA adjustment.
Starsword 10-24-04, 09:04 PM	I agree with that, however, it probably won't become a problem.