La Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

La Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Masamune
07-26-04, 05:27 PM Alright, I'm really going to sound like a complete n00b, but how do you determine level adjustments for characters that are not of the core races in the PH. How do you get a +1 LA for a Aasimar and a +2 LA for a Drow? How do you calculate these additional levels? Does it say somewhere in any of the core books how to find out the level adjustments for the different species or is there a website that gives the LA for each race?
Vapthorne
07-26-04, 05:49 PM It's simple. A level adjustment is added to the class level to determine the total character level of that character. Example, an 3rd level Drow cleric is a 5th level character (3 Clr + 2 LA), and is all respects equal to a 5th level elf cleric. I don't know exactly how to determine level adjustment is based on anything not listed with it's own ECL. In the MM, I think it's the monster hit dice plus the level adjust on the bottom of their stats.
pres_man
07-26-04, 08:54 PM I think the question was more along the lines of how the level adjustment is calculated, so if let's say you wanted to make your own race, how would you determine it?
dhaga
07-26-04, 10:51 PM It's determined based on how powerful the creature is, with no class levels. I'll use the drow example: a drow with no class levels is fairly equal in strength to a 2nd level character already, hence the LA +2.

According to the MM (3.0), it is based on HD. An ogre has 4 HD; if it picks up a level of fighter, it's a 5th-level-equivalent character (4 "levels" of ogre, 1 level of fighter).
Kheldren
07-27-04, 03:34 AM I hate to say this, but dhaga is exactly wrong! The Hit Die is completely seperate to the LA by my understanding.

The 3.0 DMG (I have not seen 3.5) gives some LAs, and I beleive Savage Species (and the MOnster Manuals) give a lot more.

Judging by numerous posts from people on these forums the LA is supposed to balance the ability score modifiers and sepcial powers of a race to match the core races. This is in addition to the Hit Die.

Thus - you can have a +1 LA race with 2 Hit die so when they gain 2 class levels they are:

2 (HD) + 1 (LA) + 2 (class) = 5th level for xp purposes
BUT
2 (HD) + 2 (class) = 4th level for skills and feats etc.
(Yes, the races with bonus Hit Die do gain skills and feats and, I assume, stat gains for their racial hit dice 'levels'.)

If I am wrong (which I probably am, at least in part) then hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and correct me, but I thought I should clear this up. As for the source, I would guess that Savage Species will be the book that covers this in the most detail.
Lord Lorac Silvanos
07-27-04, 04:12 AM Everything on the subject can be found in the MM or the SRD.

For an easy access try the following link:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAsRaces.html
Ertai Planeswalker
07-27-04, 04:16 AM LA and ECL are fully explained in the Savage Species book, so if you ask on that forum they could give you a fully detailed explanation of how the system works. Personally, i'm eyeballing it. The system the SS offers makes LA's a little high for what they grant.

A character's ECL (Effective character level) is the sum of his HD (Hitdice), class levels, and LA. (Level adjustment)

A Level Adjustment is determined by the extra abilities gained by a template/race, such as spell-like abilities, ability score adjustments.

Unearthed Arcana has a variant rule our group adopted about buying off LA to make them less steep in the long run. I suggest you use it too.
RaKhan
07-27-04, 05:45 AM Originally posted by Ertai Planeswalker
A character's ECL (Effective character level) is the sum of his HD (Hitdice), class levels, and LA. (Level adjustment)

Actually, you're slightly incorrect. Since HD is factored into the LA for a particular race, the ECL is simply LA + class levels.
Lord Lorac Silvanos
07-27-04, 06:32 AM Originally posted by RaKhan
Actually, you're slightly incorrect. Since HD is factored into the LA for a particular race, the ECL is simply LA + class levels.

From the SRD (the link I provided earlier):
To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.
Nom
07-27-04, 08:11 AM Class levels are "real" levels. Monster levels are "real" levels. Add these together to get the character level. Add level adjustment (LA) to character level to get effective character level (ECL), which is used only for XP purposes and a couple of other balance-related rules (eg starting wealth and cohorts). Character level is used the rest of the time.

Creatures with only 1 racial HD lose that HD when they gain class levels.

Examples:

human (LA +0) fighter 2: character level 2, ECL 2
drow (LA +2) fighter 2: character level 2, ECL 4
bugbear (3 HD (monstrous humanoid), LA +1), fighter 2: character level 5, ECL 6

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Masamune 07-26-04, 05:27 PM	Alright, I'm really going to sound like a complete n00b, but how do you determine level adjustments for characters that are not of the core races in the PH. How do you get a +1 LA for a Aasimar and a +2 LA for a Drow? How do you calculate these additional levels? Does it say somewhere in any of the core books how to find out the level adjustments for the different species or is there a website that gives the LA for each race?
Vapthorne 07-26-04, 05:49 PM	It's simple. A level adjustment is added to the class level to determine the total character level of that character. Example, an 3rd level Drow cleric is a 5th level character (3 Clr + 2 LA), and is all respects equal to a 5th level elf cleric. I don't know exactly how to determine level adjustment is based on anything not listed with it's own ECL. In the MM, I think it's the monster hit dice plus the level adjust on the bottom of their stats.
pres_man 07-26-04, 08:54 PM	I think the question was more along the lines of how the level adjustment is calculated, so if let's say you wanted to make your own race, how would you determine it?
dhaga 07-26-04, 10:51 PM	It's determined based on how powerful the creature is, with no class levels. I'll use the drow example: a drow with no class levels is fairly equal in strength to a 2nd level character already, hence the LA +2. According to the MM (3.0), it is based on HD. An ogre has 4 HD; if it picks up a level of fighter, it's a 5th-level-equivalent character (4 "levels" of ogre, 1 level of fighter).
Kheldren 07-27-04, 03:34 AM	I hate to say this, but dhaga is exactly wrong! The Hit Die is completely seperate to the LA by my understanding. The 3.0 DMG (I have not seen 3.5) gives some LAs, and I beleive Savage Species (and the MOnster Manuals) give a lot more. Judging by numerous posts from people on these forums the LA is supposed to balance the ability score modifiers and sepcial powers of a race to match the core races. This is in addition to the Hit Die. Thus - you can have a +1 LA race with 2 Hit die so when they gain 2 class levels they are: 2 (HD) + 1 (LA) + 2 (class) = 5th level for xp purposes BUT 2 (HD) + 2 (class) = 4th level for skills and feats etc. (Yes, the races with bonus Hit Die do gain skills and feats and, I assume, stat gains for their racial hit dice 'levels'.) If I am wrong (which I probably am, at least in part) then hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and correct me, but I thought I should clear this up. As for the source, I would guess that Savage Species will be the book that covers this in the most detail.
Lord Lorac Silvanos 07-27-04, 04:12 AM	Everything on the subject can be found in the MM or the SRD. For an easy access try the following link: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAsRaces.html
Ertai Planeswalker 07-27-04, 04:16 AM	LA and ECL are fully explained in the Savage Species book, so if you ask on that forum they could give you a fully detailed explanation of how the system works. Personally, i'm eyeballing it. The system the SS offers makes LA's a little high for what they grant. A character's ECL (Effective character level) is the sum of his HD (Hitdice), class levels, and LA. (Level adjustment) A Level Adjustment is determined by the extra abilities gained by a template/race, such as spell-like abilities, ability score adjustments. Unearthed Arcana has a variant rule our group adopted about buying off LA to make them less steep in the long run. I suggest you use it too.
RaKhan 07-27-04, 05:45 AM	Originally posted by Ertai Planeswalker A character's ECL (Effective character level) is the sum of his HD (Hitdice), class levels, and LA. (Level adjustment) Actually, you're slightly incorrect. Since HD is factored into the LA for a particular race, the ECL is simply LA + class levels.
Lord Lorac Silvanos 07-27-04, 06:32 AM	Originally posted by RaKhan Actually, you're slightly incorrect. Since HD is factored into the LA for a particular race, the ECL is simply LA + class levels. From the SRD (the link I provided earlier): To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.
Nom 07-27-04, 08:11 AM	Class levels are "real" levels. Monster levels are "real" levels. Add these together to get the character level. Add level adjustment (LA) to character level to get effective character level (ECL), which is used only for XP purposes and a couple of other balance-related rules (eg starting wealth and cohorts). Character level is used the rest of the time. Creatures with only 1 racial HD lose that HD when they gain class levels. Examples: human (LA +0) fighter 2: character level 2, ECL 2 drow (LA +2) fighter 2: character level 2, ECL 4 bugbear (3 HD (monstrous humanoid), LA +1), fighter 2: character level 5, ECL 6