Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShadowDragon8685 07-24-07, 08:30 PM	Here's something that's been bugging me. I've been trying to play a Lillend in a level 10 game, but the DM has ruled that the costs for special materials are doubled. As I understood it, those costs were a +flat rate, and the only thing that gets doubled is the base cost of the item and the masterwork. I'm paying out the nose for the privledge of having a +4 to grapple checks and a d12 greatclub instead of a d10. There's got to be something wrong here, but I need an officiously official answer, or at least a good consensus, before I can rescue my lillend from the scrapheap of miserable characters brought low by overbearing DMs paranoid about any potential munchkining.
Caelic 07-24-07, 08:41 PM	I have to say I'd side with your DM on this one. Then again, I like to have things at least somewhat realistic. If you're bigger than a normal person, then it's going to take more mithril to make you a suit of armor. If it takes more mithril, doesn't it stand to reason that it would cost more? It doesn't really have all that much to do with munchkinism. When I tell the player of a large character that the cobbler in the village doesn't have ready-made boots in his size, and he'll have to have them custom made, it's not because I'm worried that he's going to engage in Uber Boot Powergaming--it's just that, like I said, I like a bit of realism, and sometimes realism isn't totally convenient for player characters.
ShadowDragon8685 07-24-07, 08:45 PM	I have to say I'd side with your DM on this one. Then again, I like to have things at least somewhat realistic. If you're bigger than a normal person, then it's going to take more mithril to make you a suit of armor. If it takes more mithril, doesn't it stand to reason that it would cost more? It doesn't really have all that much to do with munchkinism. When I tell the player of a large character that the cobbler in the village doesn't have ready-made boots in his size, and he'll have to have them custom made, it's not because I'm worried that he's going to engage in Uber Boot Powergaming--it's just that, like I said, I like a bit of realism, and sometimes realism isn't totally convenient for player characters. Realism has no place in a game where a tenth level character can level a clean city block. Sure, the cobbler dosen't have a boot for him - he pays 20 gold extra and waits five hours. Big deal. There's a far cry from that, and utterly screwing a character over, as doubling the price does.
Caelic 07-24-07, 08:52 PM	Realism has no place in a game where a tenth level character can level a clean city block. Sure, the cobbler dosen't have a boot for him - he pays 20 gold extra and waits five hours. Big deal. We'll have to agree to disagree there. I despise games where the presence of magic is used as an excuse for having no sense of realism or logic. If I want that, I'll play Toon. There's a far cry from that, and utterly screwing a character over, as doubling the price does. I'd call doubling the price a pretty far cry from "utterly screwing a character." Most special materials aren't THAT expensive, and most characters won't die if they don't have a suit of armor made from adamantine or mithril.
StevenO 07-24-07, 08:59 PM	I certainly agree with doubling the cost of special materials when used in armor. This could even be considered generous if you remember that doubling the size of a human would increase this area x4 and his volume x8. With weapons I don't think the price increase should be quite so severe but there should still be a small additional cost.
ShadowDragon8685 07-24-07, 09:16 PM	Caelic, I wound up paying more than twice in materials what I was paying in enchantments. Mithral is absoloutely essential for the armor, as I can't actually fly without it. Plus, if you want to play brass tacks with "realism", I counter with the argument that none of my stuff except possbily the greatclub should cost any more at all than that for a Medium character. The Lillend is shown in the Planar Handbook in line next to a Hound Archon and a Jaani, and her torso (which is all that a Breastplate covers) is no bigger than theirs.
Caelic 07-24-07, 09:24 PM	ShadowDragon, Actually, in my campaign, I'd accept that; you're correct that realistically, a breastplate made for a human should fit a Lillend just fine. If you were going for, say, a suit of full plate, that would be a different story.
ShadowDragon8685 07-24-07, 09:30 PM	ShadowDragon, Actually, in my campaign, I'd accept that; you're correct that realistically, a breastplate made for a human should fit a Lillend just fine. If you were going for, say, a suit of full plate, that would be a different story. See, that's not what I'm looking for. I don't want to feel like I'm trying to "cheat" or "outmanouver" the DM. I just want the RAW to be applied fairly and evenly, without smacking myself with the nerfbat for the pleasure of playing an interesting and exotic character.
highbulp 07-24-07, 09:32 PM	Eh, I could read it either way. It is kind of vague, but generally the increase in price is a base value, and the special material is a bonus cost. At the same time, it does seem reasonable to have more armor cost require more special materials--such as how heavy mithril armor costs more than light mithril armor (as opposed to say, how the +1 enhancement bonus costs the same no matter what kind of armor you put it on). Balance-wise, it shouldn't be game-breaking to allow Large characters to spend the same amount of money on mithril armor. After all, they paid for their large size with the level adjustment already. But at the same time, I don't see how it could be that much of a gimp to your character to have mithril armor cost double for you. No matter what you may say, you don't have to have mithril armor. If you don't like forking over the cash for that, wear light armor and spend the money on enhancement bonuses. Or better yet, go with Bracers of Armor and save even more. You have multiple options open to you.