LAs ruining my day [Archive] - Wizards Community

LAs ruining my day [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KhosatralKhel
08-04-07, 04:42 PM I've been tinkering with a half-ogre wizard for my character, finished my attributes and browsing for feats when I notices Races of Destiny had a section on half-ogres (had been using Savage Species). Disappointed that the rp stuff was just reprints I reviewed the abilities. Thinking of giants, was kinda surprised that ogres had darkvision...then noticed LA +2. SS only had 1.

I bumped into the same issue with kuotoa and conceded that they were LA3 worthy and ditched that concept. Half-ogre seems to be more on the border, though it would definately make an overpowered barb. Should I give up on this idea, consult my DM on altering the race (both of us strongly dislike making exceptions), or just forget I ever opened Races of Destiny?
MrCustomer
08-04-07, 06:10 PM If there is a conflict between the two, then I would discard the Races of Destiny version as being more focused on the story and being more of a game modual (ie the story of half ogres becoming civilized) and use Savage Species as Core Rules for using monsters as player races, since it is focused on the mechanics.

But first you should check the errata on the main website, perhaps there is a mistake in one of the books.
Jagyr Ebonwood
08-04-07, 06:25 PM Holf-Ogres were bumped up in LA because, as you pointed out, they kill in a melee class. And no one uses them for non-melee classes.

Ask your DM if you can use the SS version, since you won't be making a melee specialist.
I'm sure I saw something somewhere (Maybe in the 3.0 DMG?) about lowering LAs when you were advancing in a "sub-optimal" class.
Drag0nUL
08-04-07, 06:28 PM Correct me if I am wrong (don't have the books here to check), but isn't Savage Species 3.0 material while Races of Destiny is 3.5?
If so I think the 3.5 material should have priority.
Nevertheless, as a DM I would agree on a +1 LA half-ogre wizard if it is for the sake of roleplay.
SilentOne
08-04-07, 06:40 PM Likewise, I'd let you play with +1 LA, for taking a suboptimal class, but I'd be watching the character to make sure that it actually warranted it.

However, that said, the RoD takes precedent over the SS version, since it's both firmly 3.5 (as opposed to SS's 3.25, printed while they were making the revision and being part of both), and printed after SS, and thus making it the latest version (like errata).
MrCustomer
08-04-07, 09:55 PM aye, yes SS is before 3.5 so RoD is the proper one to use for LA, I was wrong.

I would use the lesser anyways in this case, may of the reasons for the LA in this case are due to the high strength and other melee attributes, making the half-ogre a melee god, whereas the other qualities of a Half-Ogre would be a hinderence to a Wizard class. Your canceling out some of the reasons for the LA while penalizing your class, so a lower LA would be in order I think.
KhosatralKhel
08-04-07, 10:10 PM Just to be clearer, he wouldn't be fully suboptimal. I was intending to go with Fleshwarper and bedeck him in grafts. I kept his strength high (ish) and penalized the rest to make up the lost intellect. Smart, strong, but still slow and odd pauses in his speech. Dumped some wisdom out to represent some of that barbaric need to beat stuff.

Eventually he'd pick up a few fiendish grafts which all base their damage on size (d8 instead of a d6), but his lower will would make it funny as hell to rp his being CG.

Bigger claws, still smaller hd. I think I'll tough out the loss of another caster level if my DM feels its still worthy of its LA.
danielinthewolvesden
08-04-07, 11:00 PM If there is a conflict between the two, then I would discard the Races of Destiny version as being more focused on the story and being more of a game modual (ie the story of half ogres becoming civilized) and use Savage Species as Core Rules for using monsters as player races, since it is focused on the mechanics.

Savage Species is 3.0 (or maybe 3.25:D ) not 3.5. There is some good stuff here and there but anything supplanted by real 3.5 gamebooks is clearly outdated.
Kradlo
08-05-07, 10:04 AM Races of Destiny has the updated, 3.5 edition version, and that's the official revision. If there is some question to be decided, the one to make the call is the GM.
war_thog
08-15-07, 07:24 AM I don't think its necessarily Sub Optimal to be an ogre mage.
You get a tad less int but being an ogre is still a beast as a mage.

You can make touch attack spells at 10 ft...... dont need to 5 ft or def cast to avoid attacks of op.

You're a strong bastard so you can still hurt things when you hit them.

Any buff spells...... even going team Tensers and you become an absolute melee tank.

The natural armour is a good send for mages as they often have lower AC at the start at least.

And the outside of combat benefits of being big and strong you can lift heavy things and do cool stuff strength wise :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KhosatralKhel 08-04-07, 04:42 PM	I've been tinkering with a half-ogre wizard for my character, finished my attributes and browsing for feats when I notices Races of Destiny had a section on half-ogres (had been using Savage Species). Disappointed that the rp stuff was just reprints I reviewed the abilities. Thinking of giants, was kinda surprised that ogres had darkvision...then noticed LA +2. SS only had 1. I bumped into the same issue with kuotoa and conceded that they were LA3 worthy and ditched that concept. Half-ogre seems to be more on the border, though it would definately make an overpowered barb. Should I give up on this idea, consult my DM on altering the race (both of us strongly dislike making exceptions), or just forget I ever opened Races of Destiny?
MrCustomer 08-04-07, 06:10 PM	If there is a conflict between the two, then I would discard the Races of Destiny version as being more focused on the story and being more of a game modual (ie the story of half ogres becoming civilized) and use Savage Species as Core Rules for using monsters as player races, since it is focused on the mechanics. But first you should check the errata on the main website, perhaps there is a mistake in one of the books.
Jagyr Ebonwood 08-04-07, 06:25 PM	Holf-Ogres were bumped up in LA because, as you pointed out, they kill in a melee class. And no one uses them for non-melee classes. Ask your DM if you can use the SS version, since you won't be making a melee specialist. I'm sure I saw something somewhere (Maybe in the 3.0 DMG?) about lowering LAs when you were advancing in a "sub-optimal" class.
Drag0nUL 08-04-07, 06:28 PM	Correct me if I am wrong (don't have the books here to check), but isn't Savage Species 3.0 material while Races of Destiny is 3.5? If so I think the 3.5 material should have priority. Nevertheless, as a DM I would agree on a +1 LA half-ogre wizard if it is for the sake of roleplay.
SilentOne 08-04-07, 06:40 PM	Likewise, I'd let you play with +1 LA, for taking a suboptimal class, but I'd be watching the character to make sure that it actually warranted it. However, that said, the RoD takes precedent over the SS version, since it's both firmly 3.5 (as opposed to SS's 3.25, printed while they were making the revision and being part of both), and printed after SS, and thus making it the latest version (like errata).
MrCustomer 08-04-07, 09:55 PM	aye, yes SS is before 3.5 so RoD is the proper one to use for LA, I was wrong. I would use the lesser anyways in this case, may of the reasons for the LA in this case are due to the high strength and other melee attributes, making the half-ogre a melee god, whereas the other qualities of a Half-Ogre would be a hinderence to a Wizard class. Your canceling out some of the reasons for the LA while penalizing your class, so a lower LA would be in order I think.
KhosatralKhel 08-04-07, 10:10 PM	Just to be clearer, he wouldn't be fully suboptimal. I was intending to go with Fleshwarper and bedeck him in grafts. I kept his strength high (ish) and penalized the rest to make up the lost intellect. Smart, strong, but still slow and odd pauses in his speech. Dumped some wisdom out to represent some of that barbaric need to beat stuff. Eventually he'd pick up a few fiendish grafts which all base their damage on size (d8 instead of a d6), but his lower will would make it funny as hell to rp his being CG. Bigger claws, still smaller hd. I think I'll tough out the loss of another caster level if my DM feels its still worthy of its LA.
danielinthewolvesden 08-04-07, 11:00 PM	If there is a conflict between the two, then I would discard the Races of Destiny version as being more focused on the story and being more of a game modual (ie the story of half ogres becoming civilized) and use Savage Species as Core Rules for using monsters as player races, since it is focused on the mechanics. Savage Species is 3.0 (or maybe 3.25:D ) not 3.5. There is some good stuff here and there but anything supplanted by real 3.5 gamebooks is clearly outdated.
Kradlo 08-05-07, 10:04 AM	Races of Destiny has the updated, 3.5 edition version, and that's the official revision. If there is some question to be decided, the one to make the call is the GM.
war_thog 08-15-07, 07:24 AM	I don't think its necessarily Sub Optimal to be an ogre mage. You get a tad less int but being an ogre is still a beast as a mage. You can make touch attack spells at 10 ft...... dont need to 5 ft or def cast to avoid attacks of op. You're a strong bastard so you can still hurt things when you hit them. Any buff spells...... even going team Tensers and you become an absolute melee tank. The natural armour is a good send for mages as they often have lower AC at the start at least. And the outside of combat benefits of being big and strong you can lift heavy things and do cool stuff strength wise :)