new basic class: artificer [Archive] - Wizards Community

new basic class: artificer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Silent_spy
04-21-04, 01:01 AM The need for an artificer class arose due to the magic:the gathering influence on this world. D&D just doesn't have enough constructs, and the D&D constructs tend to be lumps of material without joints or moving parts that are magically animated. This thread is for your ideas on the artificer class and mechanical constructs made by artificers. You should also check the academies thread for information.

My idea is a system of level based class abilities which enable you to take more points in artifact-creation/repair/identification skills and allow more artifact related feats. This prevents a rouge from taking one class in artificer and being even better than a pure artificer. Ogviously, you cant roll up a character with what I just told you, so post away.
Agent Graves
04-21-04, 07:22 PM according to magic, what is the artificer able to create?
also, what do the wizo's think about the class idea?

What are the basic stats the artificer will be using spy?
Are there any races you think will favour this class?

I was wondering if there should be a penalty if you multiclass to say and arcane class. This would represent your turn away from mechanics to rely on magic.

Does any magic come into this class at all?
Silent_spy
04-22-04, 12:08 AM Artificers are able to create almost anything. the actual artificer cards do not have the ability to create artifacts, but it remains that that is what artificers do. They make artifacts, repair them, manipulate them, and destroy them. I believe gnomes would be the current D&D race most likely to take up the artificer class, followed by humans. But humans do everything, sop they dont count. here are some example artificers:
Goblin Archaeologist
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Synod Artificer
Vedalken Engineer
Artificers do not have an aversion to magic. It is feasable that they often use magic to enhance their artifacts. Vedalken in particular probably use arcane magic and artifacts.

The artificer should probably have a d6 hit dice to represent that they avoid combat. Possibly lower, but they strike me as tougher than wizards.
Silent_spy
04-22-04, 11:59 PM Artificer (3'rd edition)
abilities: intelligence and dexterity are important for artificers because the spend much of their time fiddling with mechanical contraptions.
alignment:any
hit die: d6 (or d4, yet to be determined)
class skills:
alchemy, appraise, craft, knowledge(mechanics), concentration, decipher script, disable device, forgery, gather information, spot, use magic device, craft artifact*, repair artifact*
skill points at 1'st level: (6+int modifier) x 4
skill points per level:6 +int modifier
class features:
-proficient with simple weapons and light armor,
-only artificers may take craft artifact and repair artifact
-skill limits: artificers may only have up to 4 skill points + 1 per level in craft artifact and repair artifact.
-artificer feats: artificers may take one additional artificer feat every four artificer levels.
____________________________________
new skills:
-craft artifact
this skill is used to craft a functioning artifact from a pile of parts. example DCs: clockwork spider DC 14, clockwork dragon DC 37
To use craft artifact you must have all the parts necessary for te artifact. In addition, you may only pick artifacts from this list: (list to be determined). Thus, you could not make a sheild guardian or homonculous. Not all constructs are considered artifacts. Rouges with at least one level in artificer may take this skill as a cross-class skill, ignoring normal restrictions.
-Repair artifact
This enables an artificer to attempt to piece together a disabled or damaged artifact. Because the pieces are still there, the cost of the artifact varies. DC for an artifact creature is 10+CR of creature +1 per point of damage. DC for a non creature artifact is equal to the artifacts creation DC. Missing parts for the artifact cost 1 gold per DC. *Variant: massive damage. If an artifact creature has -10 hit points of was destroyed in a particularly destructive way, the DC for repair is +10 and cost is double what it would be, even with the extra ten DC.
________________________________________ ______
new feats:
-inventive mind: DM adds one unknown artifact design whose Creation level is equal to your level (or lower if none are available) to your mechanics book.
-artifact familiarity: You gain a +4 bonus on repair and create checks on an artifact in your mechanic book, as long as you have made at least one or repaired at least two individual artifacts of that type.
-Domineer: once per day you may attempt to gain controll of a hostile or neutal artifact as a full round action. DC: artifacts creation DC + 5. If you are attacked (for example, by the artifact) while attempting this you must succeed at a concentration check (DC 15 + damage dealt)
________________________________________ __________
EDIT:
base attack bonus--ref/fort save--will save
0--0--1
1--0--2
1--1--2
2--1--3
2--1--3
3--2--4
3--2--4
4--2--5
4--3--5
5--3--6
5--3--6
6/1--4--7
6/1--4--7
7/2--4--8
7/2--5--8
8/3--5--9
8/3--5--9
9/4--6--10
9/4--6--10
10/5--6--11
________________________________________ _______
Note: INCOMPLETE. I need your ideas and criticisms ( I admit I'm not thinking straight right now. Hey, look a penguin. What? Oh, yeah. Post away. I also need ideas for the mechanic book system, artifacts to put in it, and a better name for the mechanic book. and some other things I cant think of, probably because-hey, look a panda. What? oh yeah. I'm not thinking straight.:looloo: :twitch: :turkey:
TheBardicTraveller
05-05-04, 06:14 PM Artificer preview (http://be.msnusers.com/LegendaryPoetsSociety/Documenten/Artificer%2Edoc?did=1&t=5**Y8fuamDSfeCOvQzLDzaXZ7Rj1VVyTiue*KF 5*Q7MghpjOjfNux3PfkuG*OWE6wQw9u1Ilq3EkM* YBxkLFJkEw$$&p=5KzJhWqmXHe5v2MHMI1kndvH8gmCGRSnnb7lcY TnZoQgKuUxKJiKj0EO67!62*CUCHcG7q9w*1DxCc FXCDqX9BDul54NbBn45nWNyhV2mHgTm0ZH41UFsm FPyr8E0peW3M9fvqis2eCzWe!1aKHmj6ZGX9S1IZ UBxVqsZsnaFkA1Atg7n4Ob*qF5onFZqS2yyuvIn6 GPPvfbT1mZG8x5OWgI9htwx*4!sG)

Basing myself on the stuff you guys allready came up with, i created a class table for the artificer. Look it over, and plz tell me what you think.
Agent Graves
05-11-04, 06:30 PM i was thinking, on the way into work,
about a prestige class that uses the artificer and maybe a wizard.
Basically its a time wizard with spells like haste and slow, hypnotize...
the artificer part comes in because they'd have to make a fob watch and
focus their power on the watch...
Silent_spy
05-11-04, 07:38 PM I cannot read the page. Could you email it to me? I will send a pm Thanks in advance!
Silent_spy
05-19-04, 12:41 AM Or, no thanks. anyway, spelling errors aside ( I tend to get online just about the time my brain falls asleep), the artificer is just about done. So we need to focus on stuff to make. A big component should be creatures, since artificers need things to do their fighting for them. I think they should have a d4 for hit dice because they are mechanical. Unlike organic creatures, there is little variation, so 4d4(4-16) better represents one than 2d10(2-20)heres my first entry:

Clockwork pest
tiny construct
1/2 1d4 hit dice (1hp)
+0
15 feet
AC 13 (+3 size)
attacks: claws+2 melee
1d4-3
2.5/2.5/0
-
construct
ref+0, will+0
str5, dex10, con-, int 4, wis 10, cha 2
listen+2, spot+2, search+2, hide+5, move silently+2
anywhere
solitary or swarm (10-100)
CR 1/6
you may need to look at the moster manual to know what some of these are, but hey. It works. create artifact DC 23. creation cost 10 gold. creation time 3d4 hours. (concentration check and a stable place to work required to work while traveling) Limit 4 at one time. ( to prevent massive swarming. This we do not like: "okay, my 3000 pests move in on the great wyrm...yay! I win! say, how much experience does a level 3 get for a cr 21 monster?") This also reflects the inability to control massive numbers of creatures. this is my inspiration: nuisance engine The pests are like insects...but with four legs. Hey, they're constructs, they can be whatever the inventor wants.
TheBardicTraveller
05-19-04, 11:21 AM Is it not so that constructs have an Constitution score, but no Intelligence score?
Silent_spy
05-20-04, 05:34 PM No, that is not true. Could you have possibly looked it up before that useless spam-like post?

Some of the D&D constructs can be listed here. For example, Iron Golem. However, changes need tobe made on creation methods. To keep it fair, iron golems(Bosh, Iron Golem oxxida golem )material costs should remain the same. If anyone has a monter manual II, I believe there are some good constructs in there as well. I've only ever seen one browsing through a bookstore, I did not buy it.
Agent Graves
05-20-04, 06:03 PM maybe the limit should be four at one time...
just coz you can only have four of one card in a magic deck

what do u reckon?

otherwise, your pest is a good idea. What does the pest actually look like?
is it like a mouse?

what other clockwork constructs are you thinking of?
will they all be called 'clockwork' coz it has a nice ring to it
Silent_spy
05-28-04, 12:05 AM Pest tokens (from the linked card) arent clockwork in the game, but they should be so they are. Plus I needed a name and 'pest' just isn't good enough.

also, sorry for my absence. I think i signed on on someone elses computer so i didn't get any subscription messages or something...whatever. Point is I didn't know I was getting responses. Now back to the world

Just about everything will be clockwork. I put clockwork before pest only because of the name, but here is a list of cards for you to look at:

clockwork dragon
clockwork condor
clockwork vorrac
clockwork beetle
those are all the clockwork cards i can come up with. Now, I dont mean to surprise or overwhelm you with a massive number of cards, but if you look at the mirrodin, darksteel, or fifth dawn sortable spoiler lists and search for 'artifact creature', you will get so many listings you'll go crazy. Then you consider that those cards are only from THREE sets, and there are around 35. Plus Promo cards. Like I said, didn't mean to scare you. I'll post the links in a sec.
edit:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/cardlist/fifthdawn
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/cardlist/darksteel
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/cardlist/mirrodin
Silent_spy
05-28-04, 12:31 AM Am I a spammer now too? oh well. Sue me. At least I have content.

Because of the inherently INCREDIBLY MASSIVE number or possible artifacts, I propose a guideline for conversions. for example, in magic, I dont think you can get a naturally occuring power or toughness of greater than 13. Please correct me if you can, I find it difficult to research due to my laziness. I am listing averages here. A power of 1 should be 2.5-3.5 damage, a power of 2 4.5-5.5 damage, and so on. I dont know about hit points yet, it is more complicated. by this system, darksteel collosus would average 14 damage, probably a roll od 2d12+1. I believe the current D&D system is far more complicated that it should be and at the same time no better than first edition D&D, but that is only my opinion and I play 3'rd edition anyway. Theres no way I'm forking over more money for 3.5 though. you'd think their 300 playtesters would have told them the problems with 3'rd before I payed 100 bucks for the core rule books and the extra stuff.
I'm rambling.
This system should be much easier to invent than the stats for 1000 constructs.
Agent Graves
05-28-04, 01:58 AM well, that is alot of clockwork...
there is certainly alot of range for the artificer
i'm not good with damage etc, so i'll let other ppl work that out.

good work Silent_spy

do u think there would be other things... not just clockwork animals
the artificer would make? like a mechanical leg, or hand...
Silent_spy
05-30-04, 07:07 PM artificer can certainly make more than clockwork critters. There are some cool not creature artifacts that i think can translate well to the artificers abilities (perhaps with a mix of wizard/sorcerer spells)
pyrite spellbomb
necrogen spellbomb
AEther spellbomb
sunbeam spellbomb
lifespark spellbomb
But artificers can certainly make more than spellbombs.
Another idea I have for artificers is a magical enegy source that powers the artifacts. We'll call it an energy core for now, even though 'energy core' sounds lame. Most artificers in magic cast spells (almost everybody in magic casts spells), so they should get some weak arcane abilities along with the artifact crafting stuff. Most of the spells should concern artifacts, to keep wizards from getting jealous. For example, a spell to make energy cores.
Agent Graves
05-30-04, 07:30 PM the energy source... is that basically a magical battery?
do you think it would have a period of working time?
Silent_spy
05-30-04, 07:43 PM yes and yes. And another idea i have is random malfunctions, to keep things interesting. For example, artificer makes a clockwork dragon. dragon gets hit in the head wioth boulder. dragon goes crazy. dragon bites off artificers head. For random malfunctions, use this:
when a construct is hit roll 1d100. if you roll a 1, it goes crazy and kills anything it can until it...well... cant anymore.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Silent_spy 04-21-04, 01:01 AM	The need for an artificer class arose due to the magic:the gathering influence on this world. D&D just doesn't have enough constructs, and the D&D constructs tend to be lumps of material without joints or moving parts that are magically animated. This thread is for your ideas on the artificer class and mechanical constructs made by artificers. You should also check the academies thread for information. My idea is a system of level based class abilities which enable you to take more points in artifact-creation/repair/identification skills and allow more artifact related feats. This prevents a rouge from taking one class in artificer and being even better than a pure artificer. Ogviously, you cant roll up a character with what I just told you, so post away.
Agent Graves 04-21-04, 07:22 PM	according to magic, what is the artificer able to create? also, what do the wizo's think about the class idea? What are the basic stats the artificer will be using spy? Are there any races you think will favour this class? I was wondering if there should be a penalty if you multiclass to say and arcane class. This would represent your turn away from mechanics to rely on magic. Does any magic come into this class at all?
Silent_spy 04-22-04, 12:08 AM	Artificers are able to create almost anything. the actual artificer cards do not have the ability to create artifacts, but it remains that that is what artificers do. They make artifacts, repair them, manipulate them, and destroy them. I believe gnomes would be the current D&D race most likely to take up the artificer class, followed by humans. But humans do everything, sop they dont count. here are some example artificers: Goblin Archaeologist Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer Synod Artificer Vedalken Engineer Artificers do not have an aversion to magic. It is feasable that they often use magic to enhance their artifacts. Vedalken in particular probably use arcane magic and artifacts. The artificer should probably have a d6 hit dice to represent that they avoid combat. Possibly lower, but they strike me as tougher than wizards.
Silent_spy 04-22-04, 11:59 PM	Artificer (3'rd edition) abilities: intelligence and dexterity are important for artificers because the spend much of their time fiddling with mechanical contraptions. alignment:any hit die: d6 (or d4, yet to be determined) class skills: alchemy, appraise, craft, knowledge(mechanics), concentration, decipher script, disable device, forgery, gather information, spot, use magic device, craft artifact, repair artifact skill points at 1'st level: (6+int modifier) x 4 skill points per level:6 +int modifier class features: -proficient with simple weapons and light armor, -only artificers may take craft artifact and repair artifact -skill limits: artificers may only have up to 4 skill points + 1 per level in craft artifact and repair artifact. -artificer feats: artificers may take one additional artificer feat every four artificer levels. ____________________________________ new skills: -craft artifact this skill is used to craft a functioning artifact from a pile of parts. example DCs: clockwork spider DC 14, clockwork dragon DC 37 To use craft artifact you must have all the parts necessary for te artifact. In addition, you may only pick artifacts from this list: (list to be determined). Thus, you could not make a sheild guardian or homonculous. Not all constructs are considered artifacts. Rouges with at least one level in artificer may take this skill as a cross-class skill, ignoring normal restrictions. -Repair artifact This enables an artificer to attempt to piece together a disabled or damaged artifact. Because the pieces are still there, the cost of the artifact varies. DC for an artifact creature is 10+CR of creature +1 per point of damage. DC for a non creature artifact is equal to the artifacts creation DC. Missing parts for the artifact cost 1 gold per DC. *Variant: massive damage. If an artifact creature has -10 hit points of was destroyed in a particularly destructive way, the DC for repair is +10 and cost is double what it would be, even with the extra ten DC. ________________________________________ ______ new feats: -inventive mind: DM adds one unknown artifact design whose Creation level is equal to your level (or lower if none are available) to your mechanics book. -artifact familiarity: You gain a +4 bonus on repair and create checks on an artifact in your mechanic book, as long as you have made at least one or repaired at least two individual artifacts of that type. -Domineer: once per day you may attempt to gain controll of a hostile or neutal artifact as a full round action. DC: artifacts creation DC + 5. If you are attacked (for example, by the artifact) while attempting this you must succeed at a concentration check (DC 15 + damage dealt) ________________________________________ __________ EDIT: base attack bonus--ref/fort save--will save 0--0--1 1--0--2 1--1--2 2--1--3 2--1--3 3--2--4 3--2--4 4--2--5 4--3--5 5--3--6 5--3--6 6/1--4--7 6/1--4--7 7/2--4--8 7/2--5--8 8/3--5--9 8/3--5--9 9/4--6--10 9/4--6--10 10/5--6--11 ________________________________________ _______ Note: INCOMPLETE. I need your ideas and criticisms ( I admit I'm not thinking straight right now. Hey, look a penguin. What? Oh, yeah. Post away. I also need ideas for the mechanic book system, artifacts to put in it, and a better name for the mechanic book. and some other things I cant think of, probably because-hey, look a panda. What? oh yeah. I'm not thinking straight.:looloo: :twitch: :turkey:
TheBardicTraveller 05-05-04, 06:14 PM	Artificer preview (http://be.msnusers.com/LegendaryPoetsSociety/Documenten/Artificer%2Edoc?did=1&t=5*Y8fuamDSfeCOvQzLDzaXZ7Rj1VVyTiueKF 5Q7MghpjOjfNux3PfkuGOWE6wQw9u1Ilq3EkM* YBxkLFJkEw$$&p=5KzJhWqmXHe5v2MHMI1kndvH8gmCGRSnnb7lcY TnZoQgKuUxKJiKj0EO67!62CUCHcG7q9w1DxCc FXCDqX9BDul54NbBn45nWNyhV2mHgTm0ZH41UFsm FPyr8E0peW3M9fvqis2eCzWe!1aKHmj6ZGX9S1IZ UBxVqsZsnaFkA1Atg7n4ObqF5onFZqS2yyuvIn6 GPPvfbT1mZG8x5OWgI9htwx4!sG) Basing myself on the stuff you guys allready came up with, i created a class table for the artificer. Look it over, and plz tell me what you think.
Agent Graves 05-11-04, 06:30 PM	i was thinking, on the way into work, about a prestige class that uses the artificer and maybe a wizard. Basically its a time wizard with spells like haste and slow, hypnotize... the artificer part comes in because they'd have to make a fob watch and focus their power on the watch...
Silent_spy 05-11-04, 07:38 PM	I cannot read the page. Could you email it to me? I will send a pm Thanks in advance!
Silent_spy 05-19-04, 12:41 AM	Or, no thanks. anyway, spelling errors aside ( I tend to get online just about the time my brain falls asleep), the artificer is just about done. So we need to focus on stuff to make. A big component should be creatures, since artificers need things to do their fighting for them. I think they should have a d4 for hit dice because they are mechanical. Unlike organic creatures, there is little variation, so 4d4(4-16) better represents one than 2d10(2-20)heres my first entry: Clockwork pest tiny construct 1/2 1d4 hit dice (1hp) +0 15 feet AC 13 (+3 size) attacks: claws+2 melee 1d4-3 2.5/2.5/0 - construct ref+0, will+0 str5, dex10, con-, int 4, wis 10, cha 2 listen+2, spot+2, search+2, hide+5, move silently+2 anywhere solitary or swarm (10-100) CR 1/6 you may need to look at the moster manual to know what some of these are, but hey. It works. create artifact DC 23. creation cost 10 gold. creation time 3d4 hours. (concentration check and a stable place to work required to work while traveling) Limit 4 at one time. ( to prevent massive swarming. This we do not like: "okay, my 3000 pests move in on the great wyrm...yay! I win! say, how much experience does a level 3 get for a cr 21 monster?") This also reflects the inability to control massive numbers of creatures. this is my inspiration: nuisance engine The pests are like insects...but with four legs. Hey, they're constructs, they can be whatever the inventor wants.
TheBardicTraveller 05-19-04, 11:21 AM	Is it not so that constructs have an Constitution score, but no Intelligence score?
Silent_spy 05-20-04, 05:34 PM	No, that is not true. Could you have possibly looked it up before that useless spam-like post? Some of the D&D constructs can be listed here. For example, Iron Golem. However, changes need tobe made on creation methods. To keep it fair, iron golems(Bosh, Iron Golem oxxida golem )material costs should remain the same. If anyone has a monter manual II, I believe there are some good constructs in there as well. I've only ever seen one browsing through a bookstore, I did not buy it.
Agent Graves 05-20-04, 06:03 PM	maybe the limit should be four at one time... just coz you can only have four of one card in a magic deck what do u reckon? otherwise, your pest is a good idea. What does the pest actually look like? is it like a mouse? what other clockwork constructs are you thinking of? will they all be called 'clockwork' coz it has a nice ring to it
Silent_spy 05-28-04, 12:05 AM	Pest tokens (from the linked card) arent clockwork in the game, but they should be so they are. Plus I needed a name and 'pest' just isn't good enough. also, sorry for my absence. I think i signed on on someone elses computer so i didn't get any subscription messages or something...whatever. Point is I didn't know I was getting responses. Now back to the world Just about everything will be clockwork. I put clockwork before pest only because of the name, but here is a list of cards for you to look at: clockwork dragon clockwork condor clockwork vorrac clockwork beetle those are all the clockwork cards i can come up with. Now, I dont mean to surprise or overwhelm you with a massive number of cards, but if you look at the mirrodin, darksteel, or fifth dawn sortable spoiler lists and search for 'artifact creature', you will get so many listings you'll go crazy. Then you consider that those cards are only from THREE sets, and there are around 35. Plus Promo cards. Like I said, didn't mean to scare you. I'll post the links in a sec. edit: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/cardlist/fifthdawn http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/cardlist/darksteel http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/cardlist/mirrodin
Silent_spy 05-28-04, 12:31 AM	Am I a spammer now too? oh well. Sue me. At least I have content. Because of the inherently INCREDIBLY MASSIVE number or possible artifacts, I propose a guideline for conversions. for example, in magic, I dont think you can get a naturally occuring power or toughness of greater than 13. Please correct me if you can, I find it difficult to research due to my laziness. I am listing averages here. A power of 1 should be 2.5-3.5 damage, a power of 2 4.5-5.5 damage, and so on. I dont know about hit points yet, it is more complicated. by this system, darksteel collosus would average 14 damage, probably a roll od 2d12+1. I believe the current D&D system is far more complicated that it should be and at the same time no better than first edition D&D, but that is only my opinion and I play 3'rd edition anyway. Theres no way I'm forking over more money for 3.5 though. you'd think their 300 playtesters would have told them the problems with 3'rd before I payed 100 bucks for the core rule books and the extra stuff. I'm rambling. This system should be much easier to invent than the stats for 1000 constructs.
Agent Graves 05-28-04, 01:58 AM	well, that is alot of clockwork... there is certainly alot of range for the artificer i'm not good with damage etc, so i'll let other ppl work that out. good work Silent_spy do u think there would be other things... not just clockwork animals the artificer would make? like a mechanical leg, or hand...
Silent_spy 05-30-04, 07:07 PM	artificer can certainly make more than clockwork critters. There are some cool not creature artifacts that i think can translate well to the artificers abilities (perhaps with a mix of wizard/sorcerer spells) pyrite spellbomb necrogen spellbomb AEther spellbomb sunbeam spellbomb lifespark spellbomb But artificers can certainly make more than spellbombs. Another idea I have for artificers is a magical enegy source that powers the artifacts. We'll call it an energy core for now, even though 'energy core' sounds lame. Most artificers in magic cast spells (almost everybody in magic casts spells), so they should get some weak arcane abilities along with the artifact crafting stuff. Most of the spells should concern artifacts, to keep wizards from getting jealous. For example, a spell to make energy cores.
Agent Graves 05-30-04, 07:30 PM	the energy source... is that basically a magical battery? do you think it would have a period of working time?
Silent_spy 05-30-04, 07:43 PM	yes and yes. And another idea i have is random malfunctions, to keep things interesting. For example, artificer makes a clockwork dragon. dragon gets hit in the head wioth boulder. dragon goes crazy. dragon bites off artificers head. For random malfunctions, use this: when a construct is hit roll 1d100. if you roll a 1, it goes crazy and kills anything it can until it...well... cant anymore.