Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Agent Graves 04-12-04, 08:03 PM	I have submitted a description of the Cascades. A dense forest, that is supplied with water from the nearby mountian range. The second race live on the floor of the cascades. The floor of The Cascades doesn't get much light because of the dense canopy above. Its also very moist. The cascades themselves are many worm-like rivers, rapids, streams and creeks, that wind their way through the forest. Originally i thought about a race that was like the Herglic from starwars RPG, but in the end i though that humans, like the amazons or american indians could like here.
ArcboundColossus 04-13-04, 07:28 PM	I think we should give the river people traits that resemble the merfolk.
Brknlf 03-23-05, 01:38 PM	I had read this briefly before, but wasn't familiar with the Herglic and I thought there wasn't much information to go off originally. Following the_one_true_shea's lead, I decided to give this more consideration. I realize now that Agent Graves was probably slightly sparse in the hopes of others contributing and I apologize for only contributing to this now. Even though this thread is designed for discussion of one of the two races that exist in the Cascades, I'm gonna throw out some ideas on both races. I think the_one_true_shea has found a union between the Ithawu and the Cascades. With this thread, I believe you're referring to the aquatic race you had mentioned (the 1st race being the tree dwellers). I have looked at the Herglic a little, the sketches seem something like a freshwater dolphin race (humanoid with a nostrils on their heads like dolphins to suggest they live in the water but breathe air regularly via lungs). These Herglic appear strong and lumbaring, much like a lot of the aquatic races in Star Wars (The Aqualish and the Quarren are both prime example of strong, brutish aquatic types). What if the aquatic/floor/river dwelling race was more based off a slender type amphibian, such as a salamander or newt. I don't mean like another race of lizardmen or reptile based creature, just a few concepts borrowed from them. They look more human-like than alien. Perhaps flatter heads though, with eyes and nostrils on the same level (like amphibians or alligators/crocodiles). This would suggest their love/affinity for the water and their need to breath air through lungs instead of gills like fish. Their hands would not be webbed, or only slightly webbed, but their fingers would be larger to help them grab surfaces in the rivers underwater (instead of swimming through the water, they stick mostly to the surfaces for faster transportation - though they are more than capable of swimming freely). They are shorter than average human height, perhaps 4 feet on average. Their skin is generally a dark olive in color, or at least dark in color - they do live in dark regions of the world. There mouths and mouthes are also slightly larger than human while they have little of a nose other than, perhaps, protruding nostrils. They have a clear eyelid which is actually used more when out of the water to keep the eye moist. They would be hairless That's just a thought. As for the tree dwelling race, what if they're sort of an offshoot of the amphibious river denizens? Something along the lines of an elf say - an elf being sort of midway transition between extravagent fey (pixies and sprites and such) and humans. The tree dweller appairs very human like, except for a few traits of the amphibious floor dwelling race (such as slender fingers, large finger tips, or flatter aquatic like nose). They keep the dark skin and have very fine/fair hair (light colors, white, silver, greyish, light light blonde, golden, etc.). Just some thoughts on this Cascade dwelling race.
the_one_true_shea 03-23-05, 06:27 PM	I can visualize the idea of the amphibian-esqu huminoids. Not amphibians per se, but the aquamarine cast to the skin. The only refrence for what is in my mind that I can think of is from horror movies. That "pallor of the dead" look, but not.. eh.. My idea is that: why should they be considered part "elf" or kinda "human"? They are the Ithawu. They are defined unto themselves. 5'-7' tall. Slender. Skin color ranging from dark seaweed green to pale pearl blue. I like the webbing, not pronounced, but that "remnant" webbing. Perhaps even a physical feature that is attractive/repulsive in the culture. "Wow, look at her webbing!" - Ithawu men say. They cant breath water but can swim (?swim speed D&D, Island walk M:tG?). The idea of the tree dwellers being of the same race is nice. Instead of two unrelated races living next to each other you have something of a progression. The Tree dwellers skin is green-brown, instead of green-blue. Thier fingers longer and lacking webbing. (?climb speed, forest walk?) There could be, if the cascades are exotic and large enough, a loss of communication between the two species. The tree Ithawu could have lived on the tops so long that they no longer remember/believe in their connection to the elder Ithawu. O.Y. I like the idea of their noses being on the top of the their foreheads. Large (lidless?) eyes. The elder Ithawu (floor dwellers) could have sharp teeth and razor claws. The canopy Ithawu (tree dwellers) could have flat teeth and lost their claws. Maybe? I gotta PM the agent see if I can get him over for comment.
Brknlf 03-24-05, 09:01 AM	My idea is that: why should they be considered part "elf" or kinda "human"? Sorry, I think this was a bad analogy on my part. I was trying to say their body type could remain nearly human on a somewhat recognizable level. I meant no weird stuff like tentacles for ears, bone plated and horned heads, eyes in their hands, 6 legs, jellyfish-like membrane skin or something else beyond human :) I like what your saying about the race and the correlation between the floor dwelling race being more amphibious with some monstrous type appearance (the teeth and claws). Also, the floor dwellers might have more exotic skin tone ranges. The tree dwellers might have the more subdue tones, as they live closer to the sun. I really like the variance of the two in relation to the swimming abilities of the floor race and the climbing abilities of the tree race. Something of a detail, but perhaps posture could be considered. A human standing upright rests naturally with hands at their sides, knucles turned outwards and thumb to the front of their bodies; likewise their feet generally face forward (up to a 45 degree angle for balance while standing at 'attention). What if their limbs were turned outwards more, their hands resting with palm almost forward in a natural standing position and their feet splayed at something of a 100 degree angle or so. Knees would be turned slightly more outwards as well. What this would do for them is give them the ability to use both bipedal and quadrapedal locomotion (walk on two legs with ease and go to all fours when necessary - the swimming variety would be on all fours when on the bottoms of the rivers and the climbing variety when climbing). I like the thought of the Cascades be very exotic and large. I think this was Agent Graves intention when he suggested the emmense waterfall (not only tall but very wide, like a big river) that literally feeds the majority of the cascades with its own run off. I don't know what climatic type of forest it is, but I'm imagining it being closer to a rain forest than anything else. What if the normal tree-life from our forests is kept but with one edition, a broad-leaf tree (normal for the rainforest) but closer on scale to the size of the sequioa (300 feet or so) or the Austrialian eucalyptus (the tallest recoreded is like 470 feet or something). There is a quote from this website (http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/OlgaVapnyar.shtml) that really seems fantastical; "So much "fog drip" condenses on a redwood's needles, branches and trunk that it waters the tree as well as the surrounding vegetation, playing a large role in creating and maintaining the ecosystem." If part of the Cascades forests includes a tall (400+ feet) broad-leaf tree, it could give it that its own special feeling. The trees becoming an essential part of the environment, both supporting homes of the sentient races (in the branches for the tree race and the roots (akin to mangrove trees) for the amphibious type race) and feeding the forest itself with the fog drip each morning. Hopefully Agent Graves is still around the boards.
the_one_true_shea 03-24-05, 11:19 AM	In wies and hickman's epic saga of the plane hopping haplo there is a world whose forests are massive. The inhabitants for the most part never saw the ground. Cities were built on the branches of trees, lakes rested in beds of moss, and metal was nearly unheard of. I'm not suggesting that the forests of the cascades are that huge. But, something of this idea would work with the tree top ithawu. They never descend deep down to the forest floor. They build civilized tree cities in the light of the sun. They consider the cascades floor, some 100 ft below the basements of their oldest buildings, to be a sort of hell/holy land. Perhaps even banishing criminals to the "dark depths" of the forest. The gargantuan trees are a really cool idea. I think they should almost half as wide as they are tall. They should have broad leaves and branches thick enough to build buildings on, with enough room left over for "roads" between. What if the name of the trees were, simply, Ithawu trees. Oooh, what if, unbeknownst to both floor and tree ithawu the trees are integral to both of their societies? The floor dwellers tuck their "primitive" huts into the protective roots of the trees while the tree dwellers hang their "civilized" cities on the massive branches. Further, intelligent trees? Or, each tree has an "ithawu spirit", a fey type being like a dryad, only more ... stately, more umm, like an oread than a dryad. O.Y. Agent Graves hasnt posted anything in a month...?
Brknlf 03-25-05, 09:51 AM	I have read through the deathgate cycle. The interesting thing about the jungle world (Pyrin I think) was that is was the world of fire (when the elements were sundered by the Sartans). I thought that an interesting concept by Wies and Hickman (much like the lava world was the sundered earth element world). I don't know of the trees should grow with a massive girth (half as wide as they are tall). However, I do agree that they should have a diameter larger than our worlds trees - perhaps something in the range of 10 meters for an average tree (about 30's diameter at its base) up to maybe 15 meters for some of the truly ancient trees of this species. I like the thought of the trees being integral to both societies (much as it should be integral to the ecosystem of the forest itself). I really like the idea of one of the Ithawu spirits (I think their world is full of the belief in spirits and such) being associated in some context with the trees, or a fey creature even. Going back to the idea if one god existing and other gods being formed via the belief of woshippers (possibly even an aspect of the one true god) - these trees could be infused by the god or the belief of the Ithawu or Cascades Dwellers so that there is indeed a spirit within the tree itself.
the_one_true_shea 03-25-05, 06:49 PM	When I said half as wide as they are tall, I was refering to the branches reach. Im not sure I that was clear on that. I think a different way to describe the idea would be thusly: I see trees that are hundreds of feet tall, with branches that extend out a hundred feet or more. These trees are not side by side. Entire groves of other tree types can exist between two of them, but still their branches reach each other. Similarly with the roots. The roots these trees have are literal hills and caves on the cascades floor. Some arching over tributaries like bridges. Some are so covered in moss, with lesser trees growing out of them, that they are mistaken for the ground. Most ithawu trees roots reaching out to entertwine with their brother trees roots. Hmmmm, Brother Tree... :g::g::g:2 Summon Ithawu Tree Wall Brother Tree gives all Ithawu +0/+2 2:u: Search your library for an Ithawu with :u: in it's casting cost and put it into play. 2:g: Search your library for an Ithawu with :g: in it's casting cost and put it into play 2:u::g: Search your library for a Brother Tree and put it into play. 0/1 The idea for this card being, if you have four out. Your Ithawu are "on their home turf/in a forest full of brother trees". They strengthen/reinforce each other. ... O.Y. Thats my first serious attempt at a magic card :w00t:
Agent Graves 04-13-05, 11:16 PM	You guys are fantastic :D You've created beautiful imagery there. Needless to say i'm still here, more of a troll than anything, but the two of you have rekindled my interest in the WCP. I'll have to go and read up on the Ithawu but I love the idea. I'll post more ideas when i read more. otherwise the cascades sounds like a fantastic place.
the_one_true_shea 05-13-05, 02:32 PM	You originally spoke of a thick canopy. Me and Brklf went bigger I think, did we? Did you originally think the cascades as being as the redwoods only unto the redwoods? The ithawu race is pretty neat, ive beeen thinking of stuff. Thought in brain sometime have to get cued foor other things, Like to post more, but im like 80hrs aweek busy lately. I have this tribal versus tree house mental image. its perkolating.
Agent Graves 05-19-05, 12:03 AM	Ofcourse the inhabitants build their dwellings with the trees in mind, nothing that will harm the tree beyond repair. i was thinking shamanistic culture, lots of jump from branch to branch, climbing, magical tattoos. What sort of weapons do they have? wooden only? shields, rope and hook? bows, wooden swords? surely there are some people who have ventured to the earth and brought back metals... I'd like to include something along the lines of giant eagle riders.
the_one_true_shea 05-20-05, 02:24 PM	I think it would be an interesting theme to turn the tech and civility level on its head. The floor dwellers are closer to things like ore, stone, and hydrokenetic power. So their technology level could be higher than the tree dwellers, that have a more "advanced" society, but are technologically using wooden weapons, animals for transport (like the eagles, how about packsloths?), and are more ecologically concerned. There is a pending -savage tech environmental analogy there. In the future the floor dwellers could be damaging the trees with thier industrial waste or something, but I i dont know if that theme fits in very well with the fantasy. I would prefer to keep the trees and the ithawu working together harmoniously. Not the canopy dwellers are "good for the trees" and the floor dwellers are "bad for the trees". We could even say that what industrial waste is produced is good for the trees - or that the shamas of the floor dwellers are using magic to make it so. I got this hanging city idea, but Im also thinking of the these trees with really long branches. personal note hehe, work is so slow, ahhh, just took a call while typing, now for another golden thirty, 14 new people got added to my cue yesterday, so even though the team is staying really busy, I actually am not getting anycalls! Whooot! And! Even though most message board sites got locked this week, since I havent been posting lately, they didnt block D&D! whew, lucky me, they look at the net activity or whatever ( .not a netguru) and surf block sites that people actually loginto and send forms and stuff, no webmail at all, and message boards are blocked if they are too busy (from our side not theirs), but Im the only one here that would have hit D&D enough for them to block it (and I was told that the activity I had in the training class was nearly enough to get the boards1.wizards.com site blocked all by my lonesome). So if I spontaniously start posting only on tuesday and the weekend, they blocked me. The rest of the time - im fending off the "drool-monkeys (it really is a term of endearment 'you cant blame them, they're drool monkeys')" that need to be told "yes you have a start button, it says start, uh huh, yeah a menu pops up, isnt that cool, and look it says your name too. now click run, uh huh, and type MSCONFIG..." The great ones are the guys that say picked instead of clicked, I almost bust up every time someone tells that they picked the start button, or they double picked setup.exe. You might ask - how is it that you are so "busy" shea? the other people are apparently posting enough to get websites blocked. Well, most of those guys are shwingers - docushwingers, "I'll email you this document and you follow the steps in it and then give us a call back and tell us what happened, ok bye." Bastiches, drool-monkeys cant read tech documents! the program comes with installation instructions! They are calling in to have someone tell them what to do! yeesh! Costs flipping 40 bucks too!
Rny2 05-20-05, 04:35 PM	maybe some natural pollution like volcanic ash could peroidically float into this areaa (the Cascades)
the_one_true_shea 05-25-05, 07:17 PM	How far north is the cascades? How close to the Rizwell? ;) There is no paradise environment. Everywhere has its own "miserable" weather. Whats the problem with the cascades? Monsoons? There is a mountin range near enough for there to be a massive pair of waterfalls so volcanic activity is certainly feasable.. im just not certain that the ash storms really aligns with the cascadian feel. But what does.. ?
Amrien 06-04-05, 05:11 PM	How far north is the cascades? How close to the Rizwell? ;) There is no paradise environment. Everywhere has its own "miserable" weather. Whats the problem with the cascades? Monsoons? There is a mountin range near enough for there to be a massive pair of waterfalls so volcanic activity is certainly feasable.. im just not certain that the ash storms really aligns with the cascadian feel. But what does.. ? Well, it really sounds a lot like a RAIN forest to me. Heheh. Or at least a very nice swamp. I'd put my money on ya know... Rain? :D
the_one_true_shea 06-14-05, 03:48 PM	I would imagine that rain falls on the cascades rather regularly .. though the theory of there being no rain is not impossible either. Hadnt thought of this till I read your post - There could be no rain. The water comes from the rivers -> theres two. The trees gather water and the fruits are the water supply for the animals that live in the upper canopy. Where this the case there would be almost and entire atmospheric system beneath the middle canopy (presuming again) that contains most of the moisture of the rivers (and tributary streams) making the bottoms just as moist and damp as we have been describing. This could add an additional reason to the visual descrepancy between the canopy and floor dwellers (the canopy inhabitants are "tanned"). This could make Rain. Real rain, thick unseasonable "unnatural" rain into a serious weather hazard.
Ashtaroth 07-09-05, 08:24 PM	How about inverting the idea of who's more advanced? The tree dwellers diet contains less protein and their brains are slightly less developed than the floor dwellers. They're not animals, but they're not as smart as humans. The floor dwellers on the other hand are both smarter and more spiritual, they have a special connection to water spirits as well as tree spirits. Maybe the two species rely on one another for breeding. Because of their common heritage they share similar reproductive systems -- they both lay eggs which must be treated in the same way. It takes four months for an egg to hatch. For the first two months the shells are soft and vulnerable to river-born parasites and predators so the eggs are kept high in the trees. For the last two months the eggs harden and can be brought down, which they have to be because children of both races are born without the ability to breath air, but instead develop this over the first few weeks of their life, at which point they are cared for by their respective societies. This need to care for eggs in two different ways might explain why the one race evolved into two different races.