Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bandido 06-29-03, 03:07 PM	As he's been gone long enough, I am usurping Uncle Mikey's elemental elves. :devil: I've got one type of elf here, in D&D format. I don't know how exciting they are, but give them a look and see what you think. Earth elves (Basini) Can you feel it? The tide of ley...flowing towards the sea. Basini are the least elemental of the elves, and many people think them to be human. They do not have the otherworldliness of the water elves, the bizarreness of the fire elves, or the alien attitude of the air elves...they're, well, normal. As such, they get on with other races better than all other elven races. Personality: The peronality of the average basan can be decribed in one word: earthy. They are relaxed, open, often blunt, and always cheerful. This attitude is found refreshing by some, who tire of the human habit of dressing things up, while many others find it unbearably annoying. They are also possessed of great common sense. Physical description: Basini are shorter than humans, averaging around 5 ft tall. They have black skin, and long legs for their height. They have a habit of wearing bright orange clothes, as the dyes needed grow in their homeland. Their clothes are often large, loose robe-type affairs, but they tend to wear a lot less in the evenings, when they find it unnecessary to protect themselves from the sun. Relations: The Basini get on with everyone, except air elves, who they consider to have their head in the clouds, and fire elves, who they consider to be depraved, and dark fairies, whose tricksome ways are well known to the earth elves. However, they are willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and judge everyone on their individual benefits. They get on well with dwarves, who often have similar attitudes. Alignment: Basini are nearly always either Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. Their nomadic lifestyle means that the elaborate codes of conduct that the more bourgeois city-folk develop have never taken hold, and their only law is to do what the elders say before they get punished! Generally, they act to protect and help their tribe. Basini Lands: Basini live in small nomadic tribes on large savannah areas. They travel round, and live off the lands, and claim no territory, finding the concept somewhat distasteful. They tend to live only in areas which don't contain many settled peoples, as trying to live near settled peoples tends to lead to conflict which usually ends up in the Basini being driven off. In these areas, there are usually lots of nomadic humans too, and the Basini will trade with them. Religion: The Basini generally venerate the earth, and its ability to nourish everything that lives on it. They are not typical worshippers of the elven pantheon, and there are few clerics among them, but they most often worship Yewinae, Pineleia, and Nainrei, and rarely worship Sernyea, Trifnei, Virfilan, Rewuil, or Urugai. Language: Basini speak their own language, Basini, which is similar to other elven languages, and others find it sound flowing. It shares many features with Clinestra (a fact which is generally unadvisable to point out to Basini), although it does not use the same alphabet. Names: Basini elders name all children in the tribe, and each Basan has one name. They also use their tribes to identify themselves, speaking of themselves as 'X of the tribe Y'. Personal names rarely have more than two syllables; tribe names seldom have less than three. Male names virtually always end in 'i', 'u', 'm', or 'n', while female names virtually always end in 'a', 'o', and 'if'. Tribe names typically end in 'as' or 'bu', but this rule is not as absolute as those for the individual names. Male names: Abi, Adu, Anan, Anu, Bidam, Binu, Dali, Danu, Dilam, Finam, Guni, Inu, Kanam, Kidu, Kimu, Mamu, Nanam, Nini, Panu, Tinu. Female names: Abo, Adif, Ana, Bana, Bido, Binif, Dilif, Duno, Duma, Fima, Funo, Gado, Gala, Kala, Kalif, Kino, Kunif, Mano, Nanif, Pada, Pano, Tanif, Tinu. Tribe names: Adalas, Aminas, Dadabas, Ekibu, Falabas, Fanabu, Inono, Nananas, Nuladas, Panabu, Tananas. Adventurers: Adventuring Basini are usually those who want to wander the world, and see more of the earth. They typically seek experience, not riches, power, or fame. These Basini are disapproved of by most others, who see them as shirking the responsibilities to their tribe, but the elders tolerate this wanderlust; in fact, most elders are the ones who left and returned, having garnered new insight. Basini racial traits: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution: Basini, like all elves, are agile, but their builds are flimsy, and weak. Unlike all other elves, Basini are filled with earthy common sense. Medium sized: As medium-sized creatures, Basini have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Basini base speed is 30 ft. +1 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks: Basini have acute senses. Favoured Class: Ranger. Well, whaddaya think?
Dream Spinner 06-29-03, 04:37 PM	<Applauds> How do you do all this work? We make up a bunch of stuff and dump it all on you to make up the official stats and stuff. Plus, you make your own ideas. :bow: This sounds good, and it seems that you focus more on the intangible side of the Elven gods. For example, Urugai, god of stone. But you see him as god of law and put him in the rarely-worshiped part. Are you gonna make all the elemental elves? If so, water elves-can they breathe underwater, or do they like live in huge air-filled caves underwater, or do they like live on beaches?
WizO_Iyala 06-29-03, 05:24 PM	:OMG! And please note that is the first and probably last time I'l ever use that smilie but that's incredible, Bandido! The idea of elemental elves is really, really, really cool. Just stop making them with black skin, okay ;) and orange... hmmmmm.... if you don't mind I might try drawing/painting one at some point? When you say people think of them as human, is that in their attitudes and behaviour or do they look human? Once again, Bandido, very well done :)
Bandido 06-29-03, 05:49 PM	:blush: :blush: :blush: Thanks, really. I'm glad you liked them. :bounce: Dream Spinner: I focussed on the intangible side of the gods because it seemed more appropriate. There are two earth-oriented gods in the elven pantheon you've detailed, Urugai and Pineleia, and of those two, Pineleia seemed to be the more in tune with the Basini's outlook. As for water elves, I was thinking of making them amorphous - they don't only live in the water, they are water. Their forms would barely be solid, and they would find it almost impossible to hold themselves together on land. When they die, they would dissipate into the ocean.... Does that seem good? They'd be completely unsuitable for D&D characters, but you could get some interesting Magic cards out of them, and meeting one would be a very odd, and exciting, experience. Iyala: Paint away! I can't take credit for the original idea of elemental elves - that was Uncle Mikey - but I doubt his earth elves would have been anything like this. As for human, they are human in behaviour, and human-like in appearance: they have human proportions, and aren't made out of water, and don't crumble into ashes when they die. The Basini are black as in African, not black as in asphalt like the Kabūri.
WizO_Iyala 06-29-03, 06:00 PM	Originally posted by Bandido I can't take credit for the original idea of elemental elves - that was Uncle Mikey Yeah but there's a big difference between saying "elemental elves" and all of that :) I like the idea of the water elves like that, I've been giving a lot of thought to my merthings and I think a well developed underwater culture would be very interesting indeed :) Thanks for the clarification on colour, of course that actually makes it about 10 times harder but at least I know what I should be starting with :)
Bandido 06-29-03, 07:09 PM	I liked the merthings. :D Anyway, here is another race, the air elves. I'm not sure about these - they seem a bit anime to me, but what do you think? Air elves (Alani) Alani (singular: Alin; adjective; Alanian) are genrally considered to be 'away with the fairies.' Long-limbed, spindly, distracted, thoughtful, and with an odd worldview, they baffle everyone else, and sometimes each other too. Personality: Air elves are hard-to-understand, concerned with seemingly insignificant things, detached. They often seem unfriendly, and can show unnatural passion towards their interests, and surprising dispassion towards things that don't interest them. Physical description: Alani are taller than humans, averaging around 6-and-a-half feet tall, with no appreciable height difference between the sexes. Their features are exaggerated; they have extremely long, ungainly-looking limbs, yet move with surprising grace; their bodies look almost emaciated, yet their heads are large, with disproportionately large, slanted eyes, and huge, pointed ears. Their skin is very pale, and their hair runs the gamut from darkest black to palest blond, via bluish-shades unknown to other races. Their eyes are usually blue, of varying intensity, but some have green eyes. Relations: Alani get along with anyone who shares their interests, and who is willing to put up with them. Generally, they get on with humans more than ay other race. They do not get on with dwarves, who find them flighty and irresponsible, or Basini, who find them...flighty and irresponsible. Out of all surface races, only the air elves can tolerate the Shalendae for any appreciable amount of time. Alignment: Alani are typically Chaotic Neutral, as they are completely self-absorbed. They tend towards good more than evil, as they are essentially utilitarian, and would rather that there is more happiness than unhappiness. Alanian Lands: Alani live in loosely-organised countries in forests. They typically live as high up in trees as they can manage, so they can bask in the high winds, and be nearer to the sky. They usually forage and hunt for their food, and only hunt for as much as they can eat. Their leadership structure generally consists of the Alani who can be bothered arranging defence, diplomacy, and so on. This works surprisingly well; Alani, while on the whole being lazy, show unnatural focus on things they find interesting, and someone is bound to find organisational tasks interesting. Religion: The Alani favour Weyrein above all other elven gods, as he is a winged, rebellious air god. Other commonly worshipped gods are Virfilan, Rewuil, and Sernyea. Rarely worshipped are Urugai and Meria. Language: Alani speak their own language, Alanian, which is similar to the other elven languages. It is most similar to the language of the water elves, featuring many l's, s's, and n's. Names: Alani typically have 2 names; a childhood name and an adult name. Their childhood name is what they are called by their parents, but the Alani are nothing if not individualistic, and choose another name for themselves on attaining adulthood (which is whenever they decide to leave home; there is no set 'age of majority' amongst the Alani). They have no surname, or equivalent, as family ties are very weak. To outsiders, their names show very little obvious pattern when it comes to allotting names by sex, but the Alani appear to think otherwise. Often,a male name can become a female name by the inversion of two sounds, although which sounds, and in which position in the name, is not predictable. Their names tend to end in consonants or 'i'. Male names: Alalin, Ananes, Caladit, Ediles, Filiden, Gilidet, Nilis, Marades, Panisi, Sirinis, Sunilos, Telis. Female names: Ananis, Atina, Canilam, Elini, Eniles, Giliti, Inalan, Golatis, Nilit, Maladin, Onilan, Silinis, Sulinos, Tenis. Adventurers: Alani adventure for any number of reasons. Often they are curious about the rest of the world, or perhaps they want to acquire more power, or become rich, or gain fame, or pursue a particular goal of theirs - there are as many reasons as there are Alani. They are amongst the most common of adventurers, even if their strange attitudes do not lend themselves to working well in an adventuring party. Many Alani long for high places, and to be able to fly, so sojourns to mountains, and quests to find or capture flying beasts, are also very common. Alanian racial traits: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength: Alani have the agility common to all elves, but their thin, emaciated frames are far from robust, and they are weak, and ineffectual. Their unnatural focus makes them highly knowledgeable. Medium sized: As medium-sized creatures, Alani have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Alanian base speed is 30 ft. +2 racial bonus to Listen, Spot, Climb, and Balance checks: Alani have acute senses, and the agility needed to survive in their aerial environment. Undecipherable: Whenever someone makes a Sense Motive check to 'sense out' an Alin's motives, or whenever an Alin's Charisma-based check is opposed by someone's Sense Motive check, a -2 circumstance penalty is applied to the Sense Motive check. The odd way that Alani think truly is baffling. Trance (Ex): Instead of sleeping, Alani go into a state called trance. This state lasts four hours, and replaces the normal 8 hours of sleep needed by characters. Immune to magic sleep spells and effects. Alani are treated as being two sizes larger for the effects of wind on their bodies, as they are very aerodynamically shaped. +2 racial bonus to all saves against lightning effects: Being tall and living high up makes avoiding lightning paramount to the Alani's survival. Favoured Class: Sorceror.
Dream Spinner 06-29-03, 10:55 PM	Again, wonderful. I like that they look like they're ready to be blown away by the wind at any time. I also really like the intense focus on something if they like it. It's sorta like air flowing all over the world all the time, but occasionally, wind focuses into one area, blowing furiously. Originally posted by Bandido +2 racial bonus to all saves against lightning effects: Being tall and living high up makes avoiding lightning paramount to the Alani's survival. That's funny. I don't know why, but it is. :D May be even :rofl:-caliber. Your sig sure is. I like more cryptic/wise/I-don't-know sig's, which if you actually get to know me, you'd know is totally not like me. But anyway, so down there, I have a sig about making the most of your life.
Bandido 06-30-03, 04:18 PM	Thanks....:blush: :D I saw the quote that's my sig in a newspaper, and just had to yoink it. Anyway, I have an issue that needs addressing - with the elemental elves, do we really need to have normal elves in this world? I think no, for several reasons: The air elves are quite close in behaviour and environment to normal elves, so having both would cause significant overlap It seems illogical to me to have some elves that are elemental-based, and others that are not Many people dislike having multiple elven subraces, and having five would tip them over the edge What do you think?
WizO_Iyala 06-30-03, 07:35 PM	That's an important issue. It raises a few problems with Magic in that Air elves may be similar to existing D&D elves however the Air theme does not mesh well with Magic elves, which are almost exclusively green and a more earth-based race. Oooh... I'm having a thought.... Each Magic block has a theme of some sort (at least recently). An example of these are abnormal creature types, conentration on creatures, multi-colored cards etc. used in the three sets in the year. What if the theme for cards we made based on this world (at least for the first block ;)) was to push existing staple creature types such as elves, into other colours? It would be hard to work out what an Air elf might mena thematicly but it might be interesting to try. Especially if we were using odd enemy/friend combinations. Any thoughts?
Dream Spinner 06-30-03, 11:36 PM	But then, the elemental elves worship their elements. My gods are useless. That's my only problem with them. Otherwise, great idea! As for the M:tG aspect, we could keep the elves green, but with different coloured activation costs. The block would force green players to either mix in other colours, accepting the entire of Gaia's bounty, or use mana generators that generate different types of mana. Isn't green the most capable of gathering all types of mana? Following this idea, we could make green the strongest colour, but to take advantage of this new power, they would have to share with the other colours. Now, I'm completely off track and this green-strongest thing doesn't fit with this world, other than that Gaia is the only true divine being. :confused: :(
Bandido 07-01-03, 07:02 AM	I don't know about the air theme not meshing - there are certainly a fair few elves that have had abilities to do with hanging around in the tops of trees, such as treetop scout, and elves have had out-of-colour dalliances before, such as elves of deep shadow and elvish healer. As for pushing elves into unusual colours and using activated abilities in different colours, my first Kabūri card I did on Wollo's card editor used both of those ideas. :D Kabūri Chaosmage 1:b::b: :r:, :t:: Deal 2 damage to target creature :t:: Target player loses one life. 1/1 My M:tG addict friend thought that was about right cost-wise, but what do you think? Personally, I favour having elves with activated costs in different coloured mana, and abilities that trigger/are only useful if you have cards of another colour in play (in true Ice Age-style ;) ). They needn't (and, IMO, shouldn't) be stronger than other colours, but just only show their true strength when you are playing with other colours (i.e. Quirion elves and the aforementioned elvish healer). I think that works - it shows that although the elements are powerful when used separately, they become that much more powerful when you combine them. As for your worries about the elvish pantheon, Dream Spinner, I won't deny that my original idea was to have the elves just worship their element, but I like the gods you've made, and Weyrein is such a good match for the air elves. The gods fit well, even if a few of the gods (like Urugai) will be worshipped quite rarely. I think we should use them.
Bandido 07-01-03, 09:50 AM	And a card - is this too cheap? Weyrein's Disciples - Creature - Elf Cleric :g::g::u: Flying When Weyrein's Disciples comes into play, you may search through your library for another Weyrein's Disciples, and put it into your hand. Shuffle your library. 2/2 The air elves left the earth behind, and wandered through the sky.... I had some better flavour text, but it wouldn't fit. :(
Dream Spinner 07-01-03, 12:45 PM	A 2/2 flyer that gets other 2/2 flyers? For :g::g::u:, that's a lot for very little, even if it fetches other flyers. Plus, there's the fact that green hates flying. Besides, what makes you think Weyrein's clerics can fly?
Bandido 07-01-03, 01:52 PM	Well, I saw gaea's skyfolk and went from there. I know green hates flying, but it's blue as well, and blue likes flying. These aren't just ordinary clerics of Weyrein - these are supposed to be powerful clerics of Weyrein, and as he's a winged god of the air, it seemed appropriate that at some point they'd be able to fly, at least by using their magic.
Dream Spinner 07-01-03, 03:27 PM	The pic for that card is pretty. Let's see, here's a completely different Weyrein's Disciples: Weyrein's Disciples :g::g: Creature-Elf Cleric :t:: Untap target land. :g:, :t:: Untap 3 target lands. His call brings rainfall. 1/1 Okay, the flavour text is really for the short semi-rhyme. And another card: Lightning Channeler (2):g: Creature-Elf Cleric :t:: Deal 1 damage to target creature with flying. :g:, :t:: Deal 1 damage to each creature with flying. Clerics of Weyreins serve three purposes: callers of rain, aiders of artists, and lightning rods. 1/1
Leaves 07-01-03, 10:19 PM	I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but if you are making elemental versions of elves, are you going to do the same for all the other standard races? It's not that I don't like elves, but I like other races, too. If we are going to have earth elves, what is the justification for not having air dwarves and fire halflings and so forth? But I, at least, think it's a little crazy to have 4 to 5 different, equally common subraces for each core race. The other thing is that what you are doing might be taking away the elves as a core race for the D&D crowd. The two here look like they might be ECL +1, but what I'm more concerned with is that elves aren't traditionally associated with the elemental role, that's more like fey. The Alani mesh with core D&D elves stat-wise, but culturally they are completely different. Traditional D&D elves are deeply concerned with art and culture, and are often the inheritors of kingdom's stretching back 1000s of years, and the Alani don't seem like that to me at all. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/twocents.txt
WizO_Iyala 07-02-03, 03:27 AM	But does that matter? Although traditionaly elves would be interested in art & culture, I can't believe all elves everywhere would be, the other elements would simply represent those selves that did not follow the stereotype. Besides, although air elves might be the most traditional, I'm sure the other elemental races might represent other factions within elven society. I find it hard to believe that an entire race would be so narrow. And it need not take elves away as a core race, would there be a problem with treating the elements as an additional form of alignment to be chosen when a player picks a character? I realise the stats would be different from a traditional elf but would there be a reason not to use several subraces in place of one? Any rule that normally applies to elves would apply to the subraces unless it was contradicted by a rule inthe subrace in which case that would take priority. As for other races, the line has to be drawn somewhere. If we made elemental versions of every other race.... *shudders at the vision of fire cephalids* The only other elemental race I would really like to try out is elemental dragons. Stepping into MTG point of view for a moment, elves seem a little different to me than the D&D view so my perception of them may be a little out of step. To us, elves are particularly in tune with the world, they are connected to the forests n the way other races aren't. So might it not make sense that if the elves are in tune with the land and magic, they would have been changed by the elemental forces over time in a way that other races might not have been. They'd just be more atuned versions of elves. Where other races and characters might have elemental alignments, eleve might be the only race where that has been going on long enough and with the intensity which causes it to manifest physicaly.
Bandido 07-02-03, 09:21 AM	Dream Spinner: Nice cards; they look a bit overpowered to me, though, especially the second one that can deal 1 damage to each creature with flying on turn 3 with mana acceleration. Originally posted by Leaves I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but if you are making elemental versions of elves, are you going to do the same for all the other standard races? It's not that I don't like elves, but I like other races, too. If we are going to have earth elves, what is the justification for not having air dwarves and fire halflings and so forth? But I, at least, think it's a little crazy to have 4 to 5 different, equally common subraces for each core race. The other thing is that what you are doing might be taking away the elves as a core race for the D&D crowd. The two here look like they might be ECL +1, but what I'm more concerned with is that elves aren't traditionally associated with the elemental role, that's more like fey. The Alani mesh with core D&D elves stat-wise, but culturally they are completely different. Traditional D&D elves are deeply concerned with art and culture, and are often the inheritors of kingdom's stretching back 1000s of years, and the Alani don't seem like that to me at all. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/twocents.txt I wasn't planning on doing elemental versions of other races - I've always seen elves as being supernaturally in tune with their environment, and as there are elemental ley lines on this world, and elemental magic seeping through them, having elemental elves is just an extension of that. I was planning on having more sub-races of other races, though, just not elementally aligned ones. As for the LA of these races, I think the Alani are no more powerful than Grey elves (they don't get the free weapon proficiencies in bows and rapier or longsword, the ability to sense secret doors, the bonus to Search checks, the bonus to saves against enchantment effects, or the immunity to ghoul's touch, and instead get bonuses to Climb and Balance, impose penalties to other people's Sense Motive checks, and get a +2 to saves versus lightning, as well as a token ability to be treated as two sizes larger for the effects of wind, which I doubt will ever come up in a campaign), but you may be right about the Basini. The Grey elves in Kingdoms of Kalamar get +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Con, and a +2 to Knowledge (Arcana), and have LA 0 . I suppose you could say that Charisma and Int have fewer uses than Wis and Dex, and therefore the Basini are overpowered...what would you do to balance them, and keep the flavour? A Cha penalty spring to mind, but that would make them very like dwarves.... As for culturally, many people complain about the elves culture and alignment in D&D. They tend to be associated with century-old kingdoms, and art and their culture, despite the fact that these are lawful traits and they are generally Chaotic. In fact, in the PHB, it says that the typical elf does not come from one of these ancient kingdoms, but instead from a small clan in a woodland who forage and hunt for food - that seems to fit the Alani quite well. But fire cephalids...now there's a thought....:P
Dream Spinner 07-02-03, 03:57 PM	So, are we, or are we not keeping regular elves? If we don't, which type of elf tends to the trees directly, not just live amoung the tops of them, which the Alani does? The only problem I have with using only the elemental elves is that this greatly weakens Urugai, which I expected to be one of the stronger gods, as D&D elves are often orderly, distant, and xenophobic. As for the water elves, they are liquid that are magically (?) bound into separate entities and this magic dissipates at death, releasing the liquid into the sea. Okay, I can see problems with that for D&D, but work as a strange replacement for blue's main race in this world's special block. Also, do they have organs, or are they like oozes? How do they breed, talk, etc? Do they breathe? What do they eat? Do they drink?
Leaves 07-02-03, 06:35 PM	To us, elves are particularly in tune with the world, they are connected to the forests n the way other races aren't. So might it not make sense that if the elves are in tune with the land and magic, they would have been changed by the elemental forces over time in a way that other races might not have been. I wasn't planning on doing elemental versions of other races - I've always seen elves as being supernaturally in tune with their environment, and as there are elemental ley lines on this world, and elemental magic seeping through them, having elemental elves is just an extension of that. I see where you are coming from, I suppose. D&D elves have always been kinda pulled in two directions: the nature-loving, forest-inhabitting ranger types, and the high-culture wizard types. Accentuating only one of the themes in our world would be fine with me. As to whether or not we include standard elves, too, I would be against it. If you are going to have an idea, I say go with it all the way. I have another idea, though: suppose we replace the D&D standard elves with gnomes? Gnomes in D&D have always been pulled in two directions (tinkerer/steampunk and nature-loving) so this would give them a more unified theme. Gnomes would be the supreme scientists, the expert architects, inventers, medics, alchemists, and mathematicians of the world. They would also be concerned with attuning themselves to the environment, but unlike the elves, they would come at it from a technological perspective, building cities that merge so seemlessly with the natural surroundings that you would never know they were there until you were right in the midst of them. They would also carefully protect their knowledge, because they wouldn't trust any other race not to misuse it. Hmmm, maybe I ought to start a gnome thread.... Dream spinner, I'll go look at the gods thread, but maybe Urugai could be chief of the gnomish pantheon instead? As to my comments about ECLs of the elemental elves, they look more balanced on second perusal, but I still have concerns. I know that the designers have been reluctant to give bonuses to mental stats to a PC race because a high mental stat means so much more for a spellcaster than a high physical stat does for a fighter. But with the alani having a bonus to INT, combined with a Sorceror favored class, it creates an interesting dynamic, because an Alani who goes with wizard basically cannot multiclass (who ever heard of a Wiz/Sor multiclass? Even if it does let you use forbidden scrolls...) Not that a wizard wants to multiclass anyway. I'm more concerned about the Basini, because even though the net +2 stats are easily balanced with the fact that their only other bonus is essentially half of a feat, they just... seem kinda boring. I much prefer a race to have a series of bonuses/penalties that gives you some idea what they are like, how to play them. They would make a great ranger, with the DEX and WIS bonuses. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafcool.txt
WizO_Iyala 07-02-03, 07:37 PM	Um, I know this is pretty technical stuff but I'm feeling swamped by all the D&D terms. Could you try to explain the issues or not use so many confusing abreviations if possible please. I'm only on page 32 :) What are the implications of scrapping the sort of basic elf?
Leaves 07-02-03, 11:13 PM	http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafblush.txt I can see where you might be getting confused. Sorry. I brought it up, too. Okay, STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, and CHA are simply abbrviations for the six abilities, strength, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. They are used quite often, even in the books, and by those of us who cannot be trusted to spell big words like "charisma". The classes have standard abbrviations, too. When I said wiz/sor, I meant a character multiclassed between wizard and sorceror. ECL and LA are related concepts (they can kinda be used interchangably). Basically, the core races in the player's handbook are designed so that characters will all have the same power level if they are at the same character level. That's fine most of the time, but if you have a person who wants to play a flying pixie that can turn invisible all the time, they will be more powerful than the rest of the party. Enter the ECL: equivalent character level. Pixies have an ECL +4, which means that a 1st level pixie cleric fits right into a party of 5th level characters, and everyone is about the same power level, so everyone has fun. (LA=level adjustment, a concept introduced in Savage Species to help calculate the ECL of more powerful monsters.) As to why it matters that we have traditional elves or something like them, I know at least Uncle Mikey on the old boards was talking about elven kingdoms. Ancient, advanced, highly-cultured elven kingdoms are mainstays of Tolkein and of Forgotten Realms, and lots of people are attached to the concept. I think it is important to consider who will have possesion of the highest technology and culture in the world. It's the people you always go to when you have a problem to solve, right before you start asking the gods. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafwink.txt
nick012000 07-03-03, 05:22 AM	is it just me, or do air elves seem to be somewhat autistic? that would probably incur a CHA penalty.
Bandido 07-03-03, 09:09 AM	Okay, I think we should go with just the elemental elves, so if no one else has a problem with that, then let's do it! Dream Spinner: I thought the water elves would have organs, but there wouldn't be much subtance to them - they'd be like jelly-like, almost, and not properly solid. For some reason, I'm getting visions of The Abyss (great film, btw). They wouldn't need to drink, as they live underwater, and, as for eating, maybe they could filter-feed (well, if they're liquid, it would be more just absorbing rather than filtering), or they could hunt fish and other things. They'd talk like other races, but their unusual body formation would mean that they sound very odd to surface-dweller's ears. As for breeding, I thought of having normal breeding for a race, but maybe they could breed by splittting into 'daughter-elves' like an amoeba. That sounds a bit too weird for me, though. The Alani would have to tend to the trees to some extent, or they wouldn't be living in the tops of them for very long ;). As for Urugai, why not have him as a falling god? Perhaps the prestige he enjoyed in the past has disappeared, and his influence atrophied, as the earth elves became less elemental and more human, and stopped worshipping him. This could make him a very bitter god, and quite likely to act to try and regain his former power. His machinations could be the basis of a good D&D campaign, as the player characters try to stop his scheming from disrupting everything, and from starting a war between deities. Does that sound okay? Leaves: I'm perfectly happy with gnomes fulfilling the role normally filled by D&D elves - it will give them a point, which they lack in most D&D campaigns. If you start a gnome thread, I will gladly contribute. :D As for the mental stat bonus, another reason they were loath to give them out is because the only race that mental stat bonuses were ever considered for was gnomes, and they didn't want all spellcasters of a particular type to be gnomes. And, in the case of the Alani, the Con penalty will be a large discouragement from playing a wizard (or a sorcerer for that matter). And people do play Wiz 1/Sor X occasionally as an extremely cheap way of gaining access to Loremaster as a Sorcerer. I don't think it's that effective personally (a Wiz/Loremaster is better in every way), but people do it. I see what you mean about the Basini. I'l try and make them a bit sexier. nick012000: Maybe they do seem a bit autistic, but it would be incredibly cruel to give a race with a favoured class of sorcerer a Cha penalty. And I thought that to many people they would be intriguing because they seem otherworldly and unusual.
Dream Spinner 07-03-03, 12:58 PM	OK, so the water elves are like oozes and stuff, a jelly-type of creature, but sentient and they have organs. That means that they are capable of being hit by a critical strike, then, right? Jello that breeds normally. Hm. In death, the ooze substance turns into regular water. Okay. <nods> Okay. Yeah. It seems that the water elves are closest to their element, I guess, and the fire elves are most fanatic about their element, I think. Urugai doesn't scheme or plot. He's completely loyal to the law. He is the law. He may be sad he's lost power, but he doesn't become bitter and vengeful. He doesn't deal in vengeance, he deals in justice. Although, we could make it so that Trifnei, unknown to her good self, plagues Urugai with madness. He resists it, as the powerful, sturdy god he is, but he can't hold it off forever....
WizO_Iyala 07-03-03, 07:06 PM	I know this might be an odd analogy but I can imagine water eleves having a similar consistancy to those gel wrist rests you can get. Squishy by not insubstantial. If they were too jelly-like they'd have trouble interacting with other objects at all even to the point of getting broken up by large waves. Which seems a little icky :S Maybe they could have selective solidity if they wanted, that would be fun :) Although the splitting thng seems a little weird, maybe they'd breed through merging, they'd join their bodies first for some length of time (a few days?) and both emerge changed. Each would incubate a part of the child and they would merge again for a day or two for the two half-entities to form a single water elf. And I agree about abyss, I love that film. Thanks for the explanation, leaves :) some of the stuff I could work out, the rest went totally over my head, either way the abreviations are strange foreign enough to me that although I could work some of them out in isolation, put into a sentence they utterly confused me :) So roughly translated, elemental elves might be over powered except the Basini who are a bit plain?
Bandido 07-04-03, 10:31 AM	Okay, here are the water elves! I'm not sure about them - they might be a bit too much like the air elves, personality-wise, but have a look, and tell me what you think. Water elves (Inuli) Inuli (singular: Ilan; adjective; Inuli) are the strangest of the elves, and the closest to their element. Formerly common, and often to be heard singing all in oceans the world over, they have recently become scarce. Whether they have started to find communion with their element, or whether some catastrophe has occurred, is not yet known. Personality: Water elves are often a bit distracted, yet sometimes have unnatural focus, and remind some people of the air elves. However, just as water is more solid than air, Inuli are less flighty than their cousins the Alani. One thing that marks the Inuli out is their persistence; just as water will wear away the largest rock over time, so do the Inuli persevere until they succeed. The Inuli, unlike the Alani, are also quite sedate, and not prone to excitement - others often find them dispassionate and cold. However, although it can take a lot to make an Ilan angry or excited, their passionate emotions are usually very strong - sailors often say that water elves call up storms if you anger them, which isn't literally true (most of the time), but storm is a good description of a water elf's anger. Physical description: Inuli are average around 5 1/2 ft tall, with no appreciable height difference between men and women. Their skin is blue, and they have bright blue eyes and blue hair. They are slightly translucent, and feel slightly jelly-like to the touch. In fact, if you push on the skin of an Ilan, it will give, although the Ilan will not appreciate you for doing this! Relations: Inuli get on tolerably with anyone, although many people are initially afraid of their unusual forms, and later annoyed by their coldness. They often meet with Alani explorers, as the Alani are keen to meet these odd relations of theirs. They have frequent dealings with merthings, although these are somethimes violent. Inuli detest the Kabūri, and these creatures are one of the few things that can really raise an Inuli's ire. Alignment: Inuli are usually Neutral Good. They are concerned with the wellbeing of each other, but have no typical view towards law and chaos. Inuli Lands: Inuli live in the ocean pretty much anywhere they want; the closer they become to their element, the less they seem to have mortal needs like sleep or food. Generally, they just float about, and play, unless they have something to do. They seem to cluster around the shore to sing to the surface dwellers at night, and in ancient underground ruins at night, where they keep their literature and treatises. Some Inuli craft strange objects out of shell and coral, and these objects are highly prized by humans, who trade with the Inuli for what they want (typically odd foods, and scrolls, specially treated to be water-resistant). Religion: The Alani favour Virfilan above all other elven gods, as he is not only the god of water, but also has a contemplative outlook, and the Inuli have a lot of time for contemplation. Aslo commonly worshipped is Meria, and her priests rescue the drowning, and summon will o'the wisps to light the way for ships on dark nights, or if a lighthouse goes out. Lirane, Rewuil, and Sernyea are also commonly worshipped, but Heril is worshipped extremely rarely. Language: Inuli speak Inuli, which is a typical elven language, sounding flowing, and containing lots of n- and l-sounds (and r-sounds and w-sounds, which is less typical). It sounds like Alani, and is perfectly comprehensible underwater. Names: Inuli have only one name - a name they choose themselves on adulthood. Whatever pet names they had before are forgotten on that day. Names do not vary by sex, but by region, with tropical Inuli favouring names that begin with r and containing lots of n's and l's, and temperate Inuli favouring names that begin with w or l and contain lots of r's and l's. All Inuli names (and, in fact, all Inuli words) end in vowels. Names: Bilana, Culana, Finila, Lalalino, Lana, Lerilo, Lirila, Loroli, Lonoru, Lulari, Nalari, Nulora, Onori, Parila, Ranala, Renilo, Rilipi, Rinile, Ronita, Ruline, Runote, Sana, Silu, Warare, Wanire, Wiliro, Wiralo, Woliro, Worulu, Wupuru. Adventurers: Inuli do not adventure as such, but sometimes bored Inuli cast off any responsibilities and become little more than savages, swimming through the ocean in groups, just eating and trying not to think. These periods can last for several years, but eventually the Inuli tires of being constantly excited and he returns to water elven society. Many water elves explore underwater, but they do not 'fight for the greater good' as many surface adventurers claim to - they just want to know what's there. Water elves rarely venture on to the surface, as their bodies cannot hold themselves together without water. Inuli racial traits: +6 Dexterity, -2 Constitution: Inuli share the frailty of all elves, but their movements are flowing, like water, and they can bend their semi-fluid bodies in ways that would snap the spine of a human. Medium sized: As medium-sized creatures, Alani have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Inuli base speed is 20 ft. Inuli base swim speed is 50ft. An Ilan gets a +8 racial bonus to all Swim checks, and can always take 10 on a Swim check, even if rushed or threatened. Inuli can use the run action when swimming as long as they swim in a straight line. Improved low-light vision (Ex): An Ilan can see four times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and other similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish colour and detail under these conditions. Water subtype (Ex): Inuli are water creatures, and as such have the water subtype. Breathe anything (Ex): Although they do not have gills, Inuli can breathe water (fresh or salt) and air with equal ease. Damage resistance 5/blunt: The watery nature of the Inuli means that their body flows around slashing and piercing weapons without being damaged unless the blow is particularly fierce. Bludgeoning weapons are far too large for their bodies to flow around, though, and have their normal effect. Gelatinous form (Ex): An Ilan's body is jellylike, and therefore does not contain as many vital points as a normal creature. Because of this, whenever a critical hit or sneak attack is scored against an Ilan, there is a 50% chance it is negated and the damage is instead rolled normally. Fire and cold resistance 5: An Ilan's watery body is resistant to extremes of temperature. Never sleep (Ex): Inuli never need to sleep. Never thirst (Ex): Inuli never need to drink. +2 to Search, Spot, and Listen checks: Inuli have keen senses. +2 to all Will saves: The perseverance of Inuli, and the difficulty of swaying then from their path, is legendary. Liquid body (Ex): For each 10 minute-period that an Ilan is out of water, he suffers one point of temporary Constitution damage, as it is difficult for an Inuli to hold his body together without water to support it. Also, when out of water, an Inuli cannot heal naturally, and he loses his Gelatinous Form ability, as there is no water with which he can reconstruct his body. An Inuli cannot heal himself by drinking water. Favoured class: Sorcerer. Inuli have a natural connection to magic. Level adjustment +3: Inuli are more powerful, and gain levels more slowly than, the standard PC races.
Dream Spinner 07-04-03, 02:15 PM	I really like these, but I don't think many D&D players are gonna play as one. If they do, the entire group would probably have to be traveling across seas all/most of the time or the group would have to travel next to rivers/streams all the time.
Bandido 07-04-03, 06:31 PM	Well, D&D players probably wouldn't play as one unless it was an underwater campaign, in which case DR 5/blunt is immensely useful (ever tried to swing a baseball bat underwater?) They're more for intersting encounters, and there's always magic if you really want to play one.
Dream Spinner 07-05-03, 01:19 AM	Are you gonna do Shadow Elves too? If so, I'm imagining them to be like the WarCraft III's Night Elves. Nocturnal and they naturally become invisible at night, if motionless.
nick012000 07-05-03, 04:10 AM	i made a race of shadowrats in the old underdark thread...
Bandido 07-05-03, 07:31 AM	Originally posted by nick012000 i made a race of shadowrats in the old underdark thread... And they're in the new one as well ;) . Shadow elves? Well, I don't think we should have them, as Shadow isn't an element as such, and is more associated with disruptions of nature. The closest we'll get to them is races warped by shadow, like the Shadowrats. Of course, if everyone else wants shadow elves, I'll rustle some up. The Night Elves would be a good thing to base them on.
Dream Spinner 07-05-03, 01:12 PM	Originally posted by Bandido Well, I don't think we should have them, as Shadow isn't an element as such,... Well, then why are there Shadow leylines? :confused:/:rolleyes: (Which one, I don't know.)
Bandido 07-05-03, 04:45 PM	Shadow leylines? Isn't it just that normal ley lines get tainted with shadow when large, sudden shifts in nature occur?
WizO_Iyala 07-05-03, 08:21 PM	*breathes deeply in an attempt not to go on a shadow rant again* My personal way of thinking about Shadow is as a fifth element, it would be an equal source of magic in the world, it would just come about in a more parasitical nature. I know it's not the obvious choice for an element or the most intuitive conept but that's how I've been thinking of it. If it's going to be a component of magic, the land and the world, I think we should consider it an element? [subliminal message]shadow = element[/subliminal message] ;)
Gladius_Lucix 07-05-03, 09:29 PM	If Shadow is an element, then why not light?
Dream Spinner 07-05-03, 09:33 PM	Besides, now there are 5 elements and 5 is a magic number! :D <blink> Okay, fine, that makes no difference. I'll just let Iyala defend Shadow as an element. Gladius: Shadow the element doesn't mean shadows and darkness. Shadow the element is change and other stuff. It's a more abstract part of nature. Look in the old thread for Shadow Magic for more. (The link to the old World Creation Boards is stickied at the top.)
Dream Spinner 07-11-03, 02:39 PM	Iyala: Do you think that Shadow is a good element name, cuz people r gonna get confused. And another thing: Why does it seem like these threads have been a bit lethargic as of late?
WizO_Iyala 07-11-03, 05:39 PM	Yeah, it's been a quiet couple of weeks. From my part that's down to overtime at work and spending what little free time I have trying to draw and paint something I'm working on. The "shadow" issue is an important one and I'm not 100% wedded to the idea but I've yet to her something else as evocative, fantasy-esque and descriptive of the character of shadow Magic (I won't tell you Corinthian's suggestions :rolleyes: ) but if anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them, might be better over in the elemental magic thread though.
Bandido 07-12-03, 11:08 AM	Originally posted by WizO_Iyala but I've yet to her something else as evocative, fantasy-esque and descriptive of the character of shadow Magic (I won't tell you Corinthian's suggestions :rolleyes: Oh, please tell us! Please!? Oh, and I haven't been around much because I have succumbed once more to my Shining Force II addiction. I should be okay next week, though.
Dream Spinner 07-12-03, 12:26 PM	A name for a change element? I don't know. I've always placed change under the water element, but we can't use any water references like "Tide" or something like that because then people would want to know "Why isn't there an Ashes element? A Cloud Element? A Tree Element?" Change is also a part of life itself. Evolution element is just stupid. Growth element isn't the best because Shadow is also decay. I'll have to keep thinking. And what did he suggest?
Leaves 07-12-03, 03:21 PM	I don't have any problem with "shadow" but here's some alternate suggestions: Nacency would be the quality of the magic/element that initiates change. Shift describes what we are looking for well, but it is a difficult word to use because it has too many alternate meanings. Gotta love the Plumb visual thesaurus (http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html). As a side note, I think it's perfectly justifiable to say that "light" is not the proper opposite of "shadow". "Darkness" is the opposite of "light", because each can exist independent of the other. "Shadow" arises from the interaction of the two.
Dream Spinner 07-12-03, 10:35 PM	I like Nacency, it has an archaic-y word, as in it's a word fewer people know. (Semi-ironically, I had to look up archaic once.) Shift isn't the best in my opinion, reason: Similar to yours. Originally posted by Leaves As a side note, I think it's perfectly justifiable to say that "light" is not the proper opposite of "shadow". "Darkness" is the opposite of "light", because each can exist independent of the other. "Shadow" arises from the interaction of the two. YES!!! I tried explaining that to my friend, but he refused to listen. Shadows are in between, like mists, doorways, and the time of midnight. (I know midnight is technically morning, but like magic, it's the symbolism and the idea of things, not the science-I said more in the Elemental Magic thread on that) <deleted b/c I was going into stuff you didn't need to know, I need to do this more often>
WizO_Iyala 07-14-03, 08:54 PM	Personaly I prefer shadow, I have no problem with it and to be honest I can't read nacency without seeing "nancy" or trying to say it and ending up with "Nathan-y" :( I think it needs somethng that sounds elemental, ithas to be something people can intuitively think of as a thing and a force at the same time. Shadow is an ambiguous word, which works both for and against it.
Dream Spinner 07-14-03, 09:52 PM	If you want something like Shadow, there really isn't anything else. There are the Winds of Change, but that's already an element (Air, if you're a little slow today). We should just keep it as Shadow. Plus, change is often looked upon as foreboding. Shadows are foreboding. Yay! It fits! Plus, English class within unleashed: "Change is inevitable." When will there be not shadows? Again, "Yay! It fits!" Plus, a common change is weather. Clouds growing overhead. Darker. Shadows. Thrice, "Yay! It fits!" Okay, I'm done. :nonono: I need to go to sleep earlier.
WizO_Iyala 07-15-03, 07:22 PM	Well I wouldn't say that Shadow is an automatic choice. If MTG hadn't alredy used penumbra I'd be tempted to go with that. My instinct if we want something other than shadow is to play around with the word "umbra" and see if we can't find a nice-sounding word that works. New word of the day: adumbrate: To give a sketchy outline, foreshadow, disclose partially or to overshadow (shadow or obscure)
Dream Spinner 07-16-03, 12:51 AM	So we make up a word using "umbra"? Okay...I'll think about that.
WizO_Iyala 07-16-03, 03:22 AM	No, I'm not saying that. Personay I like Shadow best but we're not limited to that if we can come up with something better. Right now I can't *shrugs*
Dream Spinner 07-16-03, 03:17 PM	We'll just stick to Shadow. There's pretty much nothing else. OT, well, half-OT, but does D&D have any actual languages created? Or do people just say "I'm speaking in Elvish right now. You don't understand."
Bandido 07-23-03, 11:23 AM	You just say, 'I'm speaking Elvish now, you don't understand.' You could learn how to speak Tolkien elvish for that purpose, but most people have lives, and therefore don't. There is a drow language online, but it's rubbish; I could have made up a better conlang in my sleep. You just know it's bad as soon as it says, 'Grammar - mostly the same as English....' :bored: Anyway, I have made some different Earth Elf stats in order to sex them up a bit. Are these ones improved, should we stick with the original ones, or is it back to the drawing board once again? You decide (in true Big Brother fashion ;)). Earth Elves (Basini) Basini racial traits: +2 Dex, -2 Con: Due to their slender builds, basini have the natural grace of all elves, and their frailty. Medium-sized: As medium sized creatures, basini have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Basini base speed is 40 ft. Low-light vision: A basan can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and other similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish colour and detail under these conditions. Less sleep (Ex): Basini only need to sleep for four hours a night. +2 racial bonus to Search, Spot, and Sense Motive checks. Earth elves have keen senses, and are nobody's fools, able to spot a ruse with ease. You Know It Makes Sense (Ex): The plain-speaking of a basan is sometimes just as convincing as the eloquence and couched words of city-folk. A basan may add his Wisdom modifier to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks if it is higher than his Charisma modifier. Bad Liar (Ex): Being blunt has its disadvantages. Basini get a -2 racial penalty to Bluff checks except when feinting. Nomad (Ex): The nomadic lifestyle of basini has made them not only faster than other elves, but also better at being on the move all day. Basini get a +2 racial bonus to the following checks and saves: Constitution checks made to continue running, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal (subdual) damage from a forced march, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal (subdual) damage from thirst, and Fortitude saves made to avoid nonlethal (subdual) damage from hot or cold environments. Where appropriate, this stacks with Endurance. Bones of Stone (Ex): When casting earth spells, a basan’s effective caster level is raised by +1 (for the purposes of determining level-dependant variables such as damage dice or range, and caster level checks only), and the DC of the spell is raised by +1. Favoured Class: Ranger. Is that okay? Balanced? Flavourful?
Leaves 07-23-03, 05:39 PM	Bones of Stone (Ex): <SNIP> The problem here is that there is no such thing as an "earth spell," except that summoning spells have [earth] type when they are summoning earth elementals. You could say that cleric spells from the Earth domain count, but some of the spells have no level-dependent variables except range and duration. Ironically, I was just thinking about Basini abilities last night. Here's what I thought up as I was falling asleep: Rockspeech (Sl) A basini can use the spell-like ability rockspeech once per day. It must be applied to a boulder greater than 1 1/5 feet long and wide, or a piece of mineral or or semi-precious stone at least 1 lb., or a gemstone with a value of 100gp or more. It cannot affect an area greater than a 10 foot cube (for example, if applied to a cliff, it only affects a 10 foot square. Rockspeech has one of three affects. Stone Message: A basini can leave a short (1 minute) verbal message in a rock that is repeated when a set condition is met. The message only lasts for 1 day/character level of the basini. After the message is received, it is erased. Stone messages can also be heard by another basini using rockspeech: speak with stone, even if the normal time limit has passed. Speak with Stone: Like the spell Speak with Plants with a duration of 1 minute. Rocks know about the same amount as plants do. Appraise: Actually a different application of the Speak with Stone ability. Gems tend to have a fair idea of their own value, so rockspeech can be used to gain a +10 circumstance bonus to an appraise check for a gem, or a +5 circumstance bonus to an appraise check for an item containing a gem (like a sword with a ruby in the hilt). I was thinking that basini could use this ability to leave messages along the routes they travel, or by enchanting a gem to send a secret message to someone. Basini would have a series of petroglyphs that they would use to mark stones containing different messages that only other basini would understand.
Leaves 07-24-03, 04:00 AM	I forgot to even answer your questions. I like the changes. The "nomad" abilities come off as a little odd, giving all those bonuses to Con-based rolls when the race has a penalty to Con, but it does make sense. I like the "You know it makes sense" ability (cumbersome name) and the fact that they get a faster-than-average base speed. Overall, good job!
Leaves 09-03-03, 02:52 PM	http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafbump.txt
Obsidianjaerc 09-03-03, 06:14 PM	Nacency Umbra Shadow Have we forgotten... Void? Anyway the new earth-elves look good and I will see if I can get some people on the "reate new spells here" thread to make earth spell for them.
ICE-T 09-04-03, 08:00 AM	i like the word VOID just dunno what id means but it sounds kinda powerfull to pronounce. VOID...VOID...VOID could someone explain what it ment isn't it something planar stuff or what? anyway about shadow/umbra/void elves they should have (in my oppinnion high acces to light/darkness spells (some bonuses to them, don't ask which) and infravision they reminds me of drow's just without the -im-an-evil-twisted-elf-who-loves-bizzare-things- stuff are shadow/umbra/void elves good or evil ? if evil they would make GREAT assasins
Leaves 09-04-03, 03:13 PM	Shadow isn't necessarily associated with evil. I think Chaotic Neutral would be my choice for alignment, chaotic because shadow is associated with Change. Darkvision/infravision and some light/darkness spells would be fitting for shadow elves. I think there should also be something about them that is contradictory, or many things. Something like, they have a sensitivity to daylight, but can also cast Daylight as a spell-like ability. Not that specifically, but something along those lines, that just seems wierd and contradictory. Void: Void was one of Planescape's quasi-elemental planes. It's the cross between negative energy and elemental air. Basically, it's a synonym for "the vacuum of space." I'm going to keep calling the fifth element "shadow" because it's something that I think everyone can relate to. However, I think it's useful to have synonyms. Can anyone think of any others for the other elements? Shadow/nacency/umbra/shifting/void Fire/plasma/flame/fervency/combustion Water/fluid/flow/aqua/hydro/ocean Earth/stone/mineral/crystaline/terra Air/wind/aroma/gas/bluster
Mak 10-02-03, 03:36 AM	Umm... isn't a Shadow a Darkness cast by an object blocking the Light?:D The Magic color system groups Fire, Earth, Chaos and Change in Red, if anyone's interested. That's why Red lies between Green (Life, Growth and Nature) and Black (Death, Decay and Darkness). If you're looking for other definitions for the elements, I have a few suggestions. In my world I associated them with philosophical concepts. Earth- Facts, Truth, Knowledge Arcane Codeword: Axiom(Absolute Truth) Fire- Action, Argument, Negation Arcane Codeword: Naze(na-ze, The Japanese word for "Why?") Water- Reaction, Acceptance, Understanding Arcane Codeword: Destrado(The desire to destroy one's self) Air- Ideals, Dreams, Thought Arcane Codeword: Nothing. My Air mages don't chant, they just think. But at some point in my story I wanted to create a "dark" element. I tried to work in a Shadow/Void/Darkness element, but realized there should also be a Light/Good element as well, and I ended up using Garfield's Magic Color Wheel for the final draft. :D
Dream Spinner 10-02-03, 03:22 PM	A shadow is, but Iyala's Shadow element isn't. That is why some have suggested changing the name, to prevent confusion. Oh, yeah. I drew my own interpretation of a water elemental elf. But I have no scanner plugged into any of the computers in my house, so ::shrug::.
Mak 10-14-03, 02:01 AM	I've noticed that the elemental elves sometimes cause disagreement because they are so different from the "normal" (Tolkien) elves. Also, others may want to use the more familiar definition of elves for some of their ideas. How about a compromise? Since you haven't created a history for the elemental elves yet, maybe they could be "normal" elves that, sometime in the distant past, dabbled in the elemental magics. As the world grew darker and life became more difficult, they became more and more dependent on their magic to survive, and centuries later, these elves are the result. This way, we can keep the elemental elves and use old-fashioned elves again. Sound good?
Mak 10-16-03, 06:57 AM	Bandido? You still around?
the_one_true_shea 04-01-06, 10:42 PM	Behold the "Elemental Elves" These things are neat! As well, they are one of the first concepts to appeare in the project!
Longwinn 04-14-06, 04:11 PM	Now if we could just come up with element specific spells. For instance, the one problem I have with the Elemental Savant isn't so much that they're element specific. It's that there's no real way to find a list of spells that are Air type spells only. I camp out on Air because that was my most recent Elemental Savant. Very nice character by the way. For instance...Elemental Elves should have a list of spells specific to their element and only to their element. You could include current Air type spells. But what I'm looking for are things like Air control. Hardening missiles of air to pummel an enemy. Removing air from an area so that your enemy may suffer suffocation. Compressing the air around a foe so as to crush him. All manner of spells could be created...and should be if you're creating a whole new race. Might as well add more flavor to a new race. In fact, they introduce more in the D&D world than simply coming into existence. They bring history, items, foods, spells, etc...with them. That's just my .02.
the_one_true_shea 04-15-06, 10:16 PM	Having :banghead: about assigning elemental attributes (or making elemental spell lists) before I have one thought that I would immeadiatly like to consider regarding "elemental spell lists" Magic Missle. What element is it? Shadow? Easy answer, but I have a better one. Fire Missle, Air Missle, Water Missle, Earth Missle, Shadow Missle. One spell becomes five with ease! The spell description stays majoritivly the same - but you add an elemental descriptor to it. Alike you have - fire weapon, water weapon, earth weapon... instead of "magic weapon" - in a world as quint (sept?) stratified along elemental associations - you can dopple many of the spells for the sole purpose of adding elemental associations to them. I tell ya what Longwinn (turn that two bits into a dollar! ) - Start the "Elemental Spell list thread" and I'll be there. As far as elves casting special spell lists.. I don't think they are that powerful of races, and unless we implementing paragon rule ( :drool: ) they won't get a whole host of spells. Unless you mean "rary's etc" kinda spells... I mean as a base race choice they should really have no more than maybe stuff like.. "create water" "gust of wind" or other minor creations. Maybe toss on the "magic(element) fang/weapon" ability as innate to boot? Oh and .... I think the Kaburi have the most interesting and developed culture of the elemental elves. SO FAR :blink: Note: in case Mak has anyone confused - the correct elemental associations are: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth - Shadow/Light/Soul The molor/element associations can (very rationally) be argued about thirty different ways - those are the affiliations Iyala set. I agree that they are as good as the next set. For those keeping tabs at home - those are the Vedic elements and associations. As opposed to the hermetic, buhhdist, shinto, or mayan... I think that covers the major elemental worshipping religions.. :D