| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Galen07-25-03, 12:12 AM | Let's start all over again shall we? In the UBB we made a new race who are suited for the desert life they are lizard like race with the head of an iguana, an upper body like that of viashino and a lower torse like that of centaur/lizard(4 legs angled like a crocodile only longer). First things first what are additional characteristics we could include? P.S. If we have a good artist member maybe s/he could illustrate them once we are finished so we can have actual visual representation of what we did. |
| Captain Mutilate07-25-03, 03:04 PM | ME! ME! I'm good at drawing scaled things! Well, as for the characteristics, ummm... They can heat up sand and air to some degree, allowing them to turn sand to glass, and therefore dig homes in the dunes (the sides of their tunnels would be glass). So, yeah. That's my contribution. Like it? :embarrass :D |
| Galen07-27-03, 10:46 PM | Um, let's start with something simplier and more plausible. The first thing to consider is specific physical characteristics. |
| Brknlf07-28-03, 09:40 AM | Maybe a slight difference depending on their aptitude ... maybe ones with bigger beards with more color have an aptitude towards being more intelligent while ones with more bone plates on the back are more like a soldier/worker varient. Either case, I think some beards would be an interesting feature on lizard centuar type creatures. These ones are more of a desert variety as I recall right? They'd probably have small clawed toes (less contact to the hot sandy ground when moving about). Their hands would probably be small too (well, thin at least, maybe long fingered, with more joints then a normal hand?). I like the idea about heating up sand to some extent, maybe a certain variety of these creatures can (or their mages can at least). While glass houses in the desert seem more like death saunas, the idea of sand dwelling below the surface is interesting. The glass walls allow them to naturally view the wonderful sand/soil outside thier homes, makes for a unique yet alien feeling to their lands? |
| Galen07-28-03, 08:54 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf Maybe a slight difference depending on their aptitude ... maybe ones with bigger beards with more color have an aptitude towards being more intelligent while ones with more bone plates on the back are more like a soldier/worker varient. Either case, I think some beards would be an interesting feature on lizard centuar type creatures. These ones are more of a desert variety as I recall right? They'd probably have small clawed toes (less contact to the hot sandy ground when moving about). Their hands would probably be small too (well, thin at least, maybe long fingered, with more joints then a normal hand?). I second that notion of different physical attributed. I think we should allocate them based on their role in the society. Soldiers are bulkier with tougher armored skin(for male species only), shamans/medics should have colorful pattern and workers whould be dull but bulky body. As for the female species, they can be the workers and shaman/medic type but cannot be of soldier type. Their female uniqueness is that females can only be the leader of the sociery and different from the others by the more elaborate coloring and fins. I agree with the hands being thin(to conserve water and lack of available food) but for the feet I think having wide padded soles would serve better to insulate their feet from the heat. Originally posted by Brknlf I like the idea about heating up sand to some extent, maybe a certain variety of these creatures can (or their mages can at least). While glass houses in the desert seem more like death saunas, the idea of sand dwelling below the surface is interesting. The glass walls allow them to naturally view the wonderful sand/soil outside thier homes, makes for a unique yet alien feeling to their lands? I still disagree with the nomads having readily available magic to use and make the sands turn into glass so they can build burrows and/or housing. Imagine that ability in combat, they will have unfair advantage against enemies. I think shamans should be the only ones who can do it to create wind breakers and sand roasting pits for foods and using that magic requires effort to use. As for housing, nomad tents, caves and windbreakers are best suited for their social life(as you can read based on my implication, desert life is vey harsh and being mobile to look for water and food is a way of living). |
| Captain Mutilate08-02-03, 08:00 PM | Alright. That's good. And a select few are shamans, because im thinking of a few nasty tricks that they could use in combat. Maybe some could have different colored scales, possibly signifying: a) tribe/family affinity b)status |
| Galen08-04-03, 01:21 AM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Alright. That's good. And a select few are shamans, because im thinking of a few nasty tricks that they could use in combat. Maybe some could have different colored scales, possibly signifying: a) tribe/family affinity b)status Agree with the suggestion. Tribes are differentiated by skin coloration/pattern and size/style of fins protruding on their head back and arms. I think we've discussed everything we need to know about the physical attributes so if you're up to it Captain Mutilate could you try to do a sketch and show it to us here? It might help inspire how we tackle their social life. |
| Leaves08-04-03, 02:06 PM | I jsecond, I mean third, the idea that they should have broad feet. It also would help them walk across loose sand, like snowshoes help you walk across snow. Lots of desert animals have wide feet for that reason (like camels). I don't like the notion that females cannot be warriors, but males can be shamans. Do we have to follow the old "women are the weaker sex" stereotype? http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafsmilie.txt |
| Galen08-04-03, 08:13 PM | Originally posted by Leaves I jsecond, I mean third, the idea that they should have broad feet. It also would help them walk across loose sand, like snowshoes help you walk across snow. Lots of desert animals have wide feet for that reason (like camels). I don't like the notion that females cannot be warriors, but males can be shamans. Do we have to follow the old "women are the weaker sex" stereotype? http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafsmilie.txt I'm not stereotyping or being bias against females(I'm a girl you know), just following some nature rules. Besides, if I'm being bias againt women then I wouldn't have suggested they become leaders of the tribe. ;) ;) ;) |
| Captain Mutilate08-05-03, 11:15 AM | Originally posted by Galen I think we've discussed everything we need to know about the physical attributes so if you're up to it Captain Mutilate could you try to do a sketch and show it to us here? It might help inspire how we tackle their social life. Aight. As for social life, the leader of the tribe is the female who can convince the most males that she deserves to be the leader (or something like that... i don't know. Or there could be some sacred ritual (sort of like a coin flip: the magic conch shell)) And i mos def will do a sketch. |
| Captain Mutilate08-05-03, 03:09 PM | I actually had a lot harder time than i thought i would.... i had to get off prematurely so i didnt get to read fully wht everyone said, but here's the sketch (http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/sliversrule/Lizard_man.gif) anyway... If this sketch doesn't really do it for you, imagine viashino runner with some differences. **remember: this is only a sketch** |
| Leaves08-05-03, 08:35 PM | Cool, but don't forget, the plan is for the lizardmen to be centaur-like, ie, with six limbs total, two arms and four legs. I look forward to seeing the next version. I'm not stereotyping or being bias against females(I'm a girl you know), just following some nature rules. Besides, if I'm being bias againt women then I wouldn't have suggested they become leaders of the tribe. Nature rules for mammals. In egg-laying species there are cases where females are bigger and bulkier than males. It's not that important; what's more important, is how powerful are the lizardpeople compared to humans, and how powerful are the castes compared to each other? There would be different considerations, from a D&D perspective, depending on whether lizardpeople are supposed to be an option for a player to play as a beginning character, or if they are supposed to be a more powerful race. The situation I'm worried about is where the worker and warrior castes are balanced to be equally powerful, or the worker caste is less powerful but the warrior caste is balanced to fit into a beginning party, because in that situation all you have done is take away the female lizardperson fighter/ranger/paladin as an option. I hope some of that made sense. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafwink.txt |
| Galen08-05-03, 08:46 PM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate I actually had a lot harder time than i thought i would.... i had to get off prematurely so i didnt get to read fully wht everyone said, but here's the sketch (http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/sliversrule/Lizard_man.gif) anyway... If this sketch doesn't really do it for you, imagine viashino runner with some differences. **remember: this is only a sketch** CM - Some revisions: 1) Head is similar to an iguana 2) 4 legs with padded feet(like that of a camel) Generally I think you got it. Leaves - I see your point. What differentiates the warrior from workers is that Warriors tend to be armored, quicker and larger while workers are only strong and bulky(kinda like an ant colony with 2 equal genders eh?). If you'll incorporate availability to D&D then there will be limitation of not having female warriors but becoming a a leader is out of the male's jurisdiction. Another thing, being a shaman is something female is really good at compared to males. Overall I think everything evens out. |
| Captain Mutilate08-06-03, 09:39 AM | Personally, I disagree with the fact that only the females should be the leader. The leader of the tribe should be the strongest one, and the one who can beat the crap out of the other hopefuls. And someone needs to make a summary of what we've done so far. (sorry, my parents made me get off, so i couldn't read all of it. Sorry. Will do better next time.) |
| Brknlf08-06-03, 12:04 PM | I have to add my opinion that the original idea of female leaders should stick with this race. The 'might makes right' idea would probably lead to a degenerate race of beings. Perhaps, in the history of this race, the males did rule their society and they fought long wars with amongst the tribes which led them to the brink of extinction. What the females started to do was cooperate, a strange concept, but one strong male swinging fists could easily be brought down through cooperation and the teamwork of females. In fact, it wouldn't be much harder for the females to convince males to fight for them (like you originally said) and this is all still assuming the females are 'weaker', which they're not is what I'm guessing so far by what's been said, just that the armored ones are typically male while the ones predisposed to understanding the ways of magic are typically female. This could be like the census on goblins as the project develops. Goblins were said to be evil, but everyone always brings up 'what if they were raised differently, not all goblins should be evil'. The idea could be that females do rule the majority of this society. This doesn't stop there from being fringe elements/societies that are male dominated, just the majority of them aren't. Maybe a few remote tribes still have male leaders, but they do their best to stick to themselves because the other tribes could easily wipe them off the face of the planet. In fact, the males could be the objects of beauty in this race's society. Llike the Huli (http://lava.nationalgeographic.com/cgi-bin/pod/PhotoOfTheDay.cgi?day=16&month=9&year=02) or, more importantly, like the Wodaabe (http://www.africanceremonies.com/ceremonies/largephotopages/1wodaabecharm.html) , who are a desert culture (the Huli are Indonesian). No funny comments about the dancers (or pictures in general), they are performing a serious dance and any jokes would be disrespectful. The Wodaabe men dress up and spend an elaborate amount of time putting on make-up to perform a dance judged by women (for courtship). They put on all this yellow make-up and then the dance for hours, they roll their eyes and interesting sounds (I can't describe it, I don't know where to find a recording on the internet either). They do this in the hopes of being chosen by a woman. In fact, marriage is a loose concept in this culture. If a woman feels she is not being treated with respect, she can change husbands at these dances (it happens once a year). The men in this society accept this behavior. Even in real life, there are plenty of cultures that are not dominated by the strongest individuals nor are they dominated by males. |
| Galen08-06-03, 08:47 PM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Personally, I disagree with the fact that only the females should be the leader. The leader of the tribe should be the strongest one, and the one who can beat the crap out of the other hopefuls. And someone needs to make a summary of what we've done so far. (sorry, my parents made me get off, so i couldn't read all of it. Sorry. Will do better next time.) CM - I see, your suggestion do have merits since a lot of our civilizations milestones happened because of leaders such as those. i'm just thinking that we should try something different than the norm of "might makes right". Instead of leaders being the most powerful why not a leader who is best at diplomacy and bureaucracy. In a place where resources are scarce resourcec management is the top priority rather than security. As for me suggesting specialized roles for genders, I think going co-ed(equal) is overused already and trying to go primeval with gender roles would prove a lot more colorful when used. Brknlf - I completely agree in making males somewhat vain when it comes to appearance. Looks for this race may be an excellent way for them to attract females since proper grooming and good physique is a symbol of prhysical/mental/social prowess. P.S. I forgot the name of that african tribe but it was a ritual to show the matriarch leader that they are prime specimens of the society. They show as much white using their eyes and teeth to prove they are physically healthy. |
| Captain Mutilate08-07-03, 12:04 PM | Aight. Here's the new . pic (http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/sliversrule/Lizard_dude.jpg). And here's my *new* contribution. This is a male of some sort, maybe a warrior. THE BODY The body i made so that if they so choose, these lizard-people can run on all six legs at once. THE ARMOR: Instead of fins, the males have some sort of armor running down their back. During the mating season (some set time), the armor plating changes color from a dull red, or green, etc. to bright, flashy colors. Then, each tribe holds some sort of olympics for the females to watch, and therefore choose their mate according to a) how he does in the various events (therefore choosing which attributes he will bring to their offspring), and b)the brightness, flashiness of their armor. Sound good? THE STAFF The staff has feathers on it, which may seem like no big deal, but remember: this is the desert. Birds are very rare, therefore a lizardman (im leaning toward the name Vidrix for the race: vi (as in VI-agra), and drix as in Vizzer-DRIX)) possessing feathers would have some status int eh tribe. Whaddaya think? |
| Leaves08-07-03, 04:52 PM | I like the idea of an annual event of some sort where males compete for the favor of the females. As to the exact nature of the competion: actually, I bet it would vary quite a bit between tribes. One tribe it might be wrestling, another it's a cross-country footrace, another it is a falconry competition, where success depends upon how well the males train their hawks for hunting. In other tribes the males make costumes and choreograph dances, and they are judged based on that. Or the males have to build a structure or a small camp, and they are judged on that (like African weaverbirds and bowerbirds in Australia). A whole range of options. What do you think about the numbers of each caste and gender? Is the number of females equal to the number of males, are there more females, or are there more males? Which caste is most and least common? Do all of the males participate in the annual contests, or only the warriors and shamans? Do the male warriors and shamans compete against each other in the same events? (What is the plural of shaman, anyway? :P ) Personally, I think it makes sense if the worker race is about 50% and the population, and the majority of the rest are warriors. All the females get to choose mates in the contests (including workers). Male workers are forbidden from competing in some tribes, and in others they are allowed to, but it doesn't make much difference, because they usually don't win anyway since they are not as strong. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafcool.txt |
| Captain Mutilate08-07-03, 05:56 PM | Originally posted by Leaves I like the idea of an annual event of some sort where males compete for the favor of the females. As to the exact nature of the competion: actually, I bet it would vary quite a bit between tribes. One tribe it might be wrestling, another it's a cross-country footrace, another it is a falconry competition, where success depends upon how well the males train their hawks for hunting. In other tribes the males make costumes and choreograph dances, and they are judged based on that. Or the males have to build a structure or a small camp, and they are judged on that (like African weaverbirds and bowerbirds in Australia). A whole range of options. It is a good idea, but the reason i said having a contest was to see their PHYSICAL ability,not mcs. abilities. The reason they wuld have physical abilities contests is so the females can see the physical attributes that their possible mate would pass on to the possible couple's offspring. How would training hawks (where would you find hawks in the desert, another one of my points in my last post. and more importantly, how would you sustain them? they arent meant for conditions like that) help their potential offspring, I may ask? Anyways, the shamans won't participate in the contest, as the shamans, bing the magical (and revered, to some degree) beings they are, could choose a mate before the contest begins... |
| Leaves08-07-03, 07:19 PM | Physical abilities aren't everything. Mental abilities are also important for survival, and they can also be passed on to offspring. It is also important that the potential father be able to provide shelter and food for their offspring. If sandstorms are a threat for a tribe, being able to build a sturdy tent to stand against the wind is important. If part of the diet is provided by hunting, training a hawk to catch food helps the tribe survive. As to your comment about hawks: no offense, but where are you getting this from? Falconry has been an important sport and part of the culture of Arabs for hundreds of years. Isn't the Arabian penninsula a desert? Mongolian tribes trained hawks and eagles; they lived in and around the Mongolian desert. One of the most popular birds in modern falconry is the Harris Hawk, which lives in the saguaro deserts of Arizona and New Mexico. There are all sorts of snakes and lizards and desert mice living in deserts, and hawks eat snakes and lizards and mice. They nest on cliff-sides or on cacti or in the trees around oases. Where do you get the idea that hawks can't survive in the desert? What about this (http://www.datadubai.com/desmall2a.htm)? That looks like a falcon in a desert to me. Here (http://www.tomvezo.com/gallery/tv0401.html) is a Harris Hawk nesting on top of a cactus. About your other comment, I was talking about male shamans, not female shamans. If you had enough male shamans, they might compete against each other to see who was most powerful, then the highest-ranking females would make their choice based on which male shaman had the most impressive result. But it wouldn't make any sense for the shamans to be competing against the warriors, because they have different skills. That's what I was saying. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafcool.txt |
| Galen08-08-03, 04:54 AM | As usual I'll be out during the weekends so see you all on monday. As for what you 2 have discussed so far here's a summation of what I think: 1) We're talking desert terrian here so resource scarcity is a point to consider. 2) Competition w/ festivity air between nomadic tribes is not a good idea since they used up resources needlessly. Doing competition to settle disputes is better. All competition is a test of physical and mental prowess since they can't waste use too much physical effort . 3) workers comprises 2/3 of the population 1/3 are soldiers/scouts and selective numbers are shamans 4) Males comprises 2/3's of the tribe w/c is why they must compete for the attention of the females 5) Falconry or something similar(aeshir?) is a good addition since falcon can be used to scout and help track prey. 6) Shamans are too important to go on competition or show their physical prowess. Their magic, w/c is very powerful compared to normal magic ones, uses too much effort to be wasted. They are considered judges in any competitions and disputes since they have greater wisdom/intelligence. |
| Dream Spinner08-11-03, 04:47 AM | Originally posted by Leaves (What is the plural of shaman, anyway?:P) "Shamans". It seems like it should be shamen, but that it's shamans. ::Shrug:: Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Personally, I disagree with the fact that only the females should be the leader. The leader of the tribe should be the strongest one, and the one who can beat the crap out of the other hopefuls. And someone needs to make a summary of what we've done so far. (sorry, my parents made me get off, so i couldn't read all of it. Sorry. Will do better next time.) FYI, males aren't neccessarily stronger. As Leaves said, there are cases where the females are stronger. This is especially true for insects. For example, mosquitoes and many species of spiders. Also, the Amazons. Haven't you heard of Wonder Woman (Is that one word or two?) or Xena? :P Anyway, is this race cold-blooded? If they are, I believe that would result in a lot of time heating up in the sun, slower movements, and some way to keep warm at night. Also, would these people worship any gods in particular? Or like nature spirits? |
| Galen08-11-03, 05:36 AM | Since they are reptile they are cold blooded(unless most prefer them warm blooded). Because they are on a desert region they don't need to bask to acquire sufficient body heat to move normally for the daily routine. At night the Shamans do their work in creating fire and/or making the sands sufficiently warm to help prevent them from freezing up and getting sluggish(w/c explains why shamans are revered by this race). As for religion, not yet we don't have any specifics on that but we'll soon tackle that after more important issues are dealt with. |
| Captain Mutilate08-11-03, 10:12 AM | Well resource scarcity... if you dig deep enough anywhere in the world you will find water. So, the shamans could just heat up the sand, change it to glass and make a hole (lined with glass) all the way down to the water table (another reason why they are revered by the race. |
| Dream Spinner08-11-03, 01:52 PM | Even reptiles in the desert need to bask. And I would think this race would move around even more. We could make them warm-blooded. I believe that many paleontoligists and the like think that dinosaurs were. But I don't exactly keep up with paleontology news, so I wouldn't know for sure. Anyway, platypuses (or is it platypi?) lay eggs, as does another mammal whose name I can't remember. Just saying, religion can get very important. Basking in the sun everyday can be considered a form of worship. Contemplating on life for an hour or two each day under the sun-god while he empowers each of them with energy to live another day. I have a question: All shamans are females right? So, is shamanism like a teaching that only females can learn? Or is shamanism something that can only show up in females and are a thing they're born with? |
| Captain Mutilate08-11-03, 01:56 PM | Well if anyone reads the Sword of Truth series, i think we could run it something like that. Females usually get the gift of the sandmagic, but if males get it, it is much stronger (and usually use it for evil, and... I smell a 'liberate the oppresed tribe adventure'). And when a coupling occurs, and one of them has the gift, the offspring will always have the gift. Maybe in some tribes any male child born of one who has the gift is executed, to save the tribe (possibly the whole desert) of a possible 'dark age', so to speak. Whaddaya think? ~CM~ |
| Galen08-11-03, 08:17 PM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner Even reptiles in the desert need to bask. And I would think this race would move around even more. We could make them warm-blooded. I believe that many paleontoligists and the like think that dinosaurs were. But I don't exactly keep up with paleontology news, so I wouldn't know for sure. Anyway, platypuses (or is it platypi?) lay eggs, as does another mammal whose name I can't remember. Just saying, religion can get very important. Basking in the sun everyday can be considered a form of worship. Contemplating on life for an hour or two each day under the sun-god while he empowers each of them with energy to live another day. I have a question: All shamans are females right? So, is shamanism like a teaching that only females can learn? Or is shamanism something that can only show up in females and are a thing they're born with? Paleontologist suggests that some dinosaurs are warm-blooded but the likely suspects are those that evolved into birds(don't quote me on this, I forgot where I read it and the accuracy of my memory). Since they are more reptilian than aven I say they can be cold blooded. Religion is very important we don't deny it but I don't think basking is a very good form of worshipping. How about we link their worship with sunrise/sunset? Makes more sense since they are very dependent on the sun to exist and survive the desert. every morning they genuflect and make sacrifice(it's up to you what it is but make it spartan since resource is minimal) to give blessing to the sun as it rise/set. I didn't say females are the only one to become shamans. Males can become one too but they require more study and training to become as attuned to magic as the females. Becoming a shaman is part inborne part training. A shaman can sense from a child if s/he has potential and the training brings out the potential. I believe success rate should be 50% since not many are chosen to take the training. |
| Captain Mutilate08-11-03, 08:40 PM | Alright that sounds good too. If their religion is connected to the sun and stuff, and the idea of rings around the planet is a go... read a post in that thread. I had the idea that once a year, the sun would shine through the rings, having a stained-glass effect on teh earth below. Maybe that could be their equivalent to our christmas, or... something. |
| Galen08-11-03, 09:08 PM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Alright that sounds good too. If their religion is connected to the sun and stuff, and the idea of rings around the planet is a go... read a post in that thread. I had the idea that once a year, the sun would shine through the rings, having a stained-glass effect on teh earth below. Maybe that could be their equivalent to our christmas, or... something. Sounds fine with me. Could somebody summarize what we have agreed so far? I'm kinda busy with something else to concentrate on collating them. |
| Captain Mutilate08-12-03, 11:21 AM | Uuuummm.. I will, later... |
| Leaves08-12-03, 07:52 PM | Here's what I've seen so far: The race (the only name that's been proposed is Vidrix) Is a centauroid reptilian race. Has three castes: warriors, shamans, and workers. Workers are both male and female, making up 2/3 of the population. Warriors are male only, making up 1/3 of the polpulation. Shamans can be either male of female, but females are more suited for magic-using. They make up a small minority of the population, but most leaders and judges are shamans. The race is cold-blooded. They don't take a long time sun-basking to get going, but they become sluggish in the cold night. One of the shaman's important jobs is to keep members of the tribe warm at night. The males of the tribe compete for female attention in annual games, which are often athletic events, but can also be other sorts of competition. Religion of the race is tied to the sun, including daily rights at sunise/sunset, and/or annual religious holidays tied to the suns passage through the planets rings. Any disaggreements/additions/comments on any of that? I had some thoughts about religion: Usually in fantasy religions the sun-god is good and benevolent, the bringer of life, etc. I've always thought that would be different for a desert sun-god, who would be seen as cruel, harsh, somebody who takes away life, since that is what the desert sun is like. I was going to suggest that for this race, but then I had another idea: The lizard people would see that the desert sun is less cruel to them than it is to other races, so they might view the sun-god as a cruel, greedy god, who is nevertheless a powerful ally, who favors the lizard-people above all others. Unrelated question: Is the race monogamous? |
| Galen08-12-03, 09:30 PM | Originally posted by Leaves Here's what I've seen so far: The race (the only name that's been proposed is Vidrix) Is a centauroid reptilian race. Has three castes: warriors, shamans, and workers. Workers are both male and female, making up 2/3 of the population. Warriors are male only, making up 1/3 of the polpulation. Shamans can be either male of female, but females are more suited for magic-using. They make up a small minority of the population, but most leaders and judges are shamans. The race is cold-blooded. They don't take a long time sun-basking to get going, but they become sluggish in the cold night. One of the shaman's important jobs is to keep members of the tribe warm at night. The males of the tribe compete for female attention in annual games, which are often athletic events, but can also be other sorts of competition. Religion of the race is tied to the sun, including daily rights at sunise/sunset, and/or annual religious holidays tied to the suns passage through the planets rings. Any disaggreements/additions/comments on any of that? I had some thoughts about religion: Usually in fantasy religions the sun-god is good and benevolent, the bringer of life, etc. I've always thought that would be different for a desert sun-god, who would be seen as cruel, harsh, somebody who takes away life, since that is what the desert sun is like. I was going to suggest that for this race, but then I had another idea: The lizard people would see that the desert sun is less cruel to them than it is to other races, so they might view the sun-god as a cruel, greedy god, who is nevertheless a powerful ally, who favors the lizard-people above all others. Unrelated question: Is the race monogamous? Thanks for collating them leaves! :D :D :D As for religion, it can swing both ways. They are reptilian so heat is good but too much and they are cooked. Lack of it means they become sluggish but they do have shamans to sustain them. I think they would worship the sun as a god to be revered and fear since they see it as something they need but not to be taken for granted. As for them being monogamous, We do know males vie for females attention to mate but after mating do you think the females are free to find another mate after siring an offspring? I mean it is survival of the fittest so the previous year fittest might not be the fittest next year so choosing another mate might have some benefits. |
| Captain Mutilate08-12-03, 09:51 PM | Sure. Of course. Or maybe after coupling, the female could eat the male... (jk jk. that would suck) |
| Bandido08-13-03, 10:48 AM | Originally posted by Leaves I had some thoughts about religion: Usually in fantasy religions the sun-god is good and benevolent, the bringer of life, etc. I've always thought that would be different for a desert sun-god, who would be seen as cruel, harsh, somebody who takes away life, since that is what the desert sun is like. I was going to suggest that for this race, but then I had another idea: The lizard people would see that the desert sun is less cruel to them than it is to other races, so they might view the sun-god as a cruel, greedy god, who is nevertheless a powerful ally, who favors the lizard-people above all others. Hey. :) The problem with the sun god being labelled as evil is that implies that the night is okay in the desert - it isn't. Although the lizard-people would be baked during the day, they - and everything else - would literally freeze at night. Of course, this could explain why all their religious rites are held at sunrise and sunset - it's the only time when the temperature is warm or cool, and not hot or cold, both of which are very bad for cold-blooded creatures. Hmmmm...actually, perhaps their entire religion could be about appeasing the sun god, who forces them to suffer in the oppressive heat of day, and to freeze at night. Maybe the only reason they think that the sun god favours them over all others is because they suck up to him constantly. :) |
| Captain Mutilate08-14-03, 10:06 AM | Lol. That's a good idea. |
| Galen08-14-03, 08:22 PM | I believe we can get on with discussing their society. What do you think should their lifestyle and social aspect be? Do take note this is different from the previously discussed heirarchy and role in the society. My first suggestion is that since they are nomads they tend to move from one place to another in search of food and water. They only permamemtly settle on places where fresh water is abundant(oasis comes to mind). Most of their belongings are portable and light yet strong to resist desert winds. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-14-03, 11:39 PM | In the Past: A group of [Virix] ( I like it more than Vidix) from diffrent tribes found a cavern complex accesable only from a hole in the sand. They quarreled over it and eventualy dicided to give it to all the tribes. Now: Every Spring at [The Great Fair] (when all the tribes gather) they have a competion between the most talented (I dont know what contest but something requireing all of the most inportent idal to their society). The winner of the contest (one constestant per tribe) gets great honor and importence for delivering the caves to his tribe for one year. It`s just an idea I dont know if it would work. Input please. |
| Galen08-15-03, 12:13 AM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc In the Past: A group of [Virix] ( I like it more than Vidix) from diffrent tribes found a cavern complex accesable only from a hole in the sand. They quarreled over it and eventualy dicided to give it to all the tribes. Now: Every Spring at [The Great Fair] (when all the tribes gather) they have a competion between the most talented (I dont know what contest but something requireing all of the most inportent idal to their society). The winner of the contest (one constestant per tribe) gets great honor and importence for delivering the caves to his tribe for one year. It`s just an idea I dont know if it would work. Input please. Very interesting. We could include that but we won't discuss it now(important events for this race will be done soon). |
| Dream Spinner08-15-03, 04:58 AM | Um, to keep warm at night, they could possibly sleep together in some mass bed or something. Perhaps something like big shallow pit. All around the perimeter, torches enchanted to stay lit and so that their area of warmth is wider. In the center of the pit is a nice fire. The area around the fire is reserved for shamans and other select individuals. I had a small idea: If these people were to shed their skin, and if the shedded skin was tough, the skin can be used to create bags, armor of some sort (Exoskeletal Armor), or be used in rituals. Skins of great heroes could be saved for such rituals or be worn to call upon the hero's strength for the wearer. Again, this is if the shedded skin retains their toughness after being shed. If it's shed and it's just like a thin layer, it's pretty useless other than being extra fuel. |
| Leaves08-15-03, 04:15 PM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner Um, to keep warm at night, they could possibly sleep together in some mass bed or something. Perhaps something like big shallow pit. All around the perimeter, torches enchanted to stay lit and so that their area of warmth is wider. In the center of the pit is a nice fire. The area around the fire is reserved for shamans and other select individuals. I had a small idea: If these people were to shed their skin, and if the shedded skin was tough, the skin can be used to create bags, armor of some sort (Exoskeletal Armor), or be used in rituals. Skins of great heroes could be saved for such rituals or be worn to call upon the hero's strength for the wearer. Again, this is if the shedded skin retains their toughness after being shed. If it's shed and it's just like a thin layer, it's pretty useless other than being extra fuel. Both neat ideas. I especially like the shed-skin ideas. IMO it would be worth giving them thick shed skins just in order to implement those ideas. If not, the last idea (Skins of great heroes . . . for the wearer.) could also be implemented with the tanned hides of the dead. (Leatherwork in general is probably their highest craft-form. Animal hides are one of the few raw materials available in the desert, since trees are rare (I was just reading in a book, that advanced metals are impossible in the desert, because you can't get wood for charcoal to fuel forges. This would be excluding magic and fossil fuels, of course.)) The mass pit idea works. Were you thinking the tribe sleeps out in the open, or in a great big yurt-like tent? Question: Are they true nomads (move all the time) or semi-nomads (move between summer and winter camps)? Do they get all their food from hunting, or do they have livestock? Camel, goats, and so on (domesticated emus?). Jaerc: Interesting idea. What do they use the caves for, I wonder? Shelter from the winter blizzards? Are they mines, with metal ore and coal to forge steel? Is there water there? Storyline -- One of the tribes had managed to win the caves continuously for decades. They are becoming rich off the resources, while the other tribes in the confederation have been getting poorer and poorer, reduced almost to begging. Finally, one of the other tribes has a hero who might have a chance of wrestling control from the dominant tribe. Bandido: Where you been? I like your comments on the evil sun-god concept. I was thinking, burning sun in the day and freezing cold at night could simply be dual faces of the god's cruelty. Suppose he was benevolent in the past, and in mythology the Virix (Does anyone else think "F", not "V", is a more lizard-y sound? Firix?) did something to displease him. He began to punish them by raining wrath upon them in the day, and leaving them to suffer alone at night. But he relented, and gave them two gifts to survive their situation: thick hides to resist the sun in the day, and shamans to warm their camps at night. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafwmints.txt |
| Captain Mutilate08-15-03, 04:20 PM | Maybe they could cover themselves with warm sand to keep themselves warm. Like, when you're at the beach and you cover yourself with sand. |
| Captain Mutilate08-15-03, 04:21 PM | Alright. Firix, Virix... I still like "Virix" better. |
| Dream Spinner08-15-03, 04:53 PM | I was thinking more in the open. Simple pit. But, there could be some kind of covering, perhaps made with shed skin. I just hope the thing doesn't catch on fire, because then it'll fall ontop of the entire tribe and, well, you know. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-15-03, 08:03 PM | Watch Out:teach: QOUTE Um, to keep warm at night, they could possibly sleep together in some mass bed or something. Perhaps something like big shallow pit. All around the perimeter, torches enchanted to stay lit and so that their area of warmth is wider. In the center of the pit is a nice fire. The area around the fire is reserved for shamans and other select individuals. I had a small idea: If these people were to shed their skin, and if the shedded skin was tough, the skin can be used to create bags, armor of some sort (Exoskeletal Armor), or be used in rituals. Skins of great heroes could be saved for such rituals or be worn to call upon the hero's strength for the wearer. Again, this is if the shedded skin retains their toughness after being shed. If it's shed and it's just like a thin layer, it's pretty useless other than being extra fuel. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that that is an excellent idea. In fact they could have a small pit i the big one with magical warmth radiating rocks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ QOUTE Both neat ideas. I especially like the shed-skin ideas. IMO it would be worth giving them thick shed skins just in order to implement those ideas. If not, the last idea (Skins of great heroes . . . for the wearer.) could also be implemented with the tanned hides of the dead. (Leatherwork in general is probably their highest craft-form. Animal hides are one of the few raw materials available in the desert, since trees are rare (I was just reading in a book, that advanced metals are impossible in the desert, because you can't get wood for charcoal to fuel forges. This would be excluding magic and fossil fuels, of course.)) The mass pit idea works. Were you thinking the tribe sleeps out in the open, or in a great big yurt-like tent? Question: Are they true nomads (move all the time) or semi-nomads (move between summer and winter camps)? Do they get all their food from hunting, or do they have livestock? Camel, goats, and so on (domesticated emus?). Jaerc: Interesting idea. What do they use the caves for, I wonder? Shelter from the winter blizzards? Are they mines, with metal ore and coal to forge steel? Is there water there? Storyline -- One of the tribes had managed to win the caves continuously for decades. They are becoming rich off the resources, while the other tribes in the confederation have been getting poorer and poorer, reduced almost to begging. Finally, one of the other tribes has a hero who might have a chance of wrestling control from the dominant tribe. Bandido: Where you been? I like your comments on the evil sun-god concept. I was thinking, burning sun in the day and freezing cold at night could simply be dual faces of the god's cruelty. Suppose he was benevolent in the past, and in mythology the Virix (Does anyone else think "F", not "V", is a more lizard-y sound? Firix?) did something to displease him. He began to punish them by raining wrath upon them in the day, and leaving them to suffer alone at night. But he relented, and gave them two gifts to survive their situation: thick hides to resist the sun in the day, and shamans to warm their camps at night. -------------------------------------------------------- QOUTE I was thinking more in the open. Simple pit. But, there could be some kind of covering, perhaps made with shed skin. I just hope the thing doesn't catch on fire, because then it'll fall ontop of the entire tribe and, well, you know. ------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 I think semi-nomad. Also how many lizards per tribe on average? 2 Leather work is important no doubt... but probbly not the most important craft. 3. Each tribe can use the caves anyway they would like. 4. I like Firix ( maybe pronunciantion variates from tribe to tribe?). The myth is also good but could use polishing. 5. Have the shamans make it permaently fire proof or have some [Firix/Virix] take sap from catus ( specifically Yuccas) to use as fireproofing.(Hey they could use that for glue too:D ) |
| Leaves08-15-03, 10:17 PM | I was just thinking, that if they had hissing-type voices, they'd be saying F. Try it. You can't really hiss a V sound. But maybe they don't have hissy voices. And yes, varying pronounciation is also likely. Perhaps they only use a tent in the winter, or in sandstorms. If they had enough magical ability available to use magical heatsources, then fire wouldn't be a problem. Since they obviously don't feel a need for privacy, they probably only use tents when necessary, due to weather or other factors. I don't know what an average tribe size is. Maybe a few hundred, at the most? Smallest bands could be 20 to 30 adults. Maybe they live in small bands part of the year, then join many bands into a large tribe for the rest of the time (during which time the annual competition happens). I agree, the myth is still only a very rough outline. Do you (all) think I should expand on it? |
| nick01200008-15-03, 11:01 PM | hmm... i think a big tent at night would be a good idea, to conserve heat. have a fire at the center, and heat stones at the edges, and have all the lizard people between them lieing in one great big pile, for warmth. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-15-03, 11:17 PM | Yes I think we should work on the mythos more... but later we still have specifics to work out. Do they hiss? Do they have any taboos? Do they have any tattoes ( for honored heros or shamans)? Do they have a monotheisitc religon ( sun god)or are their gods of Sand , water , fertiltily , and strenght ( and others)? What is the sun gods name? Please Vote on name 1 Vidix 2 Virix 3 Firix 4 Other (please specify) What kind of names do they have? What kind of TRIBE names do they have? Lets work out the shaman class ( DnD folks know what I mean) |
| nick01200008-16-03, 04:05 AM | shaman = cleric |
| Obsidianjaerc08-16-03, 01:06 PM | shaman does = cleric but what I really ment was a spell list. Some spells just do not seem to fit. |
| nick01200008-17-03, 06:22 AM | give them certain domains and alignments and chances are, they will dissapear. |
| Captain Mutilate08-17-03, 11:07 AM | We should actually have a new class for them... sort of a cross between a cleric and mage. Like "shracknashie". They could have their own unique spell list. I have an idea of what some of their spells would be, cause i think i came up with the heating sand idea... I dunno. I could make lots of spell skeletons, and you guys could flesh them out a bit? |
| Obsidianjaerc08-17-03, 01:17 PM | Yeah that sounds good Captain Mutilate. I will start to list groups of ten core spells at a time that I think would be appropriate and we can vote. If any one wants to list spells from splat books or others please do so. |
| Leaves08-17-03, 04:25 PM | Would this be a race-specific class (only for virix) or would it also be possible for other races to be members of this class? Is a core class or a prestige class more appropriate? (Hmm, "cross between cleric and mage." Maybe we make the virix shaman a Mystic Theurge.) http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafmwahaha.txt |
| Galen08-17-03, 08:56 PM | Shedding - I agree with this one since reptiles tend to shed skin to renew their coating and promote growth. They can use their skin as a bag to use and/or trade with outsiders. Heat at Night - I'm thinking of a pit where all open side of their tents are facing the pit to maximize heat received. Their tent is only one sided slant tent so they can be easily set/pack up, cover them from heat while allowing air to move freely and in case of danger it would not hamper them from mobilizing. Body adornment - We have agreed on skin color pattern so there isn't any purpose for tattoos but adornment such as bird's claw, feather, animal teeth and any traded trinkets would serve fine. Shamans - Since they are powerful members of the clan and serve as guiding force then they are kind of Cleric/Mage and most of their magic depends on the desert. We have agreed that they sparingly use their spell since they take quite an effort but if they do use it they have such powerful result. Here's my suggested spells they know. Sandstorm(self explanatory) Desert Twister(self explanatory) Quicksand(Turn a specific area into a dry quicksand) Dehydration(Remove significant amount of water from target creature) Sand Golems(golems made of sand w/c is impervious to weapon attack but vulnerable to magic attack) Scorch Earth(Raise temperature of specific area to 200 degrees Celsius) Ember pit(Create an open pit of scorching sand) Cure Critical Wounds(self explanatory) Heal(self explanatory) |
| nick01200008-18-03, 03:35 AM | meh. just make them NG druid/ sorceror /mystic theurges |
| Captain Mutilate08-18-03, 10:24 AM | I had a couple ideas for a spell or two where they compact sand into small rock, and then magically propell them at the foe. They could do the same with glass shards. Perhaps the shamans could make glass jars and stuff to trade with nomads for trinkets, or... whatever. |
| Leaves08-18-03, 03:49 PM | Idea: how about we create a prestige class, Virix Shaman, that gives +1 per level divine spellcasting, AND a custom arcane spell list that includes desert-oriented spells like Galen's list? Sort of a specialized Mystic Theurge. I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, I'm just uncomfortable with creating new core classes, I don't have any experience with that kind of thing. (Oh, and if you can't tell, I'm fine with using Virix as the name. I'll post a list of likely regional dialect changes for the name some time, which will give other options to use for stories/flavor.) Comments on specific spells: Quicksand: Very cool. Dehydration: Look at the Blue chromatic dragon's Create/Destroy water for effects of this spell. Sand Golems: I would change this to Summon Sand Elemental just for flavor. Scorch Earth: Ouch! Heal/Cure spells: If you're creating a core class, go ahead and add the whole list of healing spells. Would raise dead/resurection spells be in order? How about mummys? Do virix deal with the undead? I like the sand bullets spell. Low power or high? Maybe 1 bullet/level, 1d6 damage each. |
| Galen08-18-03, 08:53 PM | Originally posted by Leaves Idea: how about we create a prestige class, Virix Shaman, that gives +1 per level divine spellcasting, AND a custom arcane spell list that includes desert-oriented spells like Galen's list? Sort of a specialized Mystic Theurge. I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, I'm just uncomfortable with creating new core classes, I don't have any experience with that kind of thing. (Oh, and if you can't tell, I'm fine with using Virix as the name. I'll post a list of likely regional dialect changes for the name some time, which will give other options to use for stories/flavor.) Comments on specific spells: Quicksand: Very cool. Dehydration: Look at the Blue chromatic dragon's Create/Destroy water for effects of this spell. Sand Golems: I would change this to Summon Sand Elemental just for flavor. Scorch Earth: Ouch! Heal/Cure spells: If you're creating a core class, go ahead and add the whole list of healing spells. Would raise dead/resurection spells be in order? How about mummys? Do virix deal with the undead? I like the sand bullets spell. Low power or high? Maybe 1 bullet/level, 1d6 damage each. Sounds fine with me and as for the spell. To clarify some matter here's some further elaboration: Dehydration - The spells causes certain amount water to evaporate from the enemy rendering him weak and faint. Sand Golems - I think Summon Sand Elemental is more appropriate. Cure Critical Wounds/Heal - The creatures are part cleric so it is appropriate they can heal their fellow lizardmen but it should be something requiring effort and has very powerful effect so weaker healing spells were left out. Raise Undead/Resurrection - Dead things are hard to come by in the desert since the weather is very harsh, any one dying becomes food for the buzzards and anything left will robably be dealt with by the sun and sandstorms so I don't think they have a chance to learn basic necromancy. I tend to favor powerful ones only to emphasize that they are hard to cast and rarely used but when used the effect is quite powerful. P.S. I favor Virix too. |
| Captain Mutilate08-18-03, 09:05 PM | W00T! Go Virix! Yeah. Not like magic missile... they're just rocks. What about the glass spell? 3 shards to start out with, and they gain one more shard every second level. Perhaps each shard could do 1d4 damage. |
| Galen08-18-03, 09:14 PM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate W00T! Go Virix! Yeah. Not like magic missile... they're just rocks. What about the glass spell? 3 shards to start out with, and they gain one more shard every second level. Perhaps each shard could do 1d4 damage. Spell is either too weak and/or simple. Try something a little bit more global/powerful. |
| Leaves08-18-03, 09:56 PM | Originally posted by Galen Spell is either too weak and/or simple. Hold your horses, there. Why don't Virix Shamans have low level spells? For that matter, how would that work? |
| Galen08-18-03, 10:21 PM | Originally posted by Leaves Hold your horses, there. Why don't Virix Shamans have low level spells? For that matter, how would that work? The concept here is to make the shamans more prudent on what they do since resources(and magic) are scarce. To compensate for lack of numerous cheap/weak spells they have access to high powered ones on thier low level spells. To characterize them in magic and D&D this is how it would happen; Magic - Casting cost is expensive and are sorceries. D&D - Spells in the spellbook aren't that numerous but very powerful. Casting time is much longer compared to other spells. |
| Brknlf08-19-03, 10:55 AM | These guys are looking pretty cool - I just wanted to make a comment on the D&D side of converting this race to game use. D&D - Spells in the spellbook aren't that numerous but very powerful. Casting time is much longer compared to other spells. This is an iffy subject. It bypasses progression that is the staple of a D&D class. Also, insta access to powerful spells, regardless of casting time, would make this a sought after class. Likewise, it couldn't be a good PrC as its being said that the Virix are practically born into their caste in life (soldier, worker, intellect). Why not make Shaman (and even the other castes) more like a progressive template that Virix characters can choose take. The Virix Shaman template gives an ecl (effective character level) of x2 (so a 5th level mage Virix Shaman would be ecl 10). They could gain spell-like abilities (useable once per day) at certain levels of HD. The 1st level ability could be the glass shard spell that is similar to magic missile - 1d6 per HD, divided into as many shards as the character likes. A 10th level mage Virix Shaman could toss out a glass shard spell for 10d6 points of damage divided as it chooses. Doesn't sound like much for a character fo ecl 20, but consider that the other 10 levels gave the Shaman even more powerful spells other thatn the 10d6 glass shard spell. The Shaman obviously would favor magic using types. The Soldier template could favor fighting types (perhaps with bonus abilities that make them more effective fighters) and the Worker template could favor classes that rely on more skills (rogues, bards, rangers, etc.) Just something to consider, Richie |
| Captain Mutilate08-19-03, 06:34 PM | Well this could be a beginner's spell that is taught to young ones with the gift, to gauge their power and to help develop their control over sand. If it's too weak, it could be 1d4+1 |
| Galen08-19-03, 09:10 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf <snip> This is an iffy subject. It bypasses progression that is the staple of a D&D class. Also, insta access to powerful spells, regardless of casting time, would make this a sought after class. Likewise, it couldn't be a good PrC as its being said that the Virix are practically born into their caste in life (soldier, worker, intellect). <snip> Just something to consider, Richie Just a comparison to further explain my point and show a more balanced outlook on them. A level 10 Virix Shaman comparted to a mage of the level would only have an 6th to 8th times less when it comes to number of spells. Their casting time is very slow so they are very vulnerable when casting. Their only saving grace is that if the casting is successful then the opponent is in major trouble since the spell cast is quite powerful. Admittedly having a caste system limits the flexibility if they are used but I'm hoping we can work something out by increasing their specialty so although you're limited to a soldier, you can do a lot of things compared to fighters of other races. |
| Brknlf08-20-03, 09:19 AM | A level 10 Virix Shaman comparted to a mage of the level would only have an 6th to 8th times less when it comes to number of spells That's just it see, you're making it a special case class called Virix Shaman, that doesn't work in D&D. Race and Class are chosen seperately; in the current rules sets any race can choose to be a part of any class. I think I see what makes it more a problem then it needs to be. They're being created and immediately concerns are given to D&D and M:tG conversions. It was only leading to a problem for D&D people because I'm not sure if you understand D&D persay. To give them specific access to certain spells as a class, cleric would work great as a representative (not actuality) of the Virix Shaman because they have access to domain spells - they could have access to domain lists like Sun, Fire, Strength. Note, I am not applying domains to this world creation project, I'm offering an effective conversion from this world into D&D. There's a fine difference there. Why not create the Virix more completely before considering game stats? As soon as they were given spells of various levels, it started to affect how people viewed them and people started discussing what class and what level spells, using D&D game terminology. Don't give them named spells just yet, why not just discuss Virix magic as its own entity. It could be said that 'they have control over the sands about them to an awesome effect, far greater than any other race in the world'. People could discuss what cool effects Virix Shaman spells are known to have, and these spells need not bare any resemblance whatsoever to D&D or M:tG spells. Later on the spells could be converted to close proximity within the rules of either game. I think the point is more to enjoy creating the world and then convert it, not converting while creating because that will mix it all up with D&D and M:tG stuff that doesn't necessarily work together. I think the Virix Shaman is coming out well just in saying they tend to have limited access to their array of magical ability, but they have total dominion over their desert environments. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-20-03, 03:07 PM | QOUTE Why not create the Virix more completely before considering game stats? As soon as they were given spells of various levels, it started to affect how people viewed them and people started discussing what class and what level spells, using D&D game terminology. Don't give them named spells just yet, why not just discuss Virix magic as its own entity. It could be said that 'they have control over the sands about them to an awesome effect, far greater than any other race in the world'. People could discuss what cool effects Virix Shaman spells are known to have, and these spells need not bare any resemblance whatsoever to D&D or M:tG spells. Later on the spells could be converted to close proximity within the rules of either game. ------------------------------------------------------ I totally agree http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/jaerc.txt |
| Galen08-20-03, 08:37 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf That's just it see, you're making it a special case class called Virix Shaman, that doesn't work in D&D. Race and Class are chosen seperately; in the current rules sets any race can choose to be a part of any class. I think I see what makes it more a problem then it needs to be. They're being created and immediately concerns are given to D&D and M:tG conversions. It was only leading to a problem for D&D people because I'm not sure if you understand D&D persay. To give them specific access to certain spells as a class, cleric would work great as a representative (not actuality) of the Virix Shaman because they have access to domain spells - they could have access to domain lists like Sun, Fire, Strength. Note, I am not applying domains to this world creation project, I'm offering an effective conversion from this world into D&D. There's a fine difference there. Why not create the Virix more completely before considering game stats? As soon as they were given spells of various levels, it started to affect how people viewed them and people started discussing what class and what level spells, using D&D game terminology. Don't give them named spells just yet, why not just discuss Virix magic as its own entity. It could be said that 'they have control over the sands about them to an awesome effect, far greater than any other race in the world'. People could discuss what cool effects Virix Shaman spells are known to have, and these spells need not bare any resemblance whatsoever to D&D or M:tG spells. Later on the spells could be converted to close proximity within the rules of either game. I think the point is more to enjoy creating the world and then convert it, not converting while creating because that will mix it all up with D&D and M:tG stuff that doesn't necessarily work together. I think the Virix Shaman is coming out well just in saying they tend to have limited access to their array of magical ability, but they have total dominion over their desert environments. Admittedly my D&D knowledge is very rusty(long time I haven't played). Very well, we'll leave the import to game later on and concentrate on discussion about history, social and personal discussion about them. I think we left on how they interact with other races/nomad groups and how they try to survive. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-21-03, 07:57 PM | Do they hiss? Do they have any taboos? Do they have any tattoes ( for honored heros or shamans)? Do they have a monotheisitc religon ( sun god)or are their gods of Sand , water , fertiltily , and strenght ( and others)? What is the sun gods name? What kind of names do they have? What kind of TRIBE names do they have? ------------------------ These still remain to be worked out. |
| Leaves08-22-03, 10:48 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc Do they hiss? {SNIP} What is the sun gods name? What kind of names do they have? What kind of TRIBE names do they have? These are all language questions. As far as hissing, I think the main issue is that it is very cliche to have a reptilian race that hisses. This is both - and +. Bad, because cliches are so . . . um, cliche. We don't want our lizard race to be like every other lizard race. Also, people may automatically assume that Virix hiss because they are reptilian, and we'll have to explain that they don't. Hissing could also be good, because everyone will automatically have something about the Virix to connect to. For developing a language style in general (mostly for names), I suggest we come up with the Virix alphabet. An alphabet makes it easy to make sure the Virix names all have the same flavor, and lets you do a simple Virix accent. For example, Japanese has no "L" sound. When Japanese students speak English, they replace all the Ls with Rs, so "I really like lions" becomes "I reery rike rions" (Very approximately!). Instant Japanese accent. So, we already know the Virix have: I R V X (which is really K + S, so we have K and S) Any more letters we want to add? How about some we want to definately leave out? If anybody wants to look at some ideas for languages/sounds, here (http://www.ancientscripts.com/phonetics.html), and here (http://www.zompist.com/kit.html) are cool websites I've found. . Do they have any taboos? Do they have any tattoes ( for honored heros or shamans)? Do they have a monotheisitc religon ( sun god)or are their gods of Sand , water , fertiltily , and strenght ( and others)? Somebody already mentioned that the Virix were going to have complex patterns in their scales, so tattoos wouldn't be necessary. I have no ideas for taboos right now. I think a wide pantheon, as opposed to just one god, is more interesting. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-22-03, 11:09 PM | I imagined that they had a very complex language of perhaps 40 letters ( assuming no capital/small divison and no cursive version). I have made many languages so I will atempt to help soon. Also I am lean toward a natrualistic language just because non-natrual are so hard to memorize. I also dont think they should have any hard stops. |
| Leaves08-23-03, 06:33 AM | Lots of letters is fine with me! I recommend we use lots of the Russian "hushers" especially if the Verix have a hissing voice. Those are the CH, SH, SHCH, ZH, KH sounds. Maybe we could add a couple kinds of "clicks" too. By hard stops, that's like P, D, and G? This topic could get very complicated. Maybe we should start a new thread for the language? |
| Captain Mutilate08-23-03, 08:44 AM | Yeah. I'm no expert on language, but couldnt K be a hard stop? They could have a rune language, but the spoken SHOULD be a mix of clicks and hisses. I could We could always just switch around the alphabet. Like the letter A is actually C, B is D, C is F... Twould make for some interesting words lol. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-23-03, 04:36 PM | I also dont think they should have any hard stops. Nevermind that statement:embarrass they should have hard stops such as P , D and G. K is a hard start;) . I think any language type is good , But if it vary from The King James (TKJ)alphabet ( As it should)( English , French , German , etc) someone will have to put up a page and it won`t be me. ( If it is non-TKG we should work on one letter at a time workig out what it loks like via scanner. But for now lets work on language not alphabet. I am making a new thread for this entitled Virix Language. |
| Dream Spinner08-23-03, 07:59 PM | An idea for the gods and mythology of the Virix, told in myth style: The Beginning of The Road In ancient times, the Virix lived joyfully in meadows of fresh grass and endless game. The sun god was happy along with them and shined beautiful gentle sunlight upon them constantly, driving away the cold darkness. There lives were a peaceful constant. There was always food, always the grass, always the cloudless sky, always the warming sun. But one day, the sun god became so happy with his contented Virix that he started crying tears of joy. These tears fell upon the Virix and they didn’t understand what it was. They were scared by this phenomenon and hid. After the tears ended, there were some gentle streams. At first, the Virix didn’t even dare cross these streams. But then, they watched as the animals they hunted daily put their mouths into the waters and sucked some into their mouths and swallowed it. The Virix were amazed. The braver ones came forth and mimicked the animals. They found the water to be refreshing and wonderful. Upon seeing their fellow Virix unharmed by the water, and in fact gladdened upon taking it in, the rest of the Virix came forth and drank joyfully. All except a few male Virix. They feared the tears of the sun god and saw water’s effect upon the rest. Their paled colors brightened and the old ones acted as if children, playing in the stream waters. These male Virix suspected that the sun god was actually testing them. The animals didn’t have the sense to withdraw from the disease of water and now many of their fellow Virix has been taken by the pleasures of the water. These males knew that unless they did something about it, these diseased Virix, deserving their plague for their inability to hold back, will spread the plague unto them. So they did the necessary. They killed the Virix and the animals and burned their corpses. They then set fire upon the meadow around them, for it has taken the water into its soil as well. Horrified, the sun god veiled his face as he cried for the dead. The Virix, alone in the dried grounds, screamed as darkness fell upon them and the brightness of the sun fell to a paleness similar to that of the skin of the Virix before drinking water. A horrid coldness appeared the air as the tears fell upon the burned grounds. These Virix turned to the paled god and begged for deliverance from more punishment. They had even purged the land of the scourge of water. Why were they being punished further? Sadness turned to anger as the sun god listened to their pleas. They purged the land of a plague?! They dared to suggest the sun god delivered disease to the land, he will show them true affliction. He pulled away his veil and released all his heat upon the lands. The water of the land vanished before the heat and the few Virix were happy again. The cold was gone and the water was going as well! The heat still continued though and they began to weaken. The sun god then took the ashes of the destroyed, paled in the heat, and spread them across the land so that everywhere the punished looked, they will be reminded of their evil. Blinded by the sands, burned by the light, frozen by the darkness; they laid upon the ashes, almost dead. The last part of the sun god’s punishment was that because they thought water a plague, the sun god made it one. It will plague their minds and bodies with need for it until death came. Finally, he raised three women from the ashes to lead the Virix on the road of atonement. They continue to this day working and suffering until they have made amends for the sin of their ancient ancestors. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-24-03, 12:53 PM | I like it. Ideas for Taboos: 1 Birds specifically Feathers 2 Wasting Water 3 Fear of Leaves;) 4 Crying 5 Wasting Arrows 6 Letting someone outside their tribe see them make food 7 Insulting their god 8 Sacrifice 9 Slavery? 10 Many-legged insects These are all just off the top of my head and many are not good , however please which if any you like and post some yourself. Obviously they do not have any taboos regarding sex or death. |
| Leaves08-24-03, 03:28 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc Ideas for Taboos: 1 Birds specifically Feathers Captain Mutilate already mentioned wanting to make feathers sacred objects, and I am attached to my virix falconers, so, no. 2 Wasting Water That's only practical. 3 Fear of Leaves;) Haha. 4 Crying That has possibilities. 5 Wasting Arrows Once again, that's only practical. But there has to be more to it to make it a taboo, as opposed to just something virix usually do. If the Virix are absolutely required to recover any arrow that doesn't hit a target, no matter where it lands, that's a taboo. But it seems impractical, since arrows break all the time. Why recover something useless? 6 Letting someone outside their tribe see them make food I don't know. It has possibilities, but I don't see the virix as being very concerned with privacy, seeing as they sleep and live in communal tents. 7 Insulting their god And? What happens to them if they do? If a member of another race insults their god, do they have to attack them? 8 Sacrifice ??? 9 Slavery? Owning slaves, being slaves, or both? I can see a heavy stigma being attached to slaves and former slaves. Maybe former slaves aren't ever allowed to be full members of the tribe. 10 Many-legged insects Eating, touching, talking about, seeing? Just an object isn't a taboo, it's some kind of action that's taboo. I think the very obvious taboo is this: Females are forbidden to be warriors ;) That could be extended: maybe females are forbidden to use or even touch most weapons. Maybe shamans and female workers are only allowed to use a quarterstaff and their bare hands to defend themselves. I could see a cult of female monks and monk/shamans arising to get around the taboo. Considering the origin myth (very good, by the way) there might be taboos about burning. Perhaps virix believe that their souls will not find peace in the afterlife if their bodies are burned. There could aslo be taboos about touching or associating with living burn victims. Perhaps anybody who is scarred by burns is treated as a leper or an unclean person. |
| Dream Spinner08-25-03, 12:28 AM | Originally posted by Leaves I think the very obvious taboo is this: Females are forbidden to be warriors ;) That could be extended: maybe females are forbidden to use or even touch most weapons. Maybe shamans and female workers are only allowed to use a quarterstaff and their bare hands to defend themselves. I could see a cult of female monks and monk/shamans arising to get around the taboo. Considering the origin myth (very good, by the way) there might be taboos about burning. Perhaps virix believe that their souls will not find peace in the afterlife if their bodies are burned. There could aslo be taboos about touching or associating with living burn victims. Perhaps anybody who is scarred by burns is treated as a leper or an unclean person. I don't think there would be a whole cult of females trying to get around not being warriors. They'd be proud to be the ones appointed by the sun god to lead the stupid evil men to redemption. And thanks for the compliment. :) I agree with the burn taboo. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-25-03, 01:12 PM | The burn taboo is great. And yes I know all of my hastily-posted-at-a-late-hour taboo were not good. And I agree with Dreamspinner. No cult. Maybe former slaves aren't ever allowed to be full members of the tribe. ---- Good Idea |
| Galen08-26-03, 09:13 PM | Personal opinion only but I don't think giving them a different language would be very beneficial in the overall lookout of things. What happens when they have to interact to different races? I see some major complication here so simplifying it by letting them have a common language might serve a better purpose. If there is need to be subtle communication to prevent suspicion against other races then signs such as lowering body temperature or pheromones would serve better purpose. As for the taboo the ff are those I completely agree: Wasting water/material - very obvious when everything is scarce. Sacriledge against the gods - What race wouldn't hate being mocked about their religion? Those I don't agree: Slavery - I don't think slavery serves any purpose but excess useless baggage. Anything they need done they can do it so having slaves to do them for you is wasting resources. Leaves - Sorry leaves but any edible plant matter is definitely going to the stomach. ;) ;) ;) Letting others see them cook food - why being shy on something you normally do? Things I recommend adding: Letting others see important ceremonies(religious and/or social) - For them it's sacred and only Virix should experience them. Interfering/meddling with other's affair - Virix are nomads so they respect other's custom as well as expected to be respected on theirs. Non-intervention is a way of conserving their resources. |
| Brknlf08-27-03, 09:13 AM | Personal opinion only but I don't think giving them a different language would be very beneficial in the overall lookout of things. What happens when they have to interact to different races? I see some major complication here so simplifying it by letting them have a common language might serve a better purpose. If there is need to be subtle communication to prevent suspicion against other races then signs such as lowering body temperature or pheromones would serve better purpose. However, giving them a different language would be a little more realistic. Being seperated from other races initially in their desert, it is logical that their langauge developed independently from that of other races. However, it could be said that their palate and vocal chords allow them the capability of speaking other languages or a common tongue, if there is one. The common folk of this race that hardly deal with outsiders would have little reason to know other languages, but the merchants (or shamans who conduct external affairs) would know a language to communicate with outsiders. The would still have their own language and dialects, but the do have the capability to learn and communicate with other races too. Just a suggestion. |
| Dream Spinner08-27-03, 03:36 PM | Originally posted by Galen Slavery - I don't think slavery serves any purpose but excess useless baggage. Anything they need done they can do it so having slaves to do them for you is wasting resources. I agree with this. And what about burial? |
| Captain Mutilate08-27-03, 08:51 PM | I say the shamans make the sand liquid glass, and they put the dead virix in the liquid glass, and when he sinks a bit, make the glass hard. Sort of like a coffin... if you cant get the picture, think about a mosquito trapped in amber - that would be the desired effect, only more... graceful? |
| Galen08-27-03, 09:30 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf However, giving them a different language would be a little more realistic. Being seperated from other races initially in their desert, it is logical that their langauge developed independently from that of other races. However, it could be said that their palate and vocal chords allow them the capability of speaking other languages or a common tongue, if there is one. The common folk of this race that hardly deal with outsiders would have little reason to know other languages, but the merchants (or shamans who conduct external affairs) would know a language to communicate with outsiders. The would still have their own language and dialects, but the do have the capability to learn and communicate with other races too. Just a suggestion. A small counter-argument: Desert nomads tend to have a very small vocabulary since communication isn't as important when you're only interaction is with fellow nomads. Most of the times they are laconic and body/facial expression is enough to convey what you mean. Since our race is reptilian in nature I'm thinking the hiss/grunt/growl/gurgle/body/facial/skin color is largely enough for them to communicate with each other. Foreign language is hardly used so they tend to be crude but sufficient enough to talk with other race and be understood. For the burial: That would work great. Could I suggest that during funeral service the shaman/s extract the water from the deceased so the tribe could benefit from it? ;) ;) ;) |
| Leaves08-28-03, 04:24 AM | That would work great. Could I suggest that during funeral service the shamans extract the water from the deceased so the tribe could benefit from it? You've read Dune? ;) I like the idea of the burial ceremony, especially for the most important members of the tribe. About language things: First, I don't think that having a different language would really isolate them from trade with other people, any more than it has in human history. I didn't mean to imply that they wouldn't be able to speak other languages, just that they would speak with an accent. Second, regarding "nomads tend to have a very small vocabulary" since they have both magic and religion to talk about, they should have a large enough vocabulary to count as a language. It's not like we are going to write up a full-blown language, Tolkien-style (I'm not, anyway!). Just the sounds, maybe a few words for flavor. About slavery: Holding slaves would probably be rare. However, the taboo could still apply to virix who are captured and sold into slavery by other races, orcs, humans, etc. And in their trade with other races, virix might look down on slaveowners (they will inevitably encounter them somewhere). |
| Galen08-28-03, 05:07 AM | Originally posted by Leaves You've read Dune? ;) I like the idea of the burial ceremony, especially for the most important members of the tribe. About language things: First, I don't think that having a different language would really isolate them from trade with other people, any more than it has in human history. I didn't mean to imply that they wouldn't be able to speak other languages, just that they would speak with an accent. Second, regarding "nomads tend to have a very small vocabulary" since they have both magic and religion to talk about, they should have a large enough vocabulary to count as a language. It's not like we are going to write up a full-blown language, Tolkien-style (I'm not, anyway!). Just the sounds, maybe a few words for flavor. About slavery: Holding slaves would probably be rare. However, the taboo could still apply to virix who are captured and sold into slavery by other races, orcs, humans, etc. And in their trade with other races, virix might look down on slaveowners (they will inevitably encounter them somewhere). Have you read my sig? ;) ;) ;) As for funerals death is a solemns moment not just because it is a death of a dearly departed one but also as a great loss for the community. My suggestion is that virix tribes honor their departed ones by preserving making the deceased part of them(thus the acquisition of water) and preserve them by encasing their dried remains in glass. Okay, I'll fess up. The main reason why I prefer not to tackle a different language is because of what I've read on the spinoff thread. Currently nothing is getting done there and I rather not let this stagnate as language is being talked about. Very interesting concept. We could work that out. One question, what is a virix characteristic that makes them worth capturing and enslaving? Don't bother with the explanation of them being at home to the desert life and can be scouts. Too cliche. ;) ;) ;) |
| Brknlf08-28-03, 10:11 AM | Originally posted by Galen A small counter-argument: Desert nomads tend to have a very small vocabulary since communication isn't as important when you're only interaction is with fellow nomads. Most of the times they are laconic and body/facial expression is enough to convey what you mean. Since our race is reptilian in nature I'm thinking the hiss/grunt/growl/gurgle/body/facial/skin color is largely enough for them to communicate with each other. Foreign language is hardly used so they tend to be crude but sufficient enough to talk with other race and be understood. True, but I wouldn't think the Wodaabe and the Bedouin peoples communicate that well together, though they are both desert cultures. They might understand a few facial expressions but nonverbal communication is just as cultural as verbal communication. If the Wodaabe started dancing for a Bedouin woman, she would think he is absolutely crazy. I have to admit, I'm not looking at the spinoff language thread for the Virix. I haven't much looked at the other WCP threads as this is the only one I find interesting (and it does seem to be accomplishing a lot, but again, I liked these centaur lizard guys since you brought it up). Saying they have their own language doesn't mean it needs to be developed from the get go. When Tolkien made his elves, did he write some of the books first or did he spend time making the language before he even considered writing stories about his elves? Also, shouldn't they have a location in the world? And I don't want to hear, 'why haven't talked about the size of the world', because that will lead no where (as it always does) and the list will become stagnant again for a few more months. Do they have neighbors that they trade with (humans, dwarves, elves, some new race of four-armed bird like creatures that live in the huge canyons on the edge of the Virix desert)? Do they have any resources that they export, anything they need to import or things they like to trade for (is plastic rare and they trade valuable gems for it?)? There are numerous tribes right? What are they (if the Virix are Shamanistic are they spiritualistic - maybe the tribes are clans that revere a different desert animal, like Caracal Tribe, Leopard Tribe, Fox Tribe, Camel Tribe, etc.) and what makes them 'individual' tribes (does one group have males that wear feather necklaces while another puts red ochre on their scales when they fight (blue ochre on their scales for dancing)?)? Which tribe is considered the biggest? How do the tribes interact, is their a council of elders that meet to control the ranges of the individual tribes (I don't recall, did someone mention an council of elders already)? How scarce is water in their desert, what kind of desert do they live in (hot sand, rocky terrain, arctic, a colder desert like Gobi, or something like Sahara)? Whether or not anyone agrees on the taboos and such, I like reading this thread. |
| Leaves08-28-03, 04:48 PM | Originally posted by Galen One question, what is a virix characteristic that makes them worth capturing and enslaving? Don't bother with the explanation of them being at home to the desert life and can be scouts. Too cliche. ;) ;) ;) I think slave-holders who captured virix shamans would instantly put them to death, because magic-users are too dangerous and hard to control. However, by what I've seen so far, it seems like the warriors and workers both are physically strong, probably can subsist on little water and poor-quality food (yes, because they live in the desert), and the warriors have thick natural armor, too. They'd be valuable workers and guards, so long as you could figure out how to control them. (By temperature? If you shipped them off to a cold northern climate, and put them to work indoors, in a mine, for example, there'd be little danger they'd escape.) The reason there is a spinoff thread for language is so that the two/three of us who are interested in language don't bog down the rest of the conversation. Don't let it worry you if progress is slow - just be thankful we aren't discussing individual vowels in here! http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafsmile.txt |
| Dream Spinner08-28-03, 05:01 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf When Tolkien made his elves, did he write some of the books first or did he spend time making the language before he even considered writing stories about his elves? OT, but didn't he make the languages first? Anyway, glass could possibly be held under great respect. The glass was made from the original Virix's dead bodies' ashes. Since the Virix believes that myth, it has become the truth (the ancient history and prehistory of this world is going to be increadibly warped). So, what happens when they finally work off the evil, though that may be like still a long time in the future. The entire desert becomes the green paradise it was before? What would they think of suicide? This is coming from what Leaves said about they being trapped as slaves working in mines warm enough for them to be able to work for the rest of their lives. I'd like to think paleness be a turn-off for the Virix, as it is like the veiled sun. Bright or dark colors would be desired. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-28-03, 08:44 PM | QOUTE Since the Virix believes that myth, it has become the truth (the ancient history and prehistory of this world is going to be increadibly warped). So, what happens when they finally work off the evil, though that may be like still a long time in the future. The entire desert becomes the green paradise it was before? ------------- Yep , but we probably wont have to worry about that....for a while at least. Ahhh I can picture now : The World well created and the Creators occasionly adding details.... then come the RSEs ( Relams Shattering Events for those of you who dont speak Faerunian) where we go back and change things. |
| Galen08-28-03, 09:44 PM | Terrain & Other Races We all know Virix will interact with other races w/c we believe will contain normal social norms and that's enough info for now. we don't know how big the world is but we know poart of the landmass will have desert on it because of this thread. I'd prefer we concentrate on Virix first and how they live in the desert because terrain and other races will be discussed soon. Tribes We already talked about that and we did come up with a way to differentiate them. Tribes are differentiated by skin pattern/coloration and feather adornment(just can't remember w/c page we did that). Suicide I think for Virix suicide is a shameful/disgraceful way of dying. It is a waste of manpower and resources. If you commit suicide your body will be fed to scavengers of the desert. Slavery I don't know about how the rest of you think of virix but I envision them as a proud race ready to fight to the death rather than be captured and subdued. If slevery of virix is considered I think they came from aboduction of babies/toddlers where their sensce of pride is still malleable so they can be subdues. I think we're almost finished talking about culture. The only thing left are: 1) how tribes interact with each other 2) how virix interact with other races 3) a unifying force that binds the tribes After those we can do a summary to keep things properly tabulated and documented. |
| Brknlf08-29-03, 09:03 AM | OT, but didn't he make the languages first? You're probably right, that doesn't support my comment that languages can be made later :) However, most fantasy game races do not have developed languages that we can actually use. My point is that we can merely say they speak their own language (maybe even with various different dialects amongst different tribes even) and that they are capable of speaking and communicating in a 'common' tongue without having to develop the language. Then if there are people that join later that really love developing languages, they can help with creating a distinct Virix language. It doesn't matter either way :) |
| ICE-T08-31-03, 06:26 AM | hey.. i just read this thread and i think it is very cool :bow::bow: a little suggest about burrial/glassification: wasn't the skins of the death used for "coats" and armor and relic's (those of great heroe's) so my question is as there are very little resources (adn the skin thing) are dead body's kinda sacred (not the skin and water obviously) or are the dead bodies considereed resources cuz they could provide food(flesh) and building material - dunno what else to write- (bones) and the skins was talked about so, is it an honor to be burried whole and the only point where the virix actually waste resources in respect to the fallen? or is it an honor to be used even after your dead so you serve your tribe in live as well as dead? i would suggest the latest and then make it a minor/greater ceremony to glory the passing of a friand and keep them memorised and not just burried somewhere in the dessert then eating great heroes brain/heart could be like gaining their strength and thereby passing on a part of them |
| Galen09-01-03, 12:36 AM | Originally posted by ICE-T hey.. i just read this thread and i think it is very cool :bow::bow: a little suggest about burrial/glassification: wasn't the skins of the death used for "coats" and armor and relic's (those of great heroe's) so my question is as there are very little resources (adn the skin thing) are dead body's kinda sacred (not the skin and water obviously) or are the dead bodies considereed resources cuz they could provide food(flesh) and building material - dunno what else to write- (bones) and the skins was talked about so, is it an honor to be burried whole and the only point where the virix actually waste resources in respect to the fallen? or is it an honor to be used even after your dead so you serve your tribe in live as well as dead? i would suggest the latest and then make it a minor/greater ceremony to glory the passing of a friand and keep them memorised and not just burried somewhere in the dessert then eating great heroes brain/heart could be like gaining their strength and thereby passing on a part of them Glad you could join us. I think we already tackled that. During the burial virix acquire the water of the deceased to be used by the tribe and enclose the dried up remians in a glassy coffin to be buried in the desert sand. So in a way the answer is a mix of being used by the tribe and honored burial. I'm thinking everyone, would it be better if the ceremony of burial happens anywhere or the tribe brings the deceased to a places where all the deceased ones are buried? When I mean places I mean something like a cemetery. |
| Obsidianjaerc09-02-03, 06:34 PM | I dont think there should be a place where all the deceased are buried. The Virix are a moving people and to return to one place - if it was not a source of shade or water- would be difficult and denote great honor on to the buried to have been carried to an out of the way spot. |
| Galen09-02-03, 09:15 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc I dont think there should be a place where all the deceased are buried. The Virix are a moving people and to return to one place - if it was not a source of shade or water- would be difficult and denote great honor on to the buried to have been carried to an out of the way spot. I should have been more specific in my suggestion. I didn't meant they all bury their dead in one place. I suggest they bury their dead on specific places. I realize that if the virix bury their dead anywhere it might come a time where the desert would be too littered with dead 6 feet under. I'm thinking they bury the dead on places like rock outcrops or sandpits not on one specific place(that would be incredibly tedious to honor the dead especially if they are months away from that place). They might not be very common but possibly at worst they are a week distance from one. |
| Leaves09-02-03, 10:46 PM | I think ICE-T did bring up a few new points worth talking about. It does seem like we're moving toward a trend where there is very little left to be buried! The skins are tanned and re-used (thanks for reminding me of that; I'd forgotten) the water is recovered. I think bones are probably too bulky to carry around, but there might be customs to keep the teeth of the deceased. I want to say that I don't think there should be a widespread custom of canibalism. Canibalism is taboo in so many human cultures (and for many animals) because you can get so many nasty diseases from eating your own kind. I just don't feel it would be natural to say that canibalism is commonplace for all virix. Some musings about the mythos and burial customs: The virix (probably) believe that after death, the souls of the worthy go on to an afterlife that resembles the paradise before the Veiled One unleashed his wrath. Since the souls are going to live in paradise, they no longer need the gifts that the Veiled One provided them in order to be able to live in the harsh desert. They don't need their thick, scaley hides, so their skins are tanned and preserved for other uses. They don't need the water that came from the Veiled One's tears, so that is taken for the use of the tribe. They don't need the sharp teeth and claws to defend themselves, because the virix have no enemies in paradise. They don't need their magic, so the magic is symbolically taken from the bodies of shamans by removing and eating the heart. The remainder is locked away from the harsh desert environment by sealing it in glass, and the souls of the departed are free to go on to paradise untouched by the trials of the world. Considering the paradise which the Veiled One has prepared for the virix, going on to the afterlife carrying the tools of desert survival is considered deeply disrespectful. It indicates a lack of trust that the Veiled One will provide. The worthy dead who expect to reach paradise never take anything with them. Sometimes virix desecrate the graves of their enemies by leaving tools and water, in the hopes that the gatekeepers of paradise will think the soul was not faithful and refuse to let him in. Bodies are only buried intact, with weapons and equipment, in very rare cases where the family or tribe believes the person died dishonorably, with sins on his soul, but they still loved him and hope that he finds some comfort in the afterlife, even if he cannot enter paradise. In this case the deceased is buried unskinned, with all of his water, and with weapons and equipment too, so that he will be able to face what comes after. The family is allowed to do this also because the shamans are reluctant to use water that is tainted by dishonor or sin. Comments? |
| ICE-T09-03-03, 11:16 AM | nice... about using the bones, i did not mean to just carry around ... "'ey, look at my nice jaw-bone-thing!"' what i ment was to use the big bones as a substitude of wood cuz there are not a lot of forests in the dessert a few palms around maybe but no forests so bones for handles of weapons and their like a weapon could be like a leg-bone with big claws tied on it to assamble something ála a spiked club By the way are metal common or very rare in the dessert? |
| Leaves09-03-03, 02:08 PM | How strong are bones? I get the impression that they become fairly brittle and fragile if they get completely dried out. But that's probably just from Indiana Jones movies, so who knows. I think metal is no more common or rare in the desert than anywhere else ;) The problem is fuel: in order to purify ore or forge weapons you need a very very hot furnace, and in order to get it that hot blacksmiths need lots of wood and charcoal (which also comes from wood). Of course, the virix have some pretty powerful magic dealling with heat, so they may be able to fuel their forges magically. |
| Dream Spinner09-03-03, 04:49 PM | I like the thing with the moving onto an afterlife that resembles the pre-sin world of the Virix and not bringing along things they didn't need in the paradise before. And it would make sense if they died trying to work off the sin of their ancient ancestors. They've earned their paradise in death. And upon the finishing of the atonement, they will all return to live in paradise. This could even be a fusing of planes. The Virix afterlife plane fuses with the Material, replacing the deserts the Virix lives in. By the way, what should be the sun god's name. The sun god is only veiled at night, becoming the moon, if any of you didn't notice that before. Yes, for the Virix the sun and the moon are one and the same. I thought that would be a neat unique thing for them. Fire (used incorrectly) and sloth seems like what would be the worst things to the Virix. And Virix tribes wouldn't fight, would they? They're all on the same journey of paying for the sins of their ancestors. |
| Obsidianjaerc09-03-03, 06:27 PM | The plane fusing is a great idea. It also occured to me to ask if the desert is the Virix punishment - hence the worst place for them- wouldn`t their desert on the Shadow plane be a paradise to them since it is twisted and warped from its origonal state , often t just the opposite? Sorry if I wasn`t clear , Jaerc |
| Galen09-03-03, 10:08 PM | Metals and other Items I'm thinking that since they are low in resources they use hides, feathers, ore and minerals they find in the desert to trade with merchants for metal and other needs they have. I believe the shamans can generate that mcuh heat to create a forge but what would working so near a furnace affect the virix. Sure they need heat to be active but would more heat be good for them? Bones Bones do get brittle in time unless they are petrified. They aren't much of use IMHO. Afterlife I completely agree with the afterlife and the fusing of the planes. I'm thinking that their paradise is a place where good things from planes are merged together to form a perfect place for them to live for all eternity. Of course dishonor in death means they are sent to the darkest and coldest pit of the void(their version of hell). |
| Leaves09-04-03, 05:00 AM | Fighting between tribes might originate from religious disputes, or fighting over resources in especially lean times. I don't think there would be any shortage of reasons if somebody wanted to explore a storyline of an intertribal virix war. But for the time being I'll assume that the tribes mostly do get along. The fusing planes idea - interesting. We're talking far, far in the future, though, is that right? A prophecy that when the virix repay their sins the heavens will come down to earth and the deserts will bloom would be an interesting detail. About the virix and the shadow plane: A strange idea, to be sure. I'm not sure that the nature of the Shadow Plane should be linked to any specific culture, but should be more universally twisted. And I don't think the shadow plane should be an easy escape for the virix. There's no specific reason it should be so, but I've always thought that the shadow plane should always be kind of nasty compared to the real world. Not a paradise, no matter how awful the real world is, just a different set of hazards. About the virix hell: I don't think it would be cold, so much as it would be cold and burning at the same time. Maybe like the surface of the moon, where it's 100s of degrees in the sun, but well below freezing in the shadows. That would be miserable! |
| Galen09-04-03, 05:20 AM | Originally posted by Leaves Fighting between tribes might originate from religious disputes, or fighting over resources in especially lean times. I don't think there would be any shortage of reasons if somebody wanted to explore a storyline of an intertribal virix war. But for the time being I'll assume that the tribes mostly do get along. <snip> About the virix hell: I don't think it would be cold, so much as it would be cold and burning at the same time. Maybe like the surface of the moon, where it's 100s of degrees in the sun, but well below freezing in the shadows. That would be miserable! I agree they don't fight amonst themselves very often. Waste of manpower and resources. How about if they have any dispute they send their best warrior/shaman to represent their tribe and they fight a duel. Mostly the duels end when one side gives up and rarely do duels end in death. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I thought of that as well but resorted to a cold hell when I can't figure out how to seperate the very hot and very cold because i'm thinking they are eternaly falling into the void. Maybe letting them end up in eternal heat/cold on a barren land is a better idea. |
| Leaves09-04-03, 03:26 PM | Duels are a great idea for settling disputes without wasting resources. Shamanic duels are especially fun to consider. I think everyone likes the concept of dueling magic; it's one of those recurring fantasy themes you never get sick of. I thought it would be important to incorporate both burning and freezing into virix hell, since those are the dual struggles they face in life. Funny that you thought of the same thing. I had an interesting thought while thinking about ways to combine extreme heat and cold. I just remembered a science fiction short story I read a long time ago about life on the planet Mercury. Mercury spins very fast, having a day and night in the space of an hour, and the point of the story was that the Mercurians had to live their lives extraordinarily quickly in the course of the short days. So, what if the virix hell was like that? Fifteen minuts of day with intense, scorching heat, followed instantly by fifteen minutes of bone-chilling cold night, followed by day again. |
| Obsidianjaerc09-04-03, 06:40 PM | Who would have created the Virix hell? The Vieled One? If the greatest punishment he could visit on them was the desert , wouldn`t their hell just be another , harsher desert with places that freeze? Also I agree about the Shadow Plane thing was a bad idea. What should duels consisit of? Are they lethel? |
| Galen09-04-03, 08:36 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc Who would have created the Virix hell? The Vieled One? If the greatest punishment he could visit on them was the desert , wouldn`t their hell just be another , harsher desert with places that freeze? Also I agree about the Shadow Plane thing was a bad idea. What should duels consisit of? Are they lethel? After careful checking I just realize that it might not be really that good an idea to create a hell of alternating cold and hot. There's more to balancing the 2 factors to simplify their agony(weird huh!). Why not create a barren desert where it's eternally dark and the temperature is icy cold without a place to shelter and obtain heat? Much more simplier and far more effective IMHO. As I said before duels happen between 2 of the tribes best warrior and shamans. Rarely do the duels end in death but the fight is fast hard and brutal. Shaman duels are rare since thier magical ability is strong but they are one of the most anticipated matches since they are a sight to behold. |
| Dream Spinner09-04-03, 10:58 PM | Again, the sun god shouldn't be The Veiled One as he is veiled only at night when he is the moon. On a more important note, fire was the destructive force that destroyed them and Paradise, so it seems like it should be incorporated in the anti-Paradise. I agree with the barren cold lands though, so, maybe cold fire? I don't know. |
| Leaves09-05-03, 01:01 AM | I honestly did mistake "Veiled One" to be a general epithet for the god, so whoops! Still, it's a cool name, and we have to call him something for now. Considering the power that belief can have for this world, consider this: what if the virix believe that hot and cold are the same thing? We generally think of time as a line with hot at the top and cold at the bottom: http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/lineartemp.txt But if the virix believe that hot and cold are the same, then in the "outer planes" that faith becomes reality, and temperature would be circular: http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/circulartemp.txt Or maybe that's just a really stupid idea. It would make a certain amount of sense, though. And it's a perfectly rational belief, since very cold things feel like they burn. Maybe I just think "cold fire" is nifty http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/lleafsmile.txt |
| Galen09-05-03, 02:24 AM | Originally posted by Leaves I honestly did mistake "Veiled One" to be a general epithet for the god, so whoops! Still, it's a cool name, and we have to call him something for now. Considering the power that belief can have for this world, consider this: what if the virix believe that hot and cold are the same thing? We generally think of time as a line with hot at the top and cold at the bottom: http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/lineartemp.txt But if the virix believe that hot and cold are the same, then in the "outer planes" that faith becomes reality, and temperature would be circular: http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/circulartemp.txt Or maybe that's just a really stupid idea. It would make a certain amount of sense, though. And it's a perfectly rational belief, since very cold things feel like they burn. Maybe I just think "cold fire" is nifty http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/lleafsmile.txt I think the cold fire is cool too but the hot part is definitely out. This gives me an idea, when we talk about hell we also think about demons that will torment the damned there right? What if those cold fire are some sort of demons that torments those virix that they get a hold on. instead of burning up they freeze the virix into icicles. If you want to illustrate the sun god of the virix, how about their god is in virix shape of pure light with its head sorrounded by a blinding halo. |
| Obsidianjaerc09-05-03, 06:25 PM | I like you heat idea Leaves and the demons of cold fire as well. And since the Vieled One is only one of the sun gods aspects ( as the moon) what should he be called normally. Also how do Virix react to eclipses of the sun and moon? |
| Dream Spinner09-05-03, 08:03 PM | Black tears. While veiled, the sun god cries black tears for he truly wants the Virix to be happy and to not punish them. These tears slowly stain his face, blackening it until it is invisible in the dark sky. Then, he slowly washes the blackness away until he is completely tearfree, then he starts the cycle again. So, the partial moon could symbolize inner pain or conflict for the Virix. The full moon the standing strong despite the inner conflict and to stand by your decisions. The new moon a symbol of completely succumbing to your inner turmoil, becoming caught up in your grief. Solar eclipses could be the sun god suddenly bursting into tears, I guess. That's kind of funny though. The mighty sun god suddenly bursting into tears. Stars. What are stars? |
| Dream Spinner09-05-03, 08:09 PM | The pictures I can't see under my own account, dspinner88, but later on, when I get onto my dad's, I'll be able to see them, so I'll look at those then. |
| Galen09-12-03, 02:06 AM | So quiet. UnCon must have drained everyone's mind. |
| nick01200009-13-03, 11:21 PM | Yay! The lizard Fremen! |
| Obsidianjaerc09-16-03, 07:55 PM | So do Virix amte for life or what {http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/Jarecbump.TXT } |
| Galen09-16-03, 10:19 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc So do Virix amte for life or what {http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/Jarecbump.TXT } Um do you mean mate? If so I don't know, we never finish on how we're gonna tackle the relationship. They can be monogamous or polygamous depending on what male appeared the most appealing to mate with. |
| Leaves09-21-03, 01:07 AM | Yeah, I know I gave up with contributing to the WCP during uncon. Too much to do at once. It is true, that we never completely figured out the family life of the virix, besides saying that the males competed (annually?) in order to show who was most qualified to have children. I also got the impression that the virix live communally; they sleep together in a common tent, so "married" couples don't have private households, and I'm guessing that children are raised by the whole tribe, too. That leaves a lot of ground left to cover. The basic decission to make is whether the virix are monogomous or not. Can one virix male father children with more than one female in a single year? Or do all of the tribe's members "pair off"? There are a lot of ways to organise the marriage/competition system. I think one way that would make sense would be that for most of the year the virix travel in small bands. Every year in the spring, the many bands that make up a tribe gather together at a ritual meeting ground. The annual competitions of the males are held, and then the female leaders of each band submit bids for the males that most impressed them. The males are apportioned between the bands, and they spend the next year travelling with that band. The next year, they compete again, and might stay with the same band, or might be re-assigned to a different one. So basically the female membership of a band remains constant (mother, daughters, aunts, sisters) but the male membership of a band changes from year to year. I don't remember if this was decided, but if the virix are egg-layers, the annual gathering would be a good time to hatch the eggs, because it's the only time they stay in one place for a long period of time. |
| Obsidianjaerc09-21-03, 04:12 PM | If the Virix take tents witht them when they move , I think it would be intresting if men lived in one set of tents , and women in another - of course they would still all sleep to gether for warmth in the pit. This is borrowed from real world tribes , also if we went that way we could take another practice : the way children are rasied. A girl child stays in the mothers tent until the age of 12 , then she moves to a diffrent womens tent , until the age of maturity when she can do as she pleases. A boy child stays in the fathers tent until the age of 12 , then he moves to his mothers tent , until the age of maturity when he can do as she pleases. Usually geting his own tent. That idea probably with some modification could fit the Virix well ... or not. Give me feedback. |
| Dream Spinner09-21-03, 06:34 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc A girl child stays in the mothers tent until the age of 12 , then she moves to a diffrent womens tent , until the age of maturity when she can do as she pleases. A boy child stays in the fathers tent until the age of 12 , then he moves to his mothers tent , until the age of maturity when he can do as she pleases. Usually geting his own tent. By 12, you mean the beginning of like the Virix puberty, right? Unless Virix live just as long as humans do, then 12 is fine. And I think the boys should begin with their mothers, and move on in with their dads like at their equivalent of the human age of 9 or 10. |
| Galen09-21-03, 08:51 PM | Originally posted by Leaves The basic decission to make is whether the virix are monogomous or not. Can one virix male father children with more than one female in a single year? Or do all of the tribe's members "pair off"? There are a lot of ways to organise the marriage/competition system. I think one way that would make sense would be that for most of the year the virix travel in small bands. Every year in the spring, the many bands that make up a tribe gather together at a ritual meeting ground. The annual competitions of the males are held, and then the female leaders of each band submit bids for the males that most impressed them. The males are apportioned between the bands, and they spend the next year travelling with that band. The next year, they compete again, and might stay with the same band, or might be re-assigned to a different one. So basically the female membership of a band remains constant (mother, daughters, aunts, sisters) but the male membership of a band changes from year to year. I don't remember if this was decided, but if the virix are egg-layers, the annual gathering would be a good time to hatch the eggs, because it's the only time they stay in one place for a long period of time. Since we seem to agree that Virix males compete and prove to be the best in the gene pool to sire children then I suggest they are polygamous and marriage is not a consideration(especially since a male's competency is only good as long as he's the best). I agree on community caring of childrens since that would mean minimizing the needed manpower of taking care of them. Almost thinking the same thing here except with a couple of difference: a) They don't form into smaller bands because the smaller the tribe is, the weaker they are if they ever face an opponent. My intial guess is that one tribe is at least 100 members strong and at most 400. If one tribe is smaller than that, they can ask for volunteers from other tribe they met to join with them. If the tribe is too large chosens/volunteers are recommended to go on separate way and find a tribe to join in. b) The annual congregation is something I'm thinking about but I prefer not to talk in details until we're through answering some unanswered problems. To make it short there is an bi-annual event w/c all of the tribes congregate together on one specific place for religious/ceremonial festivities. I don't agree with egg laying because that would pin and slow the tribe down. I think live offspring would be better because after a day or 2 the mother and child can now move with the tribe. |
| Leaves09-22-03, 03:58 AM | DS: I think Jaerc was describing a real culture on Earth, not the virix. Jaerc: Like I said, the virix don't strike me as being very privacy-oriented. I'm not sure they would even have private, individual tents (which I suppose is what "father's tent" and "mothers tent" mean). It has gotten me thinking, though: really, the most important distinction between virix isn't gender, it's caste. Suppose there is a workers' tent, a warriors' tent, and a shamans' tent. Maybe the youngest children stay with the workers, because feeding and watching babies is simple labor, and then at a certain age they move to the shamans' tent, and the shamans teach them writing, history, medicine, and also test them for magical ability. Or else female children move to the shaman tent, and male children to the warrior tent. Or else children move to whatever tent their caste will be, and the young workers stay in the workers' tent. Galen: I agree on the polygamy issue. About band/tribe size: yes, the group needs to be relatively large to defend itself, but there is also the consideration of resources. The virix live in a resource-poor environment. They need to stay in small groups because a large group can't gather enough food/water to support itself. I don't mean bands of 5 or 10, but probably something like 15 to 50 related females (daughters, sisters, aunts), plus however many males would correspond, I forget whether we ever decided on a ratio. Plus their children. Anyway, maybe band wasn't the right term: you could replace the words to say every tribe in a clan, or every tribe in the region, or every tribe in the entire virix race if they only live in one specific area. I still like the idea of using an annual congregation as the time when the competitions happen and mates are chosen because it provides for an exchange of fresh blood between the tribes/bands. If they stayed isolated from each other, you would have inbreeding. I also like the fact that it gives the virix a larger society and a greater sense of community. |
| Galen09-22-03, 04:27 AM | Originally posted by Leaves About band/tribe size: yes, the group needs to be relatively large to defend itself, but there is also the consideration of resources. The virix live in a resource-poor environment. They need to stay in small groups because a large group can't gather enough food/water to support itself. I don't mean bands of 5 or 10, but probably something like 15 to 50 related females (daughters, sisters, aunts), plus however many males would correspond, I forget whether we ever decided on a ratio. Plus their children. Anyway, maybe band wasn't the right term: you could replace the words to say every tribe in a clan, or every tribe in the region, or every tribe in the entire virix race if they only live in one specific area. I still like the idea of using an annual congregation as the time when the competitions happen and mates are chosen because it provides for an exchange of fresh blood between the tribes/bands. If they stayed isolated from each other, you would have inbreeding. I also like the fact that it gives the virix a larger society and a greater sense of community. We're not talking about desert that is similar to super arid Dune(Arrakis) here but something like semi arid sahara/middle east type desert where nomad groups sometimes as large as over a thousand can sustain itself. Semi-arid deserts have oasis patches that can nurture them only for a short period of time before the place becomes bare(they replenish slowly). To survive they move alot to acquire water AND SEARCH FOR GRAZING PLACE FOR THEIR ANIMALS. The emphasis is there to suggest what their primary food source is. Since they have herds, 100-400 size nomad tribes are sustainable. They occasionally hunt and trade to obtain other food source but they are primarily herders. To elaborate on my previous post: 1) Tribes occasionally meet and smaller tribes may request some members of the other tribe to join them to replenish their numbers and add gene diversity. 2) Overcrowded tribes remove some of their members to go forth on their own in search other tribes who will accept them or create a new tribe of their own. 3) Annual congregation is of ceremonial purpose to commemorate something(religious or historical). Although they don't congregate to give/take/trade members, they do so during that occasion. |
| Obsidianjaerc09-22-03, 08:27 PM | It has gotten me thinking, though: really, the most important distinction between virix isn't gender, it's caste. Suppose there is a workers' tent, a warriors' tent, and a shamans' tent. Maybe the youngest children stay with the workers, because feeding and watching babies is simple labor, and then at a certain age they move to the shamans' tent, and the shamans teach them writing, history, medicine, and also test them for magical ability. I think that that is a very good idea. We're not talking about desert that is similar to super arid Dune(Arrakis) here but something like semi arid sahara/middle east type desert where nomad groups sometimes as large as over a thousand can sustain itself. Semi-arid deserts have oasis patches that can nurture them only for a short period of time before the place becomes bare(they replenish slowly). To survive they move alot to acquire water AND SEARCH FOR GRAZING PLACE FOR THEIR ANIMALS. The emphasis is there to suggest what their primary food source is. Since they have herds, 100-400 size nomad tribes are sustainable. They occasionally hunt and trade to obtain other food source but they are primarily herders. About the arid ness I belive you are correct. And it just occured to me that wouldn`t it be an extra cruelty if most of the oasis "teleported" moved to a diffrent location after one use. A few ofcourse would stay especially the big ones , its just a thought. The size also seems about right. 1 Probably right. 2 Or to go off to explore or become merchants , etc... 3 That sems correct. However the congregations (meetings) are not necassarily so serious some are just competitive fairs and social meetings at least I thought so. |
| Obsidianjaerc10-02-03, 07:36 PM | SO http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/Jarecbump.TXT |
| Captain Mutilate10-02-03, 09:19 PM | Sorry for not being here for so long... do you guys need me to draw anything? |
| Galen10-02-03, 09:58 PM | Yes! We also need someone to summarize(again) what we've just accomplished so far. |
| Captain Mutilate10-16-03, 09:54 PM | Alrighty then. After the summerizationage, I'll print it out and draw a full color thing.. probably in watercolor. |
| Galen03-02-04, 01:26 AM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Alrighty then. After the summerizationage, I'll print it out and draw a full color thing.. probably in watercolor. We're waiting CM. :P:P:P Actually, I'm just wondering if we're through with this race. If yes it's time to create another one(Yes, I have one playing in my mind). |
| nick01200003-16-04, 03:38 AM | Let's see it then. |
| Galen03-16-04, 04:03 AM | Originally posted by nick012000 Let's see it then. If you're talking to me then: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196608 |
| ttime03-19-04, 11:04 AM | I read the first page, bottom to top, er.. top to bottom. anyway. I think they should pair off for mates, because then, 2/3 male would mean the weaker males are killed, to save recourses, cruel, but smart. That would explain hardship for this culture. Also I think their magic should appear only in the "elder supreme race" the people who rule them. It's like.. each tribe has some magic itemt o allow them into the elder society, like in Cirque du Freak.. or however its spelled, the vampire princes. Anyway.. I g2g to school now ^^. cya... ill be on later. |
| Galen03-21-04, 07:53 PM | Originally posted by ttime I read the first page, bottom to top, er.. top to bottom. anyway. I think they should pair off for mates, because then, 2/3 male would mean the weaker males are killed, to save recourses, cruel, but smart. That would explain hardship for this culture. Also I think their magic should appear only in the "elder supreme race" the people who rule them. It's like.. each tribe has some magic itemt o allow them into the elder society, like in Cirque du Freak.. or however its spelled, the vampire princes. Anyway.. I g2g to school now ^^. cya... ill be on later. Can't believe the virix race still has some life in it. So be it then. :D:D:D There was an agreement to turn them polygamous to ensure that they follow natur'es rule of survival of the fittest. Only the best male can sire and to prove it, they must compete against other males on test of physical and mental tests. The test I assume from others really tax their cpacity but does not causes death and rarely cause serious injury. This ensures the tribe loses none of it's male members. As for magic wielders becoming leaders, I haven't refreshed my memory by reading the old posts but we did agreed on Matriarchal leadership(I think) and most leaders come from the priest/shaman branch. Generally, when leaders are chosen to lead the tribe they choose the one who's best on tackling inter-tribe relationship and management of the tribe's resources. |
| ttime03-23-04, 12:36 PM | uh oh. I leave for a few days.. and it dies. well.. um. if anyone ever comes back here.. pm me please. or. um. I dunno. pm me if we make any new ones, I want to work ont his stuff. I do this all the time, and only learned about this area recently. |
| Galen03-23-04, 07:45 PM | Originally posted by ttime uh oh. I leave for a few days.. and it dies. well.. um. if anyone ever comes back here.. pm me please. or. um. I dunno. pm me if we make any new ones, I want to work ont his stuff. I do this all the time, and only learned about this area recently. Admittedly, most of the old timers(I'm the only one left) that contributed here are gone and newcomers find the content overwhleming so quickly jumping in is very hard for everyone. Add to the fact that it's finals week means most are studying instead of loafing around are draining our numbers here. As for new ones, I plan on making another one soon. How soon? I don't know, it all depends on how far we can go with the swamp dwellers. |
| Obsidianjaerc03-23-04, 11:10 PM | Im still around and it looks like the Virix are pretty much complete. I'll PM Leaves to see about finishing the language soon. Maybe we should write some Virix history? |
| Galen03-23-04, 11:15 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc Im still around and it looks like the Virix are pretty much complete. I'll PM Leaves to see about finishing the language soon. Maybe we should write some Virix history? Good idea. If only we can get someone to do the illustration, D&D stats and Magic card about this race we could finally put a period to this race. Note: I'm not familiar with D&D 3.5 so I can't help there but when it comes to Magic cards, that I can help. P.S. How about joining in on the Swamp Dwellers thread? We could use more heads there. |
| Obsidianjaerc03-23-04, 11:21 PM | I am heading over to the Swamp Dwellers thread as we speak. I'll post some threads on the Races board and art board to get D&D stats and pix and then post links here. |
| Mansh00n03-24-04, 04:34 AM | I could help with the D&D stats. I just have to know if the race has a level adjustment. |
| Brknlf03-24-04, 08:54 AM | Originally posted by Galen Good idea. If only we can get someone to do the illustration, D&D stats and Magic card about this race we could finally put a period to this race. With illustration, TCG card and RPG stats, we could put an end to the creation of this race, but why put this race onto the back burner and file it under done? The point of the project is to create a world, why not use this race as a launching point for actually creating the world. You did mention working out a history for the Virix, but what about giving them a home in the world too. Knowing their geographical location could lead to more interesting creations. Especially when we have a basic Virix card and some D&D stats, then we could make special Virix (legends cards in MtG, levelled Virix in D&D), what kind of interactions do they have with the ecosystem around them. Just working out interesting things for the land could lead to some land cards and such. Just a thought this, but I do cast a vote for actually placing them on the world we're supposed to be creating and using the desert as the starting point (which, oddly enough, the only thing Wiz_O Paradox was looking for to start the project was a starting point). |
| Galen03-25-04, 07:56 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf With illustration, TCG card and RPG stats, we could put an end to the creation of this race, but why put this race onto the back burner and file it under done? The point of the project is to create a world, why not use this race as a launching point for actually creating the world. You did mention working out a history for the Virix, but what about giving them a home in the world too. Knowing their geographical location could lead to more interesting creations. Especially when we have a basic Virix card and some D&D stats, then we could make special Virix (legends cards in MtG, levelled Virix in D&D), what kind of interactions do they have with the ecosystem around them. Just working out interesting things for the land could lead to some land cards and such. Just a thought this, but I do cast a vote for actually placing them on the world we're supposed to be creating and using the desert as the starting point (which, oddly enough, the only thing Wiz_O Paradox was looking for to start the project was a starting point). I would have agreed with you there if only we have a map to place them on. Right now we don't have an actual map of this world to work with. If ever the map is finally created then we could resurrect this race and put their geographical location on the map. It wouldn't be that hard since they live in an arid desert place. The same thing can be said about their history, we can't completely create their interaction with other races and their affect to the planet. |
| Obsidianjaerc03-25-04, 08:13 PM | Forgot the links to the D&D stating threads. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2958558#post2958558post2958558) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2958583#post2958583) I havent started the art threads yet. |
| Brknlf03-26-04, 09:26 AM | Originally posted by Galen I would have agreed with you there if only we have a map to place them on. Right now we don't have an actual map of this world to work with. If ever the map is finally created then we could resurrect this race and put their geographical location on the map. It wouldn't be that hard since they live in an arid desert place. We don't need an actual world map to place them into the world just yet. They would have their own view of the world around them, they would have a name for their desert and the names of interesting locations. What kind of lands are there around the Virix desert? We shouldn't have to make a complete world map to make a map of the world according to the Virix. Look at all the maps made by ancient Greeks and Romans; the scale is completely off with Greece or Rome being much larger than the rest of the world (I'm saying it just needs to be an outline of their desert and it doesn't have to be accurate with the actual world map for this project). What kind of desert do they dwell in, are their subcultures of this race based on where they live. Just as examples, in the east there are rocky badlands, the Yabiss, which has the Rivnox clan of Virix who are more warlike than normal Virix, there is a large rock wall formation, Mezaj al-Anid, that separates the badlands from the open bled, Al-Fadhee, where the majority of Virix live - there is a gap in the wall, Mehdi Pass; the Virix use the pass as the winds atop the Mezaj al-Anid are fierce, sending cutting sand over the wall. I mean, if people keep creating cool stuff like this and then say ‘we have no were to put them’, then we will never have any place to put them. The same thing can be said about their history, we can't completely create their interaction with other races and their affect to the planet. The same can be said about their history. Not all of it has to be filled in but bits and pieces can be added. Maybe there was some strange occurrence in their history (a catastrophe, a migration, a diaspora, a strange visitor); something like this could even inspire other people to offer new races or cultures/civilizations. |
| Obsidianjaerc03-26-04, 04:42 PM | Yes I agree with Brknlf. One nitpick is that so far our progress on the language doesn't suggest Arabic sounding names. The Rivnox clan looks worthy of some discusion and it harkens back to Leaves and my idea of the underground cave that is the one of subjects of the fairs. She suggested that perhaps one clan had been winning the cave several times in a row. Perhaps the Rivnox? As for history I think we should wait a little on that so we dont fill up our plates too much. ;). I am currently working on summerising this thread so we can get d&d stats for them. If you could all kindly noy add anything for a few days I would be greatly obliged. |
| Brknlf03-26-04, 05:59 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc Yes I agree with Brknlf. One nitpick is that so far our progress on the language doesn't suggest Arabic sounding names. The Rivnox clan looks worthy of some discusion and it harkens back to Leaves and my idea of the underground cave that is the one of subjects of the fairs. She suggested that perhaps one clan had been winning the cave several times in a row. Perhaps the Rivnox? Sorry with the arabic sounding names in the example, bad habit from reading too much Dune and my table top campaign being set in Al-Qadim at the moment. It was really just an example to kind of show what we could do with them now that the race has some identity, come cutlural awareness. Making some off-handed geography and discussing what happens can lead to some interesting things (like card development, take my little examples, the winds blowing sand fast enough to cut skin could lead to little direct damage type spells, like an enchantment (Master of the Virix Winds, 1 red mana to deal 1 damage to a creature, only X amount of damage can be delt in one turn) ... the pass could be an inhibator type card (only creatures with power X may attack you if you have the pass land card or something weird)). Again, its only examples of what could be done that could lead to more creative stuff for the project. |
| Galen03-28-04, 08:03 PM | If most of the participants here are interested in creating their culture and history then let's get on with it. I'm simply apprehensive since without geography I doubt we can make a complete catalogue of their past especially the part when they have interaction with other races. Right now I think we can create their ancient past until the part they start spreading out and start having contact with other races. Anyone wants to start the ball rolling? One good place to start is their first oral/written record about their existence. Personally I prefer a part religion, part history on how they came to be. P.S. Should we ask WizO_Shadow to change the title of this thread from [RACE] Lizard men of the desert to [RACE] - Virix? |
| Galen03-29-04, 07:55 PM | Update: The most recent visual representation of the Virix (http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/glenchuy/lst?.dir=/My+Documents/World+Creation+Project&.view=l). You may thank glenchuy for that. He forgot the fins but once he do the female shamans I told him to add the fins on both sexes. |
| glenchuy03-29-04, 08:06 PM | oh crap, i thought the name was "vidrix" sorry bout that. |
| glenchuy03-31-04, 07:55 PM | okay, the pics are done male and female. if there are no more comments about it. i shall ink the drawings so that they can be prepared for coloring. |
| Galen04-04-04, 08:27 PM | Friendly bump and reminder. We got a more detailed sketch now so where's everyone who is interested in creating Virix's history? |
| Brknlf04-05-04, 09:21 AM | Here's some thoughts for everyone to think about regarding history and culture: I think something interesting should be put in from the go, maybe something from their history tying into why they live in the desert. Maybe some strange event happened that displaced them from their original home land, which led them into the desert. Maybe they stayed in the desert because of some strange prophecy or something from earlier history (not saying the prophecy need be real, just coincidental to them remaining in the desert). In the desert they're waiting for maybe a sign to return or a test of some sort; this could lead into explaining their annual festival (non-violent) competitions between the tribes. Another interesting aspect of their culture could be water relations. Just examples of what already exists, Dune has water as a valuable resource (they have water rings as a sort of coinage), there is a North African group of desert nomads that do not allow themselves to camp within 5 miles of any water source (least they become to lazy). Not saying we need to copy these, but water scarcity in the desert would probably lead to some interesting developments for their culture; especially considering that they are large reptilian beings who probably need to shed skin every so often. |
| Brknlf04-05-04, 12:19 PM | Going off some of the religion/mythology and such: The Gathering of the Tribes - Djixnesz Czacua (Jiks-neszh Sha-coo-ah) Past: Many years ago when the Virix we sent forth from Paradise by the Veiled One, they set to wandering the arid lands outside of Paradise. In the 28th year of the Wandering, the elders came across the Cave of Birds. Caves on the outside of a mammoth rock led deep into the stone earth, at the center of the massive earthen formation is a cave with a crack of an opening in the top. It is naturally lit, and has fresh water fed from an underground stream. The Virix elders decided this was to be the center of their new home. Yet immediately, the tribes of the Virix set to arguing over who would have access rights to the water and the cave. (insert how they established female rule and/or how they decide on leaders, do they have a tribal council, and other political types stuff) Present: The Virix gathering is really like a grand bazaar, circus, and the Olympics thrown together in one annual event. Aside from establishing authority over the tribes, each tribe also uses this event for the purposes of mating and establishing authority within their own tribes. Within the Cave of Birds, trading is conducted in earnest; it becomes a colorful affair indeed. With the large amount of birds that naturally flock to the cave, the wares of the traders and the variants of skin colorations of the Virix themselves, the affair is beautiful to behold. Anything obtainable by the Virix, or manufactured, can be found here for the right bargaining price. Likewise, each tribe holds events to establish rights and issues amongst its own members, from tests of strength and endurance to contests of intellect and willpower. The most fabulous of all events is the Virix Dance of Vanity (or some other Virix type word). Males perform dances to gain the attention of the females, many adorning themselves with feathers, trinkets and makeup, heightening the coloration of the skin to make themselves stand out more. The males then gather to dance in various circles around the Cave of Birds and many females show up to watch and choose males to their liking. Through a serious of expressive facial communication a female can let a male know of her interest as a potential mate. Marriage is a unique concept amongst the Virix, females decide the length of contract so to speak and are not obligated to stay with a mate for life. At the Dance of Vanity, when a male receives intent of interest, it is then his obligation to sneak into the camp of the female that showed interest (who is usually of another tribe). Arriving at her tent (or sleeping area), he must woo her again (gain her attention). She can then question his want to be with her and if accepted, he must go into the camp, and take here hand. The males of the female’s camp, if awake, must then try to stop him. This is again a test of the would-be mate, if he makes it out with the female, then he become her mate for at least a year (or longer if she chooses not to leave him at the next gathering). |
| Galen04-05-04, 09:13 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf Here's some thoughts for everyone to think about regarding history and culture: I think something interesting should be put in from the go, maybe something from their history tying into why they live in the desert. Maybe some strange event happened that displaced them from their original home land, which led them into the desert. Maybe they stayed in the desert because of some strange prophecy or something from earlier history (not saying the prophecy need be real, just coincidental to them remaining in the desert). In the desert they're waiting for maybe a sign to return or a test of some sort; this could lead into explaining their annual festival (non-violent) competitions between the tribes. Another interesting aspect of their culture could be water relations. Just examples of what already exists, Dune has water as a valuable resource (they have water rings as a sort of coinage), there is a North African group of desert nomads that do not allow themselves to camp within 5 miles of any water source (least they become to lazy). Not saying we need to copy these, but water scarcity in the desert would probably lead to some interesting developments for their culture; especially considering that they are large reptilian beings who probably need to shed skin every so often. The second paragraph I have no problem incorporating to the race. Water is sacred to them because it is the foundation of their civilization and religion. Religious and festive occasion largely revolve upon the importance of water to their lives and it is the main thing that binds them even if they are group into different tribes. Now the first paragraph on the other hand I got some problem trying to accept. I imagine the race as a desert dweller from the beginning because it would make sense that they are very specialized to live there. If they are immigrants then that would mean a very large migration(Imagine the Jews during the ancient times as they head from Egypt to Palestine) of them to the desert and massive culling due to the harsh hot weather as they cope to survive. The second problem here would be their adaptation. If they came from other less arid place that would mean their initial physical appearances and culture would be different. We would have to create a history pushing back their timeline and creating a pre-desert physical appearance. I suggest something more of an part magical and part natural evolution as to how they came to be. Here's my take: The Virix were initially just ordinary 6 legged lizards that live on the desert a lot more arid than the present. Their evolution to a sentient and civilized race began when a large meteor hit the desert. Due to the very deep sandy composition of the desert, the damage of the impact was isloated and only visible change was the creation of rock outcrop filled with large crack/openings going down(Rock of the Ages, Cave of Birds). Desert wildlife was not affected and the only beings killed are those within a few miles from the impact site. The meteor may have caused very little visible change but geographically and in magical sense, the meteor have done more. The meteor caused the desert bedrock to soak subterrainian water slowly turning certain places in the desert, where sands covering the bedrock are thin, into oasis. The subterrainian part of the outcrop where the impact happened became a large reservior of water and plant life thrive around it. The meteor also has some magical property in it that caused the 6 legged lizards near the impact site to slowly evolve over time. As sentience emerge on them, physical changes also started happening. Their forelegs became hands and they started walking "upright". With improve physical characteristics and intelligence they started creating tools and forming groups to improve their desert survival. Hundreds of thousands of years have passed and they became the Virix of the present. They thrived and their numbers grow so large to a certain point that the rock outcrop (impact site) became too small to sustain them. An agreement was settled and they dispersed into smaller groups in search of places where they can live and thrive. The impact site became a sacred place where under oath, they will converge on that spot every few years to celebrate the importance of the place as the birth place of their civilization. So, what do you think of my version of their origin? |
| Brknlf04-06-04, 09:23 AM | So, what do you think of my version of their origin? I like it a lot, developing the Rock of Ages/Cave of Birds concepts also is great stuff, intersting and unique. Even the Oases that have arisen due in part to the strange qualities of the Rock of Ages (this is the meteor right?). This can even be used to tie in (or start) the water relations/water scarcity issues of living in the desert. The [Virix] Oases and the Cave of Birds would probably all be special/sacred areas for the Virix. As lizard beings who shed skin semi-regularly, water could be important to them. We've already said shedded skin can be and is important in their culture for various reasons. They are nomadic/semi-nomadic, part of their migratory patterns would most likely include a regular visit to the Oases created by the Rock of Ages. When they are away from these home bases (so to speak), they are away from their holy lands, when they return ... maybe they have to cleanse themselves with water taken from the Oases. A ritualistic cleansing to wash off the dust of their travels. Also, the skin taken after the ritualistic cleansing could be used for special purposes of some sort within their society. |
| Galen04-06-04, 08:11 PM | I'm on a long holiday vacation(Holy Week for us Christians) so I'll see you in five days so we can discuss their history and culture. For the rest, share your opinions and views with regards to this race's history. One question before I leave, how are we going to tackle the migration? P.S. Yes. I called the meteor Rock of the Ages for lack of better name. :D:D:D |
| Captain Mutilate04-11-04, 02:19 PM | Originally posted by Galen We're waiting CM. :P:P:P Actually, I'm just wondering if we're through with this race. If yes it's time to create another one(Yes, I have one playing in my mind). I saw a link to this in your sig... It's alive again? Yay! As soon as I get a summerization of the race, etc. I'll get on that color piece. |
| Captain Mutilate04-11-04, 02:27 PM | I like the rock of the ages part... Maybe it punctured the water table and caused a small lake to build up around it, therefore making it a holy place to the Virix - because of magical water (maybe the magic gave it healing properties), and for the holy rock. Maybe it is seen glowing at night, and some of the most respected shamans possess shards of the rock in staves of theirs. Shards/pieces found in the sand by Virix are the equivalent of humans finding diamonds in their backyard. Possibly the shards possess healing properties themselves... And a yearly ritual could occur at the rock to wish all the tribes goodwill and health, as well as choosing mates, etc., etc. There could always be a 'ruling tribe' or 'hermits' or whatever that could be sort of pope-ish to the Virix. This would add precious commodities that people may seek from the Virix - shards (very rare/precious) and water (not as precious, but still precious). This would also give some magical items to the Virix - already powerful staves with shards of the rock in them would become even more powerful, and thus would be weilded by elite shamans (maybe the mere possession of the staves would double/triple their lifespan because of the constant presence of the shards) Just a crapload of random ideas that are gushing out of my keyboard because I learned that the World Creation is back up. |
| Galen04-11-04, 08:58 PM | Psst! CM, look here. (http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/glenchuy/lst?.dir=/My+Documents/World+Creation+Project&.view=l) Anyway, I agree that the meteor punctured the water table causing some places in the desert to have water upwelling and turning them into oasis. The meteor does have some magical properties w/c caused their evolution in the first place and as for adding more magical properties such as healing, that's very interesting. Making the water underneath the Rock of the Ages possess healing properties makes it more sacred and help them improve their survival during their evolution process. I don't think fragmenting the meteor into shards w/c they can collect is such a good idea. I'm thinking the meteor buried itself in one piece deep in the ground that nobody and nothing has seen it. |
| Brknlf04-12-04, 09:11 AM | Originally posted by Galen I don't think fragmenting the meteor into shards w/c they can collect is such a good idea. I'm thinking the meteor buried itself in one piece deep in the ground that nobody and nothing has seen it. The healing ideal is very cool. I do confess liking the idea of their sacred rocks in staves. What if a certain type of rock, rock formation, mineral that is rare in the desert has interacted with the rock. Like the Cave of Birds (sorry using the name as nothing else has been suggested) is a huge rock formation with trace elements of a certain mineral within the rock. Like the Oases that have bled through the desert since the Rock of Ages arrrived, maybe various rocks holding the same trace elements have slowly been infused with some qualities that do give them magical powers. From the Virix perspective however, their magics identify the properties of the rocks/stones they find as being similar to the Rock of Ages and from their viewpoint they do consider it to be parts of the meteor that has been scattered throughout their deserts. |
| Galen04-12-04, 08:05 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf The healing ideal is very cool. I do confess liking the idea of their sacred rocks in staves. What if a certain type of rock, rock formation, mineral that is rare in the desert has interacted with the rock. Like the Cave of Birds (sorry using the name as nothing else has been suggested) is a huge rock formation with trace elements of a certain mineral within the rock. Like the Oases that have bled through the desert since the Rock of Ages arrrived, maybe various rocks holding the same trace elements have slowly been infused with some qualities that do give them magical powers. From the Virix perspective however, their magics identify the properties of the rocks/stones they find as being similar to the Rock of Ages and from their viewpoint they do consider it to be parts of the meteor that has been scattered throughout their deserts. Hmmmmm, let's give the structure some name so we can have some official designation. I support the cave of birds as the name of the caves/rock opening on the rock outcrop. The rock outcrop itself I suggest we call the Rock of the Ages because that outcrop has been there since the beginning of the Virix evolution. I don't think the meteor itself should have a name because nobody and nothing has seen it since it came to that planet. Yes, that could work. I got one minor revision though, I belive we agreed that the impact of the meteor was absorbed by the sands localizing the damage done thus preserving the desert wildlife, especially the Virix descendants from extinction. If rocks containing minute traces of the meteor exist, it should be near or on the Rock of the Ages itself. Certain part of the outcrop could contain trace elements w/c made contact with the meteor before it buried itself. What do you think? |
| Galen04-14-04, 08:04 PM | Virix sketch update. (http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/glenchuy/lst?.dir=/My+Documents/World+Creation+Project&.view=l) Courtesy of glenchuy. He said he'll color them soon. |
| Captain Mutilate04-18-04, 02:13 PM | Oooh... Ah... well, looks like I'm obsolete! Lol, so what do you think of my ideas? |
| Galen04-18-04, 09:32 PM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Oooh... Ah... well, looks like I'm obsolete! Lol, so what do you think of my ideas? Read my reply underneath your previous one. Healing might be added if more people would simply comment on it. The glowing thing might not be added since I doubt the glow of the meteor can be seen due to the deepness of its location. Right now only Brknlf and I have said something about it. |
| nick01200004-19-04, 04:41 AM | I think the healing is a good idea. |
| Galen04-20-04, 08:25 PM | Okay, it seems almost everyone is in general agreement that the water should have healing properties. What do the rest think about Galen suggestion regarding stones with metoerite streaks? He suggested that those rocks contain magical properties and sought after by the Virix shamans. Is everyone in agreement to this, and if yes, how do you plan to define it? |
| Brknlf04-21-04, 09:17 AM | Originally posted by Galen Okay, it seems almost everyone is in general agreement that the water should have healing properties. What do the rest think about Galen suggestion regarding stones with metoerite streaks? He suggested that those rocks contain magical properties and sought after by the Virix shamans. Is everyone in agreement to this, and if yes, how do you plan to define it? Actually the other stones don't have to have meteorite, just that say like rocks with traces of iron in it could gain special properties after being around the stone for hundreds or thousands of years? Iron could be replaced with any other mineral that is found in the rocks about this desert, that's just the first thing that popped in my head. This way, the Rock of Ages is kept wholly intact. |
| Galen04-21-04, 08:20 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf Actually the other stones don't have to have meteorite, just that say like rocks with traces of iron in it could gain special properties after being around the stone for hundreds or thousands of years? Iron could be replaced with any other mineral that is found in the rocks about this desert, that's just the first thing that popped in my head. This way, the Rock of Ages is kept wholly intact. So your suggestion is certain rocks near the impact site obtained magical properties because they have certain metallic/mineral properties and are irradiated by the power of the meteor for hundreds of thousands of years? That could work very well, especially on how certain rocks have different magical capabilities. We could have rocks with different metallic properties obtain different magical capabilities. To make sure rarity and value are maintained when discovering these rocks we should choose minerals that are hard to find in the desert. |
| Captain Mutilate08-02-04, 12:04 PM | I'd prefer the breaking up of the meteor but.... maybe these rocks are only found near oasises because they interacted with the faint magical properties of the water and some tribes of Virix are merely protectors of the 'sacred pools' and searchers for these divine rocks. Maybe the strongest males are sent to guard these oasises... It would make more sense for the rock of ages to be broken up in entry to the atmosphere because it gives solid reasons as to why the debris is considered sacred to the Virix if they KNOW it came from the rock. Otherwise it would just be magical items to be found and used. |
| Galen08-02-04, 08:29 PM | Originally posted by Captain Mutilate I'd prefer the breaking up of the meteor but.... maybe these rocks are only found near oasises because they interacted with the faint magical properties of the water and some tribes of Virix are merely protectors of the 'sacred pools' and searchers for these divine rocks. Maybe the strongest males are sent to guard these oasises... It would make more sense for the rock of ages to be broken up in entry to the atmosphere because it gives solid reasons as to why the debris is considered sacred to the Virix if they KNOW it came from the rock. Otherwise it would just be magical items to be found and used. Compromise time(Actually, about time someone reanimates this thread)! Let's break the meteorite into pieces with shards(pieces that broken off during re-entry and impact) scattered all around the outcrop. The Rock of the Ages is the motherload comprising 90% of the meteorite. This will make the outcrop maintain its sacred status and allow the Virix to acquire meteor rocks(still very hard to find) used for their rituals. They can distinguish a shard from ordinary rocks by bringing them to the impact site. If the piece react to the Rock of the Ages then it is one of the shard that has broken off. This will also make the pilgrimage attain more importance for the race. How's that? As for guards protecting the Rock of the Ages, I don't know. I assume there are several permanent tribes around the place because it's perfect to stay there(food/water is abundant) and only the excess numbers becomes nomadic tribes who makes pilgrimage every few years. |
| Brom08-04-04, 12:22 AM | I agree. I think maybe, unless anyone has any other ideas, that we can move on now.;) |
| Brom08-04-04, 12:32 AM | I agree. I think maybe, unless someone has any other ideas, we should move on now. |
| Brom08-04-04, 05:46 PM | Sorry for double post. It's a typo.:D |
| Galen08-04-04, 11:43 PM | Alright, if anyone has nothing more to add suggest with regards to the religion/culture thing then we best talk about racial/social interaction. We talked about how the Virix are good at making the most of what's available and trade with outsiders for the things they simple couldn't make/live without. What do you think is better: 1) They encounter roaming merchants 2) Set outpost where traders gather to trade with tribes who go there. |
| Brom08-08-04, 08:06 PM | I like number two better. It provides more of a "civilized" image. |
| Galen08-08-04, 08:33 PM | Originally posted by Brom I like number two better. It provides more of a "civilized" image. Funny you should say that. When I thought of number 2 I'm implying they wouldn't allow strangers to roam the desert because they are territorial and, in some way, protecting their culture and holy ground. Tresspassing in the desert would mean death. |
| Brom08-09-04, 04:01 PM | Hmm... Very true. If they set up a nomadic settlement near an oasis that moved every year to search for a new water source, they could have merchants staying there, but if they leave they would be killed. Maybe that would solve the problem. |
| Opie200008-11-04, 04:35 AM | [B]Since they are reptile they are cold blooded(unless most prefer them warm blooded). Because they are on a desert region they don't need to bask to acquire sufficient body heat to move normally for the daily routine. <So personal experience in Kuwait tells me they would still do some early morning heating up. Nothing in the miday unless it was in thier underground tunnels. At they would be looking for any source of heat they could aboveground and bellow in thier tunnels likely still be active.> At night the Shamans do their work in creating fire and/or making the sands sufficiently warm to help prevent them from freezing up and getting sluggish(w/c explains why shamans are revered by this race). <Bellowground its not likely to be a big issue. At a certain depth the temp stays fairly constant unless there are other influences. But the Shaman would still be busy with lights that dont chew up air, and building new complexes with thier "Shape sand spell" or casting from thier new Devine list "SAND"> As for religion, not yet we don't have any specifics on that but we'll soon tackle that after more important issues are dealt with. <I imagine a people torn with the bueaty of thier desert and awed by the savegry of its environment. I see a race that speaks to me of the Freeman fron the Dune saga...> |
| Opie200008-11-04, 04:42 AM | Nomadic is good but it stands a chance of bringing this race into constant conflict with other races especially if they are traveling between oasis. Water is more precious than gold in a true desert try and hold a source of water and all your asking for is war. Has anyone ever seen a "Sand strider" Fast little lizard stands tall on its feet and boogies across the sand fast enough to outrun a "Roadrunner" that may be one ability you might add that shouldn't add to much to thier CR. |
| Cthulhu Cultist08-11-04, 08:11 PM | Originally posted by Brknlf I like the idea about heating up sand to some extent, maybe a certain variety of these creatures can (or their mages can at least). While glass houses in the desert seem more like death saunas, the idea of sand dwelling below the surface is interesting. The glass walls allow them to naturally view the wonderful sand/soil outside thier homes, makes for a unique yet alien feeling to their lands? You know,Actually the sand bellow the surface is somewhat cool.Some animals in the deserts bury themselves to escape from heat |
| Galen08-11-04, 08:39 PM | Welcome Opie2000! If you actually manage to read through from the beginning then I commend your endurance(I've heard members give up after page 3). :D:D:D Yes I see them basking during the early morning rays to get their body temperature up. Even I don't assume the shaman can maintain fire all night but the Shaman does keep the virix from getting too cold and sluggish throughout the night. On the other hand I don't see the shaman doing more than that. Magic is a powerful tool and users shouldn't be able to harness them so easily. Keeping a fire or constantly heated sand should be something of a drain and the fact that they conserve energy/resources I don't think the shaman would use more magic to make things more comfortable(creating sand barriers/tents). I do assume they dig something similar to large fox holes and put tents over them to protect them throughout the night. I think I'll talk to glenchuy about this, he's good at illustration(see his sketch of the race). Now going to religion, our discussion resulted in the creation of the Rock of the Ages. See latter half of page 5 up to the end of page 6 to understand what was discussed. Yes they respect and fear the desert but their religion centers on the Rock of the Ages. Just like you said the Virix don't stay on one oasis because conflict might arise if one tried to create permanent residence on one of the few existing ones. The only probable exception would be on the Rock of the Ages site(their most holy ground) where core Virix tribe/s live and protect the place. Their interaction with other race is the current discussion. We can either make them more sociable by letting caravans of other races to pass through the desert or we can make them territorial by only allowing a trading post on the outskirt of the desert where they can interact with other races. Yes I know about that lizard but we already discussed that they are centaur like creatures whose feet are adapted to walk/run fast on the desert(like galloping horses). If you read our discussion on religion you'll notice that they first existed similar to sand striders. Finally, their main special ability is stealth. Even if they look like that they can hide their presence completly(burrowing). I do think that maybe we should add an ability that would allow them to detect moisture(ground and air). This ability would be useful because it can help them find water under the sand in case they can't reach known oasis in time and they can also use this ability to detect living things(other races/creatures) due to moisture emitted. |
| Galen08-11-04, 08:43 PM | Originally posted by Cthulhu Cultist You know,Actually the sand bellow the surface is somewhat cool.Some animals in the deserts bury themselves to escape from heat Well in some way you are correct. During the day sand underneath tend to be cooler then the exposed one w/c is why some creatures in the desert bury themselves to prevent from overheating/dehydrating. |
| Opie200008-12-04, 03:25 AM | Yes I read the sections on the rock of ages. The GREAT gift of the skygods is what a was thinking as I read it... LOL "Bow to the great sun, heathen for all things terriable and holy come from the god". I liked the concept of the centaur but the only thing I though as I read those discusions was it was going to make the Vrix rather large. Not the best thing for a desert dweller unless its centaur "Camel" LOL I see it now a humpy lizard... Eww that didnt sound right.... LOL:eek: As I read some of the description I almost pictured something closer to the Behir as in S4 I think. Kinda a six leg Iguana with modified forelegs and a really more bullet head like the iguana or hella... Sinuios, lithe, almost threatning... But again I come late to the show. |
| turalisj08-12-04, 07:46 PM | i was reading around and saw the topic on the heat at night issue. my idea is that they could have tons of pyromancers to keep them warm and have outcasts be cryomancers (cold=cryo) the pyromancers would keep them warm at night. and when there is an extremly cold night they could blame the cryo's. thats just my bit, hope im not too late :embarrass |
| Galen08-12-04, 08:38 PM | Originally posted by turalisj i was reading around and saw the topic on the heat at night issue. my idea is that they could have tons of pyromancers to keep them warm and have outcasts be cryomancers (cold=cryo) the pyromancers would keep them warm at night. and when there is an extremly cold night they could blame the cryo's. thats just my bit, hope im not too late :embarrass Unfortunately it's too late to discuss about magic invokers. We've already formalize the shaman's powers and use of magic. Feel free to browse the previous pages to see the role of Shamans. Opie2000 - Just to do a quick summary of their physical appearance: they have a head similar to iguanas, they stand like centaurs but they aren't as big as them, they have fins on their back to help them cool their body in case things gets too hot, their feet are adapted perfectly to traveling on sands(just like camels) and finally, they can flatten themselves to help them hide in the sand(think 6 legged lizards). |
| Brom08-15-04, 11:37 AM | Welcome newcomers! Anyways, what's next? Where they get thier food supply, foreign (did I spell that right?) policy, any events of historical significance, what?:confused: |
| Galen08-15-04, 08:35 PM | ??? I seem to recall that it was discussed tribes have herds of desert animals w/c are meant for food. Since the desert is an arid place domesticated cattles are a must for survival. What kind of animals they would have should be discussed on a different thread(who would like to create the terrain for desert?). Another possible source for food(supplement at the very least) would be the merchants. They can trade some desert stuff for food. As for foreign policy and historical events, anybody got a suggestion? |
| Opie200008-16-04, 12:02 AM | Just read some of my spelling, Like that is an issue... LOL So as for history considering how critical an isse the Rock is that should mark a change in ages. Like Ano Domini and B.C. and other such indicators. Starting from a pivotal change I find works best in my campaign fleshing. You might even consider the idea that it spawned some pivotal change in the Vrix other than just the thusfar religious changes. I think rather than looking at the magicly inclined as Pyomancers you should really consider the other things they might accomplish as more valuable to a wandering tribal race of the dessert. 1. Water provisions - Create water - in the desert would be a source of awsome power. 2. The ability to take on the shape of other desert creatures would give them huge advantages in survival. "What chief wouldn't benifit from the intel a truely intelligent eagle, scorpion, or other un-noticed desert dweller might provide"? 3. The ability to shape thier environment would provide semi-permenent residence and offer a lot of tests of ability for thier warriors as they must clear thier residences each time they pass through thier dessert routes. 4. Healing benifits alone have always made shamans a greatly respected and reveared member of primitive races. 5. The keepers of great secrets. Think of a ll the adventure hooks from that concept alone. 6. Create food in leaner times would certainly indebt the tribe to the gods, not to mention the power such a person would wield in a tribal situation. |
| Opie200008-16-04, 05:11 AM | Historical events hmm.... Most of the dates of great interest would likely be on a generational cycle unless they are really significant. But in timekeeping a racial calander are ther other tribes of Vrix then you have to consider that level of rescource compition and how the others fit into the calander. There is the "Rock" you could call that year "1 AF" - (After Fall). Perhaps ths could be the first time Vrix had magic or Psionics... Call 20 maybe the first time the tribe was lead by a chief with a shaman at his side. Perhaps after this there is the discovery of thier trade allies. If this is important to the cultural development it might be a part of the calander of years. Perhaps a generations war might help to flesh out a little of the Vrix background give you a startpoint of some of thier compition in the world. It is after all provable by most anthopological studies any culture without conflict will eventually stagnate, "No conflict no reason to develop". From some of what I have read recently it seems like the Vrix will have a more Bedowin texture rather than a hunting gather kind of culture. I am confused a little about the Rock, if it is now such a central element to the Vrix why would they actually continue to wander? |
| Captain Mutilate09-03-04, 06:43 PM | Compromise time(Actually, about time someone reanimates this thread)! Let's break the meteorite into pieces with shards(pieces that broken off during re-entry and impact) scattered all around the outcrop. The Rock of the Ages is the motherload comprising 90% of the meteorite. This will make the outcrop maintain its sacred status and allow the Virix to acquire meteor rocks(still very hard to find) used for their rituals. They can distinguish a shard from ordinary rocks by bringing them to the impact site. If the piece react to the Rock of the Ages then it is one of the shard that has broken off. This will also make the pilgrimage attain more importance for the race. How's that? As for guards protecting the Rock of the Ages, I don't know. I assume there are several permanent tribes around the place because it's perfect to stay there(food/water is abundant) and only the excess numbers becomes nomadic tribes who makes pilgrimage every few years. Howabout the Rock is like a temple that is guarded by special people. Like elite shamans and stuff. |
| the_one_true_shea03-26-05, 04:31 AM | Im gonna post a real comment on here eventually, but I just wanted to bump this thread before I crash ( tired :twitch: ). This is a perfect example of how well this communal process can produce amazing results. These guys are so "in" as far as I am concerned. |