Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Galen 03-07-04, 08:38 PM	I'm hoping the old gang is still alive so we can make this work. More or less we're through with the Lizard Men thread and I think it's time we create another race for the world creation project. I'm thinking this time we create something that inhabits dark and murky swamps. Let's start the ball rolling: I'm thinking of something that's a cross between a humanoid and amphibian. Amphibian because it's a swamp so being semi aquatic makes sense and looks exotic and terrestrial so they can interact with other race and has a benefit of greater intellect. Share your views and add more info to this new race.
werefrog 03-09-04, 12:20 AM	Could the skin colour be green and have gills as well as lungs? The Werefrog am thinking along the lines of The Creature from the Black Lagoon. He seems to be what The Werefrog would like from a swamp-being. He need not be humanoid, though. Come to think of it, could it be something that works just as well as a quadraped as a biped. The front legs/arms will work as well as both. Also, the fingers/toes should be webbed.
Galen 03-09-04, 12:52 AM	Green skin tone is great but it needs to be darker and somewhat spotty to blend with the sorrounding. I agree that gills and lungs will make the creature more adaptable to swampy areas but he needs to be part humanoid. They must pass as something resembling human because it will help shape their cultural background. The hands and legs will definitely be webbed so it can swim with grace and walk with ease on slimy, muddy ground. Swimming will require all limbs for speed and maneuverability but on land they need the hands so they have to walk upright. I'm thinking that the creature should have claws(possibly retractable) that ooze with poison. It can use the claws to kill its enemy and/or prey and claws do help grasp slippery things.
werefrog 03-09-04, 02:05 PM	Not retractible claws, mayhaps a poisonous spit to which they are immune. That would work well.
Dead_Body 03-09-04, 09:54 PM	While the physical features come along, what about the mental? Are they sentient or mindless? Smart or dumb? Do they work together or alone? Do they understand/use magic? Do they, or even can they, communicate with themselves or even other species? So many questions, so little time... What about the terrian they inhabit? It would seem to be rather murky and have lots of dirty water, in order for at least this race to flourish. As such, trees would have a hard time living in such a place. And without trees, vegitation would have a hard time growing, meaning a hard time for herbavoirs, meaning a hard time for carnivoirs... I feel like I just squashed everything :(. Sorry, I'll try not to do it again. As for the easier physical features, all sounds good to me, but how about overall speed? They seem to be quite fast in water from what I've read, but if they are humanoid, they might be slower on solid ground. The poison seems great for such creatures, since they seem rather stealthy and quick. They should have opposable thumbs if we want them to be able to use tools/weapons. Just my $0.02. By the way, this is my 1st time in the World Creation Project Forum! Yay!
Galen 03-09-04, 10:00 PM	Originally posted by Dead_Body While the physical features come along, what about the mental? Are they sentient or mindless? Smart or dumb? Do they work together or alone? Do they understand/use magic? Do they, or even can they, communicate with themselves or even other species? So many questions, so little time... What about the terrian they inhabit? It would seem to be rather murky and have lots of dirty water, in order for at least this race to flourish. As such, trees would have a hard time living in such a place. And without trees, vegitation would have a hard time growing, meaning a hard time for herbavoirs, meaning a hard time for carnivoirs... I feel like I just squashed everything :(. Sorry, I'll try not to do it again. As for the easier physical features, all sounds good to me, but how about overall speed? They seem to be quite fast in water from what I've read, but if they are humanoid, they might be slower on solid ground. The poison seems great for such creatures, since they seem rather stealthy and quick. They should have opposable thumbs if we want them to be able to use tools/weapons. Just my $0.02. By the way, this is my 1st time in the World Creation Project Forum! Yay! We'll tackle them one at a time as we create this race. One thing for sure is that the creature is intelligent. We are creating a race here so mental and social institution will be tackled. For a very short recap we're creating a race that inhabits the swamp. We've already agreed on the skin color, certain specifics of the limbs and amphibious nature. There's still a lot to talk about so there's no lack of information you can suggest. Right now we're tackling the claws and poison. It is easier to have them out than turning them retractable. My only question is, how do they keep it sharp and dangerous all the time. Being out means they are wearing out as they scrape rocks and wood.
werefrog 03-10-04, 12:20 PM	The claws constantly grow. They are like finger nails from humans. Thus, they will never wear down. Of course, keeping them sharp is a problem.
Mansh00n 03-10-04, 02:42 PM	Okay nice ideas so far. But why claws do they need to defend themselves or is it for gathering food? Then the question comes up: What do they eat? I don't know about what kind of swamp we're talking but fish would seem a good food source to me. They might even have developed basins in which they breed them. If they do eat fish though they should have some physical features that indicate that. In other words how did they catch fish before they developed the intelligence to catch them? These could indeed be claws and constant regrowth seems a good idea. The claws could also deliver poison. It would then only take a short hit to poison the fish and the creature only has to wait for the poison to take effect. I think an intelligent life form is almost always an omnivore. In which case they could also grow plants. Rice for example grows in shallow waters. We could also have the larvae live purely underwater (just like with all amphibians in this world) and have them eat plants, something like algae or other weeds. At a certain age the larvae would transform into adult creatures. Now this question comes up: What is the parent-child relationship. Do the parents gather food for their offspring or do the offspring help in gathering food? For example the offspring might not have legs and arms yet but might be able to swim superbly fast. In that case the offspring could catch fish and the adults could grow weeds on the surface as well as under water. Another idea: How about tails?? Just some ideas I had, feel free to criticize :P
Dead_Body 03-10-04, 03:39 PM	Bah, we don't criticize here. Just insult. Anyways, tails would allow them for speedy movement underwater, and balance on ground. If they do live off of fish, then they will inhabit a very watery swamp. The fish will be having a hard time living in such a place, most likely. But lets move on... On the subject of claws & poison, has nayone here ever played StarCraft?If so, have you seen the Hydralisks? They shoot spikes out of their shoulders somehow. N ow, what if this creature could do so for poison? The claws could be used for melee or as simple back-up. As for keeping them sharp, that wouldn't be very hard. They are smart, they wioll know that rocks and/or bones will contribute to the sharpness of their claws. Since they constantly grow, they will constantly break off, too, which means the creatures will be able to live with claws that start to grow dull. Other ideas?
Galen 03-10-04, 07:32 PM	Social and cultural status will be discussed when we're through with physical characteristics and traits. Yes, letting them sharpen their continuously growing claws is a great solution. Is it plausible to make the poison inject through the claws? Nothing is wasted and the poison quickly affects the victim/prey. Imagine cobra's fangs to get what I mean. Backing to Mansh00n inquiry, the swamp terrain we're targetting is similar to the kind you see on Magic cards: dark, watery, slimy and grim. In that kind of environment anything edible is food so our race is omnivores. I don't think planting is plausible in that kind of place so they should be gatherers/hunters instead of farmers. Having a tail looks reasonable, especially when swimming and fighting. What does everyone think?
Dead_Body 03-10-04, 07:38 PM	Sounds good so far. Hmmm...should we move on about his physical description? I was, in particular, wondering about the eyes. Are they large and round, or small and thin? Are they compound, like an insect? Can he move them independantly? Or do they even have more then 2? Or just one? I think two large compound eyes would allow it to see the most of its surroundings. What do you think?
DavisPS 03-10-04, 09:45 PM	I wouldn't imagine a swamp predator using poisen. I would think of more of a thing that pops up and pulls you down/claws you to death. They don't sound like you've described them as small creatures, and small creatures are generally the ones that use poisen to take down creatures larger than themselves. ~Dave
Galen 03-11-04, 03:59 AM	Originally posted by DavisPS I wouldn't imagine a swamp predator using poisen. I would think of more of a thing that pops up and pulls you down/claws you to death. They don't sound like you've described them as small creatures, and small creatures are generally the ones that use poison to take down creatures larger than themselves. ~Dave Using poison means they only have to strike once and wait for their prey to die of poison. Less effort used that way and great in conserving strength. On a place where edible things aren't easy to find, reserving your strength is a must otherwise you'll weaken yourself to the point of attracting other predators. Having poison is also a great advantage when fighting enemies. All injury will be fatal and quicken the battle in favor of them. The size I'm thinking about is an average human height with a deceiving frail structure look. What does everyone think?
Mansh00n 03-11-04, 04:59 AM	Originally posted by Galen Using poison means they only have to strike once and wait for their prey to die of poison. Less effort used that way and great in conserving strength. On a place where edible things aren't easy to find, reserving your strength is a must otherwise you'll weaken yourself to the point of attracting other predators. Having poison is also a great advantage when fighting enemies. All injury will be fatal and quicken the battle in favor of them. Yes and it won't get you injured when attacking something. Hit and run tactics seems like a good idea. Since they are amphibian they will probably be slimy and maybe we could use that as contact poison, this would also discourage predators. Originally posted by Galen The size I'm thinking about is an average human height with a deceiving frail structure look. What does everyone think? Yes that would seem logical to me too. About the head I was thinking someting like that of an Atog. http://mi.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/auratog.jpg
DavisPS 03-11-04, 07:31 AM	Originally posted by Galen Using poison means they only have to strike once and wait for their prey to die of poison. Less effort used that way and great in conserving strength. On a place where edible things aren't easy to find, reserving your strength is a must otherwise you'll weaken yourself to the point of attracting other predators. Having poison is also a great advantage when fighting enemies. All injury will be fatal and quicken the battle in favor of them. If there are other predators present, then poisen is an opportunity for another to steal the prey. Nothing attracts predators like dying prey. Also, jumping up from behind and giving a slash in the right place is usully a fatal injury, and if not, weakens the prey to the point where fighting back is difficult. The conserving strength thing you mentioned is simply not significant. Anyway, it would take more energy to develop and regenerate the poisen then would be saved. If the creature was less than human size, it would be more logical, as a creature with poisen is simply wasting most of that size. ~Dave
Mansh00n 03-11-04, 07:56 AM	Originally posted by DavisPS If there are other predators present, then poisen is an opportunity for another to steal the prey. And get poisoned. Right? Besides the poison will work quickly and kill the prey before any other hunters get near. Even so in real nature not all attempts at hunting are always successful.
DavisPS 03-11-04, 02:54 PM	How about this: -Has poisen -Smaller than a human Also, does it swim or mostly stay near the more solid areas? ~Dave
Dead_Body 03-11-04, 05:47 PM	Originally posted by DavisPS How about this: -Has poisen -Smaller than a human Also, does it swim or mostly stay near the more solid areas? ~Dave Poison would be very helpful in such a enviorment, but since it is already a disease-ridden enviornment, wouldn't most creatures have immunities to such things? As for size, how small are you talking? About 5 feet? 4 feet? I think anything like that wuld eb fine, but anything less wouldn't be big enough. As for the overall shape, small and wiry is the only way to go for energy-conservative life forms.
DavisPS 03-11-04, 06:10 PM	I've disagreed with the use of poisen from the start, but the others seem insistant on it. However, immunity to disease and immunity to poisen are very separate. A strong immune system is no help against most poisen. I don't know about exact size, but around four feet or below is best for a poisen-using creature in an enviroment where larger creatures are dominant (if smaller creatures are dominant, all the poisen-using creatures would be very small indeed). Also, I'm thinking if it's going to be in the water most of the time, it should have a tail? However, I'm in full support of a more humanoid creature that attacks from underwater, as long as it doesn't use poisen. This is the impression I got from the first post. Remember, this is supposed to be an intellegent, humanoidoid (new word :D) creature. ~Dave
Galen 03-11-04, 07:35 PM	Poison effects vary but some animals do develop resistance to poison. Although the effect doesn't kills them, their body do get sluggish and weaken as the immune system fights off the poison. Basically those animals survive provided they get the chance to fight to poison off. There is no such thing as absolute natural immunity among advance animal lifeforms(meaning poison is like water in their system, completely harmless). I suggest that the creature range from 4 feet to 5 feet in height. From a distance they could pass as human/elf/you get the point. Being part amphibian they need to keep their skin moist/wet so they definitely need to go to the water but they stay on land most of the time. Now as for their hunting technique, I suggest they adapt depending on the circumstances, but the most important thing is they are ambush predator. They hide and when witihn range, they strike(either from under the water or from behind/top of trees). The Auratog's head looks nice for a suggested feature but let's see if others have a better one(if not then Auratog head it is). Anybody has other suggestion?
DavisPS 03-11-04, 11:11 PM	Yes, that's great! Imagine this: Rannul wallowed through the wet mud of the swamp, thinking about how much time he had wasted. Believing the stories of those who had entered and never returned, he had begun to take the long way around. But even after days of watching, he had never seen any life besides the occasional silver fish. He had things to do, and the only danger so far seemed to be getting mud in his boots. The water was deepening. He tried to stay near the land, but it was slippery. Though he hated having to continually balance himself, he figured it wouldn't be long until he was out the other side. There was a faint sound of fish swimming as he trudged through the mud. Suddenly, there was a splash behind him. He spun around, or tried to, but slimy arms were already around his neck, pulling him down, into a dark void... That's what I imagine when I think swamp creature.
Galen 03-12-04, 04:25 AM	I forgot to mention to newcomers that I don't post every weekends so feel free to discuss about the race and I'll catch up when I return.
Mansh00n 03-12-04, 11:52 AM	Originally posted by DavisPS Yes, that's great! Imagine this: Rannul wallowed through the wet mud of the swamp, thinking about how much time he had wasted. Believing the stories of those who had entered and never returned, he had begun to take the long way around. But even after days of watching, he had never seen any life besides the occasional silver fish. He had things to do, and the only danger so far seemed to be getting mud in his boots. The water was deepening. He tried to stay near the land, but it was slippery. Though he hated having to continually balance himself, he figured it wouldn't be long until he was out the other side. There was a faint sound of fish swimming as he trudged through the mud. Suddenly, there was a splash behind him. He spun around, or tried to, but slimy arms were already around his neck, pulling him down, into a dark void... That's what I imagine when I think swamp creature. Nice idea How about both? If he pulls down the victim and uses poison. The poison weakens the victim, making him less able to resist and easier to throttle/drown.
DavisPS 03-12-04, 12:46 PM	Wait... this is a somewhat intellegent, humanoid creature, right? It would be illogical for them to have natural poisen, but people who lived in jungles have been able to make poisen, why couldn't the swamp creature? But exactly how intellegent/civilized are they? I think we have to establish that before we go any furthur.
werefrog 03-12-04, 02:22 PM	How about they lack scientific knowledge on their own, but they have the capacity to understand it if they go to the human settlements. They live mostly in hollowed out trees in the swamps. They don't have very intricate archetecture. It's very functional.
DavisPS 03-12-04, 02:31 PM	Perfect, except for one thing. These are, or should be, creatures that have no qualms about eating sentient creatures such as humans. Also, they need to keep moist, as amphibians. What would they be doing in human settlements? I'm thinking with some primitive technology, such as extraction of poisen from the local wildlife. Also, how do they feed? I'm thinking that they start hiding underwater when they hear something comng close, as it would be unrealistic for a suffiently intellegent creature to sit underwater all day.
nick012000 03-12-04, 08:31 PM	For some reason, I can't help but think of Gollum.
DavisPS 03-12-04, 10:28 PM	Originally posted by nick012000 For some reason, I can't help but think of Gollum. I was thinking about Gollum the whole time. Not that my idea of the swamp creature is anything like Gollum, but Gollum has been on my mind.
Aluroon 03-12-04, 10:47 PM	Well i would like to clear up a few things. First rice is incredubly (spelling?) difficuet to grow and i dont think that the simi intelegent creature were talking about here is really able to manage something like rice crops. were talking about what 6-7 int on the DnD scale? I would also like to say to Dead_Body that the hydras in Starcraft dont shoot spines from there sholders but from there mouths. Now on to ideas form my worped mind. How is there social stucture organized? Do they congigate in tribes or do they live in small family groups, or solitary. Would they develope weapons? Lets remember the only real reason humans developed weapons was to survive because they had no nateral weapons other then there minds. This creature has nateral weapons so would it find a need to develope other weapons. It is extreamly well adapted to its envirement. As for hight can we call it 4 feet? I dont think that it sould be 5 feet because it seams that every race is five feet or six feet tall. The poisen. How about it be fast acting, almost to the point of instantanious. If the poisen takes to long to take effect then there is a good chance that the creature will lose its meal to another predider. Are these creatures the top dog in there envirement or are they lower on the food chain? This helps determain quite a bit about the creature. Hope this helps i will try to post agin
DavisPS 03-12-04, 11:04 PM	The poisen can be as fast acting as you want, but I don't want it to be natural poisen, but rather a product of their somewhat primitive intellegence. Though it's not needed for the prey they are used to, it could have been developed to tackle creatures closer to the center of the swamp, larger predators that would normally be a danger. That brings up how the swamp is laid out. I'm thinking that the outer areas are like a normal swamp, but as you go furthur in, you end up with a more jungle-like enviroment, with highly adapted and highly dangerous species. You can't create a creature without creating it's enviroment first. As for them being top dog in their enviroment, yes, they are. They wouldn't be, if they just had their own natural selves, but if you add poisen they've made from the surrounding fauna, then they are very competetive indeed. Social life: No villages. A village of man-eating swamp creatures? No. Solitary. A solitary intellegent creature would be something difrerent, and therefore, fun, thing to work with, as you really don't see that too much. About height: No opinion. None. Zip. Void. Somone else do it.
Mansh00n 03-13-04, 10:06 AM	Originally posted by DavisPS That brings up how the swamp is laid out. I'm thinking that the outer areas are like a normal swamp, but as you go furthur in, you end up with a more jungle-like enviroment, with highly adapted and highly dangerous species. You can't create a creature without creating it's enviroment first. Already sorted out: Originally posted by Galen ..., the swamp terrain we're targetting is similar to the kind you see on Magic cards: dark, watery, slimy and grim. In that kind of environment anything edible is food so our race is omnivores. I don't think planting is plausible in that kind of place so they should be gatherers/hunters instead of farmers. As to the point of the poison :D : The extraction of poison from the environment is a good idea. It certainly indicates intelligence. But doesn't it wash off if they go under water?
DavisPS 03-13-04, 12:37 PM	Yes, I missed that. So, these creatures may have evolved eating fish but used their intellegence to go for bigger prey. Yes, you're right, it would wash off... they aren't feline, no retractable claws... it could be stored in containers until use, the details of which could be sorted out. Any other ideas? Because I am very, very opposed to them using natural poisen. Or... for larger predators, they use simple weapons, such as poisened spears?
Galen 03-14-04, 08:13 PM	I'm back! Wow! We've surpassed WizO_Shadow's(nyah-nyah!) most popular thread! :D:D:D Anyway back to the topic: For the poison creation issue I'm thinking of semi-natural like that of the Komodo Dragon. They don't create it per se but they've evolved a pouch/gland thing where they store mucus secretion of their(saliva, urine, sweat, whatever) that's the natural part. To make the secretion poisonous, they allow microbes and bacteria to breed there creating toxins that are extremely poisonous to almost everything alive. Their intellect is similar to the Neanderthals, crude and barely civilized. We're trying to create a new race here so there are times we can be a little bit more imaginative and less logical. As for the village issue. I'm thinking of something similar to a lion's pride. 1 alpha male and lots of female. The male attracts and keeps female through physical superiority. Interaction between pride is refrained upon except during extreme circumstances(famine where they need to gang up and take on bigger and more numerous preys). Living in the hollow of trees is a reasonable idea and I'm suggesting we also include caves and hollow earth mounds. P.S. Funny thing, when I created this thread for a new race I was thinking of something between Gollum and Frozen Shade. Great minds think alike I always say. :D:D:D
DavisPS 03-14-04, 09:09 PM	The Komodo dragon thing... that's natural poisen. That is very much natural poisen. I still don't like the idea of a humanoid Gollumish reature with natural poisen. The lion's pride thing might not work if they hunt by waiting for prey to come near, and I don't like it much anyway... but my opinions aren't too strong on that. Also, we (or I) want them to develop a language, and they need to come into contact with each other for a language.
Galen 03-15-04, 12:04 AM	Originally posted by DavisPS The Komodo dragon thing... that's natural poisen. That is very much natural poisen. I still don't like the idea of a humanoid Gollumish reature with natural poisen. The lion's pride thing might not work if they hunt by waiting for prey to come near, and I don't like it much anyway... but my opinions aren't too strong on that. Also, we (or I) want them to develop a language, and they need to come into contact with each other for a language. Komodo dragon's poison is natural as in it's made by natural process but not natural as in it is inbred in them. Here's my proof: The Komodo dragon is thought by many people to be a poisonous reptile. Some even think it is venomous. Neither is correct. The Komodo dragon does not produce any poisonous or venomous substance. The dragon has a large population of deadly bacteria living in his mouth. He will bite a potential prey victim, causing bacterial contamination of the bite wound. The animal’s immune system is unable to fight off the bacteria and, over the course of a few days, the animal slowly succumbs as the infection spreads through the body. During this time, the Komodo dragon will follow and stalk his prey until the animal collapses and is near death from sepsis. At this point, the Komodo dragon begins his dinner. The bacteria in the mouth of the Komodo dragon is so deadly that there are no antibiotics currently available to treat an established infection. Bites from the Komodo dragon usually result in death, despite aggressive medical care. I'm suggesting the same thing on this race except the poison is much deadlier and faster acting. They don't hunt by waiting for prey to come nearby. They look for prey and forage for available food. I'm just suggesting when I said like a lion's pride is for the group structure not the feeding structure. As for meeting other tribes, they do that occasionally but long term contact is a very rare occurence. If my suggestion of them with an intellect of a Neanderthal is passed then I could further elaborate what I mean. They do have language and technology but I'm suggesting a crude one and some of their items are stolen/looted from their victims.
Mansh00n 03-15-04, 09:06 AM	We have to make a decision about the poison. I don't mind what it's going to be but we have to move on, if we start discussing every point like this it'll take years to finish. No offence, all ideas seem nice to me, but we can't keep talking about it.
DavisPS 03-15-04, 02:59 PM	Originally posted by Galen They don't hunt by waiting for prey to come nearby. They look for prey and forage for available food. I'm just suggesting when I said like a lion's pride is for the group structure not the feeding structure. As for meeting other tribes, they do that occasionally but long term contact is a very rare occurence. If my suggestion of them with an intellect of a Neanderthal is passed then I could further elaborate what I mean.[/B] Passed. No natural poisen. I veto it.
Tyros Elessar 03-15-04, 03:55 PM	I think natural poison is a good characteristic for the creatures to have. It's a good mix to have around. I don't think that they should just limit themselves to biting or clawing at their prey to capture them. Maybe they could have some claw-like structure made entirely from cartilage that would be able to contain poison. They shouldn't be large, I'm thinking quite small, like a plastic straw, and they could be removed without any kind of pain, and would be able to regrow in about a week or two. They would take these kind of little spikes and throw it so that they hit their prey or maybe use the intelect they have to use hallow tree branches to project them off. That would be nice and would let them have a small defense against the vast and superior technology of men. Also, how would female and male differ from one another? Would male's be tougher and larger than female or otherwise? Would male have any different physical attributes? And how do they reproduce? By eggs? Many eggs at a time or only a few?
DavisPS 03-15-04, 05:16 PM	wait... shoot the claws? Firstly, they'll be down a claw for a week. They'd run out. Second... no. Just no. Natural poisen maybe I can deal with, but if they're gonna use projectiles, it's gonna be projectiles they make. As for the superior technologyof men, men can't kill what they can't see, and that's how the sneak-attack hunting methods work.
Tyros Elessar 03-15-04, 05:59 PM	did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say "just shoot claws". I said that they could have some kind of cartilagean frmation on their back or so that could be removed to be used as projectile. That way they could hunt by sneak attacking and by range. I figured that since this a worl being created, we could have a little more room for creativity and maybe some a little bit less logic. I think they would look cool with these specific features, that's all.
Galen 03-15-04, 07:54 PM	Okay people, let's simmer down a bit. No need to get hostile. As for the poison, it seems we're too split to get a final verdict through discussion. How about we make a vote for it so we can move on? Just say if you agree with the poison thing or not(no explanation needed). As for the cartilage projectile thing, it's an interesting feature and could be incorporated but we definitely need to find means how this race could regrow them easily. The terrain isn't exactly the place where they can find food easily so conservation is a key issue. For the male and female features, how about we go with the auratog feature suggested earlier for male and brine hag for the female feature. Once we finish the physical features we're going for the intelligence and traits. P.S. BTW I vote in favor of natural poison.
DavisPS 03-15-04, 08:10 PM	Originally posted by Tyros Elessar did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say "just shoot claws". I said that they could have some kind of cartilagean frmation on their back or so that could be removed to be used as projectile. That way they could hunt by sneak attacking and by range. I figured that since this a worl being created, we could have a little more room for creativity and maybe some a little bit less logic. I think they would look cool with these specific features, that's all. OK, maybe shoot was the wrong work. Calm down. Why do they need this when they can easily make spears? Anyway, there should be some sort of advantage given to them for their intellegence. Against natural poisen, but I already know this vote is going to go against me. I agree entirely with the faces. You know what we need? More new threads with new ideas instead of more arguing on the same threads.
Dead_Body 03-15-04, 08:44 PM	Go poison (sorry David :)). For shooting th e claws...it is very interesting, but I think we should put it on a different creature. We don't want to many cool features on one little swamp ambusher. Anyone agree?
Galen 03-15-04, 08:48 PM	Originally posted by DavisPS You know what we need? More new threads with new ideas instead of more arguing on the same threads. [out of topic]I'd agree with you there if there are more of us here. Right now it's better to have few threads so we can concentrate our numbers and keep this place active. Suggestion, add a link of this place on your sig to attract members. If possible, make some positive comments about this place when making a post. We need to advertise this place if we plan to expand the ideas being talked about here. [/out of topic]
Tyros Elessar 03-16-04, 01:38 PM	Well... I thought about those spear thingys but they wouldn't be too good since they would be made out of rotten wood (that's the kind of wood you'd expect in a swamp). And, yes, I agree that we should probably guard the projectile thingy to another race. I find too cool to be wasted, though. Anyway, i vote for poison.
Agent Graves 03-16-04, 05:26 PM	g'day from down under, i've been enamoured by the board! the creative juices are pumping and ideas flowing... nuff of that just reading through the the swamp people i though i'd add my two cents.. for me the easiest way to picture someone elses idea is to think of bits and pieces from creations already made... i'll use the swamp creatures as an example - in my head i started with golum... (couldnt help it, sorry) gave it wet slimy skin (like one of the southern american poisones frogs) gills... atleast it helped in my head... but i was thinking about the poison thing, and one suggestion is like the frogs... or frog as it may be. I think it's from the amazon. The frog excretes poison onto their skin and the natives would kill the frogs and dip the ends of their spears in the poison. anyway, i vote natural posion as for the spines... there are animals whos teeth fall out and within a few weeks they've grown back again. The thought of spike from xmen came to mind
Galen 03-16-04, 06:54 PM	DavidPS's word sound prophetic after seeing the voting so far. Let's keep the vote open until tomorrow. Who knows, maybe a miracle happen and a massive anti-poison vote occur. :D :D :D Back on topic, someone suggested a tail for this race, should we incorporate it or not? If you agree on the tail issue, describe how it should look like. Personally I'm torn. Having a tail means extra mobility in the water but having a tail also means anyone can distinguish it from afar as something not human/elf/you-get-the-idea.
Dead_Body 03-16-04, 07:10 PM	No one should be seeing one anyways, as since it is a stealth predator. I think it should have a long, thick tail to help it swim and balance on land.
DavisPS 03-16-04, 08:26 PM	I've thought about a tail since I first saw this thread... and you know what I decided? Yes. A nice, muscular tail. They have to be fast swimmers that sneak up from behind and kill you. Go tails.
Agent Graves 03-16-04, 08:56 PM	they're tails could grow from a small point (what a frog has) to something like a gaint tadpole, smooth and slimy
Mansh00n 03-17-04, 02:34 PM	Pro natural poison. Features idea is also fine by me. The tail would be a real help in the water but not a necessity; frogs don’t have one and can swim very fast. If it does have a tail it has to be quite large because a small one is virtually useless (since it has a low level of water displacement). In that case it would indeed be easy to recognise them as non human/elf/whatever but they’ll be in the swamp most of the time and usually (partially) under water.
Galen 03-17-04, 07:12 PM	It seems our race have and uses poison to hunt/kill after all(tough luck DavidPS). It seems everyone is also in agreement of letting this race have a tail and most want it to be large and usable in the water. Since it is an agreement that it must be useful for swimming how will the tail look like? Will it be something looking like a tadpole(with fins) or something that look like that of an iquana(only slimy and not leathery)?
Agent Graves 03-17-04, 08:48 PM	lets not make it an aquatic dinosaur. what about a slimy humanoid with legs and tail... arms? like when the senator comes out of the ocean in the first xmen movie
Galen 03-17-04, 08:56 PM	Originally posted by Agent Graves lets not make it an aquatic dinosaur. what about a slimy humanoid with legs and tail... arms? like when the senator comes out of the ocean in the first xmen movie It is slimy because of its part amphibian nature, I'm just asking if the tail will look like that of a tadpole(tail with fins) or of an iguana(flat). It won't have reptilian texture(leather, scaly).
Dead_Body 03-17-04, 09:29 PM	Let's give that baby fins! Woo!
DavisPS 03-17-04, 10:21 PM	Originally posted by Galen It seems our race have and uses poison to hunt/kill after all(tough luck DavidPS). It seems everyone is also in agreement of letting this race have a tail and most want it to be large and usable in the water. Since it is an agreement that it must be useful for swimming how will the tail look like? Will it be something looking like a tadpole(with fins) or something that look like that of an iquana(only slimy and not leathery)? Iguana. If anyone dissagrees, I can state reasons, but if everyone agrees, no point. EDIT: Oh, yeah... Anyway. More lizard, less fish. Also, this is an amphibian, and amphibians don't usually have fins. Why? Because they are encumbering on land. And I don't think it would look good.
Agent Graves 03-17-04, 11:07 PM	yep, sorry worded my post wrong. i vote slimy iguana for the tail
Dead_Body 03-18-04, 03:41 PM	They don't have to be huge fins, just little things to help them swim faster. Besides, mabye they could use them as a stabbing or slashing weapon? The fins could be nice and sharp, and if the tail is quick enough, could provide an alternate means of fighting or self-defense if the situation should arise. Also, could the tails be like those of certian reptiles, being capable of growing back? With it probobly being such a vital part of hunting underwater, they should be able to, since if they don't then the little guys are kind of scewed. Any other thoughts?
DavisPS 03-18-04, 04:13 PM	So would an arm. Think of what happens if a lion loses a leg. Tough luck, if they manage to survive. Tail-fighting? Their tails would definately be strong, they need them to swim... I know! Instead of sharp fins, this is one way we will express that they have some intellect. Tail weapons! A simple blade, made of.. who knows? fang? mounted on their tail.
Tyros Elessar 03-18-04, 04:59 PM	Originally posted by DavisPS Tail weapons! For some reason, the moment I read that, num-chucks (sp?) sprang to my mind. :nonono: Anyway, I think a bladed tail wouldn't make much sense since it wouldn't be a necessary tool for their hunting. I can't really see much use for them in the swamp. And how would that be a proof of their intelect? :confused: I vote for a strong, flat tail that can possibly be used to trip opponents or to beat them senseless with a well placed hit.
Dead_Body 03-18-04, 06:11 PM	I was thinking more along the lines of a piercing weapon for the tail, if we even have one. The creature could lie in wait and when something walks by, stab it, then rend it with its claws. The tail would be a good preliminary hit, possibly even disorienting the victim, then the poison and claws would make sure it doesn't escape. The creature can then sit there and watch it die. For this method, the tip of the tail needs to be long and skinny, not to mention sharp. It would be used in a darting motion, a quick saber thrust, not a huge longblade getting stuck in the spine or something. Anyone second this proposal?
Galen 03-18-04, 07:11 PM	I'm all for a long flat(lengthwise) tail with barbs on the tip. I don't think making it sharp pointed end tail would be good for swimming. I think it would be hard to position and move a tail for a stabbing attack. A flat tail on the other hand would help them swim and can used as a whip. A see them as having arms and feet as primary fighting limbs but when an opening is seen, they can spin around and use the tail as a whip to either stun the enemy or cause a deep slash wounds.
Dead_Body 03-18-04, 08:03 PM	I guess I did forget about the swimming factor when I came up with my idea...that flat tail has more merit, so I move to second the "swamp thingy dude creature" having a flat tail for swimming and/or fighting.
Agent Graves 03-18-04, 09:57 PM	i'm wondering how big this thing is... is it human size or taller... or is it smaller like dog
Galen 03-18-04, 10:00 PM	Originally posted by Agent Graves i'm wondering how big this thing is... is it human size or taller... or is it smaller like dog Well, if you read page 1 & 2 I believe you'll come across a discussion agreeing that this race will be 4-5 feet tall(most agree to go for 4 feet). :P:P:P
DavisPS 03-18-04, 10:39 PM	Originally posted by Tyros Elessar For some reason, the moment I read that, num-chucks (sp?) sprang to my mind. :nonono: Anyway, I think a bladed tail wouldn't make much sense since it wouldn't be a necessary tool for their hunting. I can't really see much use for them in the swamp. And how would that be a proof of their intelect? :confused: Sorry if I didn't put it right, but I meant tail weapons that they make. Most early civilizations quickly developed spears. These guys stick their weapons on their tails.
Galen 03-19-04, 03:35 AM	As usual, i'll be gone for 2 days(weekends) so keep the discussion running and post any interesting ideas for this race.
Mansh00n 03-19-04, 06:57 AM	Originally posted by Galen A flat tail on the other hand would help them swim and can used as a whip. I see them as having arms and feet as primary fighting limbs but when an opening is seen, they can spin around and use the tail as a whip to either stun the enemy or cause a deep slash wounds. I agree on that. As for the regenration take a look at this. (http://eric.stamen.com/img/salamander.jpg) It's a salamander which regrows its leg. The swamp creature could do this too perhaps. Since it is a fantasy world it could regrow faster than that of a normal salamander.
nick012000 03-19-04, 07:48 PM	Originally posted by DavisPS Sorry if I didn't put it right, but I meant tail weapons that they make. Most early civilizations quickly developed spears. These guys stick their weapons on their tails. There already are two tail weapons in Savage Species: the tail blade (slashing) and tail club (bludgioning). They deal 1d8 damage, are exotic weapons, and the blade has a crit range of 19-20. They are medium weapons, and cost 15 and 12 gp, repectively. Maybe the swamp people should get a racial weapon affinity for them, like dwarves and Dwarven waraxes and ugroshes (so that they count as martial weapons instead of exotic)? Aslo, I think that Ranger would be an excellent favored class for this race.
Dead_Body 03-19-04, 10:44 PM	Originally posted by nick012000 There already are two tail weapons in Savage Species: the tail blade (slashing) and tail club (bludgioning). They deal 1d8 damage, are exotic weapons, and the blade has a crit range of 19-20. They are medium weapons, and cost 15 and 12 gp, repectively. Maybe the swamp people should get a racial weapon affinity for them, like dwarves and Dwarven waraxes and ugroshes (so that they count as martial weapons instead of exotic)? Aslo, I think that Ranger would be an excellent favored class for this race. We aren't converting things to DnD. This place is for making a world, which is then converted into cards for MTG or a world full of stuff for DnD. While your suggestions are sound, try to post them in a non-DnD stat-point way, okay?
DavisPS 03-20-04, 01:12 PM	Originally posted by Dead_Body We aren't converting things to DnD. This place is for making a world, which is then converted into cards for MTG or a world full of stuff for DnD. While your suggestions are sound, try to post them in a non-DnD stat-point way, okay? How about this: They use them. Tail weapons are a great idea. I'm glad we all seem to agree.
nick012000 03-21-04, 02:50 AM	Hmm... okay... [Swamp race] Ranger (3) :b: :r: First Strike Fear 3/3
Agent Graves 03-21-04, 06:06 PM	athough that doesnt really take into account the poison, where ever it comes from, (spat, excreted etc) and regeneration. Also is there a mechanic for poison damage taken every turn?
Galen 03-21-04, 07:42 PM	I notice you're giving this race D&D/MtG stats already. Let's leave those for later and concentrate on the race for now. So far we're still arguing how the tail should be used as a weapon. Most seems to favor for whipping. Mansh00n then suggested that the race can regenerate. Being part amphibian I tend to agree but I recommend a slower rate of regeneration since if they have to regrow lost limbs it means they must find food to fuel their replenishing process. Note: We're almost done on the physical traits, let's get this thing pick up some pace so we can go with racial traits. believe me, this is the part that gets really interesting.
ttime 03-23-04, 12:59 PM	((why do these always die by the time I post?)) Anyway... I think flat tails are ok.. but have you ever considered a squids jets? This could be used for a lot of stuff. 1)Movement: quick bursts of movement. They pull water through glands in their front, and shoot it out of glands in their backs. This makes them do short bursts of speed, useful for chasing prey, and fleeing predators, 2)Food(?): They could pick up small.. krill-like things, and have glands that sort them from the water. This could.. um.. well.. probably not work. But hey, its and idea. Ya. that would be cool. Also, that would make tails useless, and in some ways, more usefull. For instance: 1)They could draw in water, making them turn more, or not need to turn as much, aiming themselves, and then blasting off. 2)With tails.. they have more control. Well.. since there have been no posts in 2 days.. Im guessing you all died and I may be nex-... [Dies]
Mansh00n 03-23-04, 02:09 PM	Originally posted by ttime ((why do these always die by the time I post?)) Anyway... I think flat tails are ok.. but have you ever considered a squids jets? This could be used for a lot of stuff. 1)Movement: quick bursts of movement. They pull water through glands in their front, and shoot it out of glands in their backs. This makes them do short bursts of speed, useful for chasing prey, and fleeing predators, 2)Food(?): They could pick up small.. krill-like things, and have glands that sort them from the water. This could.. um.. well.. probably not work. But hey, its and idea. Ya. that would be cool. Also, that would make tails useless, and in some ways, more usefull. For instance: 1)They could draw in water, making them turn more, or not need to turn as much, aiming themselves, and then blasting off. 2)With tails.. they have more control. Well.. since there have been no posts in 2 days.. Im guessing you all died and I may be nex-... [Dies] hehe wont get rid of me that easily ;) squid stuff sounds fun but we're talking about a swamp as seen on the magic cards -> shallow, lots of mud, quicksand etc. The water is quite murky which might damage their glands. Also krill-like things won't easily survive in the water. Besides they would have to feed almost the entire day. In that case intelligence wouldn't be much use and the poison wouldn't be either. Nice ideas but not what we need for this race I think. Don't know what the rest thinks about it though. Originally posted by Galen Mansh00n then suggested that the race can regenerate. Being part amphibian I tend to agree but I recommend a slower rate of regeneration since if they have to regrow lost limbs it means they must find food to fuel their replenishing process. Yes but losing a body part is quite a disadvantage since they won't be able to hunt as successfully which means less food(unless the group tends for wounded members). Originally posted by Galen We're almost done on the physical traits... What about the children. Will they be larvae as with all amphibians or will they just be smaller variants of their parents?
Galen 03-23-04, 07:42 PM	Originally posted by Mansh00n Yes but losing a body part is quite a disadvantage since they won't be able to hunt as successfully which means less food(unless the group tends for wounded members). What about the children. Will they be larvae as with all amphibians or will they just be smaller variants of their parents? I'm assuming the sudden lack of activity is due to finals because summer break is almost here. Anyway.... We did agree on them living in groups so I'm assuming that as a small community they must tend to their sick and wounded. Regeneration means they can't be good hunters until fully healed but that doesn't stop them from being foragers and housekeepers. I suggest smaller variants, larvae tends to be vulnerable. With food and resources very scarce their race must be able to quickly help in the group. What do other's think?
Dead_Body 03-23-04, 08:47 PM	I don't know, with low rescurces, they might just abondon someone if they get injured. I'm all for the the concept, but they would have to be an advance species to care for one another. While we dwindle on the subject of physical traits, besides the obvious stuff the CoC won't let us mention, are there any differences between males and females? I don't think there would be, besides the females being better built to carry young, but I would like other opinions on this.
Galen 03-23-04, 08:56 PM	Originally posted by Dead_Body I don't know, with low rescurces, they might just abondon someone if they get injured. I'm all for the the concept, but they would have to be an advance species to care for one another. While we dwindle on the subject of physical traits, besides the obvious stuff the CoC won't let us mention, are there any differences between males and females? I don't think there would be, besides the females being better built to carry young, but I would like other opinions on this. Caring for the injured doesn't necessarily mean they are an advance specie. Pre-H-O-M-O Sapien hominids care for ther sick and wounded and this race is slightly more superior than them(based on my understanding of our discussion). Letting the injured scavenge and subvert to housekeeping means they are maximizing their numbers and capability. I agree on no significant differences. Males and females being physically equal means both can mix their task whenever needed. If nobobdy has anything more to add on physical characteristics, we can start the traits before I go on a weekend break. Edit: Interesting, H-O-M-O is censored.
Mansh00n 03-24-04, 04:29 AM	All is fine by me, maybe if someone gets a good idea about the physical characteristics we might add some more or change them a bit. Where do we start with? Social structures?
Obsidianjaerc 03-24-04, 10:58 PM	Okay , what if their tails were prehensile? That way the can easily strap on weapons for example...what if there were tall hollow firm shoots that grew in the shallower areas of the swamp? Basicly water bamboo. This could easily be fitted for their tail. They could just stick them on an voila a spiked weapon that could easily be poisoned. Also they could fasion rudimetary flat flippers to but on their prehensile tails or simply use them to stroke through the water. I definitly believe that they care for each other and in fact I'd imagene that their limbs would grow back like a salamander and their skin would quickly heal when moist. So extensive medical care wouldn't even be nessacary. In addition there are many plants in the swamp that have healing effects from which they could make poultices from. Another thing that occured to me; what if their blood was very watery and had no scent? That would certainly help against other preadators, unable to smell their blood. More later , I have some ideas about gender but for now . tata. P.S. If we decide on prehensile tails how long should they be? 2 feet?
Mansh00n 03-25-04, 06:09 AM	I persume that in such a hostile environment the strongest creature (whether male or female) should be the leader. This is sow with barbarians and they are usually smarter than these creatures. It would seem a loggical descision since they provide the most food. Which is the first need of these creatures. Right?
Galen 03-25-04, 08:09 PM	Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc Okay , what if their tails were prehensile? That way the can easily strap on weapons for example...what if there were tall hollow firm shoots that grew in the shallower areas of the swamp? Basicly water bamboo. This could easily be fitted for their tail. They could just stick them on an voila a spiked weapon that could easily be poisoned. Also they could fasion rudimetary flat flippers to but on their prehensile tails or simply use them to stroke through the water. I definitly believe that they care for each other and in fact I'd imagene that their limbs would grow back like a salamander and their skin would quickly heal when moist. So extensive medical care wouldn't even be nessacary. In addition there are many plants in the swamp that have healing effects from which they could make poultices from. Another thing that occured to me; what if their blood was very watery and had no scent? That would certainly help against other preadators, unable to smell their blood. More later , I have some ideas about gender but for now . tata. P.S. If we decide on prehensile tails how long should they be? 2 feet? Interesting idea. A flat yet prehensile tail could work but creating a flipper to place on the tail for swimming wouldn't work. If they are hunting and/or foraging on the swamp changing from flipper to spike weapon would slow stall them and probably give their location away if there are any prey or enemy nearby. I'm guessing the tail could be 3-4 feet long since this race is 4 feet tall. I believe we're down to minor issues when it comes to physical characterisitics so we can start talking about traits. Since they are not as evolved as other intelligent species I think they have no magical proficiency w/c will leave them vulnerable to magical attacks. To give them a fighting chance I suggest that they should have minor magical resistance. They have a good chance of shrugging off minor/weak spells but when it comes to powerful ones they are as vulnerable as other species.
Frostmourne 03-25-04, 08:39 PM	Hi! I've been browsing this forum lately, and I would like to help create this new world. On topic, I don't believe a prehensile makes very much sense for this species. Prehensile tails are generally used to aid a creature manuvere in trees; allowing them to grab, swing, and balance on the tree limbs. From what I have read this species appears to spend much of their time in or near the water. A prehensile tail would not aid them to particularly much in swimming, thats not really what it's designed for. I believe a tail like an iguanas or a newts would be better suited for this species, not only would it be better suited for swimming, but it would be more useful as a weapon. This is due to the fact that it would probably have more mass and weight, making the blows from the tail do more damage. I know the voting for this is over, but I just wanted to add my opinon on whether or not this species should have natural poison. I believe they should not, David swayed me with his arguments against it. I thank you all for your time, and hope I will become a productive member of this forum.
Galen 03-26-04, 04:20 AM	I'll be gone for 2 days again(weekends) so keep the discussion going and I'll catch up when I return.
Obsidianjaerc 03-26-04, 04:36 PM	First off Welcome Aboard Frostmourne I like the idea of a flat prehensile tale (PT). However the main reason I had the idea of a PT was for the spike weapon. Consider: they could use it to create a wake in the water to reduce friction (becoming more aerodynamic) thus aiding their speed. Then of course outside of the water the use it for combat. Also I would like to propose a name for this species. Slithes. I drew my inspiration of course from Lewis Carrol's (Charles Dodgeson's) Jabberwocky (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html) specificy 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves.... It just seemed fiting for swamp dwelling creatures. Or we could just call them Smegulls :smirk:
Frostmourne 03-26-04, 05:11 PM	I still believe that a newt like tail would fit them more, but if the majority of the people here would prefer a PT, thats fine with me. In fact, it would add a little something to the species, making it stand out from other creatures similar to it. On your choice for a name, I like it. However, I like to have alternatives, so I also propose Brillig, another word in Obsidianjaerc's quote. This name also would seem apropriate, sounds like some noise a frog or a toad would make, and it seems to me this race is in some ways connected to frogs and toads. Finnaly, as Galen I will not have acess to the internet during the weekend. Just wanted to let you all know so you didn't think I'd quickly lost interest. See you all Monday!
Galen 03-28-04, 07:54 PM	It seems we're again split in half with regards to tail and name. Let's make a vote for it shall we? Personally I prefer flat one for better mobility in the water. It is also a good weapon when used as a flat whip(imagine a wide leather belt hitting you on the face) enemies or any other threats. For the name, we got Slithe and Brillig. Personally I like Slithe with a minor exception, could we spell it as Slythe? Finally, what does everyone think of the minor magic resistance trait?
Dead_Body 03-28-04, 09:43 PM	The flat tail idea works for me, as does the name. I don't think it should have magic resistance, though, since it ambushes things, and if they fight back it would seem to be more adept at dodgings spells then restisting them.
glenchuy 03-29-04, 07:21 PM	could somebody please post a summary so far as to how the thingie appears to be?
Galen 03-29-04, 07:32 PM	Half humanoid half amphibian with moist, dark green skin. The limbs are long and thin with arms and feet being webbed and has claws. The creature is 4 feet tall at most and has up to 4 feet of flat lizard like tail(see what an iguana tail look like). The head looks like that of an auratog for male and the female looks like a brine hag. I think that covers everything. I'm still waiting for the name and Dead_Body prefers more of stealth capability than minor magic resistance. What does everyone think?
glenchuy 03-29-04, 07:45 PM	that's enough for me to work on. would you want me to work on it? hmm... brine hag?!? auratog??! why are the males visibly "uglier" than the females?
Galen 03-29-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by glenchuy that's enough for me to work on. would you want me to work on it? hmm... brine hag?!? auratog??! why are the males visibly "uglier" than the females? I'm not asking you to, it's a voluntary basis. If you want to then go for it, we'll greatly appreciate it. BTW I'm posting the link of your Virix sketch on the other thread. Don't ask me, they suggested it and I simply agreed.
glenchuy 03-29-04, 08:01 PM	Originally posted by Galen I'm not asking you to, it's a voluntary basis. Don't ask me, they suggested it and I simply agreed. i know :)
Galen 03-31-04, 07:19 PM	Courtesy of glenchuy, the sketch of the swamp dweller(tadpolemen (http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/glenchuy/lst?.dir=/My+Documents/World+Creation+Project&.view=l) )
Galen 04-04-04, 08:29 PM	Friendly bump and reminder, where is everyone?
the_one_true_shea 09-13-06, 01:55 AM	Wandering, Probably not lost though. Swamp dwellers. I always got the impression of some sorta mutated merfolk off these guys. A mer-drow perhaps?