Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Galen 10-23-05, 09:40 AM	It's been a very loooooong time since I posted here and I feel my interest perking again. Anybody here would like to create and discuss on how we could make the merfolk culture? I'm thinking on a new twist, merfolks are the first race of this world and are considered the most sophisticated and knowledgable race. How advance and inteligent they are? Some of the races treat merfolk with respect and most fear them because they are thousands of years ahead of everyone. When it comes to culture, technology and magic no one even comes close to them. Of course with great strides there are some sacrifices, their minds have prospered but they have become physically weak. To start the ball rolling, how do we tackle their culture(i.e. society structures and laws)?
ESUpin 10-23-05, 11:37 AM	The way I see it, since the merfolk were the first race(make sense, since life started in the ocean), they have been long forgotten my land dwellers. However, this view is definitely cliched. Since you mentioned the merfolk getting physically weaker while growing more capable mentally, I was thinking something along the lines of the Inhumans(don't know if anyone knows who they are, but...). Unable to live in the world polluted by the land dwellers, they constructed an invisible dome and live in inside it. If they were to leave the dome, they would be poisoned by the outside air. I suppose the merfolk would have some sort of Parliament that votes on laws, etc. Being such an advanced civilization, they probably do not have a lower class. However, this might not be the case in a civilization with a large population. Since you mentioned the merfolk being physically weak, they would have to rely on their inventions to do most of the labor.
Galen 10-24-05, 09:59 AM	The way I see it, since the merfolk were the first race(make sense, since life started in the ocean), they have been long forgotten my land dwellers. However, this view is definitely cliched. Definitely cliched. I'm thinking they play a more active role on what happens above waters but usually play neutral(arbiters/third party/middle ground). Since you mentioned the merfolk getting physically weaker while growing more capable mentally, I was thinking something along the lines of the Inhumans(don't know if anyone knows who they are, but...). Unable to live in the world polluted by the land dwellers, they constructed an invisible dome and live in inside it. If they were to leave the dome, they would be poisoned by the outside air. ... Since you mentioned the merfolk being physically weak, they would have to rely on their inventions to do most of the labor. Definitely agree here. Concentrating on mental superiority, they have become very vulnerable to outside environment and incapable of doing hard manual labor. If they venture out of their environment they must use vehicles and/or armor to sustain and/or protect them. Machines and magics are used to do the manual labors. Being underwater means the machines/contraptions must be able to resist salt water corrosion. I wouldn't necessarily think of a dome or something similar to that but more of a magical enchantment enclosing their city(ies?) with protection from possible external harm. Having magic to sustain a habitable place for them is better since barriers, dome or any kind of enclosement could be damaged and endanger them. Being the best in magic and located underwater means other races would practically have no chance of removing that enchantment. I suppose the merfolk would have some sort of Parliament that votes on laws, etc. Being such an advanced civilization, they probably do not have a lower class. However, this might not be the case in a civilization with a large population. Parliamentary government? I don't know about this one. Having existed for a very long time makes me thing they have tried various forms of government so I'm thinking on a type that merges all the good parts of each known kinds of governments and minimizes or eliminates the negative aspects. As for no lower classes, if there are upper classes then ther must be lower classes but their lower classes have a much superior way of life compared to other races.
the_one_true_shea 10-26-05, 08:35 PM	Hello Galen! I read your lizard people of the desert thread - :cool: !..! In a related note there have been some merfolk stirrings hereabouts Quoto/Quto/Xchi? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=516692) I also read somewhere a neat idea about there being an ancient civilization that was SOOO more advanced than the contemporary society that they destroyed themselves. - almost jordinian. :thinks: something about gnomes.. :mage: me an brklf talked about luminous beings. But I really like the idea of the atlantian mer-things. Deffinitly should be amphibious lizards. I think that we could tie the sandpeople in here - give all the merfolk the four legs thing?? I think that would be neat. The desert version (adapted over centuries so they) are bigger and centaurian, wheras the medium sized (and more common ) version have a second set of legs that are more like ... guidefins. If they are the first civilized race - then they should deffinitly have gone through lots and lots of government systems. A good question is : "what should the famous ones be?" If the Quto (of Cobe) are one famous merfolk civilization - there should be an older or counterpart "good city." If the merfolk are the first and finest - there should be a scond grand city - perhaps an equally as evil twin city? The desert lizards were a LN society right? There shold deffinitly be an "inversed" .... :lightbulb this would be so cool.. maybe a little cheesy... Take Quto or another ancient merfolk city and say that it was built underwater... but then it raised out of the water! Like Atlantis! In reverse! ... and it was so long ago it was when they were still aquatic.. what if it was the rock thing in the middle of the desert lizards desert... oooh and its so old that its worn down to just a disk basically :thinks: Then there could be the original (aquatic), reborn (desert), and halfbreed (amphibious) "merfolk/lizard people" - all :u::u:
Rny2 10-26-05, 09:51 PM	Look into your summary, shea. Have there ever been any cities/ cultures that were mentioned in discussions, but were abandoned? Could any of them fit here?
Galen 10-28-05, 10:17 PM	Thank you all for the warm welcome! :D:D:D Going back to the topic I think we might have to stick to the standard merfolk race here(with the exception that they are physically weak) just for familiarity sake. Being merfolks made me think they can transform their fins into legs (MtG and movie cliché thing) but going quadpeds seems a bit too much. As to the form of govenrments well, the most famous are the ones that will be more commonly seen in the current form of goverment. Being a merfolk what do you think the kind of goverments would they prefer(parliamentary, democratic, dictatorial, etc)? Choosing the most plausible ones we can create the current hybrid goverment they are using. I think one of popular ones would be monarchy having one absolute ruler to handle a nation can give this race a very colorful history(despots, good rulers, incompetent ones, etc) and helps map how their architecture and technology advances throughout their history(kings tend to like new toys :D:D:D). As for a twin evil/inverse city, if a lot of members here wants that then we can create it but I recommend we create the foundation of this advance merfolk society first so we'll know how to create it's opposite. Some threads here talks of lost advance civilization. Some of them may fit in here but that would depend on where it is located(marine or semi amphibious) and what purpose it used to have. I'm really looking forward to finishing the foundation of the merfolk society. Once we really get on with the details(history, architecture, magic and technology ) we'll definitely be having some fun trying to come up with ideas on how to show how advance they are compared to other races. For now it's the form of government and society structure we have to form up.
the_one_true_shea 11-02-05, 08:39 PM	Thank you all for the warm welcome! :D:D:D Going back to the topic I think we might have to stick to the standard merfolk race here(with the exception that they are physically weak) just for familiarity sake. Being merfolks made me think they can transform their fins into legs (MtG and movie cliché thing) but going quadpeds seems a bit too much. nono the normal merfolk arnt quadrupeds. Well, they are "technically" sextopedial.. er. yeah. Six limbs. Four fins and two arms. The two big fins are the prupulsion fins, and the two mid fins are the steerage. When walking on land they have to use the midfins to support proper walking. So on land they are two legged - but underwater they swim with four fins. And I for one think they should be "lizard" type merfolk. As in they are cold blooded, scales, eggs, etc. As for a twin evil/inverse city, if a lot of members here wants that then we can create it but I recommend we create the foundation of this advance merfolk society first so we'll know how to create it's opposite. I'm really looking forward to finishing the foundation of the merfolk society. Once we really get on with the details(history, architecture, magic and technology ) we'll definitely be having some fun trying to come up with ideas on how to show how advance they are compared to other races. For now it's the form of government and society structure we have to form up. So we start at the begging? Dawn of time slash "oldest recorded history" or somewhere in the middle? - First or most Famous? If we start in the middle - I think we should be bring the Cobe thing in right off. Use the Quto post as a foundation for the city. Starting at the beggining we could have a non-necromantic start. We could also completly leave Quto out of things for now and let it get woven in later. Ideas Cheese - "Schools" :shifty: - old legends to speak of the first buildings being storehouses of knowledge... "schools" for the merfolk. - Kept out of water so as to preserve delicate things. Some sealed carefully beneath the waves. Brings the oldest "structures" in as being "treasure troves" instead of "homes" - which is the reality of our world. I naturally think of chaos when I think of the lement of water.. but what if all the greatest civilizations of Merfolk have been extreemly lawful.. and temporary. Kinda chinese dynasty style. Perhaps "rulership" is a manifest thing like "he who pulls the trident from the coral is the king of the seventeen seas" ... or somethin'
Galen 11-02-05, 09:41 PM	nono the normal merfolk arnt quadrupeds. Well, they are "technically" sextopedial.. er. yeah. Six limbs. Four fins and two arms. The two big fins are the prupulsion fins, and the two mid fins are the steerage. When walking on land they have to use the midfins to support proper walking. So on land they are two legged - but underwater they swim with four fins. And I for one think they should be "lizard" type merfolk. As in they are cold blooded, scales, eggs, etc. Okay, that's clears up the leg issue. This one I still disagree. I still think Merfolk would be closer to fish and amphibians than lizards. They also have scales(amphibians on the other hands have smooth or wart covered skins) , are cold blooded and lay eggs. Some fishes can breathe water and can survive out of it as long as they can keep moist(catfish and lungfish comes to mind). I suggest we stick to standard "fish" type of merfolk. So we start at the begging? Dawn of time slash "oldest recorded history" or somewhere in the middle? - First or most Famous? If we start in the middle - I think we should be bring the Cobe thing in right off. Use the Quto post as a foundation for the city. Starting at the beggining we could have a non-necromantic start. We could also completly leave Quto out of things for now and let it get woven in later. Ideas Cheese - "Schools" :shifty: - old legends to speak of the first buildings being storehouses of knowledge... "schools" for the merfolk. - Kept out of water so as to preserve delicate things. Some sealed carefully beneath the waves. Brings the oldest "structures" in as being "treasure troves" instead of "homes" - which is the reality of our world. I naturally think of chaos when I think of the lement of water.. but what if all the greatest civilizations of Merfolk have been extreemly lawful.. and temporary. Kinda chinese dynasty style. Perhaps "rulership" is a manifest thing like "he who pulls the trident from the coral is the king of the seventeen seas" ... or somethin' This one we can cheat a bit. We can start at the middle of their era and fill up their old days with legends and vague myths. Just like ours, they don't have a very clear information of their ancient time before they start writing down our history. Lol! Funny thing, a large group of fish is called a "school". If we follow their evolution then the first structures where they first reside in would be coral reefs and underwater caves. As they become more civilized they started improving their caves they live in and eventually they found means to create crude structures. The rest, as they say, is history. I definitely recommend their info vault would be something that can resist the test of time and water. So maybe their first writing materials were chisel and stone tablets. Nowadays with their advance magic and technology they have means for paper to survive underwater without turning into a useless mushy pulp. Well, everything started out of chaos before there is order so their past would definitely be barbaric and medieval compared to their current civilization. As for leadership, that's a very interesting idea. I'd like to hear what others would have to say and if they agree with your suggestion.
the_one_true_shea 01-12-06, 10:51 PM	Been a minute. Fish vs Lizard - as far as pure marine life your probably right. What? Turtles are the only marine lizards.. right? Maybe a couple other ones but lizards arn't so much the marine thing are they? I'm a big fan of the idea of coming up with a coool merfolk race. The legs thing popped into my head. Back to "inhuman" culture btw Black Bolt wants to talk to you *snicker: Advanced... @ESUpin - Why would an advanced civilization not have an underclass? The more advanced civilization seem to get the larger the dichotomy between the ups and the downs. Perhaps what you meant was a strong civil society?
Rny2 01-13-06, 05:58 PM	Fish vs Lizard - as far as pure marine life your probably right. What? Turtles are the only marine lizards.. right? Maybe a couple other ones but lizards arn't so much the marine thing are they? There's always the marine iguana as an example. Of course, you could look at the plesiosaurs, and some of the prehistoric crocodiles. Quite important marine lizards. Lizards on the whole, though, are supposed to be coming out of water, cutting ties with water, being land-based, etc., so using lizards would be strange unless we have a pre-cursor to the merfolk on land which has a pre-cursor in water, which defeats the purpose of the ancient merfolk race. @ESUpin - Why would an advanced civilization not have an underclass? The more advanced civilization seem to get the larger the dichotomy between the ups and the downs. Perhaps what you meant was a strong civil society? Another way to look at it could be that the underclass has been replaced by personalized machines, as in machines with personality. Also, the population could be very sparse and the concentration on invention/improvement takes emphasis off of class and society.
the_one_true_shea 01-13-06, 08:52 PM	Another way to look at it could be that the underclass has been replaced by personalized machines, as in machines with personality. Also, the population could be very sparse and the concentration on invention/improvement takes emphasis off of class and society. hmmm, *nods* highly trained squid.. hehe. I usually like the idea of having an animal driven technology for a fantasy setting (I consider elementals animals so...). However, this is theoretically the oldest race in the game.. if anyone had gotten around to developing some tech it would be them. I guess what I was saying is that there will always be the haves and the havenots and the havenothings. The best I can imagine is a society where the havenothings are actually hard to distinguish between the havenots. Perhaps a communistic society.. hmm. But really I like tying the idea of the Anceint technologically advanced civiliztion in with these guys.. (shades of atlantis but) the problem with that is then we have to explain why that went away.. and decide how much they have gotten back. Gets int to that marine predecessor to the land predecessor to the current marine species.. though that happened with whales.. as a side note. Perhaps they are by nature and history a slow moving race. Developments are not highly important when all you need comes to you on the current. Perhaps their "technology" revolves around collection. Instead of growing and harvesting underwater crops they have big catchers that strain fish and stuff out of the open current. I imagine grand undergound grottos.. why? Cause after a few centuries of being underwater architects they would realize that the water will wear away even stone (specially salt water) and thats not to mention the dirty buildup of sediment. So they could have dug down.. or built their first "true cities" near uderwater chasms. Still water inside caverns would leave stone work more intact over the centuries. (and make great dungeons if your characters had the right setup! "how many potions of water breathing do we need? Were going to be down there for a week.."
Rny2 01-13-06, 10:53 PM	The rise and fall of advanced thought in the merfolk civilization could follow such a timeline: The Long Days: The terrestial merfolk first develop sentience and band together. During this period, the merfolk are fervent and extremely nationalistic, needing the tribe-city lest they die in isolation. Communist ideals are developed during this time and flourish in the tribe-cities. Mute Light: As they reach the peak of their tech, the merfolk slowly decline in terms of spiritual and physical prowess. They are no longer concerned about self-safety and social problems as they lose touch with reality. Most tribe-cities take to the seas to better concentrate on their newfound intelligence, building bio-states. Fall of Night: Though they were in the seas first, other species slowly encroach on the tribe-cities. The tech of the merfolk becomes impractical and purely intellectual and they cannot withstand the relentless force of barbarian hordes. The cities that survive retreat to the depths and return to constructing with stone. Social rebellion and strife is common. Dry Choking: An extreme resurgence of radical Communist ideas in the chasm cities. Civil wars devastate the merfolk until the new radicals finally gain control, but not before several cities collapse. The new radicals return the merfolk to the surface, but their outdated technology cannot establish a foothold on the world above. These neo-merfolk are scattered around the world, never to gain prominence again.
the_one_true_shea 01-19-06, 09:23 PM	whew! How about some sun on the water? The Long Days: The rise of the their civilization. Their first and longest lasting developments are large group based devices. - Fish netting things. like fishing boats only the water moves and the nets stay in the same place - Storage and rapid transport. perhaps a big wing thing (think stealth bomber) that they can propel quickly through the water. Using their own swimming ability (but with very little effort - like a big group bycicle) - and of course - the first tribe-cities. The Mute Light: Capable of moving around the world, faster than any save the gods and dragons, the merfolk .. (need a name) .. become the first privateers and the first true traders. They built floating merchant cities that were simply giant version of their long days undersea-sails.. with some turf put on "the top" for landwalkers comfort. A capitolistic thrust moves through the culture of the disperat tribe-cities, but the communal and religious roots prevent an explosion of commerce. Instead refinery and artistic enhancement to their hallmark technologies are developed. The world matures around them, but themselves they remain the same. Fall of Night: The more aggressive and younger aquatic races such as the Quoto and others begin to cut into the merfolk's sea trade monopoly. Even landwalkers take to the seas with vigor! One after the other tribe-cities become reticent and reclusive. Mooring their floating barges, sometimes sinking them symbolically cutting off their connection to the surface world. Now is a time of heroes. Single lights below the sea shine with purpose while the masses of the merfolk are settling down to sleep with their fishes. (Name) is said to have stolen the nearly decrepit merchant sail of the (Name) tribe, sailing it to (Name) and refurbishing it with modern "arcane" technologies. Considered a legend on land, (Name) is still called traitor by his own people. The Dry Choking: The radical and idealistic elements within the now generationally secluded tribe-cities.. still the same undersea structures built before the dawn of civilization on land.. become uncontainable. Youths seek the truth in the stories of "the sky." The wise seek the riches disdaned and nearly forgotten by their hegemonic ancestors, with their own eyes looking upwards... but not to the skies.. to the shores. The true downfall of the (Merfolk) began with secret alliances between the merfolk criminal subculture and the landwalker sea traders. With the now far more technological prowess. The traders came to depths in search of the fabled riches of old. When they found that gold and silver had never intruiged the merfolk.. they left their cities in ruins instead. Today's Merfolk:[/b] Now only a few scattered and secluded cites of merfolk are to be found anywhere. Merfolk are a common sight in any seaside city. No ship sails without merfolk hands aboard.. but they are a people without a civilization. Not even the merfolk themselves consider their future's "as a people" - and only a few even dare to dream of a new city of merfolk. Deep in the trenches of the seas the religious zealots hide their ever more cultish cities. Activly creating divine maelstroms to prevent travelers from reaching them. Breeding undersea monsters has become their primary technology.. a backslide by most heuristics. Once renowed for their communal civility the merfolk hidebounds have truely turned their face on progress. Barbarism is advocated against both landwakers and other aquatics. Monarchy and Theocracy become the primary form of government in the secret cities of the merfolk. A Shining City: The dream goes like this, a city "under sea and over stone" both above and below the waves. Not hidden deep below the surface but a city, built upon a small island, whose spires seek the skies, and whose architecture spirals to the depths. From there the merfolk will return to their proper place.. so they say, but there is no such city. The shining city is just a fairy tale told to merfolk ghetto children while their parents work the docks.[b]
Drindin 01-20-06, 03:01 AM	... The shining city is just a fairy tale told to merfolk ghetto children while their parents work the docks. Or is it...? There is talk that maybe somewhere, such a city does exist, but it is kept out of site due to magics and skillful disguising. Some half-crazed sailors have returned speaking about such a place... But who trusts a drunken, one-eyed, one-legged, half-armed sailor?
Galen 01-20-06, 08:42 AM	I really should check this place out more often than usual. Got a lot to catch up and to think I started this. Anyway... I quite agree with the merfolk history with a minor nitpicking on why they opted to live in secrecy and are somewhat in smaller numbers than what is expected from usual races. Personally I prefer the_one_true_shea's background history of their early days(until the part where they became secluded). As far as I can speculate on why they chose seclusion the ff concepts are feasible: 1) Their interaction with other races(under and above) during ancient times resulted in wars so violent that they were almost wiped out and opted to continue to expand their knowledge and technology in seclusion. The races could be amphibians, reptiles, homarids, cephalids or a different race of merfolks. The good thing about this concept is that this will open up ideas about the old times. We can add and talk about the ancient, extinct races that fought with and/or against the merfolks. Some ancient ruins from unknown races/origin could be incorporated on the merfolks history. 2) They have achieved such high level of intellectual and technological superiority that they become aloof and stopped interaction with other races because they consider them hardly any better than cattles. The good thing about this concept is that we have a solid foundation why in recent times they have started interacting with other races once again. For starters they have reached their limit intellectually/technologically and saw that the other races are improving in great strides that they decided to watch closely if they could learn new ways to better themselves and possibly eliminate any potential threat. The rest of you can decide with way we should take and expand on it.
the_one_true_shea 01-21-06, 03:15 PM	What I am thinking right there with the "wars" bit. These are not a violent people. Combo with the superiority thing - they consider themselves superior because of thier passivity. Instead of fighting the retracted. Became more and more evasive where they had before been the ubiquitously present sailor/traders. They took to the seas first.. but were not the most dominate. Their developments continued along the lines of art and culture. "Refinements" Also - the "Culture" vanished.. now the Merfolk live amongst the civlized world much as the Half elf. Homeless, drifting. They can survive outside of water (for d20 rules I say they suffer an equivalent of "sun blindness- ala orc/drow) they require 4(2?)x the amout of water per day or they begin to dehydrate - but they dont actually suffocate out of water). So the merfolk society hasnt decided to come out of seclusion .. yet. Their people are scattered throught the world - but in "the present" were looking at two merfolk cultures. The "fundamentalists" that have retreated to the ancient grotto's, and the "wastrels" that wonder the earth without homelands (many may believe the fundamentalists themselves to be as mythic as the shining city) some card Ideas I have are: The Mersail - artifact that :t: to give 4 target creture island walk. the first mortal sea vessle of the (unnamed) world The Battle Fin - artifact creature 1/5 :u::u: to negate damage from any attacking creature without island walk. the merfolk were better at retreat than assualt Merfolk Grotto 2 colorless - Special Land :t: produce :u: :t: & (X) - Search your Library for a card with only blue and (X) colorless. Put that card into play as though it had just been cast. The treasures of the merfolk were always waterlogged. Ancient Grotto Enchanment :u: Put a grotto token on target merfolk. :t::b::u: All merfolk with a grotto tolken are indestructable as long as Ancient grotto remains tapped.
the_one_true_shea 01-21-06, 03:17 PM	But who trusts a drunken, one-eyed, one-legged, half-armed sailor? :D only a true adventurer! :D
Drindin 01-22-06, 12:43 AM	:D only a true adventurer! :D I think my point has been made.
Galen 01-22-06, 08:55 AM	What I am thinking right there with the "wars" bit. These are not a violent people. Combo with the superiority thing - they consider themselves superior because of thier passivity. Instead of fighting the retracted. Became more and more evasive where they had before been the ubiquitously present sailor/traders. They took to the seas first.. but were not the most dominate. Their developments continued along the lines of art and culture. "Refinements" Also - the "Culture" vanished.. now the Merfolk live amongst the civlized world much as the Half elf. Homeless, drifting. They can survive outside of water (for d20 rules I say they suffer an equivalent of "sun blindness- ala orc/drow) they require 4(2?)x the amout of water per day or they begin to dehydrate - but they dont actually suffocate out of water). So the merfolk society hasnt decided to come out of seclusion .. yet. Their people are scattered throught the world - but in "the present" were looking at two merfolk cultures. The "fundamentalists" that have retreated to the ancient grotto's, and the "wastrels" that wonder the earth without homelands (many may believe the fundamentalists themselves to be as mythic as the shining city) Just clarifying, if you mean they became reclusive because of their superiority then it would be closer to the second concept. I would rather think they isolated themselves because they don't see anything worth their attention(kinda like a kid losing their interest in toys and moved on) AKA Ego the size of their world. Being merfolk they obviouly can't stand away from the water for too long w/o rehydrating themselves. I'd say they should be a lot more vulnerable compared to ordinary merfolk when exposed to air because they are physically weak and they have been in underwater seclusion for so long. I think they prefer to use a suit when coming out of the water and interacting with other races(them suited make great "first impression" and they don't have to worry of drying up). As for their coming out of seclusion I rather think they have shown their presence more than that that but they control how much they let other race know about them. The superiority complex plus facing the unknown is a good intimidation factor.
the_one_true_shea 01-27-06, 03:47 PM	I see an advanced and boistrous society that spanned the world before the rest of the civlizations really got rolling. Perhaps an etr/lar but they would have been gone (or vanishing) even before the merfolk became worldwide, anyway.. They were there with highly trained animals and a lazy/fair mercatile society as the rest of the races took to the sea. They mapped the world, they named the continents, they named many of the races. "Merfolk" is the basis for "common" because in the beggining they were everywhere. Both indepandant traveling troups/crews/etc that shared convoys of ships and large ("huge") creatures. Using whales like donkeys.. Slowely the other races took to the seas. At first their ships were clunky, "they have to stay above water" ... "it'll never work" the merfolk said then. The technology of the merfolk didnt progress. It didnt have to. Individual "blue mages" developed wonders but the society as a whole stayed the same for centuries. Meanwhile the landwalkers made leaps and bounds. Soon, far sooner than the merfolk could have ever expected, the first war ships took to the seas. The merfolk had never put weapons on their ships. Some had battle trained tiamats but despite the ubiquity of merfolk traders.. and the oppulant wealth they had gathered from every corner of the world .. they were not warriors. Humans and orcs created cannons with the help of the dwarves and the gnomes. Elves created ships that cut through the water like no other. The merfolk eventually built a battle sail.. but it weaponry was most used while running away. The merfolk were arrogant about even their retreet. "They knew better" than to fight. They had seen the wonders of the world and perhaps it was time for them to rest quietly beneath the sea. They still rule beneath the waves. None of the other races can survive in the water. What care have the merfolk for the land? Nonetheless, hundreds of thousands of merfolk remain on the surface. Dislocated or evacuated from the their ancestral homes. A "landwalker" breed of merfolk. Certainly not desert dwellers, but able to survive above land better than their long lost brethren. Umm, how about "Landwalkers" have to have twice as much water as a standard humanoid in a day or suffer dehydration, while the "lost ones" require 4x water. D&D requires 1 ounce of water a day or suffer dehydration.. hardly onerous, but 2 ounces.. 4? Starts to become pertinant in a stressful game session. One time I had a set of players. One was a dwarf One was a :shifty: "Scrub" - one of my plant people. One was a "plauge" .. yeah it was a wierd game. The scrub didnt have to breath, but had to be exposed to sunlight once a day (or suffer dehydration effects) and had to be planted.. or suffer "suffocation" - she had to "hold her breath" to walk.. and had to have water on the same rate as the dwarf had to have food. It was interesting game. The plauge had to be inhabiting a host to breath. Had to "feed" on 1hp/hd of the host per day, and didnt have a dehydration effect. :D Just mentioning. The funniest thing about that group - the dwarf had the easiest time. Druid, he could summon his own food, but there was a pretty long stint underground where the scrub was just wasting away for a bit - dropped some sunrods cause I felt bad. The plauge had to live off of bugs for quite a bit .. cant do dead hosts neh?