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| Dream Spinner06-21-03, 01:28 PM | Our previously decided divine pantheon is that there is no one true god or pantheon, but that faith is a powerful force and gods rise from the hearts of the people. The world began with simply Gaia as the only divine being. But when sentient species evolved, as they created stories of gods and faith in these gods grew, the divine beings rose from the devotion. Any one god's power only extends to where he or she has followers. So, basically, a god's powers are at its most by his or her own temples, moderate in areas where his or her believers reside, nearly nonexistant outside of the region of faith, and almost omnipotence (actual omnipotence if the god is supposed to be omnipotent) within his or her home-temple. A home-temple is a god's home on the mortal world, which also acts as a temple. A god changes, loses, or gains power as the people's beliefs change. A god of war in a violent civilization may be ultra-powerful, but the same god after the civilization has achieved ultimate order and peace would practically lose all of his or her power as less and less people believe in his domains. Example: Ancient Greece The Olympians are believed to live on Mt. Olympus (the divine otherworld one, not the actual mountain), so they live there. In the mortal world, Athena has a temple-home in Athens called the Parthenon (I believe, the facts are getting fuzzy). So, if Ancient Greece existed in our world, Athena would be at the peak of her power in the Parthenon, very powerful in Athens (her city) and her temples everywhere else, moderately-powerful in Greece (where they worship her) with occasional boosts in power near places of her domain (universities, battlefields, etc.), and no power in like Egypt. If she were to travel to Egypt, once outside of her region, she'll probably be forced into a human-like form where she has only powerful-mage-caliber skills (which is weak to gods) and could be easy prey for an Egyptian god (like Set). She may get stronger if she becomes friends with an Egyptian god (like Isis) as she will slowly be woven into Egyptian culture as a powerful immortal who is one of Isis' close friends. Does this all make sense? |
| Bandido06-22-03, 10:03 AM | That all makes sense to me. :) I'd make a little addition, though. Priests of a god, and whoever else is granted power by a god, are still granted this power wherever they are in the world, although they receive a little boost in power when they are in their god's inner sanctum. If the god takes a mortal form to leave his/her realm, however, they lose all their granted powers while the god retains that form. Does that sound right? |
| Dream Spinner06-22-03, 11:15 AM | Yep. Now we need the actual pantheons. Okay, I already made 2. The Dwarven gods (the Obliskans), and the Demortali gods. The Demortali are an Underdark species. See the Underdark thread. (There is a lot there, believe me.) The Obliskans Khánma, Father Forge King God of the Forge and Patron of Blacksmiths Leader of the gods, he is of a dwarvish body. His eyes glow a firey red, as of the forge, and his hair is red-hot metal wire. In one hand is a forge hammer and in the other, a broadsword, still hot from the forge. His clothes have layers of soot on it, covering its actual colour. His symbol is carved into forges and weapons to bless them. His clerics are all blacksmiths that forge great holy weapons. These weapons are sought after by many heroes traveling in Khánma's region of power. Tiárnque, Mother Hearth Protectress Goddess of the Home and Patron of Mothers Wife of Khánma, she is also of a dwarvish body. (Okay, they pretty much are all of a dwarvish body.) Her eyes glows with a kindly red light. Her hair is of glowing golden thread. She is the Protectress of Homes and Family. Her symbol is drawn onto each door of homes to stop invaders of homes. Offerings of part of the family's meal is burned during each meal to bless their home. She has no clerics for all who wish for a healthy family and good home prays to her. Mátok, Chaos Child Volcano God of Wildfires Son of Khánma and Tiárnque, he is the god of uncontrolled fire and the like. Rather than adhere to the strict lifestyles of the Obliskans, he ran away to live alone. His volcano home is also where his home-temple is, obviously, but the temple is built within a cavern whose entrance is on the side of the volcano. This entrance is probably covered by hardened lava by now. His clerics reside in small temples near volcanoes. This way, the volcano god can teleport from volcano to volcano all over the world. Although he is a dissappointment, he is always welcomed home for a visit, although the people are warned to keep water handy when he does. Tákra, Sister Storm Merciful Goddess of Lightning With her flashing eyes and hair of lightning strands and booming voice, she is a fear-inspiring being. Despite her features, she is a kind goddess, like her mother. Unlike some gods of rains, she would never withhold rain from the people's farms. If she were angry, one needn't worry about drought, but worry about flooding and lightning. She easily forgives though and the people would never find themselves in need of an ark. Her clerics spend their time farming, handing out surpluses of food to the needy and storing the rest for possible future needs, never gorging themselves on their beautiful crops. Reak, Sleeper of Stone Patient Goddess of Mountains Sister of Khánma, her gray features make her seem more like a statue than a goddess. Add the fact that she is meditating most of the time and you would think she's a statue if you saw her. Goddess of stone, clay, and everything else having to do with rocks in nature, she is one of the most powerful gods of the Obliskans. Grankwe, Master of Masonry Stubborn God of Architecture Reak's child, he is the sturdy god of masonry. His symbol is a common sight in the dwarven tunnels and caves for it promotes stability and helps stop cave-in's. His clerics are often also royal inspectors, the people who go around and check the kingdom for possible future trouble with the architecture. Kelia, Angel of Art Creative Goddess of Sculpting Grankwe's twin, she is the inspiring goddess of stone art. As her brother is the column that holds up the roof, she is the woman the column is carved into. He the dome, she the carvings on the dome. Meriad, One of Ore Mighty God of Metals The most physically powerful of the gods, he is the father of Grankwe and Kelia. He is the only one of the Meriad not of a dwarvish stature. He is more like a tall beardless male human, with golden (as in the metal, not colour) hair and silver skin. His eyes are like made of liquid silver and it glows slightly. His clerics can do powerful magics with metal, especially communing with it and calling forth images from it, prophetic stuff. Meriad's clerics are also capable of makinig powerful metal golems. Deámondus, Root Reaper Nature God of Destruction Unlike the roots of a plant that slowly digs into a rock and split it apart, Deámondus is more a sledgehammer sort of god, as he is the deity of destruction. With wild brown hair with thorny vines and branches tangled in it and eyes that glow green menacingly, he is a frightening person to be near. His clerics are similar in their wild ways. They tend to scatter seeds all over their temple grounds and let them grow however they wish. People wishing to visit the temple (which is almost nonexistant) must fight through a jungle of venomous vines and carnivorous flowers to reach the front door. He is the brother of Khánma. Yeie, Coward of the Clouds Uncertain Goddess of the Air Yeie is the cowardly goddess of gases. Although she holds immense power, especially near her home-temple, she is too weak-willed to wield it properly. With beautiful hair that rival the beauty of the sky and eyes that shine like the sun does behind a cloud (you know, that light effect where it's blocked out, but you can still see it go through), Deámondus convinced her to wed him before any of her other suitors could. Under his control, heroes working against Deámondus' will may one day find themselves in an oxygenless field, but her natural kind nature sometimes show by the sudden rushing in of oxygen and her scared apologies for "weakening" towards the end of the spell to Deámondus. Her clerics tend to be wanderers, walkers of the open fields, despite their dwarven nature. Tivneik, the Golden Thread Trustworthy God of Vows He is Marraige, Trust, Vow, and Guilt. With his bronze hair and golden eyes, his domain is, unlike the other Obliskans who rules over elements, of blood. He is the jovial promise of friends to meet again in a decade, the dark vow of revenge, the moonlit whispered engagement, and he is the feelings that vows are based on and the feelings of vows kept and vows broken. His clerics perform wedding ceremonies, are trusted confidants, and the one you confess your sins in confidence to. |
| WizO_Iyala06-22-03, 11:45 AM | I'll admit that the religiousness side of things is a debate that I somehow seemed to miss as it co-incided with some time off but I really like what's come out of this :) That said, I also find it very confusing because to me the idea of gods having any power doesn't make sense from an MTG point of view. I think the only sort of power explored in MTG has been nature and magic, the idea of holy power is something new to getmy head around. Just to divert into Magic mode for a moment, perhaps this could be reflecting in a mechanic that could be given to religiously inclined creatures and enhanced by legendary lands reprecsenting temples. Do gods play a part in D&D? Would one ever turn up or would it be more a case of the effect the god's power would have on their clerics & priests? |
| Bandido06-22-03, 12:40 PM | In a typical D&D campaign, the main way in which the gods exert an effect on a world is through their priests, and other servants - as well as being player characters, the servants of evil gods are often enemies, and disrupting the plans of evil gods is plot device that is used a fair bit (in the last campaign I played in, we had to stop someone from becoming an evil god). Meeting gods is quite rare, and facing them in combat is rarer still, but neither is unheard of. As for gods in Magic not having power, I'd have to disagree. Maybe not mechanically, but flavour-wise, I think they have. If you read the flavour text on some Homelands cards (such as Abbey Gargoyles (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Abbey+Gargoyles)), it's clear Serra was doing something to earn the adulation and worship of the people, so she must have had some power. But I feel the main use of the gods in this campaign in an M:tG sense is more obvious than that. The gods are beings out to gain power for themselves by using their vast magical power and their worshippers, who are controlled by them as surely as any summoned creature. Who are the gods? Magic players. ;) Instead of being a powerful wizard or planeswalker vying for power, when you play using this set, you could also be a god. To some extent, this has also been done in Magic with Worship (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Worship). Another way to represent this could be to treat the creatures you control as your worshippers, and have religion-themed cards that have effects based on how many creatures you control. The temples idea is also good, but I can't think of any effects they'd have off-hand. Does anyone else have any ideas on what they could do? |
| Dream Spinner06-23-03, 12:38 PM | Originally posted by Bandido But I feel the main use of the gods in this campaign in an M:tG sense is more obvious than that. The gods are beings out to gain power for themselves by using their vast magical power and their worshippers, who are controlled by them as surely as any summoned creature. Who are the gods? Magic players. ;) Instead of being a powerful wizard or planeswalker vying for power, when you play using this set, you could also be a god. To some extent, this has also been done in Magic with Worship (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Worship). Another way to represent this could be to treat the creatures you control as your worshippers, and have religion-themed cards that have effects based on how many creatures you control. The temples idea is also good, but I can't think of any effects they'd have off-hand. Does anyone else have any ideas on what they could do? Yeah, I had something like that in Wollo's big Ultimate contest thing for the final round. Worship was my inspiration and I would've won that round, but this one person vote came in too late. I tied. :( This isn't one of those cards, but is one I just made up: Myths of Glory (2):w::w::w: Enchantment At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, you gain 1 life for each creature you control. "She is Divine and will be our Saviour!" they shouted, but truly, they were her saviours. |
| Dream Spinner06-23-03, 12:44 PM | The Gods of the Demortali Being Father; Breather of Gold He is Creation, father of the Demortali. He sacrificed his right arm to create the earth, His blood creating life, his gaze creating air, and his breath creating metals. Then, He created His children, the first of the Demortali. On the mortal world, Being appears as a orb of light, his size different to each person. Within the light, each person would see creation from his or her own perspective. Like a druid may see a tree growing or a dwarf may see a sword being forged. This light is Being shining brightly in His Glory. His actual shape is similar to the Demortali, except his eyes are two impossibly bright beams of golden light and his breath carries the taste of gold. His hair is long and shining with an unending luster. He wears simple clothes, but they shine brightly with a golden light. He is Beyond, and does not trifle himself with minor matters but if the Demortali's existence is threatened, He will ride from His Golden Paradise to save them all. Wieammo Dancer of Passion; Mother of Compassion She is the ruler of passion and all that the heart rules. Hate and love. She is the lack of all logic. She is freedom, expression, music, poetry, dance. She looks like a woman Demortali with fiery silver hair and blazing eyes. Her clothing is made of emotions. Looking at her invokes memories of great passion. Inspiration is her shoeless footsteps and insanity is her laughter. Ommeanka Writer of Passings; Father of Technology He is Logic. He is the aloof Recorder of Time and the Furtherer of Technology. His realm is Order and Law. He is Control. The frame that limits passion and keeps it in control. He appears as a completely calm male Demortali. His eyes glow of a gentle blue and has straight silvery-white hair. He wears a simple robe and carries a scroll that looks normal, but if you were to try and unroll it, there would be no end, at least not for a long distance. Written in simple black ink in clear and unvaried handwriting is the past of the Demortali. Everything that occurs involving any number of Demortali is recorded by Ommeanka. Tilloar The Ferryman He is Death, the Great Releaser. When a person dies, he will come and with his breath, release that person's soul from his or her body. He has no home, except for his home-temple, but wanders forever, in his own time where a single day could be a year for him or vice-versa. With every death, his time speeds up so that he may release that soul before too long and with every release, his time slows back down. He is as a male Demortali and is completely covered, except his face and hands, with a white robe, shining brightly. His touch is cool and soothing, healing. His face is horrifying to all but the to-die, who see his true, handsome self. Ycevil The Temptress; The Devourer She is Darkness. Evil. Addiction. Lust. Greed. Power. She bled the [Fire-Drow] into being, cackled the [Dark Faeries] to life, and spat the [Shadow Rats] into creation. Each of her fingers is a different Sin and her lips is Temptation itself. She combines the darker sides of both Passion and Logic. She is called the Devourer because evil devours one being. Each time a person kills another, his heart freezes a little more and the rush gets a little more enjoyable. Each time a person takes a dosage of drugs, he gets even more so addicted to it, needing it more and more. She is Temptation. She is the Devourer. She is Unstoppable. She is in every single person's heart. And though they dare not, everyone wishes to embrace Her. |
| Bandido06-23-03, 02:50 PM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner Myths of Glory (2):w::w::w: Enchantment At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, you gain 1 life for each creature you control. "She is Divine and will be our Saviour!" they shouted, but truly, they were her saviours. It's a good card. I was thinking we could have a cycle of them. Well, here's what I came up with. Yes, I know it's an almost exact copy of Worship. No, I don't care. :D Undeserved Exaltation 3 :w::w::w: Enchant World Damage that would reduce your life total to less than X instead reduces it to X, where X is the number of creatures you control. Believe in the idol, not the ideal. And, off the top of my head: Divine Forbiddance 2 :u:*4 Enchant World All spells are countered unless their caster pays an additional X, where X is the number of creatures you control. A wizard's will can hold back a single spell. The will of a thousand peons can hold back the rising sun. I like Enchant Worlds. :) They allow you to have really stupid mechanics without having to worry about how they mesh together. :devil: What did you think of them? Completely over the top, right? Anyway, on to comments on, and D&D mechanical conversions of, the gods of the Demortali. Being - a nice overdeity. Alignment - Lawful Good; Domains - Metal, Sun, Protection, Law, Good. Favoured weapon - Unarmed attack. Wieammo - also good. Alignment - Chaotic Neutral. Domains - Chaos, Craft, Luck. Favoured weapon - dagger. Ommeanka - From the description, he appears to be magically-inclined as well as lawful. Correct me if I'm wrong. Alignment = Lawful Neutral. Domains - Law, Magic, Craft. Favoured weapon - quarterstaff. Tilloar - a nicer version of the grim reaper :) . Alignment - Lawful good. Domains - Good, Fate, Death (or Repose), Time. Favoured weapon - unarmed attack. Ycevil - Nasty, nasty god. Alignment - Neutral Evil. Domains - Chaos, Evil, Death, Destruction. Favoured weapon - whip dagger (i.e. the scourge, an instrument of torture :devil: ) |
| WizO_Iyala06-23-03, 05:22 PM | Originally posted by Bandido As for gods in Magic not having power, I'd have to disagree. Maybe not mechanically, but flavour-wise, I think they have. If you read the flavour text on some Homelands cards (such as Abbey Gargoyles (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Abbey+Gargoyles)), it's clear Serra was doing something to earn the adulation and worship of the people, so she must have had some power. Yeah but Serra was quite probably dead at that point :( plus she was just a planeswalker worshiped as a god. My big problem is getting my head around the idea of gods as an actual force rather than a superstition in the world. It's just a case of getting used to the idea. Particularly if I can somehow get it into a keyword. Keywords explain everything http://www.members.shaw.ca/eogan/emoticons/iyala.gif Thoughts on the Shalendae (got to learn to spell that or change their name :/ ) pantheon so far : I want it to be small. I can imagine there being only two main gods, one worshiped by women and one by men, then 4-6 other very, very minor gods that are worshiped by insanely fanatical fairies in little obsessivly devoted cults of weirdness. I can imagine these cultists being generally ignored by the other fairies because they'd keep to themselves but the main stream group would be wary of the exceptionaly sharp fanatical-cult-style knives of the others. Okay, that gives me an idea for an addition to the fairies :D Would this work with the pantheon system? |
| Bandido06-23-03, 09:32 PM | Originally posted by WizO_Iyala I want it to be small. I can imagine there being only two main gods, one worshiped by women and one by men, then 4-6 other very, very minor gods that are worshiped by insanely fanatical fairies in little obsessivly devoted cults of weirdness. <snip> Would this work with the pantheon system? [/B] Well, it would work, but we'd need to know more about the gods. What views do each of the main gods have? Who worships them (okay, you've answered that part), and why? |
| Dream Spinner06-24-03, 02:16 PM | Originally posted by Bandido Being - a nice overdeity. Alignment - Lawful Good; Domains - Metal, Sun, Protection, Law, Good. Favoured weapon - Unarmed attack. Wieammo - also good. Alignment - Chaotic Good. Domains - Chaos, Good, Trickery, Luck. Favoured weapon - dagger. Ommeanka - From the description, he appears to be magically-inclined as well as lawful. Correct me if I'm wrong. Alignment = Lawful Neutral. Domains - Law, Magic, Time, Craft. Favoured weapon - quarterstaff. Tilloar - a nicer version of the grim reaper :) . Alignment - Lawful good. Domains - Good, Fate, Death (or Repose), Time. Favoured weapon - scythe (that's a bit cheesy, I know. Any other ideas?.) Ycevil - Nasty, nasty god. Alignment - Chaotic Evil. Domains - Chaos, Evil, Death, Destruction. Favoured weapon - whip dagger (i.e. the scourge, an instrument of torture :devil: ) Being would also have Life as a domain, that is, if there is one, as he is a Creation god. Wieammo and Ommeanka should both be Neutral, turning towards Good. Basically, Wieammo and Ommeanka would share most domains, as most domains have both a chaotic and orderly side to them. So, for magic, Wieammo would have chaotic magicks such as summoning earthquakes while Ommeanka would have orderly magicks such as stopping an earthquake. Tilloar would be Good? Yeah, I guess he would be seen as Good from the Demortalurom point of view. Oh and he would be weaponless. He needs no weapon because through his touch, he can free any soul from its body. Ycevil is Neutral Evil. She uses both Order and Chaos for her evil ways. |
| WizO_Iyala06-24-03, 08:16 PM | Questions, questions, questions, Bandido. I just needed to check my idea was viable before starting work on it :) A bit of history on the Shalendae religion. A few thousand years before the current time, the Shalendae society was almsot ripped apart by religious wars. About half the population worshiped one two twin gods with the others beng split roughly evenly between four other deities. The two major factions went to war over the esentially trivial question of which was the true god of the air. They vied for the support of the smaller factions in an attempt to get the hand however eventually the real point of the war was lost and the two main faction turned on the smaller groups however they defeated. The result of this was that the twin gods fell from power and the majority of the worship is now based on grounds of gender. The Shalendae veiw their gods as deities that are as much there to serve them as they are there to worship the gods. Consequently their legends tend to see their deities as being in service to the race. Ku'shae Patron deity for Shalendae women Kulshae is a ferocious god, legend tells that he was once a human warlord who ruled the lands above ground. A fairy woman became obsessed with him, she used arcane magic to reach his size so she might be a suitable match for him and he took her as his wfe. In the years that followed he betrayed her and failed to appreciate what she had given up to be with him and the great cost of the magic she had used. When she finally caught him at his infidelity, the spell was broken and the magic turned in on the fairy, destroying her. With her dying breath she cursed him to be forever bound to the protection of the fairy women. He takes the form not of a Shalendae man but a human with the wings of a black dragon. Ath'iah Patron deity for Shaldendae men Legend claims that Ath'iah was born an elf. She gre up as an outcast among her people, as other elves tended the forests and defended their homelands she could only meddle and make trouble. For the most part her actions were simply playful fun however her streak of malice eventualy led to her exile. In her years of isolation, Ath'iah studied the dark powers of the world and evetually cast a spell giving her the form of a drak fairy so could take revenge upon her people and continue her meddling from the skies. She accepted the price of the spell - that after her death she would be bound to the protection of Shalendae men. She appears as a Shalendae woman with jet back wings and tattos covering her entire body. Unike the fairies, she often is shown with farily pronounced elvish ears. These two gods are worshiped by rughly 95% of the population as the only gods that really matter. Although each gender would only worship their own gods, they accept the existance of the other. Neither god has any particular specialism, both would be prayed to for any problem. However, chance occurances in weather, nature or other unexplainable things would generally be blamed upon Ku'shae however annoying actions by other fairies would normally be considered the influence of Ath'iah - both deities can act on either gender even though only one gender would pray to them. If that looks okay, I'l have a bit of a think about the cult gods for the race :) any thoughts so far? |
| Prophet of Chaos06-24-03, 11:08 PM | if gods just pop up out of no where based on belief and only have power where they are believed in then they are really only figments of ppl's imaginations. This could men that anyone could theoretically make themselves a god, or kill one by simnly refusing to believe in it (or at least negate the effects of their powers on that person) |
| Bandido06-25-03, 08:05 AM | Dream Spinner: Being - no Life Domain, unfortunately. Wieammo and Ommeanka - sharing most domains? Which domains? As Wieammo appears to have an aspect of crafting things, I'll give her the Craft domain, and as she's neutral, I'll take away the Good domain. Tilloar - changes will be implemented. From your description, I saw him as a benevolent ender of people's pain :) . Ycevil - NE. Okay. Iyala: They're both air gods? And they're both evil? Okay. My opinions and some provisional D&D stuff follow. Ku'Shae - Okay, a warlord god, who women worship. This implies to me that female Shalendae are the ones who typically go raiding. When you say 'ruled', I'm going to guess he ruled by being the strongest one around, rather than by tradition - it fits with the fairies more. D&D stuff: Alignment = Chaotic Evil; Domains - Chaos, War, Air, Strength; Favoured Weapon - Battleaxe. Ath'iah - a manipulative, meddling god worshipped by men. That seems to work - this gives the Shalendae the opposite gender roles from stereotypical humans. D&D stuff: Alignment - Chaotic Evil; Domains - Chaos, Air, Trickery, Retribution; Favoured weapon - Kukri (which is a Very Sharp Knife ;) ). Prophet of Chaos - You're exaggerating somewhat. If everyone stopped believing in a god, then that god would cease to exist, but while the god still exists, he wields an astonishing amount of power, more than enough that a simple display of his might would quickly gather more worshippers. It would be very difficult to kill a god by simply choosing to disbelieve in him. I don't see that one person's denial of a god's power would stop that god's powers from affecting him - that seems wrong, and undermines the Warring Pantheons idea this world follows. As for men becoming gods, that is entirely possible. If a man in this world manages to fool enough people into thinking that he is a god, and gets enough of them to worship him, then he will become a god. Of course, that might not be as easy as it sounds - the established gods of a region aren't going to approve of some upstart taking away their followers. |
| Dream Spinner06-25-03, 12:27 PM | Originally posted by Bandido Prophet of Chaos - You're exaggerating somewhat. If everyone stopped believing in a god, then that god would cease to exist, but while the god still exists, he wields an astonishing amount of power, more than enough that a simple display of his might would quickly gather more worshippers. It would be very difficult to kill a god by simply choosing to disbelieve in him. I don't see that one person's denial of a god's power would stop that god's powers from affecting him - that seems wrong, and undermines the Warring Pantheons idea this world follows. As for men becoming gods, that is entirely possible. If a man in this world manages to fool enough people into thinking that he is a god, and gets enough of them to worship him, then he will become a god. Of course, that might not be as easy as it sounds - the established gods of a region aren't going to approve of some upstart taking away their followers. Yes. The gods would have entire cultures believing in them for them to exist in the first place, so one person disbelieving a god would be like one villager leaving an empire. Yeah, less power, but by how much? Certainly not a lot. And one person not believing in a god's powers doesn't make him immune to them. The powers are real, through the faith of thousands or millions. And the second part, yeah, like I explained it in the original thread. I just had an idea. Imaginary friends. Although a regular child may not be able to believe in one enough to bring it alive, a powerful (demigod, a lot of magic in his blood, etc.) one might be able to through his especially powerful belief. Is there already a creature like this in the Monster Manual stuff? |
| Dream Spinner06-25-03, 12:41 PM | The Lyriwls Yewinae The All-Seeing Yewinae is the god of trees and wisdom. Dressed in simple silvery-green robes with his long softly white hair and old ivy-green eyes, he is a modest god. His words are soft, but carries wisdom beyond all time. As he walks the mortal world in his immortal form, his presence is the noisy silence filled with all the whisperings of the trees, his voice the elusive breeze amoung the leaves, his footsteps the moving of the great roots underground. His temples tend to be really small, as in one "room". His temples are often circles of mighty trees, mostly oaks, hawthorns, or ashes, with a single opening in the circle, for comers and goers. This temple is tended to by one or two clerics who live in naturally (through Yewinae's aid) created homes up in the branches of the trees. His clerics are natural tenders of trees and may be very talented at prophetic works. Yewinae often works with coincidences. For example, one of his mortal forms that he takes is the innocent child that shows up at your door, hungry and through innocent questions, get you to tell him your sad story, and leaves with a wave, one of your cookies, and a little bit of wisdom told in an innocently obvious way. Lirane The Innocent Lirane is the goddess of the defenseless woodland creatures and innocence. Protectress of all those cute squirrels, she is dressed in a shimmering brown clothes and has hair as soft as any baby bunny's, gentle brown eyes, and the cute beginnings of antlers. She may spend mortal weeks wandering the woodlands, saving the occasional doe from a hunter by having a groundhog suddenly pop up under the hunter's foot or the pretty songbird from a vicious falcon with a sudden gust of wind. Her protected animals can always sense her presence, whether immortal or mortal. Her temples are split between two kinds. One kind reside in meadows or forests, tended by a single druid-cleric who provides for weary travelers and/or hungry animals. The other kind are larger and often act as daycare-like places for little children. These temples are loved by the elven children because there are always fresh snacks, pretty songbirds singing, and animals that aren't shy of being touched. Her clerics are pacifists and healers. Some also develop a more primal power, where they can commune with animals or even shapeshift away from danger. Rewuil The Enrapturing Rewuil is the god of flowers and other small plants, as well as beauty and love. His form is never the same, each being, mortal or divine, seeing him as perfectly beautiful in whatever way they may see beauty. He is also the prideful side of the elves, shown in his almost-narcisissm, where his attention may drift away occasionally, like pollen, to refocus on his reflection. Only he sees his true form, and to see it is said to cause insanity in anyone but him, hence the name of the mind-warping herb known as Rewuil's Face. As he is also the god of herbs, he may be cosidered a healing god, but truly, his focus lies more on illusion-inducing herbs or herbs that can be used to beautify oneself. Rewuil's temples consist of at least one great room for marraiges, at least one big public bath where pieces and juices of herbs are mixed into the water. These baths' waters does wonders for one's health, as well as skin. The courtyards of these temples are beautiful and many a marraige proposal, first kisses, proclaimed loves had taken place by the romantic ponds surrounded by moonlight-blossoming flowers. Rewuil's clerics are romantics and amazing at planning beautiful weddings, baby showers, and other formal events. Some learn to heal, while a few others may even actually perform weddings. Meria The Welcome Meria is the goddess of dawn, the sun, and hope. In a glorious shining robe of gold, her very presence inspires hope beyond all darkness. With hair of solar beams and eyes that shine of unending light, she drives out all darkness from her surroundings. Meria's temples are tall towers with a single clear gem at its very tip. This gem, about the size of a human head, glow at night with the collected light of the sun. These gems drives darkness away and calls forth lost travelers. Fragments of the stone collect sunlight just as well as the whole and acts as safer candles in important buildings or wealthy homes at night. Meria's clerics wear bright golden clothing and are easily recognized by the gold jewelry they were in their hair. Her clerics are great encouragers and can bring light back into the darkest hearts. They can summon lights and enchant crystals or gems to glow. More experienced clerics can summon will-o'-the-wisp-like beings that search the forests for the lost, send messages across commanders during a war quickly via a system like Morse code, or even flash and change colours in a synchronized fashion to act as quieter fireworks. Sernyea The Hidden Sernyea is the goddess of the night, of the moon, of change, and of all things hidden. In her shining white dress, her elven features are pearly white and she wears a crown of moonstone (which is a real type of stone and no, isn't actually from the moon). Her eyes are a crystal-clear blue. Though aloof and mysterious, she is kind and always tries her best to alleviate any pain Trifnei had dealt. Sernyea's clerics are just as mysterious as the goddess, but just as kind as well. They are good listeners for emotional problems, and know healing spells that use moonlight for physical ailments. Sernyea clerics also have expansive libraries, but the books within are kept from the public for many of them hold secrets not even the clerics dare to know. The temples of Sernyea are as white as the clerics' robes and Sernyea herself. The lands upon the temples are built are hallowed grounds at night, where shadows are embraced and light isn't the always the best thing to wish for and where werewolves can find safe haven... Trifnei The Mad Goddess of the full moon, eclipses, blood, violence, and insanity, she is the second face of Sernyea the Hidden. Trifnei is identical to Sernyea in features, but her hair is wild and her dress drenched in blood. With eyes flashing the red of the lunar eclipse, her sword weeps blood and her shriek brings bloody justice. Her blessed are the insane, who've embraced the hidden her other self holds dear. Her cursed are those driven to temporary insanity and/or unforgivable violence and those inflicted with lycanthropy. She has no temples herself, but during full moons, moonlight falls on Sernyea's temples as bloodred light and those temples become hers. Trifnei is only out during this time, so she spends it out. It is also only under the enchanted red light are lycanthropes protected from their curse, unless Sernyea believes they deserve the curse, which is unusual for most are either victims of the original werewolves' life-changing bite and many others are random victims of Trifnea. She has no clerics except the very rare ones, but during the full moon, both the insane and the sane share the voice of Trifnei, voicing her thoughts, commands, and haunting laughs. Virfilan The Pensive God of calm waters, silence, peace, and thoughts, Verfilan is often found meditating somewhere, contemplating matters of the millenia and entertaining notions beyond mortal minds. His aura of blue light, radiating from his gray-blue eyes, white-gray hair, and deep blue robes, invokes calmness all around him. And although he is the god of calmness and knowledge, he is not necessarily the bane of passion. In fact, every slow breath he breathes out becomes a muse, who goes out and finds one that is yet uninspired and will bind herself to him or her, forever inspiring him or her. His temples would be simple, but for the amazing system of ponds, streams, and gentle waterfalls. If one were to place a single leaf onto one of the streams. It'll slowly float across the entire system back to its start, but each time, the path would be different. Despite the constant motion of the water, the slowness of the movement, the sound of light drops, are calming and invokes the need for the people within to whisper. Verfilan's clerics are librarians and/or meditators in nature and one could imagine jumping from behind a door and shouting "BOO!" would kill off at least one of the clerics in the room. Verfilan's clerics are also known for their receptive memories. Weyrein The Free Weyrein is the god of the sky, weather, expression, and freedom. Though of an elven form, Weyrein has a pair of golden wings, matching his golden tunic and pants. His hair is a shimmering gray, occasionally darker, occasionally lighter, as are his eyes. He is always accompanied by a dove, an owl, a crow, and an eagle, each representing the four seasons (the dove-spring, the eagle-summer, the owl-autumn, and the crow-winter). Weyrein is also the patron of rebels and artists. Weyrein's temples are often surrounded by many decidious trees. His temples have no roof over most of it, only the clerics' living areas are covered. Poets, painters, and such are common near Weyrein's temples for they are sure to find an eager audience there, made up of both Weyrein's clerics and of other artists. His clerics are those whose dreams and thoughts cannot be smothered. They are never ashamed for their thoughts, only if they hide them. They are the first to start a rebellion if need be and enjoy beautiful literature, music, and visual arts wherever they may be found. Despite their passionate side, it is always a bad thing to get on a Weyrein cleric's violent side. Once provoked to do so, Weyrein's clerics are not afraid to invoke their destructive powers. For example, channeling lightning through themselves during a storm at assailants. Nainrei The Hunter Nainrei is the god of predatory animals, the hunt, and strategy. Dressed in typical elven hunting clothes, Nainrei carries a bow, a quiver of arrows, and a dagger. Accompanying him is what would be a plain falcon, except its eyes glow with a reddish light. Nainrei may look through this falcon's eyes as if they were his own. Though he is the god of the hunt and predators, he really only cares for killing for survival. Killing for sport is really under Trifnei's reign. Nainrei is also the god of fishing, but this is a lesser domain. Nainrei's temples are similar to the temples of Lirane (the ones in the wild). Here, predator animals can be tended to by the clerics. Nainrei's clerics are usually good at both the bow and strategizing. They sometimes serve as war counsellors. Pineleia The Protectress Goddess of the home, agriculture, family, and safety, Pineleia's nickname, The Protectress, is obvious in its origins. Unlike most goddesses, who are beautiful, though sometimes frightening at the same time, Pineleia has the stereotypical figure of a mother, with hips that have gone through several births and a slightly worn look, after taking care of active children and the house. Pineleia's hair has different grains growing out of it aloung with regular black hair, and she also wears certain fruits or vegetables as jewelry. Pineleia's temples often consists of a small, cozy building and a medium-sized garden of fruit trees and vegetables. The temples are open to all and the meadow that often surrounds the temple is a favored place for a picnic. Pineleia's temples that are in more populated areas with less open space lack this meadow, but still has its garden. Pineleia's clerics are often motherly and are able gardeners/farmers. They are also good at protection spells, and a group of them could probably maintain an entire sphere of protection around a city for up to a week. Urugai The Constant Urugai is the god of stone, trust, vows, and law. Urugai is dressed in the same clothing elven government officials usually wear and has cold-gray eyes. Aloof and xenophobic, he is also representative of one aspect of the elves' culture. Urugai only cares for the logical side of things, and that there is no excuse for breaking the law. Urugai's temples are usually built of a beautiful stone, like marble. Urugai's temples are solemn places, usually also serving as monuments to great past leaders. Urugai's clerics are serious people. They often serve as the mages on a police-force. Despite their god's rule in vow, Urugai's clerics do not perform weddings. It is nearly impossible to break a truth vow made to one of Urugai's clerics and doing so sends a signal to the cleric. Heril The Negotiator God of the coin, economy, deals, negotiation, and surrender. Though a compromising god, Heril is more of a selfish god, caring only for himself. He may aid others, but usually only if it aids him as well. Dressed in rich clothing, Heril is charming and to the unwary, seems like a friend. Though the god of merchants, he is also the patron of thieves. Despite this, his favorites are con artists, masters of trickery and evasion. Heril's temples usually are mostly one large hall, which serves as a marketplace. Enchanted against thieves and more attractive to tourists than a regular market, merchants flock to these temples to sell their wares. Heril's clerics are dealmakers and negotiators of peace treaties, and they always know when and how to retreat, making them fair, if not good, secondary war counsels. |
| WizO_Iyala06-26-03, 06:37 PM | Originally posted by Bandido They're both air gods? And they're both evil? Okay. My opinions and some provisional D&D stuff follow. No, the air gods are to follow. And they're not really evil. This is all tied into how I think the Shaldendae would view their gods. Most of the population believe in the idea of a one true god (I know we said there is no one true god but Shalendae are allowed to be wrong :)) Roughy speaking, to the men of the Shalendae the one true god is Ath'iah, though they'd acknowledge that the worship of Ku'shae was perfectly valid. It's more like two aspects of the same holy force. And to the Shalendae, the gods are someone to blame for stuff going on. Their protection is something they're owed rather than something they should need to ask for. The legends say that the gods were both evil in their past lives before being condemned to immortality. They're not really evil now, not really good either. They're just there. If something goes wrong, they curse the god and if they were going into a particularly bad duel they might offer up an extra prayer to get the god's attention but otherwise they just believe in the sense of knowing the god exists and let them get on with their jobs. |
| WizO_Iyala06-26-03, 07:17 PM | The Twins The myth of the twins is one of the oldest of the Shalendae people and it precedes what they percieve as the birth of their race. The myth is almost one of an underdark creation myth. For the first part of the Shalendae history, the twins were the dominant gods in the pantheon (see the confusing start to my other pantheon post). Myth removed to other thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=637581#post637581) The worshipers of the twins acknowledge the existance and validity of the other gods in the Shalendae pantheon however they see the twins as the oldest and most powerful, all the others are just upstart challengers to the twins. Unusually the followers of the twins accept the right of other races to live within the underdark and believe they too are protected by the twins. However they believe that the Shalendae are the chosen race and therefore entitled to kill/eat anyone else they might ome across underground. Worshipers of the twins are typicaly magic users and a few old traditionalists who still follow the old ways. Following the cult of the twins tends to run along family lines. The twins are: Orasius - god of creatures, earth, the moon, darkness, water, birds, birth, war and various other things Enesyru - god of trees, fire, the sun, light, volcanos, insects and squirmy things, death, knowledge and various other things Despite the very chaotic and seemingly random responsiblities of each of the twins, followers are fiercely dedicated to the worship of their particular god and hate the followers of the other god (hence the religious war). All in all they're generally dismissed as weird obsessive cultists that are best ignored however as the strongest magic users tend to be followers of one of the twins, other Shalendae put up with them. And yes, I realise that most of the things that the Twins are responsible for are irrelevant to Shalendae as they're underground most of the time but they take great pride in the fact that they are gods of so many things :) |
| Dream Spinner06-27-03, 04:15 PM | First off, the elven gods are slightly delayed but should be up by tomorrow. Second of all, those twins sound a lot like what the Shalendae would sound like. :) Third of all, I'll recreate the Myth thread so you can move it over there, but keep the description of the actual gods here. Fourth, I don't think you can use Gaia in your story because those people are really fanatic about their god/this myth, right? So then, that means they really believe that Gaia did this, making it so that she did, pulling her into reality as a god, not just the ultra-true-only-divine being person. We really want to keep her out of everything, well, at least I do. Unless we're coming up with some epic story and Gaia rises up to live instead of just being and a bunch of chaos happens. Blah blah blah. Heroes. Gods wanting to extend their powers all across the world by killing Gaia (how?). Blah blah blah. The end. |
| Dream Spinner06-28-03, 03:03 AM | Humans I don't know. Since humans range a lot more than other species, they'll probably have at least 2 major pantheons amoung themselves. We'll have to half-develop the human empires and such to come up with the human gods. |
| Bandido06-28-03, 10:07 AM | Okay, gods, gods, gods...where to start? Dream Spinner: Yewinae: I like him. :) Alignment - Chaotic Good; Domains - Plant, Good, Protection, Earth; Favoured weapon - quarterstaff. Lirane: Interesting. Not a typical god you'd associate with nature, as that's normally 'red in tooth and claw', but nice, nonetheless. Alignment - Neutral Good; Domains: Good, Protection, Animal; Favoured weapon - net (peaceful, soppy god gets a peaceful, soppy weapon). Rewuil: Hmmm, okay. A god of pride. This is going to be difficult for the D&D side.... Alignment - Chaotic Neutral; Domains: Chaos, Plant, Trickery, Illusion; Favoured weapon - Rapier (something wielded by fops, like Rewuil). Meria; Ah, yes, the obligatory good sun god :D . I like the gems though - they're quite new, and revive an idea which is overdone (albeit legitimately). The Will o'the Wisps are a nice touch. Alignment - Neutral good; Domains - Sun, Good, Travel, Protection; Favoured weapon - spear (any). Sernyea: A goddess of secrets, and of the moon. She seems good. And I know what moonstone is. Alignment - Chaotic Good; Domains - Good, Magic, Moon, Darkness. Favoured weapon - I don't know. What would these clerics typically wield? Something easily concealed/disguised, I expect, but what? A dagger? Trifnei: Aha! The elven pantheon shows its nasty side at last! :devil: The idea of the moon goddess having two faces is something I've not come across, and it looks quite good. I like the subtle Magic reference - 'the moon shines blood red' = Blood Moon ;) . Alignment - Chaotic Evil; Domains - Chaos, Strength, Destruction, Moon (there is a Madness domain, but it's a bit much, unless you want the clerics of Trifnei to be dropping dead when they reach high levels); Favoured weapon - Unarmed attack (or the claws of a ravenous werebeast! :devil: ). Virfilan: Very placid. For the contemplative elf, I expect. Alignment - Neutral (i.e. neutral neutral; no ethical standpoint); Domains - Water, Knowledge, Magic, Rune; Favoured weapon - unarmed weapon (he seems like a monk-type). Weyrain: Rebellious god. Do we really need another god specifically geared towards creativity? Oh well, the concept fits, so as long as there are no more....( ;) ) Alignment - Chaotic Neutral; Domains - Chaos, Air, Travel, Storm; Favoured weapon - spear (any). He strikes me as a 'fighter for the common man' and the spear is certainly a weapon of the common man. Nainrei: A hunter god! Classic elf-style god! Me like! :D Alignment - Chaotic Neutral; Domains - Elf, War, Animal; Favoured weapon - longbow. Pineleia: A sort of motherly matron goddess. She reminds me of the no-nonsense matron in old films :D. Alignment - Neutral Good; Domains - Good, Plant, Healing, Family; Favoured weapon - flail (any). Urugai: Very unusual for an elven pantheon. I expect he's one of the most minor gods, worshipped only by those who are irritated by the generally lax elves. Alignment - Lawful Neutral; Domains - Law, Earth, Tyranny, Planning; Favoured weapon - axe (any) (he seems executioner-like, so it seemed appropriate). Heril: Interesting. I suppose he is worshipped by opportunistic types. Alignment - Chaotic Neutral; Domains - Trickery, Luck, Chaos, Trade; Favoured weapon - dagger (easily concealed until the last moment; a classic weapon for a sneak). Ah, yes, I am currently writing up the rest of the elemental elves, so they should be up soon. And those gods are really good! You must have put lots of effort into all those descriptions, and it really shows! Iyala: Yes, typical dark fairy shenanigans in that corner :D . I like the myth, it fits very well, and the Shalendae are truly embodied by those idiotic deities! As they're the gods of so many things, it'll be difficult to allot domains to their D&D clerics, but provisionally: Orasius: Chaos, Air, War, Animal. Enesyru: Chaos, War, Air, Plant. They're both Chaotic Neutral, and they both have a favoured weapon of the short sword. That would seem to fit. |
| Dream Spinner06-28-03, 12:31 PM | I'm thinking more of a long, pointy (or piercing might be better sounding) weapon for Meria. Like a bow or spear. Something that is shot/thrown. Yeah, I'm thinking spear. |
| WizO_Iyala06-28-03, 08:29 PM | Okay, the last two gods in the Shalendae pantheon. These are the most traditional gods of the six and the only ones that have any really dedicates form of worship among the fairies (worship rather than belief) Tilaya Among the rather selfish fairies there is a small group of selfless followers of the godess Tilaya. These are the dedicated healers of the Shalendae who believe their gifts were bestowed upon them by the goddess. This is a very small group of fairies, the followers break most of the common tendancies of their race, they dedicate themselves to healing and caring for others however they are not limited to a pacifist life and they are not obliged to help members of other races - though they may if they chose. Not all healers are followers of Tilaya but the best are and the cult offers training to talented fairies with stong gifts. They have a greater emphasis on prayers and rituals than the other faiths within the race as they normally form part of the healing process. The other faiths within the race acknowledge the worshipers of Tilaya because they need them but they do not admit that she is a goddess. In other paths, Tilaya is seen as something like the patron saint of healers rather than having any particular powers. And now for the most nasty, bloodthirsty faith in the Shalendae pantheon: Rhue - The god of peace The followers of Rhue are the most obsessive, scary, weird, dark, antisocial, untrustworthy fairies of all. They worship their god with the sort of dedication that leaves you feeling sick to the stomach. Rhue is the god charged with maintaining peace within the Shalendae people but as this goes against the nature of the Shalendae he must be constantly appeased with sacrifices and blood rites or else his followers believe he will simply give up his work and allow the fairies darker sides to go unchecked. The other faiths of the Shalendae stay well clear of Rhue's followers, they don't see him as a true god but would never dare to say that to his followers because they know they'd be likely to meet a bloody end the next night. They see followers of the other gods as little more than unbelievers, while they admit the gods have some powers they see them as weak shadows of Rhue. Rhue is axtually a very ambiguous god, portrayed as both a man and a woman at various times. He/she is normally thought of as an intangible force rather than a physical entity. The cult that follows him is incredibly small - maybe one family line in an entire community - but they observe their rituals with a frightening passion. |
| Dream Spinner06-29-03, 03:55 PM | I like Rhue. I love contradiction and irony. It's wonderful! But for the "bloody end the next night", I'd think more "bloody, public end right then", IMHO. And for Trifnei, I might've overdid her description and made her seem evil. She's not. Just insane. She's also the goddess of strength and power, just so you know. Need a divine boost in strength for your spell/sword? Ask Trifnei. Beware, though. Her boons are double-edged. For example, "Trifnei, give me great strength and speed!" Answer=Lycanthropy. "Trifnei give me omniscience!" Answer=Casandra's curse (Ultra-powerful, always sure premonitions, but about doom, and you're never believed and have no power to change anything.) |
| WizO_Iyala06-29-03, 06:52 PM | Oh no, not a public end right then. They'd just look at you, turn and stare and watch you walk away laughing at their god. Then, in the middle of the might, you might stir in your sleep, you might think you hear a slight noise, but only for a moment, then you'd drift back into your dreams.... only to wake up tied down on a bloody altar with a knife at your throat and only the knowledge that your death might bring a few months of peace to comfort you :) |
| Bandido06-29-03, 07:37 PM | Dream Spinner: I didn't realise she was the god of strength. Her clerics can have the Strength domain instead of the Evil domain, then. She's staying evilly-aligned, because she could cure her madness if she wanted (with her immense magic power, she could do that much at the very least), but she chooses not to, which is evil, IMO. And also because the evil elves need someone to worship too, and all the other gods are nice. :) Iyala: It all seems so nice at first, with the cute, fluffy goddess Tilaya. All together now: 'Aaaaaahhhhhh.' :D Alignment - Chaotic Good; Domains - Healing, Good, Protection, Chaos; Favoured weapon - sickle (useful for harvesting medical herbs, useful for chopping off septic bits of people's body, and useful for slicing up people who try to interfere :) ). And now the sickening god(dess) Rhue. Lovely. I agree with Dream Spinner; this god(dess) is completely inspired, if extremely worrying. Alignment - Chaotic Evil (were you surprised? No, thought not :D ); Domains - Chaos, Evil, Suffering, Protection (He protects people, and causes suffering, so that seemed to fit); Favoured weapon - kukri. Originally posted by WizO_Iyala Oh no, not a public end right then. They'd just look at you, turn and stare and watch you walk away laughing at their god. Then, in the middle of the might, you might stir in your sleep, you might think you hear a slight noise, but only for a moment, then you'd drift back into your dreams.... only to wake up tied down on a bloody altar with a knife at your throat and only the knowledge that your death might bring a few months of peace to comfort you :) *shudders* Lovely image, that. Just the kind of thing I wanted to read before going to bed. :P |
| Dream Spinner06-29-03, 10:29 PM | Originally posted by WizO_Iyala Oh no, not a public end right then. They'd just look at you, turn and stare and watch you walk away laughing at their god. Then, in the middle of the might, you might stir in your sleep, you might think you hear a slight noise, but only for a moment, then you'd drift back into your dreams.... only to wake up tied down on a bloody altar with a knife at your throat and only the knowledge that your death might bring a few months of peace to comfort you :) Even though the last part is scary. The really scary part would be laughing at the god, and then suddenly, you see the resident fanatic walking past, staring at you. Staring, staring. Eyes perhaps starting to glaze over a little at the prospect of your death. I wouldn't be able to sleep in the first place. And the public end, I was thinking that if they're so fanatic, they'd just go wacko on you first thing. Bandido-I know all the other gods seem really nice, and that's because elves are the incarnations of good. They're the blessed ones. Perfect.... If you noticed, I went into the D&D view of elves as arrogant xenophobics. They wouldn't create evil gods, because the inferior, evil races have created enough of their own evil, blasphemous gods for them. ;) En evil elf? Well, sadism and all that evil stuff is lost on all of the gods, except Trifnei. So, I guess they would worship her. But she only appears like once a month. They'd probably go into the worship of some other race's truly evil god. Oh, just remembered. Orcs! And halfings. And gnomes. Gods for them all. Plus, at least 2 for the humans. Plus, then I'd have to set up a planes thread to explain/work out the planes. And Iyala, I'll make that myth thread now. |
| Dream Spinner06-29-03, 10:44 PM | Oh, I just noticed you finished the stuff for the elven gods. Great!Just making sure you know, Rewuil is not just a god of pride, also of herbs and flowers. I wasn't thinking of magic when I wrote bloodred moonlight. I was thinking of the bloody goddess and lunar eclipses. Hey, I love creativity gods! Plus, the others can't help the elves. Their range don't extend to them. Weyrein reigns over expression because of the sky. It's free and boundless. See? Urugai is there because I figure elves to be split between the free, nature-loving, kind ones that dance and sing and paint, and the cold, xenophobic, arrogant ones that look down at you from their tall thrones in the mighty counsel. Urugai is the god for the first half. (That was intentional. :rolleyes: ) And thanx on the compliment. :blush: I don't do nearly as much as you do. |
| Bandido06-30-03, 10:29 AM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner Bandido-I know all the other gods seem really nice, and that's because elves are the incarnations of good. They're the blessed ones. Perfect.... If you noticed, I went into the D&D view of elves as arrogant xenophobics. They wouldn't create evil gods, because the inferior, evil races have created enough of their own evil, blasphemous gods for them. ;) En evil elf? Well, sadism and all that evil stuff is lost on all of the gods, except Trifnei. So, I guess they would worship her. But she only appears like once a month. They'd probably go into the worship of some other race's truly evil god. Oh, just remembered. Orcs! And halfings. And gnomes. Gods for them all. Plus, at least 2 for the humans. Plus, then I'd have to set up a planes thread to explain/work out the planes. And Iyala, I'll make that myth thread now. I've just realised something - the goddess of madness and sadism, connected with the colour red, who appears once a month...Trifnei, the goddess of PMT! :devil: As for the incarnations of good, aren't they more the incarnations of the elements in this world? Anyway, that doesn't matter that much.... Are we using halflings, orcs, and gnomes? I don't mind orcs and halflings, but I've never like gnomes that much.... Hmmm...maybe we need some new races...I will have to think. But not on this thread, where it will derail everything. |
| Dream Spinner06-30-03, 02:25 PM | Bandido: :nonono: No, elves really think of themselves as incarnations of good. Your elemental elves would be incarnations of the elements, as well as elementals. Kinda obvious, with the elementals. :rolleyes: What I'm trying to figure out is what exactly divides halflings and gnomes. Halflings are tricksters while the gnomes are inventors? |
| WizO_Iyala06-30-03, 08:01 PM | Bandido, if you could see the glare I gave the screen when I read that... on behalf of all women everywhere, shame on you! :bored: ;) I have just red the page on gnomes :) they are someitmes mechanics and fixers of things :) they were the race that suprised me most as I never really hear them talked about as part of D&D. Bandido, to go back to Ku'Shae for a moment, would it e possible for his favoured weapon to be some sort of axe? preferably a big one? I looked in the D&D handbook and all the big axes seemed to be for dwarves but it turns out that I can draw a big axe but I can't draw a sword :\ |
| Dream Spinner06-30-03, 11:49 PM | Let's see, so Orcish gods, I'm thinking a god for each type of weapon. That god also rules over a concept or element. Halfing gods, I don't know. I'm thinking a small pantheon for them. Gnomes, I also don't know. And in case there's any confusion, my :nonono: is for that Trifnei, goddess of PMT comment. To back it up, another :nonono:. And the ":bored: ;)" doesn't back up the shame statement by Iyala, so here: :mad:. :D |
| Bandido07-01-03, 06:09 AM | *feels the glares* Aaaaah! What can I say? I must just know lots of violent women. *lets subject die* Yes, as to Ku'Shae having a favoured weapon of an axe, that's possible, but, as the Shalendae are small, they can only wield up to medium-size weapons. As the War domain becomes pointless if they have a favoured weapon of the dwarven waraxe, the favoured weapon can be the battleaxe. That would negate their Sharp Knives ability, but that's a small price to pay compared to the battleaxe proficiency they will gain. Note that the dwarven waraxe isn't only for use by dwarves; it's just typically used by them. Gnomes are inventors and mechanics. They like gems, small animals (especially those which burrow), and playing practical jokes on people. The stereotypical gnome is an absent-minded, bumbling alchemist. No one talks about gnomes because they're a rarely-used race, and many people don't like them. In D&D, they often end up being used as comic relief. Halflings are adventurous and curious. They often live in mobile settlements so they can travel around. They like getting into trouble, and will make trouble if they're bored. The stereotypical halfling is a cunning yet foolhardy thief. *refrains from making joke about halflings having a small pantheon* A gnomish pantheon would probably have lots of gods connected with inventing, and magic, while a halfling pantheon...oh, that's difficult. Halflings are never easy in this respect, I find. Just think as halflings as small, relatively nice humans with a mischievous streak, and you can't go wrong. I'll try and create some gnome gods. The orc pantheon sounds...odd. Could you show us an example god or two before you do the whole lot of them? I just want to see how it will work to have a god per weapon. |
| Dream Spinner07-01-03, 03:59 PM | Disclaimer: The following are merely examples of possible Orc gods. This does not mean any of them will necessarily be part of the actual pantheon. This does not mean none of the following examples will be part of the actual pantheon. Dream Spinner will not be held responsible for any misconceptions about whether or not any of the following are going to be part of the actual pantheon. The following are property of Dream Spinner. Any use of them without permission from Dream Spinner is punishable by Ycevil. Umwab the Unbreakable Umwab is the waraxe god and reigns over war, bloodshed, and strength. A handsome being by orcish standards, he wields a huge waraxe that is constantly dripping blood. The blood from this waraxe is said to be the substance from which all orcs were born. Huge, reckless, and violent, Umwab is known for his battlecries, which sends powerful shockwaves through the cosmos, creating disastrous natural phenomena, such as earthquakes and tornadoes. Rekpon the Devious Rekpon is the bow god of trickery, lies, and sorcery. A cowardly god, he would rather use his bow and magic to defeat his opponent from afar than face him in honourable combat. Rekpon is thin and willowy and plots endlessly in his wooded hiding places. |
| WizO_Iyala07-01-03, 07:50 PM | Originally posted by Bandido Yes, as to Ku'Shae having a favoured weapon of an axe, that's possible, but, as the Shalendae are small, they can only wield up to medium-size weapons. As the War domain becomes pointless if they have a favoured weapon of the dwarven waraxe, the favoured weapon can be the battleaxe. That would negate their Sharp Knives ability, but that's a small price to pay compared to the battleaxe proficiency they will gain. Note that the dwarven waraxe isn't only for use by dwarves; it's just typically used by them. Ummmmm.... okay, please ignore my comment :) I will read more of the book before I start trying to meddle in stuff I really don't understand. After all, I'm only up to bards :) |
| Bandido07-02-03, 09:45 AM | Originally posted by WizO_Iyala Ummmmm.... okay, please ignore my comment :) I will read more of the book before I start trying to meddle in stuff I really don't understand. After all, I'm only up to bards :) No, don't be silly :) . You can meddle all you like with your gods. You wanted the favoured weapon to be a kind of axe, so it's a kind of axe. I was just showing you the reasoning by which I arrived at what type of axe I think would be best for Ku'Shae's clerics to get as a favoured weapon. Dream Spinner: I was a bit dubious at first, but you've convinced me. I like those gods. :) I can see Rekpon's pointy ears from here. :D Oh yeah, his worshippers are going to be so unpopular amongst the other orcs. |
| Dream Spinner07-02-03, 02:52 PM | Originally posted by Bandido Dream Spinner: I was a bit dubious at first, but you've convinced me. I like those gods. :) I can see Rekpon's pointy ears from here. :D Oh yeah, his worshippers are going to be so unpopular amongst the other orcs. I knew you would be able to catch on. I believe elves are the orcs' natural enemy? Yeah, so this fits. I'm glad you like it. I'll work on it. |
| WizO_Iyala07-02-03, 08:26 PM | Yeah but your reasoning shows me that I don't know what I'm talking about, Bandido :) We'll stick with the sword for now I think. Drawing the damned god is turning out to be the hard part so the weapon is the least of my worries :) |
| nick01200007-03-03, 07:05 AM | i have a question. if the general population knows that the handiwork of a certain extinct race is superior to anything they make, does that make those items stronger? |
| Dream Spinner07-03-03, 01:05 PM | No, because they know it. That means it already is stronger. But if the items aren't neccessarily as strong as most people believe, and people put their faith in them (believing that that certain sword can protect them from an uber-demon, even though it really couldn't), the item may be bolstered a bit. But this is pretty hard (may be impossible) for D&D to keep track, so for D&D games, this part is ignored. Besides, you'd need a lot of people to believe in the item for it to have an effect like that. Like nations-caliber number of people. (If you do figure out a balanced way to do this, new properties/damage isn't magical. It's divine.) |
| nick01200007-04-03, 11:08 PM | also, if King Joe Blow says, "I am a god! Worship me!", does he become a deity? |
| Dream Spinner07-05-03, 12:28 AM | No, this was addressed before. He has to be completely believed to be a god by a lot of people. Like a big empire or two. Go back to the 2 posts before my Elven gods post. They address Prophet of Chaos' question which is just like yours. |
| WizO_Iyala07-05-03, 07:48 PM | Although the really interesting possibility is if a person really did start being believed in by several empires and began to manifest god-like powers - whether they liked it or not. That could make for some very interesting stories :) |
| Bandido07-05-03, 09:51 PM | Originally posted by WizO_Iyala Although the really interesting possibility is if a person really did start being believed in by several empires and began to manifest god-like powers - whether they liked it or not. That could make for some very interesting stories :) 'He's not the Messiah; he's a very naughty boy!' :D Although what exactly someone could do to be worshipped unwillingly by thousands I can't imagine. :confused: It might be more often the case that people who seek to deify themselves don't like the result - having their existence depend entirely on others. |
| nick01200007-05-03, 10:30 PM | save the planet? |
| Dream Spinner07-05-03, 11:44 PM | What? :confused: |
| Bandido07-09-03, 07:34 AM | Originally posted by nick012000 save the planet? Yeah, I suppose that's possible. |
| Leaves07-09-03, 02:57 PM | Originally posted by WizO_Iyala Although the really interesting possibility is if a person really did start being believed in by several empires and began to manifest god-like powers - whether they liked it or not. That could make for some very interesting stories :) I could see this happening. Suppose a prophesy states that a child born on a certain date in a certain place is going to have god-like powers. If the prophesy is very popular, I suppose the child would be born a god. |
| WizO_Iyala07-09-03, 06:53 PM | Or just rumors, bardic tales and gossip, they might not even know what was going on until they'd become a god. I know it might sound farfetched but what I have in mind is the sort of hero worship that film stars and sports stars get. Now imagining that sort of adoration directed at one person, helped along by a few bards telling stories of miraculous acts of heroism and good deeds and you might end up with a god on your hands by accident :D |
| nick01200007-09-03, 09:27 PM | there is rules for becoming a god in Deities & Demigods, i'll try to see if i get the rules off the DnD forums. |
| Dream Spinner07-09-03, 09:51 PM | I liked the prophecized birth thing. The child might not be a god right off, but may be a demigod, growing into an actual god as she accomplishes amazing feats. Iyala: With the hero worship, the person would slowly increase in strength until finally getting divine rank 0 in D&D terms. From there, he'd increase in power exponentially from now on for he has true divine power to back up the rumours. Eventually, he settles onto a nice average divine rank. He won't get very high because the other gods have been worshiped for centuries, if not millenia already. When do we start making human empires and stuff? I need to have a basic concept about the human kingdoms to start creating the human pantheon(s). |
| Leaves07-09-03, 11:05 PM | Originally posted by nick012000 there is rules for becoming a god in Deities & Demigods, i'll try to see if i get the rules off the DnD forums. I might have saved you some time. I have Deities and Demigods. There are no rules for becoming a god, just a few vague suggestions. Unless you are refering to an old edition. |
| nick01200007-10-03, 03:55 AM | ah. i though there was. i've already started a thread on the Deities and Demigods board, so *shrug*. |
| Bandido07-10-03, 07:40 AM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner When do we start making human empires and stuff? I need to have a basic concept about the human kingdoms to start creating the human pantheon(s). Whenever you like. I've tried to draw a map on autorealm for a surface kingdom, but it's not being very cooperative. :mad: |
| Dream Spinner07-10-03, 02:32 PM | I have a question: Do Orcs have Monks? No, right? Cuz Monks are all disciplined (as in lawful) and stuff. So, the god I was thinking about doesn't fit in there.... I guess humans. They'd accept pretty much any god. Oh, and on Urugai (I can't seem to un-remember that name. I don't know where I got it from, but it's just so weird.), we could have it originally elven, but then gnomes "borrowed" him, so he is now both a gnomish and elvish god, stronger with the gnomes. He'd have a really big area where he has power, and he'd have 2 home-temples. I'm thinking he'll change shape a little to fit with the gnomish thinking as he nears gnome land and back to the elven shape as he nears elf land. |
| Bandido07-10-03, 03:50 PM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner I have a question: Do Orcs have Monks? No, right? Cuz Monks are all disciplined (as in lawful) and stuff. So, the god I was thinking about doesn't fit in there.... I guess humans. They'd accept pretty much any god. Orcs don't typically have monks, but they can have them if you want. Just because most orcs don't have that amount of discipline doesn't mean all won't, and it's possible there could be a subculture of disciplined orc monks. Originally posted by Dream Spinner Oh, and on Urugai (I can't seem to un-remember that name. I don't know where I got it from, but it's just so weird.), we could have it originally elven, but then gnomes "borrowed" him, so he is now both a gnomish and elvish god, stronger with the gnomes. He'd have a really big area where he has power, and he'd have 2 home-temples. I'm thinking he'll change shape a little to fit with the gnomish thinking as he nears gnome land and back to the elven shape as he nears elf land. Hey! Stop reading my mind and stealing my ideas! :P |
| Dream Spinner07-11-03, 01:57 PM | Well, the gnomish thing was from somebody, but I wanted to keep Urugai at least partially elvish, so I put the 2 together. I mean... MWHAHAHAHAHA! Your thought are not safe from me, wherever you may be! MWHAHAHAHAHAHA! (Too bad there's no smiley you see grinning at you, and then his head tilts back and starts cackling. That would be so cool!) |
| Dream Spinner08-11-03, 02:17 PM | I know I said I would make the Orcish gods a long time ago, but...I have no real reason. :blush: I still haven't come up with anymore than the ones I've already made, but here are the two before, elaborated: Umwab the Unbreakable Umwab is the waraxe god and reigns over war, bloodshed, and strength. A handsome being by orcish standards, he wields a huge waraxe that is constantly dripping blood. The blood from this waraxe is said to be the substance from which all orcs were born. Huge, reckless, and violent, Umwab is known for his battlecries, which sends powerful shockwaves through the cosmos, creating disastrous natural phenomena, such as earthquakes and tornadoes. Umwab's temples tend to be crude buildings, usually surrounded with the graves of the bravest of soldiers. Weapons of every type, especially waraxes, can often be found in Umwab's temples, either in storage or on display. Clerics of Umwab do not follow any special code. They tend to have traits of barbarians and are less capable at magic. They do carry the mark of Umwab and wherever they go, Umwab's power follows. Therefore, they are great at boosting morale in battles and their battlecries often invoke bloodlust that turn cowards into savage warriors. In war, clerics of Umwab carry a small portable "temple", which is usually nothing more than a tented altar, into camps and sometimes even onto battlefields. Rekpon the Devious Rekpon is the bow god of trickery, lies, and sorcery. A cowardly god, he would rather use his bow and magic to defeat his opponent from afar than face him in honourable combat. Rekpon is thin and willowy and plots endlessly in his wooded hiding places. Rekpon's temples are few and far between. They often also serve as a place for learning and training in the art of magic. Though beautiful (partially because of illusion) at first, other orcs tend to vandalize these temples. As magic easily repairs this and illusion covers up anything it can't repair, Rekpon and his clerics usually don't retaliate. This is probably also because of their cowardly nature. Rekpon's clerics are skilled at the bow and magic, but are often insulted, taunted, or even attacked by other orcs, especially clerics of Umwab. Despite the lack of retaliatian at first, Rekpon's clerics know how to take their revenge well. |
| Dream Spinner08-12-03, 01:02 AM | Kentdho the Cruel Kentdho is the whip god. He rules tyranny, domination, punishment, and torture and is the patron of conquerers, torturers, executioners, and sadists. Kentdho has a powerful body, and has only one eye. This one eye is completely crimson and is practically blind and unable to see color. The one thing this eye can spot for sure is pain in any form. This eye can find pain through anything. The whip he carries seems to be alive and acts as something like a seeing-eye dog for Kentdho. Kentdho's temples often consists of a small ground level and many underground dungeons, filled with all sorts of torture devices. These dungeons are used for both legitamite purposes, and to serve the sadistic whims of Kentdho's clerics. These clerics tend to be slender compared to the rest of the orcish population, but their fingers are quick to find both hidden weapons, usually some kind of whip, and the most painful parts of their victims' bodies. |
| nick01200008-12-03, 03:35 AM | I Kentdho female, and wear next to useless skimpy leather armor? |
| Dream Spinner08-12-03, 10:12 AM | Originally posted by nick012000 I Kentdho female, and wear next to useless skimpy leather armor? :nonono: :bored: She would be an orc, so it wouldn't be very attractive. |
| Dream Spinner08-12-03, 10:35 AM | See, I can't think of any more weapons. And any I do think of, I can't figure out domains to connect to them. I do have a dagger god, but I've already got one atypical orc god, and the dagger one I've got is a stealth, shadows, secrets kind of god. |
| Bandido08-13-03, 10:58 AM | I like the whip god. The description was unnerving, which I expect was the intention. Is he meant to be slender and lithe like his Priests are? I think that would fit better than having him extremely bulky like he seems to be now. Other orc gods....how about a combined farming/death god? He could represent the flail, and his main function could be 'separating the wheat from the chaff' in both literal and figurative senses.* Or a god of the spear, who is a stealthy hunter? Or a god of the hammer, who is not only a god of weaponcraft, but also of forging the orcs themselves into a weapon. His priests could be big into self-improvement, and battle tactics. *Plants and death has been done before...Deamondus(sp) could be both a dwarven and an orcish god! :devil: |
| Dream Spinner08-15-03, 04:32 AM | Yeah, Kentdho is a really muscley god. Ooh, I like the flail one. I guess orcs and dwarves can share the plant/destruction god, changing the connection from plant mechanical weathering to the flail, altering it to farming/death. What can you tell me about orcish society? Like scattered barbarian tribes? Do orcs eat veggies and fruits? If so, do they grow them or gather them? I also want to avoid elemental gods. We have the following: Waraxe: War, bloodshed Bow/Magic: Deception, magic Whip: Pain, domination Flail: Farming, death Warhammer: Weaponcraft, strength, ? Spear: Sport, hunting, dueling I modified the spear, taking out the stealth and adding sport and dueling. Sport in that hunting is a sport and dueling in that...I got it from Helen of Troy on USA (I think), where Paris and Menelaus duels with javelins (which is nowhere in the actual story, FYI). There's also the sword. Do orcs have a sense of honor? Probably no, right? The closest thing would be that they'd defend their own reputations as being big and strong. I don't want to go and figure out a god for each and every weapon. I'll just stick with the ones above for now. Can you think of any more domains in the orcish society for gods to rule over? |
| Leaves08-15-03, 04:41 PM | The expanded orcish pantheon is great. I like Rekpon, especially the idea of associating archery with cowardice. Not something that would have occured to me, I'm probably too accustomed to elven archers, and you never would call them cowards! I like the flail/farming god. Such as it is for orcs, I would also put Healing in there, perhaps leaning more towards herbalism than toward tradition healing. I don't think healing ought to be a major part of the orcish culture, so a small place within a greater portfolio suits. You could add "Salvage" to the Warhammer/weaponcraft god, since a lot of orc arms are probably stripped from their enemies, then repaired. I like the spear/hunting/dueling concept, but dueling and hunting seem to be opposites: when hunting, you have mismatched opponents (pitting your wits against a physically superior foe), while in dueling you have equally matched opponents (same weapon, level playing field). But not having stealth is good, since that concept seems to be well covered by Rekpon. As for swords: they might just be considered a inferior weapon by orcs. Perhaps each god already listed also has an associated sword: axe - scimitar, hammer - greatsword, bow - dagger, spear - longsword, whip - rapier. (or something like that) When orcs capture swords, they dedicate them to one of the orcish weapon gods, and inscribe a symbol on the blade to signify that while it looks like a greatsword, spiritually it's a hammer. |
| Dream Spinner08-16-03, 02:08 PM | Associating archery with cowardice isn't something new. The Ancient Greeks believed that. Toxotes (the "e" is pronounced "-ay", there's no silent e) were considered secondary and less honorable and courageous than hoplites. That's a good idea with the swords. A weapon that's spiritually some other weapon. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-16-03, 03:53 PM | Belrisk the Livereater Belrisk is the Spear God he rules the domains of sport , hunting , dueling , fertility and half-orcs. He is the most handsome of the the gods... and the most tempting. The spear he weilds is a meddely of all wepons being part of the staff , the knife , and the sword. and so is he part hunter , part tempter , and part betrayer. He is also the most likly to take on mortal coil often appearing as a handsome young elf or unicorn to the unsuspecting maiden. To 'love' and then kill her. Some of is affairs have been know to last as long as a month. Belrisks temples are places of compatition , lovemaking , and 'honorable' fighting. There is no set form to his temples but they often look like arenas or jousting grounds. |
| nick01200008-17-03, 05:59 AM | Why would an orc god appear as a human male? just wondering. BTW, if the Athar from Planesape ever got here, they'de have a field day. |
| Leaves08-17-03, 04:41 PM | Which one appears as a human male? :confused: I like Belrisk the Livereater. Very disturbing. :twitch: If he goes cavorting with human maidens, he could be the patron god of half-orcs, too. I see hunting fitting into the mix better now. I'm not so sure about the "spear is a mix of many weapons" part. If the orcs have weapon gods, it seems to me that the weapons would be considered kindof fundamental, holy objects, and saying one is a combination of parts doesn't seems right. On the other hand, if Belrisk is the half-orc god, having a "mixed-breed" weapon would be perfectly natural. Just to be clear, all the orc gods are male? No women? I don't think there's anything wrong with having only male gods, I just wanted to make sure. |
| Dream Spinner08-17-03, 09:57 PM | What I don't get is why is he the god of fertility? And why is he manipulative (tempting, traitorous)? Wouldn't an orc god loathe to take on an elven form? Besides that, okay. No, I wasn't thinking of any goddesses. I was thinking of the orcs as a masculine, testosterone-driven, alchoholic, violent race. Is that right? Valkamma the Rider Valkamma is the flail god of farming and death. Valkamma wears brightly shining golden armor and rides a powerful gray stallion. He carries his favored weapon, the flail, and also usually keeps a sword at his side. He is often accompanied by three horse-riding orcs in silver armor and are carrying flails as well. The four ride in the sky, their images found in clouds or the stars as they go. In war, Valkamma and his riders come down from the heavens to come to those who die in battle and carry away the souls of the courageous orcs to paradise, where they may fight all day and drink all night, their wounds healing instantaneously. In smaller fights, only one of Valkamma's rider will come down to take away the souls of orcs that die fighting. Where Valkamma's stallion's feet has pounded at the dirt, richness returns to the ground, making it very fertile and ready to be farmed on. Valkamma is thus the sign of both glorious death and fresh life. The temples to Valkamma are glorious, made with grace and beauty not found in daily orcish life. Though the bodies of slain soldiers may be found at Umwab's temple, the souls of the soldiers may be contacted here. Valkamma's clerics are mighty individuals and teach bravery and to fear not the coming of Valkamma, but Valkamma never coming. I based this on the Norse mythology. Die in battle, yay! You get carried off to Valhalla by a Valkyrie where you spend your afterlife living in a sort of Norse party which may resemble a frat one. Die sick or old, down to Hel's realm you go. |
| Dream Spinner08-18-03, 02:38 PM | Patnum the Fist Patnum is the warhammer god of strength and weapons and is a huge figure, larger than all the other orcish gods. He wields a huge warhammer whose head is constantly blazing. The strike of his hammer doesn't destroy though, but restores health, strength, and speed. As a strength god, he is limitless in that. He can always become stronger as the situation calls for it. Though Patnum isn't the current leader of the gods, he is the one who forged both the gods and the orcs into being. Because the orcs were forged from Patnum's own hammer, they are the strongest of races and are the mightiest in battle. Patnum's temples are simple structures, but highly honored and very sturdy, like the god himself. Clerics of Patnum are often learned in forging weapons and casting spells for increasing strength. NOTE: Orcs existed before Patnum in reality. Also, the "strongest of races and are the mightiest battle" is from an orcish POV. |
| Leaves08-18-03, 04:08 PM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner What I don't get is why is he the god of fertility? And why is he manipulative (tempting, traitorous)? Wouldn't an orc god loathe to take on an elven form? Besides that, okay. I figure it's all about dominance. Hunting is about dominating and subjugating the wilderness and the prey. Duels are about humiliating and subjugating the foe, instead of merely killing him. And orcish marriage is about the male intimidating and controling his woman. That, and the spear bears a certain resemblence to a certain male organ. No, I wasn't thinking of any goddesses. I was thinking of the orcs as a masculine, testosterone-driven, alchoholic, violent race. Is that right? Yes. Right on the money. Valkamma the Rider Very cool. I like the description of the temples the most. Ignore what I said earlier about healing fitting into Valkamma's portfolio. I think it would fit much, much better for Patnum, both the reforging and self-improvement aspects. |
| Dream Spinner08-18-03, 11:47 PM | Originally posted by Leaves I figure it's all about dominance. Hunting is about dominating and subjugating the wilderness and the prey. Duels are about humiliating and subjugating the foe, instead of merely killing him. And orcish marriage is about the male intimidating and controling his woman. That, and the spear bears a certain resemblence to a certain male organ. Domination is really Kentdho's domain, but oh, well. I see now. That's an orcish marraige? ::Blink:: See new god below. And may I say, "Ew."? Lantehe the Faith Lantehe is the only orcish goddess. She wields no physical weapon, but the weapon of many. She has the looks of a simple orcish woman, but feels as if her skin was actually rose petals and her voice is as of angels. She is the strength of women. The youngest of the more prominent gods, Lantehe was born from the centuries of pain and abuse inflicted onto the orcish women. But as the strength of the women is hidden from their husbands and fellow tribesmen, Lantehe is hidden from most other gods, and all of the other orcish ones. Lantehe's coming has spread new hope. She believed in all the orcish women as they believed in her; she was their shoulder to cry upon, their hand to pull them back up, their spine to stay strong as the blows come. Her coming also meant that the orcish women did not have to fall into Rekpon's grasp at death, for they couldn't die a glorious death at battle and be carried off by Valkamma to paradise. Instead, at death, the souls of orcish women were lead to Latehe's own plane, a haven. Lantehe has no temples and no clerics, to remain hidden from the male gods. The only signs of her existence in the mortal world are the whispered prayers to her and hidden tattoos of her symbol (a female orc hand reaching out). Despite this, she has followers. The entire female orc population, and perhaps a few male orcs kind to women and subjected to abuse from other males like women are. What do you think? The women are still orcs, they are strong and brave. The male population shouldn't be able to take all that away. I was also thinking about an Amazon-like tribe of orcs, but with one difference: the males wouldn't be subjected to abuse from the women. That would be hypocritical of Lantehe. |
| Leaves08-19-03, 09:20 PM | the Faith: I like this idea, but I would really prefer that it not be so all-pervasive. First off, I think there are probably a significant portion of orcish women who are content to worship the male orc gods. I can even see sisterhoods dedicated to the gods, something like the status of nuns in the Catholic church, also a very male-oriented tradition. Second, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of female orcish warriors. Like you said, female orcs are still orcs. Valkamma probably takes a fair number of female souls, too. (It would be interesting, if, in orc mythology, women who die on the battlefield are re-cast as men in paradise. Maybe their souls reforged by Patnum.) Finally, um, I kindof had a vague idea of writting up some non-orcish goddesses, who have been adopted as patrons by orcish women frustrated by the prevailing religious order. That still okay? |
| Dream Spinner08-19-03, 10:12 PM | I had a small similar thought. A goddess secretly worshipped by all women seemed kind of, yeah. Battered Wife's Syndrome. Sorry, that was bouncing around in my head while I was reading your post and writing this. I don't know why or what I wanna do with it. And of course it's okay. I still like the idea of a god or goddess secretly worshipped world wide. A very powerful god hidden from all others. Could work for a story. He or she decides to come out into the open with his or her huge masses of worshippers and a) break away and begin their own empire or b) try and conquer the world. A and B could have the same result if the A-nation became sort of a paradise and people flocked there and abandoned their old gods to worship this new perfect one. Slowly, all the other gods wither into tiny husks of their former selves. If people keep their knowledge of the old gods, they will stay alive, but with no actual worshippers, be nothing but mortals that are stronger and harder to kill than normal. You can make a campaign out of this: these ex-gods are now the players. All you need to do is make it possible to take back the power. Perhaps the god isn't all he says he is. Maybe he ate people. Reveal his true self. I should stop now. I'm drifting again. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-20-03, 04:28 PM | Okay I added that Belrisk was also the god of halforcs. thanks Leaves. The Orcish Pantheon nearly complete let us finish and turn to another : the Gnomes |
| Leaves08-23-03, 07:16 AM | Recap: Umwab the Unbreakable - waraxe, war and strength Rekpon the Devious - bow, trickery and sorcery Kentdho the Cruel - whip, domination and torture Belrisk the Livereater - spear, sport and fertility (half-orcs) Valkamma the Rider - flail, farming and death Patnum the Fist - warhammer, weaponcraft and strength Lantehe the Faith - orcish women It just occured to me that maybe there is a longstanding rivalry and hatred between Belrisk and Kentdho, including deadly competition between their clerics. Clerics of Kendho are especially hostile to half-orcs because of the association with Belrisk. Clerics devoted to either god always end up supporting opposite sides in orcish wars, and Belrisk's clerics have even shown up aiding human kingdoms against Kendho-worshipping orcs. One last thing before we move on: is there going to be any sort of relationship between the orc gods, like some of the Ancient Greek or Egyptian gods were related to each other? I think it would be a simple and logical explanation that they are all brothers, but it could be more complicated (think of the Greek myth where Athena sprang out of Zeus's head). Brainstorm: Patnum and Umwab were brothers. They came out of darkness into a great bright world, and prepared to conquer it. Patnum decided there needed to be more orcs, whole armies of orcs, and he killed Umwab. He forged the other gods and the orcish race out of Umwab's body, because it was the strongest material in all the world. Rekpon was formed of the brain, and he was clever and devious. Valkamma was forged of the heart, closest to the center, which was his key to every orc's soul. Belrisk was forged of the stomach, with an endless appetite for good things. Kentdho was forged of the liver, and he became always bitter, full of bile. Umwab miraculously survived the process whole. Nothing would ever harm him again. He became the warlord, to lead the orcish armies in subduing the world. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-23-03, 04:13 PM | Recap: Umwab the Unbreakable - waraxe, war and strength Rekpon the Devious - bow, trickery and sorcery Kentdho the Cruel - whip, domination and torture Belrisk the Livereater - spear, sport and fertility (half-orcs) Valkamma the Rider - flail, farming and death Patnum the Fist - warhammer, weaponcraft and strength Lantehe the Faith - orcish wome It just occured to me that maybe there is a longstanding rivalry and hatred between Belrisk and Kentdho, including deadly competition between their clerics. Clerics of Kendho are especially hostile to half-orcs because of the association with Belrisk. Clerics devoted to either god always end up supporting opposite sides in orcish wars, and Belrisk's clerics have even shown up aiding human kingdoms against Kendho-worshipping orcs. ---------------------------------------- Sounds probable ---------------------------------------- One last thing before we move on: is there going to be any sort of relationship between the orc gods, like some of the Ancient Greek or Egyptian gods were related to each other? I think it would be a simple and logical explanation that they are all brothers, but it could be more complicated (think of the Greek myth where Athena sprang out of Zeus's head). ---------------------------------- Yes I had already assumed that -------------------------------------- In next post I will give my revised version of relations ( I think Leaves had good ideas but they echoed the Norse mythos a bit strongly) |
| Obsidianjaerc08-23-03, 04:25 PM | QOUTE Brainstorm: Patnum and Umwab were brothers. They came out of darkness into a great bright world, and prepared to conquer it. Patnum decided there needed to be more orcs, whole armies of orcs, and he killed Umwab. He forged the other gods and the orcish race out of Umwab's body, because it was the strongest material in all the world. Rekpon was formed of the brain, and he was clever and devious. Valkamma was forged of the heart, closest to the center, which was his key to every orc's soul. Belrisk was forged of the stomach, with an endless appetite for good things. Kentdho was forged of the liver, and he became always bitter, full of bile. Umwab miraculously survived the process whole. Nothing would ever harm him again. He became the warlord, to lead the orcish armies in subduing the world ------------------------------------------------------------ My Version PART I ( This is in prose as a storyteller not as a brainstormer) Pantum and Unwab were brothers and came from a diffrent world full of darkness and despair into a great bright world ready for the conquering. Pantum thought that he should rule all and needed great armies of orcs to accomplish this.So he resolved to kill Umwab Umwab meinwhile was fashioning a Waraxe , for he head of Pantums plans from Pantums own servant The Giant Boar of Fire who desired a new master , though that is saga for elsewhere. Now you must remember that when they came there was one big contient was the World and that now there are many small contienents that are the World. Pantum came to his brother and spoke to him of power and conquest of slaves and orcs feinging freindship as they drank of orcish ale. When it seemed to Pantum that Umwab was drunk he took up his Hammer to smite him , and then Umwab flung off his cloak. Revealing that in his hand was The Waraxe and strapped to his chest was a flagon that contained all he had "drunk". They came together and fought like nothing seen before or since. They sundered mountains and burned forests , flung at each other oceans and choked on clouds. The land itself was torn into many parts as it is today. When the battle had ended there stode only one : Pantum the Fist. |
| Dream Spinner08-23-03, 06:28 PM | Originally posted by Obsidianjaerc In next post I will give my revised version of relations ( I think Leaves had good ideas but they echoed the Norse mythos a bit strongly) What's wrong with that? Valkamma is obviously based on Norse mythology. Even his name. Valhalla was the hall where the dead Norse warriors were brought to by the Valkyries. Valhalla, Valkamma. |
| Obsidianjaerc08-23-03, 08:50 PM | Nothing wrong with it just thought we were ring to be distinct. I mean it is okay if certain gods , and myths are based on original ones just so that they dont look to similar. BTW I am pretty much sticking to Leaves` mythos I am just clarify and adding a few details. If there is anything any of you disagree with please let me know. Also Leaves` since I am using your story as a base I would especially apprieciat help from you. I have lots of:bow: up my sleeve.http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/jaercangel.txt |
| Obsidianjaerc08-24-03, 01:16 PM | My Version PART II ( This is in prose as a storyteller not as a brainstormer) He stood above Umwabs body and laughed knowing that he alone would by orcs be called Allfather and would conquer the world. Upon the hill where he smote Umwabs ruin a grat Thought came to him and whispered ; build from the body of Umwab it the strongest you will find. And so thinking his truimph complete and his time to work due he flung Umwabs body about himself like a cloak and ran to the valley below. Pantum took the Hammer and set about forging his leiutenents.First in the brain he forged Repkon and he bean life as a Trickster and User of Magik though that is another story. Then he went to the heart and out of it forged Valkamma the Most Pure. Then on to the stomach he went and pulled forth Belrisk who was not of his making.Belrisk immediatly called his siblings to him for a feast as he had a great appite for that which is good having lived in the stomach. But that too is a diffrent tale.Finally he came to the liver and completed the unfinished Kentdho who had always feasted upon bile and has ever been the most bitter. to be concluded |
| Leaves08-24-03, 03:52 PM | Interesting expantion of the mythos. The second part is especially good. I have some suggestions for part I: First, if Umwab "he heard of pantums plans" then Patnum must have been talking to someone? I think it would be good if Patnum had a legendary companion of some sort, like an animal or a cohort. Possibilities: a fire-creature seems fitting for a weaponsmith god, maybe a hellcat, a phoenix, a simple fire-elemental; A powerful creature, like a giant bear or boar. Or both: giant fire-bear! I like that, hmmm. Second, the part about the beginning of the battle is unclear, could use some polishing. I think it may be just this part: " . . . then Pantum flung from himself his cloak. There in his hand was The Waraxe and by his chest was a flagon that contained all he had "drank"." Did you maybe mean Umwab flung off his cloak? In reality, the legend probably mentions specific places that were created by the battle, but since we have no map yet, that will have to wait for later. I am curious to see how you deal with Umwab coming back to life. Eagerly awaiting the next installment. http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/leafsmile.txt |
| Obsidianjaerc08-24-03, 06:35 PM | Thanks for the help I will edit it abit.http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/jaerc.txt |
| Obsidianjaerc10-25-03, 10:57 PM | Oh man I forgot to finish the orcish mythos so I will recap and write the third and fianl part now. Pantum and Unwab were brothers and came from a diffrent world full of darkness and despair into a great bright world ready for the conquering. Pantum thought that he should rule all and needed great armies of orcs to accomplish this.So he resolved to kill Umwab Umwab meinwhile was fashioning a Waraxe , for he head of Pantums plans from Pantums own servant , The Giant Boar of Fire who desired a new master , though that is saga for elsewhere. Now you must remember that when they came there was one big contient was the World and that now there are many small contienents that are the World. Pantum came to his brother and spoke to him of power and conquest of slaves and orcs feinging freindship as they drank of orcish ale. When it seemed to Pantum that Umwab was drunk he took up his Hammer to smite him , and then Umwab flung off his cloak. Revealing that in his hand was The Waraxe and strapped to his chest was a flagon that contained all he had "drunk". They came together and fought like nothing seen before or since. They sundered mountains and burned forests , flung at each other oceans and choked on clouds. The land itself was torn into many parts as it is today. When the battle had ended there stode only one : Pantum the Fist. He stood above Umwabs body and laughed knowing that he alone would by orcs be called Allfather and would conquer the world. Upon the hill where he smote Umwabs ruin a great Thought came to him and whispered ; build from the body of Umwab it the strongest you will find. And so thinking his truimph complete and his time to work due he flung Umwabs body about himself like a cloak and ran to the valley below. Pantum took the Hammer and set about forging his leiutenents.First in the brain he forged Repkon and he began life as a Trickster and User of Magic though that is another story. Then he went to the heart and out of it forged Valkamma the Most Pure. Then on to the stomach he went and pulled forth Belrisk who was not of his making. Belrisk immediatly called his siblings to him for a feast as he had a great appite for that which is good having lived in the stomach. But that too is a diffrent tale.Finally he came to the liver and completed the unfinished Kentdho who had always feasted upon bile and has ever been the most bitter. Now Pantum looked upon the feast and saw that Belrisk and Kentdho were engaged in a grand competition ; fighting with wepons and fists and flinging about the food. Pantum thought this was good and left the younger gods to go destroy his unfaithfull servant the Giant Boar of Fire. He journeyed long through forests which he chopped , and moutains which he smote and oceans which he drank and met all manor of creatures which he slew and some that he could not. The full account of his travels is by far longer than this story which nears its completition. At last Pantum the Fist came to the great cave or the Fire Boar and ventured inside looking about for its fabled inhabitant. When at last he came to the final chamber , deep within the earth he saw The Giant Fire Boar standing there and called to him using his true name : " Oh decietful Rikkupo , you should have ran when you had the chance , for now my traitorus servant you will die by my hand". Rikkupo responded loudly saying " No onger am I your creature , so I am not a traitor and will not die." He then turned himself into molten lava and sank into the rocks " I am free now". Well Pantum was none to happy and roared his anger , shaking the cave until it fell upon him. Some time after Pantum awoke back with his brethren and discovered that Repkon had conjured him back with magic. This greatly angered him , as he was certain he could have escaped unaided and he turned upon Repkon and rose to slay him. It was that day Repkon fled and though he was later reconciled for his brave actions that is a tale for another night. Far away under the earth Rikkupo fled and as he did so parts of his Trueform broke away and impregnated many earth and fire spirits. Finaly he reached the dead ,shattered body of Umwab and pounced upon him bleeding his life energy into his friend and master. At last Rikkupo colapsed on Umwab. Time passed and suddenly Umwab reawoke and found the last flickering embers of Rikkupo and gathered them to himself , instilling them with new power and sending Rikkupo flying away , truely free. Umwab had survived death itself , and now nothing would ever harm him again. He was Umwab the unbreakable. Sonn he returned to find Pantum and found the others as well , but the story of his return and eventual return to power is diffrent from this now concluded tale. I will only say that He became the warlord, to lead the orcish armies in subduing the world. The end. Any questions , comment or critiscims? Please post them and when we have finished I will pos tthe whole histroy on another thread. |
| Dream Spinner11-17-03, 03:13 PM | Looks good. For the gnomish gods, I was thinking 5 gods. The Need, the Inspiration, the Plan, the Work, and the Detail. 5 very basic "parts" of invention. The need for something. The inspiration for that something. The plan you follow to create it. The actual work to create it. And the detail you put into it. =\ The last one is shaky. Here's an example: Bruhzna Treassa the Need Bruhzna is the ever-present need within each person. Though this does cover the need to eat, drink, and breathe, Bruhzna is mainly a god of the need for change and innovation, the need to better both oneself and the things around oneself. He is the need to make the tower even taller, the need to make the hole deeper, the need to push a little more, the need to read one more page. Bruhzna's image is that of a handsome and rich gnome from afar, but often fades as one draws closer until he appears as nothing but gnome-shaped mist teasing mortals as perfection teases those he protects above all. Like all other gnomish gods, he favors inventors, but he also favors the compulsive, the perfectionists, and the most curious of people. Worship of him comes from nights spent twisting and turning in bed worrying, the insane studying of the compulsively perfect student, the maniacal look and cries of those denied what they need. Ugh, I can't help doing all that glorifying and stuff. :P The elven god Urugai is the Plan for the gnomes, the "laws" you follow in creating. EDIT: Forgot to explain what I meant in the last line there. I was thinking, for gnomes, that they didn't worship through praying and such. Instead, work, creation, everyday things is their form of worship. There is too much work to do to take time to kneel in front of a statue and thanking the gods, especially when they would want you to go and create and build. |
| Dream Spinner11-30-03, 01:28 PM | ...nobody's going to say anything? Or has the recharge failed miserably? |
| nick01200011-30-03, 05:13 PM | Looks good. |
| WillfArOaH134412-26-03, 02:34 AM | Originally posted by Dream Spinner Yep. Now we need the actual pantheons. Okay, I already made 2. The Dwarven gods (the Obliskans), and the Demortali gods. The Demortali are an Underdark species. See the Underdark thread. (There is a lot there, believe me.) The Obliskans Khánma, Father Forge King God of the Forge and Patron of Blacksmiths Leader of the gods, he is of a dwarvish body. His eyes glow a firey red, as of the forge, and his hair is red-hot metal wire. In one hand is a forge hammer and in the other, a broadsword, still hot from the forge. His clothes have layers of soot on it, covering its actual colour. His symbol is carved into forges and weapons to bless them. His clerics are all blacksmiths that forge great holy weapons. These weapons are sought after by many heroes traveling in Khánma's region of power. Tiárnque, Mother Hearth Protectress Goddess of the Home and Patron of Mothers Wife of Khánma, she is also of a dwarvish body. (Okay, they pretty much are all of a dwarvish body.) Her eyes glows with a kindly red light. Her hair is of glowing golden thread. She is the Protectress of Homes and Family. Her symbol is drawn onto each door of homes to stop invaders of homes. Offerings of part of the family's meal is burned during each meal to bless their home. She has no clerics for all who wish for a healthy family and good home prays to her. Mátok, Chaos Child Volcano God of Wildfires Son of Khánma and Tiárnque, he is the god of uncontrolled fire and the like. Rather than adhere to the strict lifestyles of the Obliskans, he ran away to live alone. His volcano home is also where his home-temple is, obviously, but the temple is built within a cavern whose entrance is on the side of the volcano. This entrance is probably covered by hardened lava by now. His clerics reside in small temples near volcanoes. This way, the volcano god can teleport from volcano to volcano all over the world. Although he is a dissappointment, he is always welcomed home for a visit, although the people are warned to keep water handy when he does. Tákra, Sister Storm Merciful Goddess of Lightning With her flashing eyes and hair of lightning strands and booming voice, she is a fear-inspiring being. Despite her features, she is a kind goddess, like her mother. Unlike some gods of rains, she would never withhold rain from the people's farms. If she were angry, one needn't worry about drought, but worry about flooding and lightning. She easily forgives though and the people would never find themselves in need of an ark. Her clerics spend their time farming, handing out surpluses of food to the needy and storing the rest for possible future needs, never gorging themselves on their beautiful crops. Reak, Sleeper of Stone Patient Goddess of Mountains Sister of Khánma, her gray features make her seem more like a statue than a goddess. Add the fact that she is meditating most of the time and you would think she's a statue if you saw her. Goddess of stone, clay, and everything else having to do with rocks in nature, she is one of the most powerful gods of the Obliskans. Grankwe, Master of Masonry Stubborn God of Architecture Reak's child, he is the sturdy god of masonry. His symbol is a common sight in the dwarven tunnels and caves for it promotes stability and helps stop cave-in's. His clerics are often also royal inspectors, the people who go around and check the kingdom for possible future trouble with the architecture. Kelia, Angel of Art Creative Goddess of Sculpting Grankwe's twin, she is the inspiring goddess of stone art. As her brother is the column that holds up the roof, she is the woman the column is carved into. He the dome, she the carvings on the dome. Meriad, One of Ore Mighty God of Metals The most physically powerful of the gods, he is the father of Grankwe and Kelia. He is the only one of the Meriad not of a dwarvish stature. He is more like a tall beardless male human, with golden (as in the metal, not colour) hair and silver skin. His eyes are like made of liquid silver and it glows slightly. His clerics can do powerful magics with metal, especially communing with it and calling forth images from it, prophetic stuff. Meriad's clerics are also capable of makinig powerful metal golems. Deámondus, Root Reaper Nature God of Destruction Unlike the roots of a plant that slowly digs into a rock and split it apart, Deámondus is more a sledgehammer sort of god, as he is the deity of destruction. With wild brown hair with thorny vines and branches tangled in it and eyes that glow green menacingly, he is a frightening person to be near. His clerics are similar in their wild ways. They tend to scatter seeds all over their temple grounds and let them grow however they wish. People wishing to visit the temple (which is almost nonexistant) must fight through a jungle of venomous vines and carnivorous flowers to reach the front door. He is the brother of Khánma. Yeie, Coward of the Clouds Uncertain Goddess of the Air Yeie is the cowardly goddess of gases. Although she holds immense power, especially near her home-temple, she is too weak-willed to wield it properly. With beautiful hair that rival the beauty of the sky and eyes that shine like the sun does behind a cloud (you know, that light effect where it's blocked out, but you can still see it go through), Deámondus convinced her to wed him before any of her other suitors could. Under his control, heroes working against Deámondus' will may one day find themselves in an oxygenless field, but her natural kind nature sometimes show by the sudden rushing in of oxygen and her scared apologies for "weakening" towards the end of the spell to Deámondus. Her clerics tend to be wanderers, walkers of the open fields, despite their dwarven nature. Tivneik, the Golden Thread Trustworthy God of Vows He is Marraige, Trust, Vow, and Guilt. With his bronze hair and golden eyes, his domain is, unlike the other Obliskans who rules over elements, of blood. He is the jovial promise of friends to meet again in a decade, the dark vow of revenge, the moonlit whispered engagement, and he is the feelings that vows are based on and the feelings of vows kept and vows broken. His clerics perform wedding ceremonies, are trusted confidants, and the one you confess your sins in confidence to. Will Faroah, the wise elven monk lord Wise monk of wisdom to all gods and protector of the gate to the mountain As a monk Will was a kind young soul till his family was murdered by a band of orc, he swarn to kill all orc who got in his way, he was feared by all orc ecxept for... Lan Michokahn. Lan was the leader of the pack that killed his parents. Finally he Will found Lan and challenged him to a fight. Lan accepted and they fought and Will killed him with one blow. And was then a accepted to guard the gate. Over the years Will became wiser. Before he fought Will would tell them a story and then defeat them.[/B][/QUOTE] |
| Agent Graves03-15-04, 07:47 PM | i hope i dont throw a spanner in the works with this, but i was reading the thread, conjurin up some ideas and i came across the debate about gods in M:tG and how the power came from nature etc... I'm hoping this hasnt been said before, (egg on my face!) but; by keeping the pantheon and magic side of things closer to M:tG we could have magic originating from nature and the pantheon are actually planewalkers who have entered the plane and discovered how to manipulate the power of nature and elevated themselves to the status of gods... That way more 'things' will align themselves with one of the five colours, the gods can align themselves with one of the colour types, or more than one and manifest themselves in different ways for different alignments (LG, NG etc) and or differnt colours i hope u can make sense of it |
| Obsidianjaerc03-23-04, 11:48 PM | The inspiration for that something. The plan you follow to create it. The actual work to create it. And the detail you put into it. =\ The last one is shaky. Bruhzna Treassa the Need Winkle the Inspiration Voite the Plan ?? the Work ?? the Detail ?? the Use |
| Silent_spy04-16-04, 10:58 PM | I like this idea. Gods whose religion/followers dissapear should become immortals or really powerful mortals. I think they should be immortals. They usually find some god/immortal they like and form an alliance, so gods usually have a small group of immortal allies. Also, what IS an immortal? Unkillable? unkillable by mortals? extremely hard to kill but not technically 'immortal' at all? We can all settle on them being much more powerful than the average person, but we're going to need this info. |
| Tarlione04-26-04, 04:20 PM | I am new to this forum so forgive me for butting in: Also, what IS an immortal? Unkillable? unkillable by mortals? extremely hard to kill but not technically 'immortal' at all? We can all settle on them being much more powerful than the average person, but we're going to need this info. I think the better answer is that they are eternal, Killable but ageless. Having lost their worshippers or have left their area of influence they would have effectively lost their "Divine Spark". |
| the_one_true_shea09-13-06, 01:56 AM | Ahhh, that one long gods thread I was looking for. yes, I should look through this again. |