That is all.
Aside from that, well, 4e is just too different. Rules questions aren't gonna have even close to the same sort of answers and it'll be best of the newly PEGged 4e'ers have a specific place to go to more quickly get their answers.
While I can't say I'm 100% on board with the, uhh, descriptions of the different games, I am glad you wrote them the way you did because it allows me to go into my reason for supporting the idea of separate boards: There exists a very real animosity between the folks that play 1e through 3.5 and the folks what play 4e. That Edition War is still ongoing and I doubt we'll ever see the two sides get along. In order to avoid filling 1e-3.5e discussions with 4e threadcrapping (and vice versa), it's probably best that there be a separation.
Aside from that, well, 4e is just too different. Rules questions aren't gonna have even close to the same sort of answers and it'll be best of the newly PEGged 4e'ers have a specific place to go to more quickly get their answers.
ZB speaks for me as well. While I do have friends that play both 3.5 and 4e games, they openly admit they're a minority, and there's very little effort involved in switching between multiple subforums if you're in that minority.
Interestingly, while 3.5 is easily the most dominant game on the PE boards right now, when people come in with questions on AD&D (or, more rarely, even earlier games than that - we've had questions from BECMI players, for instance), there just isn't any edition bashing worth writing home about. Even forumgoers unfamiliar with the edition in question tend to lend a hand, or at worst just leave the thread alone. Edition warring can come to an end, but it appears to take a while.
It's not like it would be any strain on the Wizard servers or even much extra work on anybody's part. Mayhaps one moderator or two assigned to remember to check in on the newer sub-forum as well as our current one. One extra mouse click for them, versus constant aggravation of our plowing through useless threads...
My .02,
Neue
Just in case the powers that be actually do read up on our lowly opinions, I'll also cast my lot in with those hoping that the sub-forums be kept separate. I certainly will never play or buy or even look at a pirated iota of information about 4.0, and would be loathe to see the current PE forum cluttered with such; I might even stop bothering to patronize the forum if it were to prove to be a hassle of realizing three posts into half the threads that somebody didn't bother to start the thread like I do, with the "Game Edition". (3.5 core ~ in my for instance at the very top).
It's not like it would be any strain on the Wizard servers or even much extra work on anybody's part. Mayhaps one moderator or two assigned to remember to check in on the newer sub-forum as well as our current one. One extra mouse click for them, versus constant aggravation of our plowing through useless threads...
My .02,
Neue
That's not exactly a terroristic threat.
I agree with having a separate forum for 4e, even if just for the reason that the 4e game system is very different from prior editions.
Yeah, me too.
PE:
4th edition
3.5
3rd
rest of them
Each could have a subfotum for certian topics as well...
Better to have the 4e section off by itself somewhere.
*shrug*
It makes no difference to me though.
I don't play D&D anymore.
And I am completely disinterested in 5e, or whatever the kids are calling it nowadays.
4E General
4E CharOps
D&D Previous Editions General
D&D Previous Editions CharOps
Done!
No, ts. It's really simple: 4E General 4E CharOps D&D Previous Editions General D&D Previous Editions CharOps Done!
weather or not you argee with them according to WotC 4th eidtion is D&D so since it iwll be a previous eidtion it would be grouped under the forum heading of PRevious edititon so it could go like this:
Previous Editions:
1. 4th edition
1General
2. ChrOps
2. 3.5 Edition
1 3.5 General
2. Charops
3. Other editions general/charops/whatever posters chose
No, ts. It's really simple: 4E General 4E CharOps D&D Previous Editions General D&D Previous Editions CharOps Done!
weather or not you argee with them according to WotC 4th eidtion is D&D so since it iwll be a previous eidtion it would be grouped under the forum heading of PRevious edititon so it could go like this:
Previous Editions:
1. 4th edition
1General
2. ChrOps
2. 3.5 Edition
1 3.5 General
2. Charops
3. Other editions general/charops/whatever posters chose
I'd prefer:
Previous Editions:
1. General
2. CharOps
But if we have to include 4E, I'd go for:
Previous Edition:
4E:
1. General
2. CharOps
Previous Editions:
1. General
2. CharOps
On the other hand, it also won't bother me if they're separate; people can keep to themselves if that's what they wish.
I can say that if/when the Previous Editions boards get over run by 4e, or worse all the current 4e stuff gets dumped into them, it will probably be the end of my contributions.
wrecan spent a lot of time figuring out the best way to streamline these forums to drive traffic and I for one appreciate his work. I understand that asking to add an additional section for 4e once it's a PE is sort of against that principle and wouldn't even consider asking for the separation if I didn't think it was best - and I do for the reasons I've already given. But splitting PE more? No.
If you guys are gonna lump OD&D, BECMI, 1e, 2e, 2.5e, 3e, 3.5e all together, you may as well just throw 4e and 4.5e in there as well.
Lolno
If you guys are gonna lump OD&D, BECMI, 1e, 2e, 2.5e, 3e, 3.5e all together, you may as well just throw 4e and 4.5e in there as well.
I explained why in my first post: The kiddies don't get along with each other. Why turn a calm, useful board into Concerns and Criticism Part 2?
If you guys are gonna lump OD&D, BECMI, 1e, 2e, 2.5e, 3e, 3.5e all together, you may as well just throw 4e and 4.5e in there as well.
I explained why in my first post: The kiddies don't get along with each other. Why turn a calm, useful board into Concerns and Criticism Part 2?
Because that would be fun.
Again, lolno.
lolyes
Why not? its all essentally the same thing, you tell the DM what youre doing, he/she tellls you to roll, you add in , or subtract, any applicable bonuses, the DM tells you yeah you made it or no you suck.
It really isn't that simple. Yes, both 4E/4.5 and all previous editions are based around d20 rolls with various bonuses and penalties. That doesn't make them "essentially the same". They have entirely different design goals and methods, and 4.X plays immensely differently from any other edition, to a greater degree than, say, 2E to 3.5.
Dungeons & Dragons
5E (or whatever it gets retitled to)
Subforums for 5E
.
.
.
Previous Editions:
1. General
2. CharOps
General Gaming
4E:
1. General
2. CharOps
lolgtfoscrub
lol, really burns you up when im right, doesnt it?
Why not? its all essentally the same thing, you tell the DM what youre doing, he/she tellls you to roll, you add in , or subtract, any applicable bonuses, the DM tells you yeah you made it or no you suck.
It really isn't that simple. Yes, both 4E/4.5 and all previous editions are based around d20 rolls with various bonuses and penalties. That doesn't make them "essentially the same". They have entirely different design goals and methods, and 4.X plays immensely differently from any other edition, to a greater degree than, say, 2E to 3.5.
I think you (and everyone else) is missing my point, yes I realize that 4e plays a little different, and BECMI was different than AD&D and 2.5 really changed stuff up, and yes 3.xe brought more changes to the game, some of which like Feats and what not are still with us.
What im saying is if OD&D, BECMI, AD&D, 2.5 and 3.x are all lumped under previous editons, then I see no reason why 4.xe shouldnt be added in as well. Yes there are differences between the various editions, but there are also lots of similarities.
And let's face it, the edition change and the fiasco around how it was handled have left a great deal of animosity between the two factions that arose. Putting 4E with the rest is not going to be productive.
1I'm mostly referring to 3.X here; 2E seems similar, but I don't have enough experience with it to say. And AD&D is AD&D.
Yes I do agree that with Healing Surges and the removal of save or die spells and effects there is less risk to the players, but that just means the DM needs to up his game to challange the players.
I dont think 4e offers less options for character creation though, I think Essentials kinda cut down on some of that with the way they did classes, you get this power and this level and this power and that, instead of choosing a power from this list, granted you could still pick another power, but that was the way it was presented. Ive made characters in 3.x and 4.x and Ive felt that those characters were unique and not just a cookie cutter, picking different feats and powers and what not really lets you customize your character to whatever style youre into. I didnt really get that feeling in OD&D-AD&D, my half-elf ranger seemed pretty much like every other half-elf ranger even if I did have different NWPs or whatever, really wasnt anything i could do that any other half-elf ranger could do, knowhatimena?
And so what if 4ers and others dont get along? True story: I used to have these 2 cats that hated each other they would always fight each other, I guess I coulda kept them seperated, but you know what I did? I locked them in a room together and let them sort out their differences, after a day or so they managed to work it out and didnt fight (as much) any more. I do admit how ever that I did this more for my own personal amusement than working to bring felines together or whatever.
And so what if 4ers and others dont get along? True story: I used to have these 2 cats that hated each other they would always fight each other, I guess I coulda kept them seperated, but you know what I did? I locked them in a room together and let them sort out their differences, after a day or so they managed to work it out and didnt fight (as much) any more. I do admit how ever that I did this more for my own personal amusement than working to bring felines together or whatever.
3.5 fans and 4e fans were locked together for a lot longer than a couple of days and they still hate each other. ;)
3.5 fans and 4e fans were locked together for a lot longer than a couple of days and they still hate each other. ;)
That's why I suggest moving 4E over to the General Gaming forums. It keeps them apart, and I think you would agree, it fits 4E better.
lol, really burns you up when im right, doesnt it?
I don't know. You haven't been right yet, so I have nothing to base an opinion on.
That's why I suggest moving 4E over to the General Gaming forums. It keeps them apart, and I think you would agree, it fits 4E better.
I don't see a need but it also wouldn't hurt my feelings any. ;)
That's why I suggest moving 4E over to the General Gaming forums. It keeps them apart, and I think you would agree, it fits 4E better.
I don't see a need but it also wouldn't hurt my feelings any. ;)
There is no need to do anything. I'm just suggesting it so 4E can be categorized properly. ;)
I dunno, I think I'm with HS on this one.
I had a feeling you would be. ;)
There is no need to do anything. I'm just suggesting it so 4E can be categorized properly. ;)
Oh, I figured out what you were getting at. I also know you're not alone. ;)
lol, really burns you up when im right, doesnt it?
I don't know. You haven't been right yet, so I have nothing to base an opinion on.
I may not always be right, er wait a minute, yes I am!!!
And so what if 4ers and others dont get along? True story: I used to have these 2 cats that hated each other they would always fight each other, I guess I coulda kept them seperated, but you know what I did? I locked them in a room together and let them sort out their differences, after a day or so they managed to work it out and didnt fight (as much) any more. I do admit how ever that I did this more for my own personal amusement than working to bring felines together or whatever.
3.5 fans and 4e fans were locked together for a lot longer than a couple of days and they still hate each other. ;)
They just need a little more time, thats all.
And so what if 4ers and others dont get along? True story: I used to have these 2 cats that hated each other they would always fight each other, I guess I coulda kept them seperated, but you know what I did? I locked them in a room together and let them sort out their differences, after a day or so they managed to work it out and didnt fight (as much) any more. I do admit how ever that I did this more for my own personal amusement than working to bring felines together or whatever.
3.5 fans and 4e fans were locked together for a lot longer than a couple of days and they still hate each other. ;)
They just need a little more time, thats all.
Why? 4E can just go over to the General Gaming forums. They won't bother anyone, and no one will bother them.
And so what if 4ers and others dont get along? True story: I used to have these 2 cats that hated each other they would always fight each other, I guess I coulda kept them seperated, but you know what I did? I locked them in a room together and let them sort out their differences, after a day or so they managed to work it out and didnt fight (as much) any more. I do admit how ever that I did this more for my own personal amusement than working to bring felines together or whatever.
While I would personally not have a problem with 4E becoming part of Previous Editions, I still think it's a bad idea. There is so much animosity between players of 4E and earlier editions just look at the way a lot of posts in this thread are written. Even a lot of threads in the D&D Next forums deteriorate into edition wars.
Personally I think we need to be grateful that WotC even provides a place to discuss out of print editions, some even never published by them. (Well that's changing now with the reprints, but still).
But putting the two groups together would create so much problems that would then need much and much more moderation that I don't think it's worth it. The patrons on these forums aren't mature enough, on both sides of the fence. It would spoil the fun for everyone for a long time, probably chasing away a lot of the more decent users. We've seen it in the past, see references in this thread.
As for 4E swamping the Previous Edtions forums, I think it's player base will dwindle quickly, especially if DDI support would disappear.
But we would not have Edition War, we would have Edition Armageddon.
They just need a little more time, thats all.
Dude, read the replies in this thread. A lot of them are very cleverly crafted to infuriate 4E players while dancing just within the lines of the Code of Conduct. A lot of these people have been fighting in the edition wars for years. Giving them free reign in a forum with lots of 4E fans would lead to an incredible mess.
And in the 4E camp there are others that would like to taunt older edition players just as much.
If you're not seeing the taunts to 4E players that drip from nearly every post in this thread you're not paying attention.
This has been going on for many years now, it's not likely to stop soon.
You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...
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As much as I love 4th Ed, I really don't understand why we'd need special treatment. If this site has a section for Previous Editions, and 4th Ed becomes a previous edition....then I see no harm in moving. Let the trolls and the edition warriors fight and fall where they may and let the Orcs sort them out.
At the very least, breaking it up into two sub-forums would make sense since there would be a lot of edition specific information that probably shouldn't be mixed up.
As much as I love 4th Ed, I really don't understand why we'd need special treatment. If this site has a section for Previous Editions, and 4th Ed becomes a previous edition....then I see no harm in moving. Let the trolls and the edition warriors fight and fall where they may and let the Orcs sort them out.
Finally! Someone actually making some sense!!!
As much as I love 4th Ed, I really don't understand why we'd need special treatment. If this site has a section for Previous Editions, and 4th Ed becomes a previous edition....then I see no harm in moving. Let the trolls and the edition warriors fight and fall where they may and let the Orcs sort them out.
No. We're tired of that garbage and don't want it. We have a nice (overall) vibe going on and would like to keep it.
At the very least, breaking it up into two sub-forums would make sense since there would be a lot of edition specific information that probably shouldn't be mixed up.
And this is the other reason I'm an advocate of separation. The games are very different - no judgement there, they just are. It'll be easier to find info if there's a clear explanation of where to find it.
As much as I love 4th Ed, I really don't understand why we'd need special treatment. If this site has a section for Previous Editions, and 4th Ed becomes a previous edition....then I see no harm in moving. Let the trolls and the edition warriors fight and fall where they may and let the Orcs sort them out.
No. We're tired of that garbage and don't want it. We have a nice (overall) vibe going on and would like to keep it.At the very least, breaking it up into two sub-forums would make sense since there would be a lot of edition specific information that probably shouldn't be mixed up.
And this is the other reason I'm an advocate of separation. The games are very different - no judgement there, they just are. It'll be easier to find info if there's a clear explanation of where to find it.
and you refuse to use the report button don't forget that