A Request to Change the DM & Player Forum Names - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A Request to Change the DM & Player Forum Names

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wrecan
Jun 05, 2008 9:38:51 Community Management,

Zherog, the Forum Lead for the Player Advice forum, and myself, the Forum Lead for the Dungeon Master Advice forum, have been marshaling the opinions of the residents of our respective forums on their opinion of the names the forums should possess in this Fourth Edition incarnation of the D&D Boards.

The consensus has been overwhelming that the names should be changed back to:

What's a DM to Do? and What's a Player to Do?, respectively.

Now, you might remember that I was a strong critic of these forum names (whereas Zherog was a supporter). I still am. However, I cannot deny that both forums quite strongly desire a return to the old names. Accordingly, on behalf of our respective communities, we respectfully request that the forums revert to their prior names.

Barring that action, we offer as an alternative, the following names, which appear to be the second-favorite choice of both forums:

From Behind the DM Screen and From the Players' Perspective, respectively.

Thank you for your consideration.
#2
tytalus
Jun 05, 2008 10:17:45 Link to the respective voting threads, please?
#3
wrecan
Jun 05, 2008 10:24:25 [thread=1034862]Dungeon Masters[/thread]
[thread=1033866]Players[/thread]
#4
Zherog
Jun 11, 2008 12:06:54 just a quickie post to give this a to bring it back to the top.
#5
hellmute
Jun 11, 2008 16:58:40

Now this is how the community should work!

to wrecan & Zherog for responding to the communities request and recognizing the communities opinion to matter.
#6
wrecan
Jun 11, 2008 17:25:32 I PMed Mike about this today and he said that -- not surprisingly -- CM's a bt busy with the 4E release and that renaming the DM and Player boards are not high priority. I thanked him for the head's up and said I'd remind him about this in a few weeks when -- hopefully -- things may calm down.

So for the rest of us, let patience be our virtue. We'll reconvene in July!
#7
Zherog
Jun 11, 2008 17:52:18 I'm not at all surprised they're busy. Especially given the, er... traffic in the DDI section.
#8
hellmute
Jun 11, 2008 20:51:51 So they could take the time to respond, but not go into the admin panel and rename the forums that would have taken about the same amount of time to do as respond to the PM?
#9
wrecan
Jun 11, 2008 21:28:15 No, hellmute. Mike had time to tell me that CM as a group didn't have time and wouldn't have time. And no, I'm sure it would have taken more than the five seconds that Mike spent composing the PM for CM to determine whether to rename the forum and, if so, to what.
#10
hellmute
Jun 11, 2008 21:48:12 Mike personally responded then? ok. That is different than someone from CM responding that could have done it, as I think Mike has a few other things on his personal plate to take care of.
#11
Zherog
Jun 12, 2008 7:00:40 WotC_Michelle is the person who would need to make the actual change -- she's the Community Management employee with admin access to the forums. I agree with Hellmute that it would be a very quick action (I'd estimate it at about 1 minute, though, not 10 seconds ;) ). I'm sure when Michelle has a minute, she'll get to the task (assuming Mike has asked her to put it on her to-do list, of course).
#12
hellmute
Jun 12, 2008 7:04:38 There is only one person that can affect changes to forum names and such? There needs to be many more than that so that someone on at any hour can maet the requests of the VCL and other forums staff.
#13
Webster
Jun 12, 2008 7:07:19 CS IS on all the time to take care of VCL requests.

Forum name change isn't something that has to have access for 24/7.

;)
#14
hellmute
Jun 12, 2008 17:02:20
CS IS on all the time to take care of VCL requests.

Forum name change isn't something that has to have access for 24/7.

;)

Forun name changes should be handled by the same people that can handle thread moving and such. Someone with administrator access, or supermod access depending on the hacks or additional modules added to this version of vBulletin.

Sysop control can be limited to office hours, but shouldn't be required to run the boards. Like when Scott Rouse and those other people are on late at night making announcements and such, there needs to be someone on will access to grant the thread sticky status, and maybe even add a forum if something is urgent to be annoucned.

CS shouldn't be handling those things. They should be divorced form the forums, UNLESS CS will handle ALL customer service issues through the forums rather than the clunky as poorly designed CS forms and system.
#15
wrecan
Jun 12, 2008 17:04:38
Forun name changes should be handled by the same people that can handle thread moving and such.

Why? Name changes aren't urgent. There's no reason for WizOs to be able to change them. That's a management decision that should be made by the Community Management team as a whole.
#16
hellmute
Jun 12, 2008 17:12:59 If something really screws up then there needs to be someone available to be able to either turn the forums off, or something else at all times so they do not further get screwed up by using the forums in a broken state.

Something wrong on the back-end could cause lots of damage to the database. The same persons that could be able to disable the forums to prevent further damage would easily be able to change a forums name.
#17
wrecan
Jun 12, 2008 17:36:46
If something really screws up

We're discussing the ability to change a forum name. There's no screw-up so urgent that it would require a forum's name to be changed.

Are you making this as a serious recommendation? I ask because I've always answered your questions seriously, but I'm beginning to get the feeling I'm having my chain yanked for laughs.
#18
hellmute
Jun 12, 2008 18:28:14 I am saying the access required to resolve a major system screw-up should include that to change a forum name. Someone with that kind of access should be available at all hours of the day to resolve a major system foul up. Therefore there should be someone able to make a forum name change.

If someone can disable the forums, but not change the names of them, then there are some very silly user groups/levels built into WotC forums.
#19
wrecan
Jun 13, 2008 8:16:45 It's not a matter of "can", hellmute. You're the only one who keeps confusing "ability" and "authority".

CM is the one with management responsibility over what the forums are named. So it doesn't matter if CS has the capacity to change the names or not to change the capacity. Until CM has the chance to meet and confer and decide on whether to change the forum names, they won't get changed.
#20
mudbunny
Jun 13, 2008 8:27:02
I am saying the access required to resolve a major system screw-up should include that to change a forum name. Someone with that kind of access should be available at all hours of the day to resolve a major system foul up. Therefore there should be someone able to make a forum name change.

If someone can disable the forums, but not change the names of them, then there are some very silly user groups/levels built into WotC forums.

I am not sure where you get the idea that the WizOs can "disable the forums". That is not something that is, as far as I know, in the task description for WizOs.
#21
Zherog
Jul 08, 2008 9:28:00 I'd like to this back up, just to make sure it's still on the radar.
#22
gamer_zer0
Jul 08, 2008 10:27:19 We're going to stick with the existing names for the time being. Sorry for anyone who dislikes them. They were selected by members of the community.
#23
Zherog
Jul 08, 2008 10:40:31 No, they weren't. They were selected by one member of the community. In wrecan's second post in this thread, you can find links to where the communities actually discuss the forum names, and offer up their preferences.
#24
wrecan
Jul 08, 2008 12:53:40 That is disappointing. I am sorry that my choice is not the preferred choice of the forums. I wish more people had made suggestions at the time. If there is anything to be done to change CM's position, please let me know.
#25
the_ubbergeek
Jul 08, 2008 13:23:22 Dudes, it's just semantic... Chat blanc and blanc chat. As long as the cat get the mice...
#26
etarnon
Jul 09, 2008 0:18:48 Amusing that it was chosen, many are not for it, yet "isn't going to be changed", despite expressed regret of the "Chooser" and presence and knowledge of Gamer_Zero.
#27
wrecan
Jul 09, 2008 8:06:03 Well, technically, I never suggested "DM Advice". I suggested "Dungeon Master Guidance" and "Player Advice". So, technically, "Dungeon Master Advice" (the forum of which I am Forum Lead) is a forum name that nobody chose.
#28
hellmute
Jul 09, 2008 8:13:14 So the person that suggested in some fashion, the names of the forums as they are now, created a thread requesting them to change based on community decisions, yet management is unwilling to rename the forums even at the request of the moderator type person that suggested the names in some fashion?

Seems like another case of R&D choosing the names for the Character forums to split them into "roles".
#29
Zherog
Aug 25, 2008 13:56:58 After discussing this issue with Solice a bit, she requested I give the thread a bump so conversation on this request can continue.

So...

#30
solice
Aug 25, 2008 13:59:34 Thank you guys for taking the time to poll the community and report their feedback.

These names will be changed as requested.

Thank you again and happy gaming!
#31
hellmute
Aug 25, 2008 14:05:48
Thank you guys for taking the time to poll the community and report their feedback.

These names will be changed as requested.

Thank you again and happy gaming!

What will their new names be exactly since it has been a while and lots of things have transpired and a few options were given in this thread.
#32
Zherog
Aug 25, 2008 14:17:42 I'm assuming it'll either be our first choice or our second choice. Either is fine by me.

Thanks, Solice!

edit: yep! first choice!

Next year at GenCon, Solice, I owe you an adult beverage of your choice. (though I'll take this moment to point out that I never got a chance to collect the one you owe me ;) )
#33
zombie_babies
Aug 25, 2008 14:28:21 Thank you Solice for taking the time to look at the work that wrecan and Zherog did to address a community issue. Thanks to them too, of course. :D
#34
wrecan
Aug 25, 2008 18:07:06 Thank you, Solice. By the way, you can probably get rid of the links in the Legacy section to the WaDMtD and WaPtD forums
#35
athzar
Aug 25, 2008 23:51:10 Awesome! What's A DM To Do always sounded a much better name than whatever it was before (Dungeon Master Advice? too generic)
#36
erato
Aug 26, 2008 6:06:04
Thank you guys for taking the time to poll the community and report their feedback.

These names will be changed as requested.

Thank you again and happy gaming!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wrecan Jun 05, 2008 9:38:51	Community Management, Zherog, the Forum Lead for the Player Advice forum, and myself, the Forum Lead for the Dungeon Master Advice forum, have been marshaling the opinions of the residents of our respective forums on their opinion of the names the forums should possess in this Fourth Edition incarnation of the D&D Boards. The consensus has been overwhelming that the names should be changed back to: What's a DM to Do? and What's a Player to Do?, respectively. Now, you might remember that I was a strong critic of these forum names (whereas Zherog was a supporter). I still am. However, I cannot deny that both forums quite strongly desire a return to the old names. Accordingly, on behalf of our respective communities, we respectfully request that the forums revert to their prior names. Barring that action, we offer as an alternative, the following names, which appear to be the second-favorite choice of both forums: From Behind the DM Screen and From the Players' Perspective, respectively. Thank you for your consideration.
#2 tytalus Jun 05, 2008 10:17:45	Link to the respective voting threads, please?
#3 wrecan Jun 05, 2008 10:24:25	[thread=1034862]Dungeon Masters[/thread] [thread=1033866]Players[/thread]
#4 Zherog Jun 11, 2008 12:06:54	just a quickie post to give this a to bring it back to the top.
#5 hellmute Jun 11, 2008 16:58:40	Now this is how the community should work! to wrecan & Zherog for responding to the communities request and recognizing the communities opinion to matter.
#6 wrecan Jun 11, 2008 17:25:32	I PMed Mike about this today and he said that -- not surprisingly -- CM's a bt busy with the 4E release and that renaming the DM and Player boards are not high priority. I thanked him for the head's up and said I'd remind him about this in a few weeks when -- hopefully -- things may calm down. So for the rest of us, let patience be our virtue. We'll reconvene in July!
#7 Zherog Jun 11, 2008 17:52:18	I'm not at all surprised they're busy. Especially given the, er... traffic in the DDI section.
#8 hellmute Jun 11, 2008 20:51:51	So they could take the time to respond, but not go into the admin panel and rename the forums that would have taken about the same amount of time to do as respond to the PM?
#9 wrecan Jun 11, 2008 21:28:15	No, hellmute. Mike had time to tell me that CM as a group didn't have time and wouldn't have time. And no, I'm sure it would have taken more than the five seconds that Mike spent composing the PM for CM to determine whether to rename the forum and, if so, to what.
#10 hellmute Jun 11, 2008 21:48:12	Mike personally responded then? ok. That is different than someone from CM responding that could have done it, as I think Mike has a few other things on his personal plate to take care of.
#11 Zherog Jun 12, 2008 7:00:40	WotC_Michelle is the person who would need to make the actual change -- she's the Community Management employee with admin access to the forums. I agree with Hellmute that it would be a very quick action (I'd estimate it at about 1 minute, though, not 10 seconds ;) ). I'm sure when Michelle has a minute, she'll get to the task (assuming Mike has asked her to put it on her to-do list, of course).
#12 hellmute Jun 12, 2008 7:04:38	There is only one person that can affect changes to forum names and such? There needs to be many more than that so that someone on at any hour can maet the requests of the VCL and other forums staff.
#13 Webster Jun 12, 2008 7:07:19	CS IS on all the time to take care of VCL requests. Forum name change isn't something that has to have access for 24/7. ;)
#14 hellmute Jun 12, 2008 17:02:20	CS IS on all the time to take care of VCL requests. Forum name change isn't something that has to have access for 24/7. ;) Forun name changes should be handled by the same people that can handle thread moving and such. Someone with administrator access, or supermod access depending on the hacks or additional modules added to this version of vBulletin. Sysop control can be limited to office hours, but shouldn't be required to run the boards. Like when Scott Rouse and those other people are on late at night making announcements and such, there needs to be someone on will access to grant the thread sticky status, and maybe even add a forum if something is urgent to be annoucned. CS shouldn't be handling those things. They should be divorced form the forums, UNLESS CS will handle ALL customer service issues through the forums rather than the clunky as poorly designed CS forms and system.
#15 wrecan Jun 12, 2008 17:04:38	Forun name changes should be handled by the same people that can handle thread moving and such. Why? Name changes aren't urgent. There's no reason for WizOs to be able to change them. That's a management decision that should be made by the Community Management team as a whole.
#16 hellmute Jun 12, 2008 17:12:59	If something really screws up then there needs to be someone available to be able to either turn the forums off, or something else at all times so they do not further get screwed up by using the forums in a broken state. Something wrong on the back-end could cause lots of damage to the database. The same persons that could be able to disable the forums to prevent further damage would easily be able to change a forums name.
#17 wrecan Jun 12, 2008 17:36:46	If something really screws up We're discussing the ability to change a forum name. There's no screw-up so urgent that it would require a forum's name to be changed. Are you making this as a serious recommendation? I ask because I've always answered your questions seriously, but I'm beginning to get the feeling I'm having my chain yanked for laughs.
#18 hellmute Jun 12, 2008 18:28:14	I am saying the access required to resolve a major system screw-up should include that to change a forum name. Someone with that kind of access should be available at all hours of the day to resolve a major system foul up. Therefore there should be someone able to make a forum name change. If someone can disable the forums, but not change the names of them, then there are some very silly user groups/levels built into WotC forums.
#19 wrecan Jun 13, 2008 8:16:45	It's not a matter of "can", hellmute. You're the only one who keeps confusing "ability" and "authority". CM is the one with management responsibility over what the forums are named. So it doesn't matter if CS has the capacity to change the names or not to change the capacity. Until CM has the chance to meet and confer and decide on whether to change the forum names, they won't get changed.
#20 mudbunny Jun 13, 2008 8:27:02	I am saying the access required to resolve a major system screw-up should include that to change a forum name. Someone with that kind of access should be available at all hours of the day to resolve a major system foul up. Therefore there should be someone able to make a forum name change. If someone can disable the forums, but not change the names of them, then there are some very silly user groups/levels built into WotC forums. I am not sure where you get the idea that the WizOs can "disable the forums". That is not something that is, as far as I know, in the task description for WizOs.
#21 Zherog Jul 08, 2008 9:28:00	I'd like to this back up, just to make sure it's still on the radar.
#22 gamer_zer0 Jul 08, 2008 10:27:19	We're going to stick with the existing names for the time being. Sorry for anyone who dislikes them. They were selected by members of the community.
#23 Zherog Jul 08, 2008 10:40:31	No, they weren't. They were selected by one member of the community. In wrecan's second post in this thread, you can find links to where the communities actually discuss the forum names, and offer up their preferences.
#24 wrecan Jul 08, 2008 12:53:40	That is disappointing. I am sorry that my choice is not the preferred choice of the forums. I wish more people had made suggestions at the time. If there is anything to be done to change CM's position, please let me know.
#25 the_ubbergeek Jul 08, 2008 13:23:22	Dudes, it's just semantic... Chat blanc and blanc chat. As long as the cat get the mice...
#26 etarnon Jul 09, 2008 0:18:48	Amusing that it was chosen, many are not for it, yet "isn't going to be changed", despite expressed regret of the "Chooser" and presence and knowledge of Gamer_Zero.
#27 wrecan Jul 09, 2008 8:06:03	Well, technically, I never suggested "DM Advice". I suggested "Dungeon Master Guidance" and "Player Advice". So, technically, "Dungeon Master Advice" (the forum of which I am Forum Lead) is a forum name that nobody chose.
#28 hellmute Jul 09, 2008 8:13:14	So the person that suggested in some fashion, the names of the forums as they are now, created a thread requesting them to change based on community decisions, yet management is unwilling to rename the forums even at the request of the moderator type person that suggested the names in some fashion? Seems like another case of R&D choosing the names for the Character forums to split them into "roles".
#29 Zherog Aug 25, 2008 13:56:58	After discussing this issue with Solice a bit, she requested I give the thread a bump so conversation on this request can continue. So...
#30 solice Aug 25, 2008 13:59:34	Thank you guys for taking the time to poll the community and report their feedback. These names will be changed as requested. Thank you again and happy gaming!
#31 hellmute Aug 25, 2008 14:05:48	Thank you guys for taking the time to poll the community and report their feedback. These names will be changed as requested. Thank you again and happy gaming! What will their new names be exactly since it has been a while and lots of things have transpired and a few options were given in this thread.
#32 Zherog Aug 25, 2008 14:17:42	I'm assuming it'll either be our first choice or our second choice. Either is fine by me. Thanks, Solice! edit: yep! first choice! Next year at GenCon, Solice, I owe you an adult beverage of your choice. (though I'll take this moment to point out that I never got a chance to collect the one you owe me ;) )
#33 zombie_babies Aug 25, 2008 14:28:21	Thank you Solice for taking the time to look at the work that wrecan and Zherog did to address a community issue. Thanks to them too, of course. :D
#34 wrecan Aug 25, 2008 18:07:06	Thank you, Solice. By the way, you can probably get rid of the links in the Legacy section to the WaDMtD and WaPtD forums
#35 athzar Aug 25, 2008 23:51:10	Awesome! What's A DM To Do always sounded a much better name than whatever it was before (Dungeon Master Advice? too generic)
#36 erato Aug 26, 2008 6:06:04	Thank you guys for taking the time to poll the community and report their feedback. These names will be changed as requested. Thank you again and happy gaming!