Presented below, in an sblock, is the entireity of the post that I made, including the quote I was responding to.
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HATER;17535275 wrote:
While I'm at it, people might also want to check their sigs. If your sig has "4E sucks" or "4E Hater" (or any other derrogatory remarks, editions aside), you should expect any comments you make to be scrutinized much more carefully, as your sig is the last thing people will read before they hit the "reply" button.
Just my 2 cents' worth.
Also, if your sig contains "4e forever!111one!", "4e is the best edition ever!!", "4E Avenger and Flamer of Dissenters", or something along those lines, you should expect your posts to be scrutinized...
I hate to break this to you, but I have yet to see a "Pro 4" (as if some how this makes us different than being gamers) have something like that in their sig.
I see more mindless "H4ters" than I do people that like the new edition.
Also, stupidity tends to get flamed more than "dissent".
Again posters like Warweaver are welcomed on these forums. Other posters like Mr. Dead Fetus are not.
And I'm someone who actually likes the new edition and is mostly neutral about the 3E vs. 4E debate.
*And, if I regularly waded through the general 4E forums (I don't), I probably would find more.
On topic, I'm sick of all the edition war threads. And the "reviews" that are X edition sucks. I personally dislike the strongly pro 4e guys as much as the strongly anti 4e guys. It's just a game. D&D is not "serious buisness." It's a game where jell-o cubes run rampant for Pete's sake.
Also, if your sig contains "4e forever!111one!", "4e is the best edition ever!!", "4E Avenger and Flamer of Dissenters", or something along those lines, you should expect your posts to be scrutinized...
This is true, though it seems a bit hypocritical of you to point it out; sigs such as "4e sucks" or "$E is the worst edition ever" put their owners under an equal amount of suspicion.
Also, good post, OP.
Still, the majority of 4E Avengers/Superheroes/Whatever seem to be all right to me.
Great OP. It should also be noted that in both of Samyueru's examples, the posts which are designed to elicit a "positive" (non-dismissive) reaction are the longer ones, requiring more time and thought to manufacture.
Making a post in a tone that doesn't get you dismissed as a troll or deleted does not necessarily require more time - however, ensuring that it makes sense and contains enough information for other posters to "put it together" does, and is the price we pay when we are really trying to get people to understand us, instead of just yelling it at them.
We should also be aware that while these kind of posts can take more time, they are ultimately more rewarding. Unless you consider mindless, mouth-frothing rage its own reward, because that emotion has trouble surviving when two sides actually get what each other is saying.
We can understand and still disagree. It doesn't weaken either side's argument, unless that argument was flawed to begin with.
Wow I got mentioned in a thread I hadn't even seen till now. That's what I call good press (thanks Cpt_Micha!). :P
It's because you are, in fact, that awesome. Your awesomeness owes no bound'ries, and shall be sung unto the masses for the next net-generation (roughly 2.5 mill...iseconds) and women shall name their children after you. All hail Warweaver, king of the dissenters and honourary bearer of the awesomesauce. Seriously, though, you rock dude. As was mentioned, your tone is always polite and we all (myself included) could do to be as polite as you.
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Word choice is important and tone has impact. For instance, if somebody calls me a "loud-mouthed, know-it all", I'm gonna be more hostile than if they say I'm "vocal and opinionated." Both are put downs but the first is sure to immediately tick me off; the second, I just take your name (and put it on ignore) :P.
I try to realize the difference between an opinion and a fact. If I share an opinion, it should easily recognized as such. Sometimes however, it's best to actually spell it out: IMHO, as it were ;).
Despite my best efforts, things I post sometimes get taken the wrong way. Or vice-versa. It happens. I've learned it never hurts to give someone the benefit of the doubt. An immediate flame only removes any question about how the conversation is gonna end. If that's what ya want, go for it. I'd rather hope for the best though.
Some people are just jerks though. Their posting habits will almost always give 'em away ;). In real life, I don't engage jerks in conversation (I usually go out of my way to actively avoid 'em). Why would I want to talk to a jerk online?
Introspection
My bad temper literally scares me, especially now that I'm an adult with responsibilities. I've learned to avoid confrontation whenever possible. It's not always possible of course and I've not always been so careful; literally, it has taken a lifetime to realize, accept, and live within my emotional limitations. Shame I didn't gain this insight earlier; could of avoided a lot problems. That's how it goes though; live and learn.
Things I've learned as a poster:
Word choice is important and tone has impact. For instance, if somebody calls me a "loud-mouthed, know-it all", I'm gonna be more hostile than if they say I'm "vocal and opinionated." Both are put downs but the first is sure to immediately tick me off; the second, I just take your name (and put it on ignore)
You'd honestly put someone on ignore for referring to you as vocal and opinionated? Aren't we all vocal and opinionated? If we weren't, we wouldn't be chatting with each other on an internet forum.
You'd honestly put someone on ignore for referring to you as vocal and opinionated? Aren't we all vocal and opinionated? If we weren't, we wouldn't be chatting with each other on an internet forum.
I was just being silly, hence the :razz:.
Well, I can understand the removal of my second post, the the first one was just a comically verbose thank you to WW for setting a good example of positive, yet dissenting, tone.
Well thank you nevertheless F-man. For what it's worth I did catch it before deletion and would've responded with this - :embarrass
Someday I shall discover how to make this pleasant demeanor work on "the ladies".
I was just being silly, hence the :razz:.
Thank goodness. I'd hoped that peoples' sensibilities had not become quite that delicate.
If a poster cops an attitude, a price will be paid. Expect to the community to either ignore them or call them out. We police our own.
Besides, 99%+ of the time, this is not anyone's first forum membership.
Unless there has been mass bans for flaming and trolling, threads like this should not exist. It is sufficient for there to be a locked/sticky at the top of the main board with READ FIRST and/or RULES OF CONDUCT.
If some troll got your panties in a wad then by all means try and educate them. Trade your calm posts with their flames. Send them PMs even. Why subject the rest of us the rant? Why start a fresh thread on the subject? If I read the OP correctly, this is a second thread on a similar situation. Why?
Is it really necessary to pull up a soapbox and start preaching to the general population? Have things degenerated that badly here? Have people forgotten how to /ignore other posters?
Maybe I just have been hanging out in different threads from the OP, but I haven't seen any problem in any threads I have visited.
Tone, schmone.
If a poster cops an attitude, a price will be paid. Expect to the community to either ignore them or call them out. We police our own.
A price will be paid? Seriously? That's funny. What...are you gonna put a hit out on them? Honestly, the "policing our own" part doesn't work. All it does is lead to flame-wars that get threads closed. No one takes anyone else's opinions of them seriously.
Besides, 99%+ of the time, this is not anyone's first forum membership.
Unless there has been mass bans for flaming and trolling, threads like this should not exist. It is sufficient for there to be a locked/sticky at the top of the main board with READ FIRST and/or RULES OF CONDUCT.
This I completely agree with. It should be sufficient...should be. It appears it is not, but it should be.
That will make the sources of these problems go away, one at time, every time.
This action will be more effective than posts on etiquette that forumtrash will never even visit.
You do not lose out anything as they likely never had any posts worth while to read anyway.
:D
It's just a game. D&D is not "serious buisness." It's a game where jell-o cubes run rampant for Pete's sake.
Heehee, I'm with you there.
For me the actual ruleset being used doesn't matter as much to me as being immersed in the game and having fun, which (in my experience) has way more to do with the people you're playing with and the mindset you bring to the game than anything else.Speaking as a person with the "4E Avenger" thing in their sig, I just did it back when the flaming against it was really high, to show my support for the system, and left it there because I'm too lazy to remove it.
No need to justify yourself to me (or anyone), I was just pointing out that problems with tone have come from both "sides."
This Thread actually has nothing to do with who's been offended or personal vendettas, however. It has to do with the fact that people will respond differently depending on your tone, and we're discussing why and why it's important to use a fairly neutral tone. Your post, for instance, Spawn, is very aggressive, dismissive, not quite arrogant, but darn close. Due to the tone of your post (your arguments being so confrontational especially), most readers would more than likely consider your post to be composed entirely of opinion, and thus, completely irrelevant.
Well, the vast majority of posts here contain "mostly opinion", and that's not irrelevant if you come here to read other people's opinions.
"Mostly" and "Purely" are two very different things.
Everyone on this site shares in the responsibility for making it a respite from the troubles and stress in our daily lives rather than something that adds to them. The ONLY control you have in aiding or abetting this is what you type in the box before you hit submit. Think about what you're doing and remember that what you put out there always dictates what you get back.
Of course, I still wish I knew where some people lived...
I made that in hopes that people would see the message I'm saying and realise how stupid this edition war is.
Well, the vast majority of posts here contain "mostly opinion", and that's not irrelevant if you come here to read other people's opinions.
I mostly agree, but stating things this way ignores a useful qualification or two. I doubt anyone comes here to literally just read opinions. For example...
I think 4e sucks and so do all my friends. It's not a RPG and it's not fun. No more gnomes in D&D? Way to have no souls, Blizzards of the Coa$t!
I'm so glad 4e is out now and I don't have to play Dungeons & Formulas anymore. BTW, Why is Previous Editions still a forum now that we have 4wesomeness? Can't we ship these people off to Failfinder?
Poster A, if he is in the 4e boards, is clearly only logging in to make enemies. His opinion has no basis that people can even discuss (at least, without resorting to amateur psychology and/or personal attacks). Reading his opinion isn't valuable because he makes no attempt to be understood. At best, he provides us with some cruel laughs.
Poster B, if he is on the 4e boards, is somewhat belligerent but unlikely to single-handedly create a flame war. Still, his opinion has no more value than the first guy's: you either agree or disagree, but you can't find any content to think about in this post. If you're in the majority, you have nothing to say to this guy and nothing to learn from him. At best, he provides us with a sense that 4e is "winning".
If everyone posted like A or B, there would be nothing worth reading here. "I like this." "It sucks." "It rules." Sorry, but who cares?
Some opinions illuminate the games we play or why we play them. Sometimes a person's speculations can prove to be worth investigating or considering. Facts and figures aren't everything. But baseless opinions are pointless- this is a discussion forum, not an opinion poll (in fact, polls are not allowed!).
Damn.. ninjaed by Crimson Lancer.
Tone, schmone.
If a poster cops an attitude, a price will be paid. Expect to the community to either ignore them or call them out. We police our own.
Exactly my point. If a poster cops an attitude, he's going to draw angry responces. If the poster minds his tone, then he gets better responces, and can possibly start a disscussion.
Unless there has been mass bans for flaming and trolling, threads like this should not exist. It is sufficient for there to be a locked/sticky at the top of the main board with READ FIRST and/or RULES OF CONDUCT.
The fact that this thread does exist, and the fact that someone felt the need to create it should tell everyone that there are trolls about. A select few, maybe, but a few disruptive posters is all it takes to get an otherwise productive and interesting thread locked. That is very annoying, by the way.
If I read the OP correctly, this is a second thread on a similar situation. Why?
You have not read the OP correctly. The OP was basically a post I made in another thread, which I tend decided needed to be said to the community, because obviously, people have no idea that when you approach a random stranger basically slap them, that the random stanger has a right to be annoyed. Same thing on the forums, here. If people start flinging their poo, I'm going to get annoyed.
Is it really necessary to pull up a soapbox and start preaching to the general population? Have things degenerated that badly here? Have people forgotten how to /ignore other posters?
Well, apparently it is, because in a thread about how tone influences other posters responces to you, you've been very aggressive and almost arrogent. You've basically looked down your nose at this entire thread and scoffed at it, basically saying it's "pointless".
Things have degenerated that badly here. There are 2 posters (who I won't name) on these forums who reguarly disrupt threads and get them locked. Let's say the topic of disscussion in a thread is "I bought Module X, and I thought it was quite bad". There'll be a discussion for one or two (three if you're really lucky) before one of those posters comes in and says something along the lines of "4e is an inferior product". How is that, in any way, shape or form, helpful to the discussion? It doesn't add anything, and it is general trolling. That doesn't help a gets the thread locked.
"/ignore" doesn't work, unless the whole community does it.
It all boils down to me not liking 4e (for whatever reasons I wish), and those that like it don't like me because I don't like 4e... and am not scared to say so.
You would have some logical ground to stand on, were it not for Warweaver existing. The problem, therefore, can not be with which system you prefer. The problem is with your attitude, you're passive agressive name and signature and (here's the ironic one folks) the tone of your posts.
"Mostly" and "Purely" are two very different things.
My opinion is still what it is.
Having said that, one reason I don't "discuss" my opinions is that everything had already been put on the table during the early part of the Edition Wars. And I hate repeating myself a million times and reading the same responses a million times...
From what I've seen of your posts, they are very repetitive ("4e is awful!" "My group will never play 4e." and so on), so you don't actually mind repeating yourself. Further, you are posting here and probably reading what other people post. You seem to only want to be here so that someone (?) knows you don't like 4e or the people who play it. If I'm reading this right, you feel that you have nothing to gain from anyone here and no one has anything to gain from you. I have a hard time believing that's a good way to spend your free time.
Your assessment about me having nothing to gain from you all, and you all having nothing to gain from me, is probably fair... but haven't we all had at least a laugh or two?
Yes, we have. I personally find it hilarious that you honestly think that the reason people here dislike you is because you don't like the same game that we do, and you don't think it might be because you are an argumentative, stubborn, insulting, and completely unagreeable... oh, let's just say "individual".
PS, What I just posted above is an example of what should NOT be said on the forums. It does nothing but cause trouble, bickering, and makes the entire forum environment toxic. I had no right to say this, and should have restrained myself. I am leaving what I posted as an example of what can happen when posters do not show respect to eachother. I hope we can all learn form it.
And yes, I do have anger management problems.
And yes, I do have anger management problems.
You'd think that wouldn't be worrisome, cause he's a rust monster...1d3 damage on a bite tops. But you'd be wrong - when you make him mad, he hits you right where PCs hurt the most...in the lewt!
You'd think that wouldn't be worrisome, cause he's a rust monster...1d3 damage on a bite tops. But you'd be wrong - when you make him mad, he hits you right where PCs hurt the most...in the lewt!
Naw, I'm the varient type. I do 1d6 damage, and only cause temporary rust. Hey, I prefer getting my hands (or, rather, jaws) dirty.
The tentacles are for holding drinks, and, on occasion, bothering schoolgirls. But I am under court order to not discuss that further until my case has gone to trial.
^ Hilarious mental image
Clanky Fighters arn't the only things I make run away screaming in fear. ;)
There is one great thing that has come because of the edition wars: The Edition War.
Here here! Somewhere to take my agression out on all of you with fun and freiendly competition replacing bickering and hurt feelings.
There is one great thing that has come because of the edition wars: The Edition War.
Interesting.
Has anyone found the broken combos yet? :P
Interesting.
Has anyone found the broken combos yet? :P
Yes, I have.
I will not divulge or use any of them, because I want this thing to be fair and fun. I don't want to spawn a bunch of powergamers. :P
I will not divulge or use any of them, because I want this thing to be fair and fun. I don't want to spawn a bunch of powergamers.
Why, I like the cut of your jib, sir!
Why, I like the cut of your jib, sir!
I may act like a jerk on the forums, but if there is one thing about me that you can be sure of it is...
I.
Do.
Not.
Ever.
Cheat.
I may act like a jerk on the forums, but if there is one thing about me that you can be sure of it is...
I.
Do.
Not.
Ever.
Cheat.
Except for that one time, but you can't prove the golf ball wasn't about to go in before the groundskeeper started to set of the dynamite.
Yes, we have. I personally find it hilarious that you honestly think that the reason people here dislike you is because you don't like the same game that we do, and you don't think it might be because you are an argumentative, stubborn, insulting, and completely unagreeable... oh, let's just say "individual".
PS, What I just posted above is an example of what should NOT be said on the forums. It does nothing but cause trouble, bickering, and makes the entire forum environment toxic. I had no right to say this, and should have restrained myself. I am leaving what I posted as an example of what can happen when posters do not show respect to eachother. I hope we can all learn form it.
And yes, I do have anger management problems.
Rustmonster, there's been plenty of times that I've disagreed with your posts, or thought that your tone may have left some room for improvement, but this post is pure, unadulterated WIN. It's great to see such a good example of what not to post, along with the admission that it shouldn't have been posted :P A good sense of humor about this stuff is just what we need to help to cool the flames a bit.
To the OP: Great post. It's good to see some people acknowledging the importance of a civil tone on these forums finally. I almost gave up on coming here during the edition wars, and I managed to survive the 3.0/3.5 edition wars. The 3.5 to 4.0 war was just too flamey for my tastes, I saw too many atrocities from both sides of the conflict.
And, as always, Mudbunny, you're the voice of reason I've come to expect.
Keep up the good work man.Staying on-topic:
Where does it say anything about "tone" in the CoC?
And since this is the internet, how does one detect "tone"?
Couldn't confidence be mis-interpreted as smugness or vanity?
Oh, and where does it say in the CoC that ones has to "prove" ones opinion?!?!?
I don't think the OP's suggestion has anything to do with the CoC. Nor do I think it claims to.
The CoC is the bare minimum for these boards. The OP is merely stating a warning about how your post will be seen and treated by others based on its tone (and this being the internet, the only way to interpret tone is by the language used, since there is no inflection).
The OP involves things that anyone will realize about something they're about to post, given a few moments of honest reflection - the key is getting people to take that moment, rather than give into rage, nonsense, trolling, or the dreaded CAPS LOCK.
If you take that moment, and still obstinately (or lazily) engage in posts designed purely for their inflammatory content, you can well and truly identify yourself as a troll. So I think this thread has the most benefit for people who don't realize they're acting like one, or give in to "sometimes-trolling".
Fair enough...
To be honest, when I first came to these boards (oh so long ago under one of many guises I will go through), I came with a smile on my face and good intentions in my heart. To be involved with so many people playing D&D!! To be able to swap ideas and concepts, to share thoughts and ideas about a game we all play! I could barely contain myself... the bounds were limitless!!
Then I posted.
Not negatively, I just started posting my opinions and ideas.
Then came the smug, smart-alec, and "I know more/better than you" responses.
What? Really?
It was then my fall from grace started. I decided to fight fire with fire...
Now I am at the point you see me... desensitized, full of contempt, and with limbs that are strangely elongated and a greenish tint to my skin... ;)
Sounds like you should actually listen to the ORCs and take a month break or something to at least try to clear your head.
Having a differing opinion is fine and indeed helpful to find issues/problems that might otherwise be missed. Someone who dones't like 4e was pointing out problems with higher level play. I haven't played a high level character yet, but now know what to look for.
But that's where tone is very important. Discussions are just that- discussions. Give and take. Not rant fests or shouting matches. "I don't like x because.." gives the community something to work with. "4e sucks" does not.
It's fine if someone doesn't like new fluff. Personally, I like new fluff because it is new. We don't need the same dungeon that's been around for 30 years yet again. I've been there. Done that. Looted it so many times, the monsters don't bother to show up.
It's fine if someone doesn't like new fluff. Personally, I like new fluff because it is new. We don't need the same dungeon that's been around for 30 years yet again. I've been there. Done that. Looted it so many times, the monsters don't bother to show up.
I beleive in if it's not broke, you don't fix it logic myself. Just because it's new doesn't means it's good, it's just new.
I beleive in if it's not broke, you don't fix it logic myself. Just because it's new doesn't means it's good, it's just new.
In the same tone, just because it is old, doesn't mean that it is good.
Change isn't good.
Change isn't bad.
Change simply is.
It is up to the individual to look at the change and decide for themselves whether it is a good change or a bad change.
for all that win you just said.Mudbunny here's a
Damn, that guy ALWAYS wins! I think he's using cheat codes.
Damn, that guy ALWAYS wins! I think he's using cheat codes.
SPLOITS! SPLOITS! That rocketmomma
is using sploits!To quote Suicidal Tendencies...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not any good and just because you don't understand doesn't mean it don't make any sense...
And, to disagree with you, change can be good or it can be bad.
Good an bad are relatives. They aren't universal constants. What is bad for someone could be very good for another. The winner of the lottery dies before the paperwork is finished, so the next number up wins instead. Really bad for one person, a major windfall for another.
In the same tone, just because it is old, doesn't mean that it is good.
Change isn't good.
Change isn't bad.
Change simply is.
It is up to the individual to look at the change and decide for themselves whether it is a good change or a bad change.
Change can be good
Change can be bad
Change is to give a different course, direction or position.
I never said that because it has changed it was bad or good, I said that because it was new does not automatically mean something is good. I prefaced that by saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it. Meaning if it works or has worked why change it? This was not a question of whether or not the change was good or bad only to as why it was necessary.
I said that because it was new does not automatically mean something is good. I prefaced that by saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it. Meaning if it works or has worked why change it? This was not a question of whether or not the change was good or bad only to as why it was necessary.
Because they (whomever is making the change) think that they can make it better. They saw a deficiency or problem in the thing that they changed, so they changed it in a manner that they felt best removed that deficiency.
But what one person thinks is "better" others may not think so...
Which, as it so happens, what the point of his post.
Because they (whomever is making the change) think that they can make it better. They saw a deficiency or problem in the thing that they changed, so they changed it in a manner that they felt best removed that deficiency.
Not necessarily, change could be anything from adding new monsters to creating a whole other game system. That does not mean the old system was bad it means the new system is made to capture a new audience. It happens to many products. Take New Coke, New Coke was Coca-Cola’s way of strategically competing with Pepsi. Because it was new did not make it better just newer and soon was gone from shelves in less then a year.
But what one person thinks is "better" others may not think so...
Not necessarily, change could be anything from adding new monsters to creating a whole other game system. That does not mean the old system was bad it means the new system is made to capture a new audience. It happens to many products. Take New Coke, New Coke was Coca-Cola’s way of strategically competing with Pepsi. Because it was new did not make it better just newer and soon was gone from shelves in less then a year.
That is the risk that companies take when they change things. Sometimes the risk works out, sometimes it doesn't.
That is the risk that companies take when they change things. Sometimes the risk works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Exactly, I wasn’t attacking anything specific I was just pointing out that new does not always equal good.
Hey, I first came into this place with the best of intentions and an open mind...
But the attitudes of many posters really turned me off...
Obviously they didn't turn you off enough to leave.
Becoming part of the problem is only your own fault.
Or was rather.
Before you made the thread about you.
Yes, it is about tone.
Or was rather.
Before you made the thread about you.
I find this fascinating, if a person on the boards sets a negative tone, why not ignore that particular person? Isn’t responding to the inappropriate poster in fact causing the flame war?
If you have any other questions, please contact Customer Service
^ Hilarious mental image
Clanky Fighters arn't the only things I make run away screaming in fear. ;)
There is one great thing that has come because of the edition wars: The Edition War.
Here here! Somewhere to take my agression out on all of you with fun and freiendly competition replacing bickering and hurt feelings.
There is one great thing that has come because of the edition wars: The Edition War.
Interesting.
Has anyone found the broken combos yet? :P
Interesting.
Has anyone found the broken combos yet? :P
Yes, I have.
I will not divulge or use any of them, because I want this thing to be fair and fun. I don't want to spawn a bunch of powergamers. :P
I will not divulge or use any of them, because I want this thing to be fair and fun. I don't want to spawn a bunch of powergamers.
Why, I like the cut of your jib, sir!
Why, I like the cut of your jib, sir!
I may act like a jerk on the forums, but if there is one thing about me that you can be sure of it is...
I.
Do.
Not.
Ever.
Cheat.
I may act like a jerk on the forums, but if there is one thing about me that you can be sure of it is...
I.
Do.
Not.
Ever.
Cheat.
Except for that one time, but you can't prove the golf ball wasn't about to go in before the groundskeeper started to set of the dynamite.
Yes, we have. I personally find it hilarious that you honestly think that the reason people here dislike you is because you don't like the same game that we do, and you don't think it might be because you are an argumentative, stubborn, insulting, and completely unagreeable... oh, let's just say "individual".
PS, What I just posted above is an example of what should NOT be said on the forums. It does nothing but cause trouble, bickering, and makes the entire forum environment toxic. I had no right to say this, and should have restrained myself. I am leaving what I posted as an example of what can happen when posters do not show respect to eachother. I hope we can all learn form it.
And yes, I do have anger management problems.
Rustmonster, there's been plenty of times that I've disagreed with your posts, or thought that your tone may have left some room for improvement, but this post is pure, unadulterated WIN. It's great to see such a good example of what not to post, along with the admission that it shouldn't have been posted :P A good sense of humor about this stuff is just what we need to help to cool the flames a bit.
To the OP: Great post. It's good to see some people acknowledging the importance of a civil tone on these forums finally. I almost gave up on coming here during the edition wars, and I managed to survive the 3.0/3.5 edition wars. The 3.5 to 4.0 war was just too flamey for my tastes, I saw too many atrocities from both sides of the conflict.
And, as always, Mudbunny, you're the voice of reason I've come to expect.
Keep up the good work man.Staying on-topic:
Where does it say anything about "tone" in the CoC?
And since this is the internet, how does one detect "tone"?
Couldn't confidence be mis-interpreted as smugness or vanity?
Oh, and where does it say in the CoC that ones has to "prove" ones opinion?!?!?
I don't think the OP's suggestion has anything to do with the CoC. Nor do I think it claims to.
The CoC is the bare minimum for these boards. The OP is merely stating a warning about how your post will be seen and treated by others based on its tone (and this being the internet, the only way to interpret tone is by the language used, since there is no inflection).
The OP involves things that anyone will realize about something they're about to post, given a few moments of honest reflection - the key is getting people to take that moment, rather than give into rage, nonsense, trolling, or the dreaded CAPS LOCK.
If you take that moment, and still obstinately (or lazily) engage in posts designed purely for their inflammatory content, you can well and truly identify yourself as a troll. So I think this thread has the most benefit for people who don't realize they're acting like one, or give in to "sometimes-trolling".
Fair enough...
To be honest, when I first came to these boards (oh so long ago under one of many guises I will go through), I came with a smile on my face and good intentions in my heart. To be involved with so many people playing D&D!! To be able to swap ideas and concepts, to share thoughts and ideas about a game we all play! I could barely contain myself... the bounds were limitless!!
Then I posted.
Not negatively, I just started posting my opinions and ideas.
Then came the smug, smart-alec, and "I know more/better than you" responses.
What? Really?
It was then my fall from grace started. I decided to fight fire with fire...
Now I am at the point you see me... desensitized, full of contempt, and with limbs that are strangely elongated and a greenish tint to my skin... ;)
Sounds like you should actually listen to the ORCs and take a month break or something to at least try to clear your head.
Having a differing opinion is fine and indeed helpful to find issues/problems that might otherwise be missed. Someone who dones't like 4e was pointing out problems with higher level play. I haven't played a high level character yet, but now know what to look for.
But that's where tone is very important. Discussions are just that- discussions. Give and take. Not rant fests or shouting matches. "I don't like x because.." gives the community something to work with. "4e sucks" does not.
It's fine if someone doesn't like new fluff. Personally, I like new fluff because it is new. We don't need the same dungeon that's been around for 30 years yet again. I've been there. Done that. Looted it so many times, the monsters don't bother to show up.
It's fine if someone doesn't like new fluff. Personally, I like new fluff because it is new. We don't need the same dungeon that's been around for 30 years yet again. I've been there. Done that. Looted it so many times, the monsters don't bother to show up.
I beleive in if it's not broke, you don't fix it logic myself. Just because it's new doesn't means it's good, it's just new.
I beleive in if it's not broke, you don't fix it logic myself. Just because it's new doesn't means it's good, it's just new.
In the same tone, just because it is old, doesn't mean that it is good.
Change isn't good.
Change isn't bad.
Change simply is.
It is up to the individual to look at the change and decide for themselves whether it is a good change or a bad change.
for all that win you just said.Mudbunny here's a
Damn, that guy ALWAYS wins! I think he's using cheat codes.
Damn, that guy ALWAYS wins! I think he's using cheat codes.
SPLOITS! SPLOITS! That rocketmomma
is using sploits!To quote Suicidal Tendencies...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not any good and just because you don't understand doesn't mean it don't make any sense...
And, to disagree with you, change can be good or it can be bad.
Good an bad are relatives. They aren't universal constants. What is bad for someone could be very good for another. The winner of the lottery dies before the paperwork is finished, so the next number up wins instead. Really bad for one person, a major windfall for another.
In the same tone, just because it is old, doesn't mean that it is good.
Change isn't good.
Change isn't bad.
Change simply is.
It is up to the individual to look at the change and decide for themselves whether it is a good change or a bad change.
Change can be good
Change can be bad
Change is to give a different course, direction or position.
I never said that because it has changed it was bad or good, I said that because it was new does not automatically mean something is good. I prefaced that by saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it. Meaning if it works or has worked why change it? This was not a question of whether or not the change was good or bad only to as why it was necessary.
I said that because it was new does not automatically mean something is good. I prefaced that by saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it. Meaning if it works or has worked why change it? This was not a question of whether or not the change was good or bad only to as why it was necessary.
Because they (whomever is making the change) think that they can make it better. They saw a deficiency or problem in the thing that they changed, so they changed it in a manner that they felt best removed that deficiency.
But what one person thinks is "better" others may not think so...
Which, as it so happens, what the point of his post.
Because they (whomever is making the change) think that they can make it better. They saw a deficiency or problem in the thing that they changed, so they changed it in a manner that they felt best removed that deficiency.
Not necessarily, change could be anything from adding new monsters to creating a whole other game system. That does not mean the old system was bad it means the new system is made to capture a new audience. It happens to many products. Take New Coke, New Coke was Coca-Cola’s way of strategically competing with Pepsi. Because it was new did not make it better just newer and soon was gone from shelves in less then a year.
But what one person thinks is "better" others may not think so...
Not necessarily, change could be anything from adding new monsters to creating a whole other game system. That does not mean the old system was bad it means the new system is made to capture a new audience. It happens to many products. Take New Coke, New Coke was Coca-Cola’s way of strategically competing with Pepsi. Because it was new did not make it better just newer and soon was gone from shelves in less then a year.
That is the risk that companies take when they change things. Sometimes the risk works out, sometimes it doesn't.
That is the risk that companies take when they change things. Sometimes the risk works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Exactly, I wasn’t attacking anything specific I was just pointing out that new does not always equal good.
Hey, I first came into this place with the best of intentions and an open mind...
But the attitudes of many posters really turned me off...
Obviously they didn't turn you off enough to leave.
Becoming part of the problem is only your own fault.
Or was rather.
Before you made the thread about you.
Yes, it is about tone.
Or was rather.
Before you made the thread about you.
I find this fascinating, if a person on the boards sets a negative tone, why not ignore that particular person? Isn’t responding to the inappropriate poster in fact causing the flame war?
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