My question is, if people are routinely violating the CoC on certain boards, but are not violating the CoC on other boards, why not restrict them from posting on the boards where they routinely violate the CoC? To me, it seems like a pretty straightforward solution.
Now some might ask how might something like this be implemented? Well, from what I understand, every person who posts on the WotC messageboards is placed into a group that allows them to view, and/or post on certain forums. For example,the moderators have their own forums and messageboards that cannot be viewed or accessed by the rest of the community (or at least, I'm assuming they do, since sometimes, threads get moved and when I click on them, it says that I can't view that particular board. Also, on the VCL messageboard, only certain posters are allowed to post, while the rest of the community can only read the posts that are left there. Given that this is the case, I'm wondering why the moderators couldn't simply create groups that restrict people from posting on certain boards/forums if they routinely violate the CoC. For example, if someone is routinely violating the CoC in the Forgotten Realms forum, then create a group for that person to restrict them from posting there. Then, if someone else comes along and does the same thing, that person could simply be added to the existing group.
Now I understand that this may be problematic if people are routinely violating the CoC on multiple boards in multiple forums, and in that case, I think it would be better if they were just banned altogether. However, if they're only violating the CoC on one board or one forum, then I think this might be a viable solution, while still allowing them access to the rest of the messageboards. Thoughts?
Edit: I mention this idea because it seems like the moderators are reluctant to ban people entirely from the messageboards for violations of the CoC. Given that this is the case, I thought that this might be a viable, alternative solution to complete bans, while still preventing the trolls from overrunning a board.
We'd be infringing on the rights of the little eskimo peoples in Malasiatica.
Seriously though, I don't think it'd work.
It is far too time-consuming. You'd have red-tape and legislation over why they wouldn't just start trolling on the boards they're "fine" on. And then everyone who was ****** off about the reorganization of the mature forums would go bat **** crazy because WotC and Gleemax couldn't do that to keep the mature forums.
I don't know what's worse. The trolling, or people like the OP who take the bait every time.
If anything, the rules should be loosely enforced. Get rid of the people who are obviously trolling, and idiots who won't take the time to at least attempt to use proper grammar and spelling.
But, seriously: these are forums. Forums were meant for discussion. I like 4E, probably just as much as I did 3.x. Another poster might disagree with me, saying 4E just doesn't work for him. There is no legitimate reason why he (or she) and I can't have a reasonable discussion about why we like or dislike certain features.
Sure, sometimes other people like to chime in with obvious troll attempts, and flaming. Ban them, and the problem is solved. Don't penalize the people who attempt to make rational discussions by shutting down threads on certain topics.
And personally, I don't have a problem with people that want to make reasonable disagreements. However, when people start getting insulting, and when they start posting inflammatory posts on a messageboard or forum for no other reason than to upset people, they've crossed a line, and I think they should be banned from posting there.
Finally, if they're just going to take their nonsense to some other board, then I think having them in a group like this would make it much easier to identify them as recurring, problem posters, and would make it much easier for the moderators to determine if the poster needs to be banned for good.
That said, I don't want to spend a lot of time trying to debate why this is or is not a good idea. I just thought I'd throw the idea out there, and see what people thought.
For example, Lord Karsus mentioned recently that there was one poster whose comments on the Forgotten Realms forum were completely disruptive and trolling. Yet, the person's posts on other messageboards have been completely fine.
-How do you know what posts this person has been making on other message boards? The mentioned person has had his...6th name banned (permanently, I presume), and hasn't showed back up, anyway.
If anything, the rules should be loosely enforced. Get rid of the people who are obviously trolling, and idiots who won't take the time to at least attempt to use proper grammar and spelling.
-The people who do the trolling, but don't do the above, are the worst ones. The theoretical mob capo di tutti capi, that you know is up to no good, but you can't get anything too concrete to lock 'em up. And, note that a lot of people don't speak English as their native language, so their posts will have spelling/grammar errors caused by their lack of mastery of English.
-Another idea I just had, related to this (but, again, would make work harder for the board moderators) would be to give all new accounts a "trial period". Their first...fifty posts, let say, or something to that effect, need to be "cleared" by moderators, or something like that. That stops trolls from doing trollish things, and then making brand new account names, and continuing where they left off. Maybe not the best, most effective solution, but something's better than nothing.
Of course, the efficacy of it is questionable. If someone is getting their kicks by trolling on one board but don't do much else on other boards, then if they get banned from that one board, I imagine they'll just make a new account anyway, and then we're back to 'ban and they make a new account' except that they have an older account that can still chat it up elsewhere.
As for more work for the mods... I hope they have some sort of system of tracking complaints and infractions made by a poster. And if they already have a way to track problem posters then I don't think it would be too much more work for them to say "Bob Blow has been a pain in the bum on Board X, but an ok bloke everywhere else. Put him in the 'banned from Board X' group"
That is, of course, assuming the moderators have the appropriate privledges to change the group someone is in, and to create new groups as necessary. If they don't have those privileges then they might have to pass the buck on up the chain of command.
So... all-in-all, I think it's an interesting idea, and it mostly depends on just how the boards are set up for whether or not it's something the mods could do themselves or if they would have to pass it on up. The efficacy of it, however... well, who can predict the human mind? Not me, that's for sure.
Whether it can be done technically, I think it's a bad idea. If someone violates the Code of Conduct they should get warnings and then a ban and then an IP ban. You shouldn't get to space out your violations by spamming one forum at a time.
A great response, but that still assumes Moderators are always on the ball.
That every single post is checked for context and any violations, and as we all know, perfection being impossible, Moderators may slip up every once in a while, they may miss a post, or they simply may be thinking too subjectively. At which point, the road to Hell has all ready been outlined.
So then additional methods should be added; highly unlikely, costly, and time-consuming; like allowing the posters to write feedback about a violator's post.
But that still follows the same logic that everything works perfectly. In reality, many posters could write bad feedback about me because I am a troll, and the moderators would be given the final say and I wouldn't be punished. Likewise I could write a great dissertation on the abuse of power by the moderators in the general forum, get good feedback, and be banned by the moderators because of the final say.
What then has to happen is a kind of happy-medium. But this is Gleemax, not a democracy.
A great response, but that still assumes Moderators are always on the ball.
Actually, I think the OP assumes the moderators have some sort of omniscience. I certainly did not.
I'm not saying moderation is perfect, but all the more reason not to be lenient when trolls are caught trolling.
-It's really ridiculous. I don't know how many report posts I've submitted, and I don't know how many reports to Customer Service I've put in...
There is some sort of mod that is alleged to work on vBulletin that would allow from banning individuals from certain forums but.....
With the forums/database stability of late, and getting the database ready for the hack, AND it not being official, I would not suggest adding it, at this time, to WotC.
Maybe someone should suggest this feature to Jelsoft?
Someone is attacking Forgotten Realms? Damn those Zhentarim!
-I wish it were the Zhents. They're easy enough to defeat. ;)
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Given that this is the case, I'm wondering why the moderators couldn't simply create groups that restrict people from posting on certain boards/forums if they routinely violate the CoC.
I suggest you do the math on how many groups would have to be created for this to work. You're talking 1,000+ different user groups.
To restrict access to a forum, the current software works by adding people who need to have access to that forum to a group that is allowed access to the forum.
For Example, the DDI Announcements forum.
A new group was created consisting of myself, my News Guides, as well as a couple of VCLs that I have asked act as back-ups when I am on vacation. It is doable for a small group, but to do it for a very large group of people would be very difficult, as the additions and subtractions to these groups need to be done manually.
The sheer volume of possible groups that would be required to be created for all of the various permutations of forum bannings would be huge and extremely unwieldy.
If someone is enough of a troll to be removed from one section, they need to be removed from the forums entirely. Not that the moderation policies around here really allow for that sort of thing, but there's no reason to assume that poster X was just being a tool because of the section he was posting in. Trolls troll, regardless of forum.
So, what you're saying is, "a troll by any other name..."
So, what you're saying is, "a troll by any other name..."
A troll by any other screenname, in any section of the forums, is still a troll.
It's not exactly Shakespeare, but it works. ;)
Otherwise I, sadly, see these types of threads as a waste of space. I'm not tracing the idea, I'd like to see it beefed up, but will it be if we ask?
So what can be done to changes thing? Asking load enough or as many times as it takes to get WotC to change there coc?
Otherwise I, sadly, see these types of threads as a waste of space. I'm not tracing the idea, I'd like to see it beefed up, but will it be if we ask?
I think the CoC needs to simply read less like a legal document and more something usable by the common user. That would go a long way to change things. When the moderators, administrators, WotC personnel, and average users all understand it, then there would be better grounds for knowing what is going on.
Then you just need clear defined places where threads belong rather than guessing and the forums might just work 1000% better.
Until mods, admins, users are all on the same page, the forums are doomed no matter what.
The past year, from what I understand, with the D&D forums worth of happenings is the same things that caused Games Workshop to close down its forums.
It can then be toggled as a moderator/admin action within the forum, or on the admin user panel.
Remarkable, and a case for an IP ban if ever there was one. I do wish that those bans could become implemented with select cases.
Unfortunately, your guy is going to have to get in line.
General discussion has so many trolls that they've started working in shifts.
Unfortunately, your guy is going to have to get in line.
General discussion has so many trolls that they've started working in shifts.
Of course by Troll you mean, just like Phil Elmore, anyone who disagrees with you.
Of course by Troll you mean, just like Phil Elmore, anyone who disagrees with you.
Ah yes, the famous defence.
Lay off the paranoia.
There *is* trolls. Remmember, Karsus is an anti, yet....
Ah yes, the famous defence.
Lay off the paranoia.
There *is* trolls. Remmember, Karsus is an anti, yet....
Paranoia? I am not the one who thinks we need an inquisition to get rid of the "trolls" around here.
Paranoia? I am not the one who thinks we need an inquisition to get rid of the "trolls" around here.
His flogging and burning of the trolls. The inquisition is sooo.., DnD.., Medieval.
I say why stop with trolls, there are 4e witches and 3e heretics abound as well.
An inquisition sounds like a lot of fun. As long as we're the ones inquisiting and not being inquisited.
The inquisition what a show!
HEHEHEHEH!!!!
His flogging and burning of the trolls. The inquisition is sooo.., DnD.., Medieval.
I say why stop with trolls, there are 4e witches and 3e heretics abound as well.
An inquisition sounds like a lot of fun. As long as we're the ones inquisiting and not being inquisited.
The inquisition what a show!
HEHEHEHEH!!!!
Yes, but nobody is the only one who would expect the spanish inquisition. Surprisingly, nobody is perfect and yet nobody is going to die...
Moderation is inquisition now. Cute.
Well, you can only call them Nazis so many times before it loses it's impact.
Well, you can only call them Nazis so many times before it loses it's impact.
An inquisition sounds like a lot of fun. As long as we're the ones inquisiting and not being inquisited.
I swear, if anyone puts "4e Melenge" in their sig, I give up on this board.:surrender
Paranoia? I am not the one who thinks we need an inquisition to get rid of the "trolls" around here.
Dude, it's the internet. It's where things like 4chan and Anonymous came from.
Seriously though, I don't think it'd work.
It is far too time-consuming.
I think it'd take the same amount of time as the current moderating situation is, but it doesn't matter. They could just get a new account, these accounts are free. Just make an alias, establish a mail address or use another. If someone really, really wants to post on these boards, they really, really get to.
Moderation is inquisition now. Cute.
No, but I had a WizO remove a quote from a post for (continuity), except by removing the quote, the following sentence made no sense. So, I only trust the mods to go after people who are threatening murder or s/g. Nuance isn't a strong point for some.
So because one sentence you wrote made no sense,
No, what I wrote made total sense. What the mod did to the post changed it to have no context. Tell me when you understand what I wrote then rephrase your question and I'll consider it.
Now stop beating your chest and either reply like a person or ignore.
I'm not going to get into some macho stand off with you for whateve reason you're trying to start one. You know what I meant and in the extreme case you don't, I meant that due to a small change, your post *now* makes no sense.
Now stop beating your chest and either reply like a person or ignore.
I endorse this request. It happens to everyone, calm down.