It seems that the ORCS are on a deleting post rampage, and there's no explanation for it. This has been happening numerous times, and is there a way so that you guys (the ORCS) can actually tell us what the heck is going on?
ORCs do not delete posts without leaving a message explaining why.
However, they may move a thread, and unfortunately, there is no way to leave a 'shadow' thread as there was before teh latest round of forum upgrades.
You may want to check the VCL request thread in the Wizards Community>VCL Coordination section, to see if the thread you want has been requested for removal there.
When a thread is deleted, there's no way to leave a message on the deleted thread, because it's... well... deleted.
AsmodeusLore is correct, though. Thread moves don't leave re-directs.
@asmodeus: this is not true. ORCs do NOT always give you a reason why they did various stuff. Most of the time it's because it was (or rather should be obvious) what the offense was, and sometimes there's just no time or place (thread deletion) for them to do so.
i got at least two posts deleted which were neither commented nor i got a mail for, which was pretty disturbing to me at that time. (and no, it was not due to thread-movage)
And they didn't leave a message in the VCL coordination thread either?
Unusual.
When a thread is deleted, there's no way to leave a message on the deleted thread, because it's... well... deleted.
AsmodeusLore is correct, though. Thread moves don't leave re-directs.
I've not heard of an entire thread being deleted, save for spam. I thought this guy was asking about an individual post being deleted though.
And they didn't leave a message in the VCL coordination thread either?
Unusual.
Asking for posts to be deleted is not something that is within the powers granted to VCLs.
there was just at least an entire reply (along the removal of large parts of my own post) removed from one of the image threads because i wrote that the stuff i mention in there would be illegal. HOW "§$"%&§/( up can you interpret the CoC that you can remove the entire post instead of just editing out whatever seemed like an instruction?
also, what's illegal in the sentence "find some other artists you like and use their stuff instead" ?
i'd really like to give my feedback directly to ORC_WYVERN, but really - the questionnaire in their email does not work, and i get linked back to my account page when i try to do "To access your question from our support site, click here."
and this is part of my official gripe: it feels like a very bad way of moderation if you only look at the content word by word, instead of the context. We were actually discussing there how and why it's bad for WOTC to drop galleries... and not how to circumvent their paywall, which probably every 10 year old can do a lot better than me nowadays.
(thread in question: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... - i figure that at least one, more likely 3 posts are missing there.) This happening 4 days after the original post is not that encouraging either.
Whenever you post content and it's removed, you should always receive an email listing what was removed, and why. Generally, this happens without fail whenever content is removed because it's in violation of our Code of Conduct or Terms or Use.
There is a time when you aren't notified that content has been deleted, and this happens when you reply to something that was a violation that we removed. If Joe Poster puts up an inappropriate picture, and you respond to that picture, when we remove the picture your comment would be removed for continuity. This can be frustrating at times, we understand, and we do try to avoid having to do this whenever possible by editing out bits that refer to deleted posts solely, but it is unavoidable at times.
We cannot address specific incidents in public areas. If you have a question about why a piece of specific content was removed and you received an email about it, reply to the email and we will try to explain to you why it was removed, although we obviously can't promise that everyone will leave such a conversation agreeing with everyone else 
If you did not receive an email, we can still try to assist you if you contact us with as much information as possible, but the reality of the situation is that our Privacy Policy may prevent us from explaining much other than the fact that it was removed in an effort to maintain continuity. Posts removed in this manner do *not* act as negative marks on anyone's account.
The conduct process can be a difficult one to work with, and admittedly frustrating at times to be involved with. Since the process cannot be made to both function and be completely transparent, this is unlikely to ever change completely. That said, we do go through a lot of effort to try and minimize this impact on the community, and although I can't go into specifics, looking at where we were a year ago, and where we are today, we are making, and continuing to make, progress in this area.
It does not happen without fail. I recently had a post obliterated and was not informed why. It was not quoting or referencing any post at all, either. It was a stand-alone deal. And, as far as I know, it didn't violate the CoC in any way. And, if it did, I have no idea how it did as I was never told why it was removed.
It may be that not every ORC follows the rules to the letter. I understand that things can get hectic at times and that things can get forgotten, but I also feel that it is important to point out that these notifications are not always sent. It's nice to see what's supposed to be done - it is. But what's supposed to be done and what's happening are two different things. There is still room for improvement.
We have processes in place to help ensure that this doesn't happen. With that said, this is a process where a lot of information is involved, and there is of course a human element. Mistakes can and do happen occasionally, but they are very rare, and when they are made, we would love for you to write us so we can help make sure they happen even less.
I do want to highlight that there are a few other reasons that posts may be deleted that don't have anything to do with the Code of Conduct or the Terms of Use. The most common item we see confusion on involves personal groups and forums; here, the owner of the page may remove any content they wish to.
Well, this'n was in a standard forum. No group stuff. My stuff typically isn't deleted so I'm not sure how 'rare' an event the lack of explanation was. If it happens again, I'll be sure to mention it.
In a thread a while ago there was a poster asking as a side question if anyone knew a good torrent for 4E . Several people (including me) responded telling the person that was not allowed on these forums as well as answering the OP's question (the one the thread was about, not the one about torrents). The OP and anyone responding to the torrent question's posts were edited to remove the offending material. However, no ORC let us know they edited anything in the thread.
So, no. ORCs do not always leave a tag that they edited posts.
...the latest round of forum upgrades.
Removing features and introducing bugs is not a forum upgrade its a downgrade.
In a thread a while ago there was a poster asking as a side question if anyone knew a good torrent for 4E . Several people (including me) responded telling the person that was not allowed on these forums as well as answering the OP's question (the one the thread was about, not the one about torrents). The OP and anyone responding to the torrent question's posts were edited to remove the offending material. However, no ORC let us know they edited anything in the thread.
So, no. ORCs do not always leave a tag that they edited posts.
As was said upthread - if "JoeUser" posts something inapproriate and you reply to it - your post may be removed with Joe's post to preserve thread continuity.
In that case you would not receive a notice because you didn't violate the CoC.
For reference:
There is a time when you aren't notified that content has been deleted, and this happens when you reply to something that was a violation that we removed. If Joe Poster puts up an inappropriate picture, and you respond to that picture, when we remove the picture your comment would be removed for continuity. This can be frustrating at times, we understand, and we do try to avoid having to do this whenever possible by editing out bits that refer to deleted posts solely, but it is unavoidable at times.
Since the process cannot be made to both function and be completely transparent [...]
Why can't the process be made to be transparent?
Not all processes are for public consumption. For example, do you know how your bank adds money to your account? Do you know the passwords and software program? Do you know every proceedure your bank has? Probably not.
Same goes with most processes and proceedures in every business there is.
There are processes that can't be made public for various reasons, and can't be disclosed as well. A retail store isn't going to make public the proceedure for making bank deposits, for example. They're not going to let the public know they even have a proceedure.
It's a situation similar, not a match to, that example.
Not all processes are for public consumption. For example, do you know how your bank adds money to your account? Do you know the passwords and software program? Do you know every proceedure your bank has? Probably not.
Same goes with most processes and proceedures in every business there is.
There are processes that can't be made public for various reasons, and can't be disclosed as well. A retail store isn't going to make public the proceedure for making bank deposits, for example. They're not going to let the public know they even have a proceedure.
It's a situation similar, not a match to, that example.
Your example is flawed. Because we see the effects of the situation, we should be notified of those effects.
A simple "A post from JoePoster and a post from MoePoster have been removed because JoePoster's post violated the CoC. MoePosters post was removed because it replyed to JoePosters post and for continuity." would be sufficient.
Is that so hard?
Actually, yes. Because people would use it as a tally.
"Oh, looks like webster violated the Code of Conduct again. That's three strikes. He should be banned."
All such tracking is not for public consumption and kept private.
Well i know of certian individuals out there who jump on anything they deem even the slighest offensive. For instance if you compair thier arguments on alignments to say the people who try to ge away with things base on thier lawful or chaotic stupid alignment. (Something I feel is a common enough term that it should be understood and not triggering the 'personal attack!' defense so many people are just so ready to use. Even when its not them.)
Not all processes are for public consumption. For example, do you know how your bank adds money to your account? Do you know the passwords and software program? Do you know every proceedure your bank has? Probably not.
you're comparing eggs to apples. the method how the bank adds money is hidden to me, not of necessity, but because i really need not know. what they do hide is INTERNALS. They perfectly and clearly list every cause for what they do. Your above statement is like saying you need not know why a bank deducted money. There's no need to know where the adminscripts and what the passwords are, but you really want to know why there was any transaction. And it's the same here. I've got no need for showing me internal lists, guidelines or whatever. But when my post is edited, removed or moved, i want to know how, when and whereto.
you'd switch your bank if they hid that information from you. you can't switch community pages as easily as there are usually a lot less of them.
Well i know of certian individuals out there who jump on anything they deem even the slighest offensive.
Welcome to the forums!
I second this!
Actually, yes. Because people would use it as a tally.
"Oh, looks like webster violated the Code of Conduct again. That's three strikes. He should be banned."
All such tracking is not for public consumption and kept private.
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.
Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
...the latest round of forum upgrades.Removing features and introducing bugs is not a forum upgrade its a downgrade.
It is more of a sidegrade...it added features and fixed bugs...but also removed features and introed bugss...I think over all this is better becuse they are working on it...but over all it is not yet an upgrade I agree
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.
Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
I wouldn't say I am "proud" of my rides on the banned wagon, but I don't make a big secret out of having been banned either... especially if I think it was for a ridiculous reason (as most of them are)...
not to call you out, but in general I tthink that type of talk should be made agaisnt COC...I mean really what good comes from saying "I beat being baned..."
I wouldn't say I am "proud" of my rides on the banned wagon, but I don't make a big secret out of having been banned either... especially if I think it was for a ridiculous reason (as most of them are)...
Then you're not the kind of person I'm talking about (though others may or may not agree - I don't, personally, know you from Adam).
Rest assured there ARE people who wear their bans with pride, and drawing MORE attention to such attention seekers only feeds into their actions.
@wolfstar: what you're presenting here sounds very much like an excuse. Telling people why or what or where their posts got edited/moved, does not equate making everything publicly visible. The Bantroll (in lack of a better name) seems very much like a strawman in this regard to me. There are quite some areas where currently people do not know what happened to their posts (moves), or don't get notified (subsequent edits) - and this causes intransparency between wotc and those specific users. as i already stated above, wotc does not need to be transparent to everyone or everywhere, but when it concerns you personally, you should be able to get full disclosure, and not just on request - but everytime something happens. to go back to websters example, imagine a bank that only tells you your balance when you request a payment that could not be made due to being in the negatives.
My tuppenceworth:
If somebody's post is edited or deleted (including if the whole thread is deleted) for any reason, they should be informed of that reason. It's just common courtesy.
If the edit or deletion is due to somebody else's CoC violation, then obviously it's not necessary to name names and violate any other poster's privacy. The following explanation, sent by PM or email, would be quite adequate, IMO:
Your post (post number) in the thread "Obvious Flamebait Thread!!!1!eleven!!" has been edited/deleted for continuity due to a CoC violation by another poster in that thread. Please be assured that this is not the result of any wrongdoing on your part. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. If you have any comments or questions concerning this action, please contact us at (contact details).
Or, if the whole thread had to be euthanized:
We have deleted the thread "Obvious Flamebait Thread!!!1!eleven!!", in which you have posted, due to CoC violations by other posters. Please be assured that this is not the result of any wrongdoing on your part. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. If you have any comments or questions concerning this action, please contact us at (contact details).
Hell, you could even leave out the "due to a CoC violation by another poster in that thread" if you think that's too close to publically reprimanding the original violator, although anyone who's had their post edited "for continuity" could probably figure that bit out for themselves (since they presumably remember who they were replying to in the section of their post that got cut).
Having served as a moderator on other forums, this seems like fairly no-brainer stuff to me.
Actually, yes. Because people would use it as a tally."Oh, looks like webster violated the Code of Conduct again. That's three strikes. He should be banned."
All such tracking is not for public consumption and kept private.
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
We've had posters do that. One who's accounts that I will not mention took pleasure is sending e-mails to people that he was "communicating" with the names of his previous accounts and the the number of temperary bans he had accumulated under he active sock puppet account while proclaiming his innocence on the forums and claiming that people where just out to get him.
So the current system doesn't prevent this. In fact when the pop up again repeating the cycle of trolling you cannot tell people that they are have done without being moderated, so it even protects them while they troll.
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
Join the club.
I made a post in the "Stickin it to the man" thread that got deleted and never got a reson as to why. I first checked my e-mail to see if I got an explanation as usual, but there was nothing there. Then I even posted a request in the thread asking that the ORC that deleted my post send me an e-mail with an explanation and what specific CoC violation I violated. I even said "please". Still no response.
Usually I know why a post of mine gets deleted, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I did wrong in that "Stickin' it to the man" thread...
I believe a lot of it boils down to some people are rather more sensitive than others and easily offended. Indeed, it is my opinion that some even actively look for things to try to get offended by.
Hey! I'm offended by your post. I don't actively look for things to be offended by. I simply open up the WotC community site. That's usually enough for me.
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
Join the club.
I made a post in the "Stickin it to the man" thread that got deleted and never got a reson as to why. I first checked my e-mail to see if I got an explanation as usual, but there was nothing there. Then I even posted a request in the thread asking that the ORC that deleted my post send me an e-mail with an explanation and what specific CoC violation I violated. I even said "please". Still no response.
Usually I know why a post of mine gets deleted, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I did wrong in that "Stickin' it to the man" thread...
I believe a lot of it boils down to some people are rather more sensitive than others and easily offended. Indeed, it is my opinion that some even actively look for things to try to get offended by.
Although they may occasionally look around, as a general rule the ORCs don't read threads unless something is reported. Did you report your own post that asked why your other was deleted? 
That might have worked because then it would have been read and you might have received an email explanation.
A better option would probably be to use the "email us" option under the report conduct choice. You can then ask for a notification since you were supposed toget one and didn't receive it. That might work.
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
Join the club.
I made a post in the "Stickin it to the man" thread that got deleted and never got a reson as to why. I first checked my e-mail to see if I got an explanation as usual, but there was nothing there. Then I even posted a request in the thread asking that the ORC that deleted my post send me an e-mail with an explanation and what specific CoC violation I violated. I even said "please". Still no response.
Usually I know why a post of mine gets deleted, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I did wrong in that "Stickin' it to the man" thread...
I believe a lot of it boils down to some people are rather more sensitive than others and easily offended. Indeed, it is my opinion that some even actively look for things to try to get offended by.
Although they may occasionally look around, as a general rule the ORCs don't read threads unless something is reported. Did you report your own post that asked why your other was deleted? That might have worked because then it would have been read and you might have received an email explanation.
A better option would probably be to use the "email us" option under the report conduct choice. You can then ask for a notification since you were supposed toget one and didn't receive it. That might work.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.
If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'm wondering why they don't make a script that will fix it for every account and run it on a weekend about 3:00am or something. Its not like its difficult.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'm wondering why they don't make a script that will fix it for every account and run it on a weekend about 3:00am or something. Its not like its difficult.
My guess is that its an issue that cannot be fixed like what you are suggesting in your guess. and since it seems to be quite sporadic random its not a prevalent issue. or at least they dont want to screw up even more people who are already working fine.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'm wondering why they don't make a script that will fix it for every account and run it on a weekend about 3:00am or something. Its not like its difficult.
My guess is that its an issue that cannot be fixed like what you are suggesting in your guess. and since it seems to be quite sporadic random its not a prevalent issue. or at least they dont want to screw up even more people who are already working fine.
The only way that would be true is if the whole community site was a very badly designed, and badly implemented and meant to only be used by MMO players while their game servers were down.
I think we have a winner!
The only way that would be true is if the whole community site was a very badly designed, and badly implemented and meant to only be used by MMO players while their game servers were down.
The transfer of accounts from one system to another damaged some of them.
That has to do with the immigration process rather than this site.
Also the MMO comment is uncalled for.
The only way that would be true is if the whole community site was a very badly designed, and badly implemented and meant to only be used by MMO players while their game servers were down.
The transfer of accounts from one system to another damaged some of them.
That has to do with the immigration process rather than this site.
Also the MMO comment is uncalled for.
Actually the MMO comment was called for. If you go to Onesite and read up on them, they mainly work with video games and MMOs. Their system wasn't really meant for a dedicated community like this one where everyone uses it all the time.
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.
Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
I wouldn't say I am "proud" of my rides on the banned wagon, but I don't make a big secret out of having been banned either... especially if I think it was for a ridiculous reason (as most of them are)...
All of them are for Code of Conduct violations.
Also the MMO comment is uncalled for.
Actually the MMO comment was called for.
No it was an Appeal to Ridicule. That sort of thing is always uncalled for.
If you go to Onesite and read up on them, they mainly work with video games and MMOs. Their system wasn't really meant for a dedicated community like this one where everyone uses it all the time.
Onesite did not design the Customer Service site, instead it is the same site as before the forum transfer. So not only did you just try a Package Deal Fallacy, you failed to properly invoke it.
ORCs do not delete posts without leaving a message explaining why.
However, they may move a thread, and unfortunately, there is no way to leave a 'shadow' thread as there was before teh latest round of forum upgrades.
You may want to check the VCL request thread in the Wizards Community>VCL Coordination section, to see if the thread you want has been requested for removal there.
When a thread is deleted, there's no way to leave a message on the deleted thread, because it's... well... deleted.
AsmodeusLore is correct, though. Thread moves don't leave re-directs.
@asmodeus: this is not true. ORCs do NOT always give you a reason why they did various stuff. Most of the time it's because it was (or rather should be obvious) what the offense was, and sometimes there's just no time or place (thread deletion) for them to do so.
i got at least two posts deleted which were neither commented nor i got a mail for, which was pretty disturbing to me at that time. (and no, it was not due to thread-movage)
And they didn't leave a message in the VCL coordination thread either?
Unusual.
When a thread is deleted, there's no way to leave a message on the deleted thread, because it's... well... deleted.
AsmodeusLore is correct, though. Thread moves don't leave re-directs.
I've not heard of an entire thread being deleted, save for spam. I thought this guy was asking about an individual post being deleted though.
And they didn't leave a message in the VCL coordination thread either?
Unusual.
Asking for posts to be deleted is not something that is within the powers granted to VCLs.
there was just at least an entire reply (along the removal of large parts of my own post) removed from one of the image threads because i wrote that the stuff i mention in there would be illegal. HOW "§$"%&§/( up can you interpret the CoC that you can remove the entire post instead of just editing out whatever seemed like an instruction?
also, what's illegal in the sentence "find some other artists you like and use their stuff instead" ?
i'd really like to give my feedback directly to ORC_WYVERN, but really - the questionnaire in their email does not work, and i get linked back to my account page when i try to do "To access your question from our support site, click here."
and this is part of my official gripe: it feels like a very bad way of moderation if you only look at the content word by word, instead of the context. We were actually discussing there how and why it's bad for WOTC to drop galleries... and not how to circumvent their paywall, which probably every 10 year old can do a lot better than me nowadays.
(thread in question: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... - i figure that at least one, more likely 3 posts are missing there.) This happening 4 days after the original post is not that encouraging either.
Whenever you post content and it's removed, you should always receive an email listing what was removed, and why. Generally, this happens without fail whenever content is removed because it's in violation of our Code of Conduct or Terms or Use.
There is a time when you aren't notified that content has been deleted, and this happens when you reply to something that was a violation that we removed. If Joe Poster puts up an inappropriate picture, and you respond to that picture, when we remove the picture your comment would be removed for continuity. This can be frustrating at times, we understand, and we do try to avoid having to do this whenever possible by editing out bits that refer to deleted posts solely, but it is unavoidable at times.
We cannot address specific incidents in public areas. If you have a question about why a piece of specific content was removed and you received an email about it, reply to the email and we will try to explain to you why it was removed, although we obviously can't promise that everyone will leave such a conversation agreeing with everyone else If you did not receive an email, we can still try to assist you if you contact us with as much information as possible, but the reality of the situation is that our Privacy Policy may prevent us from explaining much other than the fact that it was removed in an effort to maintain continuity. Posts removed in this manner do *not* act as negative marks on anyone's account.
The conduct process can be a difficult one to work with, and admittedly frustrating at times to be involved with. Since the process cannot be made to both function and be completely transparent, this is unlikely to ever change completely. That said, we do go through a lot of effort to try and minimize this impact on the community, and although I can't go into specifics, looking at where we were a year ago, and where we are today, we are making, and continuing to make, progress in this area.
It does not happen without fail. I recently had a post obliterated and was not informed why. It was not quoting or referencing any post at all, either. It was a stand-alone deal. And, as far as I know, it didn't violate the CoC in any way. And, if it did, I have no idea how it did as I was never told why it was removed.
It may be that not every ORC follows the rules to the letter. I understand that things can get hectic at times and that things can get forgotten, but I also feel that it is important to point out that these notifications are not always sent. It's nice to see what's supposed to be done - it is. But what's supposed to be done and what's happening are two different things. There is still room for improvement.
We have processes in place to help ensure that this doesn't happen. With that said, this is a process where a lot of information is involved, and there is of course a human element. Mistakes can and do happen occasionally, but they are very rare, and when they are made, we would love for you to write us so we can help make sure they happen even less.
I do want to highlight that there are a few other reasons that posts may be deleted that don't have anything to do with the Code of Conduct or the Terms of Use. The most common item we see confusion on involves personal groups and forums; here, the owner of the page may remove any content they wish to.
Well, this'n was in a standard forum. No group stuff. My stuff typically isn't deleted so I'm not sure how 'rare' an event the lack of explanation was. If it happens again, I'll be sure to mention it.
In a thread a while ago there was a poster asking as a side question if anyone knew a good torrent for 4E . Several people (including me) responded telling the person that was not allowed on these forums as well as answering the OP's question (the one the thread was about, not the one about torrents). The OP and anyone responding to the torrent question's posts were edited to remove the offending material. However, no ORC let us know they edited anything in the thread.
So, no. ORCs do not always leave a tag that they edited posts.
...the latest round of forum upgrades.
Removing features and introducing bugs is not a forum upgrade its a downgrade.
In a thread a while ago there was a poster asking as a side question if anyone knew a good torrent for 4E . Several people (including me) responded telling the person that was not allowed on these forums as well as answering the OP's question (the one the thread was about, not the one about torrents). The OP and anyone responding to the torrent question's posts were edited to remove the offending material. However, no ORC let us know they edited anything in the thread.
So, no. ORCs do not always leave a tag that they edited posts.
As was said upthread - if "JoeUser" posts something inapproriate and you reply to it - your post may be removed with Joe's post to preserve thread continuity.
In that case you would not receive a notice because you didn't violate the CoC.
For reference:
There is a time when you aren't notified that content has been deleted, and this happens when you reply to something that was a violation that we removed. If Joe Poster puts up an inappropriate picture, and you respond to that picture, when we remove the picture your comment would be removed for continuity. This can be frustrating at times, we understand, and we do try to avoid having to do this whenever possible by editing out bits that refer to deleted posts solely, but it is unavoidable at times.
Since the process cannot be made to both function and be completely transparent [...]
Why can't the process be made to be transparent?
Not all processes are for public consumption. For example, do you know how your bank adds money to your account? Do you know the passwords and software program? Do you know every proceedure your bank has? Probably not.
Same goes with most processes and proceedures in every business there is.
There are processes that can't be made public for various reasons, and can't be disclosed as well. A retail store isn't going to make public the proceedure for making bank deposits, for example. They're not going to let the public know they even have a proceedure.
It's a situation similar, not a match to, that example.
Not all processes are for public consumption. For example, do you know how your bank adds money to your account? Do you know the passwords and software program? Do you know every proceedure your bank has? Probably not.
Same goes with most processes and proceedures in every business there is.
There are processes that can't be made public for various reasons, and can't be disclosed as well. A retail store isn't going to make public the proceedure for making bank deposits, for example. They're not going to let the public know they even have a proceedure.
It's a situation similar, not a match to, that example.
Your example is flawed. Because we see the effects of the situation, we should be notified of those effects.
A simple "A post from JoePoster and a post from MoePoster have been removed because JoePoster's post violated the CoC. MoePosters post was removed because it replyed to JoePosters post and for continuity." would be sufficient.
Is that so hard?
Actually, yes. Because people would use it as a tally.
"Oh, looks like webster violated the Code of Conduct again. That's three strikes. He should be banned."
All such tracking is not for public consumption and kept private.
Well i know of certian individuals out there who jump on anything they deem even the slighest offensive. For instance if you compair thier arguments on alignments to say the people who try to ge away with things base on thier lawful or chaotic stupid alignment. (Something I feel is a common enough term that it should be understood and not triggering the 'personal attack!' defense so many people are just so ready to use. Even when its not them.)
Not all processes are for public consumption. For example, do you know how your bank adds money to your account? Do you know the passwords and software program? Do you know every proceedure your bank has? Probably not.
you're comparing eggs to apples. the method how the bank adds money is hidden to me, not of necessity, but because i really need not know. what they do hide is INTERNALS. They perfectly and clearly list every cause for what they do. Your above statement is like saying you need not know why a bank deducted money. There's no need to know where the adminscripts and what the passwords are, but you really want to know why there was any transaction. And it's the same here. I've got no need for showing me internal lists, guidelines or whatever. But when my post is edited, removed or moved, i want to know how, when and whereto.
you'd switch your bank if they hid that information from you. you can't switch community pages as easily as there are usually a lot less of them.
Well i know of certian individuals out there who jump on anything they deem even the slighest offensive.
Welcome to the forums!
I second this!
Actually, yes. Because people would use it as a tally.
"Oh, looks like webster violated the Code of Conduct again. That's three strikes. He should be banned."
All such tracking is not for public consumption and kept private.
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.
Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
...the latest round of forum upgrades.Removing features and introducing bugs is not a forum upgrade its a downgrade.
It is more of a sidegrade...it added features and fixed bugs...but also removed features and introed bugss...I think over all this is better becuse they are working on it...but over all it is not yet an upgrade I agree
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.
Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
I wouldn't say I am "proud" of my rides on the banned wagon, but I don't make a big secret out of having been banned either... especially if I think it was for a ridiculous reason (as most of them are)...
not to call you out, but in general I tthink that type of talk should be made agaisnt COC...I mean really what good comes from saying "I beat being baned..."
I wouldn't say I am "proud" of my rides on the banned wagon, but I don't make a big secret out of having been banned either... especially if I think it was for a ridiculous reason (as most of them are)...
Then you're not the kind of person I'm talking about (though others may or may not agree - I don't, personally, know you from Adam).
Rest assured there ARE people who wear their bans with pride, and drawing MORE attention to such attention seekers only feeds into their actions.
@wolfstar: what you're presenting here sounds very much like an excuse. Telling people why or what or where their posts got edited/moved, does not equate making everything publicly visible. The Bantroll (in lack of a better name) seems very much like a strawman in this regard to me. There are quite some areas where currently people do not know what happened to their posts (moves), or don't get notified (subsequent edits) - and this causes intransparency between wotc and those specific users. as i already stated above, wotc does not need to be transparent to everyone or everywhere, but when it concerns you personally, you should be able to get full disclosure, and not just on request - but everytime something happens. to go back to websters example, imagine a bank that only tells you your balance when you request a payment that could not be made due to being in the negatives.
My tuppenceworth:
If somebody's post is edited or deleted (including if the whole thread is deleted) for any reason, they should be informed of that reason. It's just common courtesy.
If the edit or deletion is due to somebody else's CoC violation, then obviously it's not necessary to name names and violate any other poster's privacy. The following explanation, sent by PM or email, would be quite adequate, IMO:
Your post (post number) in the thread "Obvious Flamebait Thread!!!1!eleven!!" has been edited/deleted for continuity due to a CoC violation by another poster in that thread. Please be assured that this is not the result of any wrongdoing on your part. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. If you have any comments or questions concerning this action, please contact us at (contact details).
Or, if the whole thread had to be euthanized:
We have deleted the thread "Obvious Flamebait Thread!!!1!eleven!!", in which you have posted, due to CoC violations by other posters. Please be assured that this is not the result of any wrongdoing on your part. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. If you have any comments or questions concerning this action, please contact us at (contact details).
Hell, you could even leave out the "due to a CoC violation by another poster in that thread" if you think that's too close to publically reprimanding the original violator, although anyone who's had their post edited "for continuity" could probably figure that bit out for themselves (since they presumably remember who they were replying to in the section of their post that got cut).
Having served as a moderator on other forums, this seems like fairly no-brainer stuff to me.
Actually, yes. Because people would use it as a tally."Oh, looks like webster violated the Code of Conduct again. That's three strikes. He should be banned."
All such tracking is not for public consumption and kept private.
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
We've had posters do that. One who's accounts that I will not mention took pleasure is sending e-mails to people that he was "communicating" with the names of his previous accounts and the the number of temperary bans he had accumulated under he active sock puppet account while proclaiming his innocence on the forums and claiming that people where just out to get him.
So the current system doesn't prevent this. In fact when the pop up again repeating the cycle of trolling you cannot tell people that they are have done without being moderated, so it even protects them while they troll.
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
Join the club.
I made a post in the "Stickin it to the man" thread that got deleted and never got a reson as to why. I first checked my e-mail to see if I got an explanation as usual, but there was nothing there. Then I even posted a request in the thread asking that the ORC that deleted my post send me an e-mail with an explanation and what specific CoC violation I violated. I even said "please". Still no response.
Usually I know why a post of mine gets deleted, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I did wrong in that "Stickin' it to the man" thread...
I believe a lot of it boils down to some people are rather more sensitive than others and easily offended. Indeed, it is my opinion that some even actively look for things to try to get offended by.
Hey! I'm offended by your post. I don't actively look for things to be offended by. I simply open up the WotC community site. That's usually enough for me.
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
Join the club.
I made a post in the "Stickin it to the man" thread that got deleted and never got a reson as to why. I first checked my e-mail to see if I got an explanation as usual, but there was nothing there. Then I even posted a request in the thread asking that the ORC that deleted my post send me an e-mail with an explanation and what specific CoC violation I violated. I even said "please". Still no response.
Usually I know why a post of mine gets deleted, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I did wrong in that "Stickin' it to the man" thread...
I believe a lot of it boils down to some people are rather more sensitive than others and easily offended. Indeed, it is my opinion that some even actively look for things to try to get offended by.
Although they may occasionally look around, as a general rule the ORCs don't read threads unless something is reported. Did you report your own post that asked why your other was deleted? That might have worked because then it would have been read and you might have received an email explanation.
A better option would probably be to use the "email us" option under the report conduct choice. You can then ask for a notification since you were supposed toget one and didn't receive it. That might work.
You know, an ORC deleted a post I made about how I dislike 4.0, and I never got a reason for it.
It was in the OTT thread 'How to begin'...
Join the club.
I made a post in the "Stickin it to the man" thread that got deleted and never got a reson as to why. I first checked my e-mail to see if I got an explanation as usual, but there was nothing there. Then I even posted a request in the thread asking that the ORC that deleted my post send me an e-mail with an explanation and what specific CoC violation I violated. I even said "please". Still no response.
Usually I know why a post of mine gets deleted, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I did wrong in that "Stickin' it to the man" thread...
I believe a lot of it boils down to some people are rather more sensitive than others and easily offended. Indeed, it is my opinion that some even actively look for things to try to get offended by.
Although they may occasionally look around, as a general rule the ORCs don't read threads unless something is reported. Did you report your own post that asked why your other was deleted? That might have worked because then it would have been read and you might have received an email explanation.
A better option would probably be to use the "email us" option under the report conduct choice. You can then ask for a notification since you were supposed toget one and didn't receive it. That might work.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.
If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'm wondering why they don't make a script that will fix it for every account and run it on a weekend about 3:00am or something. Its not like its difficult.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'm wondering why they don't make a script that will fix it for every account and run it on a weekend about 3:00am or something. Its not like its difficult.
My guess is that its an issue that cannot be fixed like what you are suggesting in your guess. and since it seems to be quite sporadic random its not a prevalent issue. or at least they dont want to screw up even more people who are already working fine.
I'd have to post in that thread about CS not working first, and I'm really too lazy for that.
Really, it would take about the same effort that you went through in this post.
I did it Sunday and my account was fixed within a few hours.If anyone is wondering this is the thread: Trouble Accessing our Help System? Post here.
I'm wondering why they don't make a script that will fix it for every account and run it on a weekend about 3:00am or something. Its not like its difficult.
My guess is that its an issue that cannot be fixed like what you are suggesting in your guess. and since it seems to be quite sporadic random its not a prevalent issue. or at least they dont want to screw up even more people who are already working fine.
The only way that would be true is if the whole community site was a very badly designed, and badly implemented and meant to only be used by MMO players while their game servers were down.
I think we have a winner!
The only way that would be true is if the whole community site was a very badly designed, and badly implemented and meant to only be used by MMO players while their game servers were down.
The transfer of accounts from one system to another damaged some of them.
That has to do with the immigration process rather than this site.
Also the MMO comment is uncalled for.
The only way that would be true is if the whole community site was a very badly designed, and badly implemented and meant to only be used by MMO players while their game servers were down.
The transfer of accounts from one system to another damaged some of them.
That has to do with the immigration process rather than this site.
Also the MMO comment is uncalled for.
Actually the MMO comment was called for. If you go to Onesite and read up on them, they mainly work with video games and MMOs. Their system wasn't really meant for a dedicated community like this one where everyone uses it all the time.
Conversely there are those who troll for the sake of trolling. EvilWebster would take pride in his "delete count" and keep going just for the bragging rights of how many times he's been deleted/publicly warned/etc.
Privacy policies in this case serve to protect the privacy of the offender/accused - but also serves to not "reward" people who deliberately troll for fun.
I wouldn't say I am "proud" of my rides on the banned wagon, but I don't make a big secret out of having been banned either... especially if I think it was for a ridiculous reason (as most of them are)...
All of them are for Code of Conduct violations.
Also the MMO comment is uncalled for.
Actually the MMO comment was called for.
No it was an Appeal to Ridicule. That sort of thing is always uncalled for.
If you go to Onesite and read up on them, they mainly work with video games and MMOs. Their system wasn't really meant for a dedicated community like this one where everyone uses it all the time.
Onesite did not design the Customer Service site, instead it is the same site as before the forum transfer. So not only did you just try a Package Deal Fallacy, you failed to properly invoke it.