That time is over. Board numbers are now nearly non-existent
Overall, it is simply time to condense all the nonsense. I don't know how the other boards are faring, but FR isn't--at all. Condense them. Make them ONE. PLEASE.
~~Edited for baiting content~~ORC_Nashira
I assume the Community Business forum would be the appropriate place to request a Forum consolidation.
Tthe time of three FR boards should end. Their creation was dependant on the influx of (pre)4e comments that made them so. That time is over. Board numbers are now nearly non-existent.
Overall, it is simply time to condense them. I don't know how the other boards are faring, but FR isn't--at all. Condense them. Make them ONE. PLEASE.
Regarding your request... I concur.
~~Edited for baiting content~~ORC_Nashira
Anyway, I've been all over the map on this issue.
My current feeling is that the FR boards should be condensed to two forums.
One for Gaming In The Realms, and one for General Forgotten Realms Talk.
General can handle novel reviews and deep lore discussion generated by same, questions for the game designers, discussions about Realms information coming out in Dragon and Dungeon e-zines and reviews of same, rants and criticisms, etc...
Gaming can handle gamer related creations and content, FR-specific rules questions, questions on adapting adventures to the Realms, questions on Realms-specific adventures (Sceptre Tower is a relatively popular topic), other mechanics talk for DMs and players using the Realms, Realms DM advice on how to Realmsify their campaigns and so on.
Lore requests can be handled in either forum. Just encourage people to decide how to post based on whether their information needs are for their campaign or are more for general "I'm curious about this" nature.
I think this would work best because lore questions for campaigns can be both fact-based queries and hypothetical queries. Likewise, general non-campaign related lore discussions and questions fall into these two categories.
There will be lore-question overlap, but since the FR boards are slow anyway I think we ought to see the simple act of posting as far more important than worrying overmuch about where on the FR forums people should post.
~~Edited by ORC_Nashira~~
************
Please return discussion to the topic of the thread, or it may need to be closed.
My current feeling is that the FR boards should be condensed to two forums.
One for Gaming In The Realms, and one for General Forgotten Realms Talk.
I think it could be something more general, such as Playing in the Realms (for players) and DMing the Realms (For DMs).
I thought that way too at one point. However there's a good sized chunk of the Realms fanbase who come to the forums to talk Realmslore and Novels without need or concern for how it's used in a game.
Asking them to fit in (so to speak) in either a DM's forum or a player's forum would kill what little pure lore discussion we have left. People who enjoy the Realms but don't play in it need a forum away from the rules. Short of combining all the FR boards into one, a General forum is the best option for that.
Also, if you divide out Players and DMs....well, it creates a needless division. Players are DMs and viceversa (sp?) when it comes to the Realms. I think if you keep player/DM interaction and talk on one forum, it helps about both halves of the equation (so to speak).
Nice to talk with you.
Perhaps a reasonable approach "re-write" would be...
My apologies to both you and ORC_Nashira (and I wasn't baiting). Overall, I tend to be blunt and to the point. Some might say vulgar. Go figure.
Either way, I'm a bit pissed with how things have transpired around here. I'm going to state my peace--eloquence aside.
Anyway, I've been all over the map on this issue.
My current feeling is that the FR boards should be condensed to two forums....
Personally? I would love to see five boards devoted to FR subtopics. But my point here and now is that the traffic doesn't condone even two. Right now, we need to consolidate everything into a single board, reestablish a common membership, then go from there.
If the number of posts rise, then, yes, by all means, lets split things back into two. If it grows greater, sure, lets jump to three. But right now? This place is dead.
We can at least give the illusion that it is alive by condensing things and having all posts in one place. Make it seem like this place is active--without the need to look all over hell to find the next board that might have a new post on it.
I'm not disagreeing with your logic one bit. Providing traffic picks up, there should definitely be two boards. But right now we need to have some solidarity.
Hello Webster,
I thought that way too at one point. However there's a good sized chunk of the Realms fanbase who come to the forums to talk Realmslore and Novels without need or concern for how it's used in a game.
Asking them to fit in (so to speak) in either a DM's forum or a player's forum would kill what little pure lore discussion we have left. People who enjoy the Realms but don't play in it need a forum away from the rules. Short of combining all the FR boards into one, a General forum is the best option for that.
Also, if you divide out Players and DMs....well, it creates a needless division. Players are DMs and viceversa (sp?) when it comes to the Realms. I think if you keep player/DM interaction and talk on one forum, it helps about both halves of the equation (so to speak).
Nice to talk with you.
Hm... Good point.
The thread were we already disscussed this very topic.;) community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
The thread were we already disscussed this very topic.;) community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
I would agree with wrecan on pretty much all of it. But, like I stated, I piss in my own pool.
Anyway, I find it funny that Mr. Miss was promoting one board at that time, but quickly returned to two on this thread.
I agree that there should be 2 boards.
I don't think there is anybody--especially if you read through the thread 18D posted--that will dispute that--except on the basis of what those boards should represent. But now is not the time. It simply doesn't make sense.
Just take a look at the posts that come through these days. How many FR Realmslore threads are actually "realmslore" to begin with? While misinterpretation is always going to be an issue, at this point in time it doesn't even matter because there isn't enough posts to justify a distinction.
Right now, it is not about what makes logical choice to those that visit regularly, but what makes logical sense to those that we want to visit and continue to visit.
As for the topic at hand, I wonder whether FR NOVELS and FR GAMING/RPG might be a better split?
It seems many simply read the novels and don't play in FR. They're valued customers of WotC (and, let's be frank, it was the novels that kept TSR afloat for long enough to give us some more great FR products) and so should have their own space. And perhaps with some really aggressive moderation the tone could be changed to be more welcoming... and far less threadcrapping than currently exists.
Anyway, no matter what happens I hope we end up with some boards that are positive about gaming in FR with a major reduction in the negative tone that is so often here and far less threadcrapping.
I live in hope, anyway. :D
For the most part, I think that those of us still around are either accepting of the whole thing or are simply tired of arguing about it. For now, I don't see that being the biggest issue. And, if it becomes one, we can address that at the time and place where it occurs.
Second, let's try to avoid topics on how the boards should be split right now. Lets just get a board with traffic, then roll from there. If you don't have traffic, you simply don't have boards. Period.
Anyway, I find it funny that Mr. Miss was promoting one board at that time, but quickly returned to two on this thread.
I find it typical that instead of simply asking me why I changed my mind (or figuring it out on your own; there's some big hints as to why in my earlier post) you instead try and take a shot at me.
Right now, it is not about what makes logical choice to those that visit regularly, but what makes logical sense to those that we want to visit and continue to visit.
If that's the case, then shrinking the FR forums down to make things "look" busy isn't a good idea.
Sure, it makes sense on the surface: if you pile everything into one forum, that's where all the traffic (such as it is) will go.
The assumption being if people see traffic, they'll want to participate.
I subscribed to this idea too, but thanks in part to my conversations with Iluvrien, I've come to see that people want different things out of the FR Forums. The people who we want to visit will be turned off by a single, high entropy forum where custom NPC threads overlap novel threads, review threads, "my campaign" type threads, Realmslore inquiries and so on.
There's no disputing traffic is slow, nor that we have too many FR Forums. But combining everything is just as bad as keeping the three we have, because it will stifle thread activity.
Not to mention traffic flow goes in cycles. The FR forums have been slow before. They'll be slow again.
And we shouldn't tinker the forums just based on traffic. We'd have to close a lot of forums when the kids go back to school, then re-make them when everyone goes on break for a week. Then close them back down again.
So true Webster...
We'd have to close a lot of forums when the kids go back to school, then re-make them when everyone goes on break for a week. Then close them back down again.
Works for the Express Lane at rush hour. Open one way in the morning, and the other direction in the evening.
I find it typical that instead of simply asking me why I changed my mind (or figuring it out on your own; there's some big hints as to why in my earlier post) you instead try and take a shot at me.
And I find your response typical of you.
Look, on either thread, you could have easily said, "I was wrong with my earlier assessment, because...", yet, you simply went with the flow. Those that have been at the FR boards for a time know that you always favored two boards, rather than three or one.
But, yes, I looked at both threads a couple times before I stated what I did. I saw nothing to agree with your back and forth decisions, nor did I find "hints". Especially due to the time frame both threads took place
Either way, if you dispute my logic or disagree with my assumption, then PM me. Let's not destroy another post through our disputable and opinionated logic on the matter at hand.
Right now, it is not about what makes logical choice to those that visit regularly, but what makes logical sense to those that we want to visit and continue to visit.
If that's the case, then shrinking the FR forums down to make things "look" busy isn't a good idea.
Sure, it makes sense on the surface: if you pile everything into one forum, that's where all the traffic (such as it is) will go.
The assumption being if people see traffic, they'll want to participate.
I subscribed to this idea too, but thanks in part to my conversations with Iluvrien, I've come to see that people want different things out of the FR Forums. The people who we want to visit will be turned off by a single, high entropy forum where custom NPC threads overlap novel threads, review threads, "my campaign" type threads, Realmslore inquiries and so on.
There's no disputing traffic is slow, nor that we have too many FR Forums. But combining everything is just as bad as keeping the three we have, because it will stifle thread activity.
Look, I pay attention to 85% of what Iluvrien says…cause I find it sound. Yet, I believe he is absolutely WRONG on this subject. He is still looking at it from the view point of someone looking for simple knowledge and not someone who wants to be part of a COMMUNITY.
THAT is what I am talking about here--a sense of community.
Real knowledge can only come when you have some real knowledgeable people here to fill in the gaps and debate about it.
Quite frankly. I’m a bit pissed with Iluvrien’s assessment. 
I mean, he arrived after the boards had been split and there WAS traffic!! I still remember asking him if he was a he or she because of his pink avatar!! 
Not to mention traffic flow goes in cycles. The FR forums have been slow before. They'll be slow again.
Really? This slow? How far do the "bored" numbers go back? Shall we break them out?
But, yes, I looked at both threads a couple times before I stated what I did. I saw nothing to agree with your back and forth decisions,
See post #7.
(You know, the one you already quoted, but then managed to forget about before you wrote your last post in this thread.)
He is still looking at it from the view point of someone looking for simple knowledge and not someone who wants to be part of a COMMUNITY.
I wouldn't be so sure of that statement. Iluvrien (who I always thought was a she, by the way) has said more than once that (s)he wants to preserve the FR Forum's ability to welcome questions about lore and discussions about the novels, particularly for those people who enjoy the lore of the Forgotten Realms but choose not to play D&D in the Realms or who don't play D&D at all.
I didn't appreciate this position before, because I saw how virtually everyone who dispensed lore on the FR Forums used it as a stick to beat people with. Knowledgeable people were often hostile to other forum members who didn't "see" the Realms as they did or who didn't have an encyclopedic knowledge of it.
On top of that, the lore was presented in a dry, boring, uncreative and textbook-like manner.
So I too felt that lore for lore's sake, especially without the D&D game as a backdrop to foster discussion, wasn't good for the FR Forums as a whole and didn't merit a single forum.
However, because of Iluvrien's nuanced position, which takes into consideration the needs of other community members and recognizes there's a subset of people that the FR Forums can and should service, I have learned to see past my prejudice and have changed my mind.
Real knowledge can only come when you have some real knowledgeable people here to fill in the gaps and debate about it.
You mean we don't have such people already? I recognize the fact that we lost some people, but we've still got some big brains on the FR forums.
Could you talk more about what you mean by that last?
From my POV, fun and interesting people are far better than highly knowledgeable loremasters that look down their noses at you. ;)
But, yes, I looked at both threads a couple times before I stated what I did. I saw nothing to agree with your back and forth decisions,
See post #7.
My point is that there is nothing correlating the two separate threads you lay your foundation on. In one thread, you promote one board, and on the next, you promote two. And the two threads have such a close timeframe it is almost eerie. So:
I wouldn't be so sure of that statement. Iluvrien (who I always thought was a she, by the way) has said more than once that (s)he wants to preserve the FR Forum's ability to welcome questions about lore and discussions about the novels, particularly for those people who enjoy the lore of the Forgotten Realms but choose not to play D&D in the Realms or who don't play D&D at all.
Unless Iluvrien is a chick out to trick, SHE is 100% a HE. Otherwise, all those references to life experiences he makes are extremely kinky.
Though, that would be awesome. ;)
Anyway, as stated, I don’t disagree with either of you. Now is simply not the time to do what we all believe is legit. There is always a short term and a long term. When a business is about to go belly up, they always focus on the short term and try to make sure they have enough revenue coming in to survive. Only then—once they have a foundation to rebuild—do they look long term.
That generally means looking at what share of their market is generating the most revenue, consolidating their departments/divisions/branches to reach that market and rid themselves of overhead that may weigh operations down.
For the FR Boards, I completely believe that means a single FR board. Why? Because that means—no matter how small—it creates a community again. And what the hell is a "Wizards Community" without one?
Are you about to tell me that you or anyone else still sticking around FR is just about the lore and the novels? I mean, there is nothing here to explore anymore!
No. You are here for the community. Just like I am and just like every other regular here. And the whole community thing is simply gone at this point.
Are you about to tell me that you or anyone else still sticking around FR is just about the lore and the novels? I mean, there is nothing here to explore anymore!
It seems to me like you've lost your sense of wonder at the Realms.
With respect, "there's nothing here to explore anymore" applies to you and you only. Realms information is being published regularly; new lore in Dragon and Dungeon E-Magazine, new (LFR) adventures and new novels.
I'm still enjoying the Realms as much as ever. Still run my D&D game in the Realms, still reference Realms sourcebooks and novels from all eras/editions of the game and I am building up my NPC lists and reacquainting myself with Cormyr by writing up War Wizard NPCs (woefully behind in that project though I may be) who are all set in the current era of the Realms over on the Running the Realms forum.
No. You are here for the community. Just like I am and just like every other regular here.
I know you're generalizing and I see the point you're making, but please don't put words in my mouth. As I just mentioned, I'm not here just "for the community".
I post my NPCs and dabble in a few other threads, but that's it. I enjoy my forum friends and their posts, but I don't interact with them anywhere near as much as I do my real life friends on something like Facebook, for example.
I also don't like the use of the term "regular" anymore.
It's a great word if you go to the bar a lot ;) but on the forums it implies a separation; a notion of "there's us, then everyone else" that comes dangerously close to elitism.
I'm a community member (and so are you) first. We should see ourselves as just like everyone else in this regard, even if we're here on the forums more than most.
As to your business metaphor: It's a good one, as far as it goes. You're right in that many businesses do try to cut losses and streamline when things are tough.
But that's not the only way businesses deal with hard times.
Some businesses decide to remodel and remake themselves. Consider nightclubs: when times are tough and/or they're not considered to be the "in" place to go, nightclubs will shut down for a few weeks, remodel and rename themselves (i.e., the owners stay the same but they do business under a new, fictitious name), then open up as a "new" place, re-attracting lost customers and lost revenues.
On the FR Forums, active forum members are customers and their posts are revenue. To earn these back, some things need to be recognized and understood.
1) The FR Forums have terrible names and hideous descriptions (and aren't even grouped together properly on the drop down forum menu ((WotC, you are REALLY dropping the ball here FYI))), that combined do almost nothing to encourage people to come in and talk about the Realms, their home Realms games and their Realms player characters.
2) The Forgotten Realms are in a "budding" state, just as they were approximately 24 years ago. The Forgotten Realms forums need to be repurposed in recognition of this fact. They also need to be shaped around what people like to talk about when they talk Realms (categories for which I listed in earlier posts on this thread).
In my opinion, lumping everything together into one forum won't build community. Instead it will only serve to drive away what few people we have left.
But for all our back and forth disagreement, one thing remains true: we both agree that change needs to happen with regard to the FR Forums, sooner rather than later.
1- Master Forgotten Realms Forum link/tab.
2- Sub-section links/tabs on the page that opens from the "Master" that lead to:
a) Maps for 4e
b) Maps Pre-4e
c) Canon for 4e in-game use
d) Pre-4e Time-line of Canon for in-game use
e) Open Discussion Lore of the Realms
f) Misc 4e Forgotten Realms Resources
g)Misc pre-4e Forgotten Realms Resources
If the information was divided this way, all fans of Forgotten Realms would be able to easily find the information that was already posted, related to what they need; as well as locate the best place to add their own posts for people who would benefit most from it.
Personally, I don't care if you call it "re-writing", Consolidating, or anything else. The way I see it there needs to be:
1- Master Forgotten Realms Forum link/tab.
2- Sub-section links/tabs on the page that opens from the "Master" that lead to:
a) Maps for 4e
b) Maps Pre-4e
c) Canon for 4e in-game use
d) Pre-4e Time-line of Canon for in-game use
e) Open Discussion Lore of the Realms
f) Misc 4e Forgotten Realms Resources
g)Misc pre-4e Forgotten Realms Resources
If the information was divided this way, all fans of Forgotten Realms would be able to easily find the information that was already posted, related to what they need; as well as locate the best place to add their own posts for people who would benefit most from it.
I second the idea. Right now it's too much "3e vs 4e" and hard to find anything of value. Not to mention the fact most things of value have disappeared, and homebrew anything disappears somewhere down deep....
I like the FR as a detailed campaign setting. When I'm reading or posting about lore, I'm doing it as it relates to building a campaign in the FR. I couldn't care less about the FR novels, or anything else beyond playing in the FR.
If there was only one forum, and I had to filter through a high concentration of discussion about the novels in that forum, you can rest assured that I'd spend even less time there than I do now.
So, I agree with Mr_Miscellany in that respect. Having a single forum to contain a jumble of everything risks turning posters away.