Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wrecan Apr 21, 2008 12:42:02	In [post=15515034]this post[/post] on another thread, Gamer_Zer0 expressed the opinion that boards that produce 15-20 threads a week should survive into the next iteration of the D&D Boards. Essentially, G0 wanted to analyze how quickly a new thread might cycle off the first page of a board if left undisturbed. Boards with less than a one-week turnaround should be merged and boards with more than a two week turnaround should be split up. I thought it would be useful to analyze which topics currently meet that test. First, my methodology. To calculate a per day thread count I look at how many threads a board has. I did not use the thread-count on the main [forum=8]D&D board[/forum] or [forum=693]4th Edition Board[/forum] linking all boards under them. I have no idea what the number in the "Threads" column of those boards represents, but it does not count the number of threads visible in each forum. Rather I went into each forum and saw how many threads were there. I looked to see the last day of the last post of the last thread on the baord to determine how many days are represented on those boards. Each forum has a different default. I then divided the number of threads by this day-count for a thread/day count. There are 25 threads on a page, under the default view of the forums. Thus I divide the thread/day count by 25 to determine a turnaround time in days. Forums and their sub-forums are counted separately, but I combined all the Eberron, Forgotten Realms and Other Worlds boards. Note that some boards are likely unnaturally depressed because of impending 4th edition. Since the community is somewhat dividing over people sticking with 3rd and moving to 4th, and also because without the rulebooks, we don't have as much on 4th to discuss, the numbers may be skewed. Note that there are redundant boards. Both the 4th edition and D&D boards have boards to discuss Classes, for example. I didn't not bother with restricted or locked boards, for obvious reasons Some boards should exist even if they are slower than Gamer_Zer0's recommendation. This list is not a discussion of which boards should be exceptions to the 15-20 rule. Okay. Here is the list in descending order of turnaround time. Threads with 7-14 day turnaround are bolded. Forums from the D&D boards begin "D&D". Forums from the 4th edition boards begin "4E". Forums from the d20 design and d20 Modern boards begin with "d20". Under 7 is highlighted. [highlight]d20 Character Optimization: .73 days FORGOTTEN REALMS BOARDS (combined): 1.41 days D&D Classes and Prestige Classes: 3.42 days EBERRON BOARDS (combined): 3.57 days OTHER WORLDS (combined): 3.6 days D&D What's a DM to Do?: 3.63 days 4E Concerns & Criticisms: 4.14 days D20 MODERN BOARDS (combined): 4.77 days D&D General: 4.79 days D&D Equipment and Combat: 5.35 days D&D Magic and Spells: 5.71 days D&D Skills and Feats: 6.38 days 4E Rules: 6.85 days 4E Classes: 6.89 days[/highlight] d20 Character Development: 8.38 days D&D Monster's Lair: 8.84 days D&D What's a Player to Do?: 9.16 days D&D Races: 9.77 days D&D Psionics: 12.32 days 4E Races: 12.5 days D&D Prestige Classes: 14.29 days D&D Campaign Workshop: 16.89 days 4E Monsters: 18.52 days 4E Astrid's Parlor: 23.36 days 4E Magic: 24.27 days D&D DM Rules Counseling: 24.75 days 4E Dragon Magazine: 25.77 days D&D Future Releases: 27.78 days D&D Unearthed Arcana and House Rules: 28.41 days 4E Adventures: 28.41 days D&D Epic Level: 28.73 days D&D Deities and the Planes: 30.49 days 4E Forgotten Realms: 31.25 days D&D Adventures: 34.72 days D&D Community Business: 36 days 4E Treasure and Rewards: 37.88 days D&D Mature Topics: 41.67 days d20 Theoretical Optimization: 46.30 days 4E Dungeon Magazine: 47.17 days d20 Design General: 57.88 days 4E D&D Game Table: 62.5 days D&D Digital D&D: 65.79 days 4E Eberron: 67.57 days d20 Character Optimization: non-D&D: 68.27 days 4E Technical Discussion: 71.43 days d20 Videogames: 73.45 days 4E Other Campaign Settings: 73.53 days d20 Anime: 75 days d20 Sci-fi: 94.25 days D&D Oriental Adventures: 100 days d20 Fantasy: 106.5 4E OGL/D20: 125 days d20 Horror: 147.92 days d20 For Grins: 171.77 days 4E Character Creator: 178.57 days 4E Greyhawk: 227.27 days d20 Historical: 322.73 d20 Playing With Everything: 560.53 days 4E Dragonlance: 2500 days
#2 dovearrow Apr 21, 2008 12:51:21	I'm actually not sure what Gamer Zero is responding to, but I would like to point out that while there may not be many new threads in Astrid's Parlor, there are lots of new posts every day, and threads often get up to five or six pages long. I think if a Litmus Test is going to be proposed, it needs to be based on the number of posts per day, and not on the number of threads. Keep in mind, though, I'm not really sure what Gamer Zero is responding to, so I may have a different opinion if you could give me a summary of what was discussed. I personally don't want to go back through four pages of a thread I know nothing about to pull out the specific conversation that generated this new discussion.
#3 Zherog Apr 21, 2008 13:02:07	I'll finish reading in a second. But first... # To calculate a per day thread count I look at how many threads a board has. I did not use the thread-count on the main [forum=8]D&D board[/forum] or [forum=693]4th Edition Board[/forum] linking all boards under them. I have no idea what the number in the "Threads" column of those boards represents, but it does not count the number of threads visible in each forum. Rather I went into each forum and saw how many threads were there. # In the D&D Boards, only threads from the past 60 days are visible, so I took the number of threads in the forum and divided by 60 to get a threads/day count. The second one answers your first one, in a round-about way. By default, the D&D forums filter to show threads that are 2 months old. You can change this; by default, the tools to do so appear at the bottom of the forum list, though there is a setting in your user control panel to move it to the top. I'm willing to wager that if you set the filter to show everything, the number of threads in the forum will match the numbers in the "master" forum.
#4 wrecan Apr 21, 2008 13:44:19	I'm actually not sure what Gamer Zero is responding to, but I would like to point out that while there may not be many new threads in Astrid's Parlor, there are lots of new posts every day, and threads often get up to five or six pages long. The idea, as I understand it, is how quickly a thread will get shunted to the second page of the forum, and thus out of view. Since a forum's first page shows about 30 threads (less one to three stickies), any forum with 15-20 threads a week will keep all threads on the first page for a little more than a week.
#5 Zherog Apr 21, 2008 15:05:04	The idea, as I understand it, is how quickly a thread will get shunted to the second page of the forum, and thus out of view. Since a forum's first page shows about 30 threads (less one to three stickies), any forum with 15-20 threads a week will keep all threads on the first page for a little more than a week. The number of stickies doesn't affect the number of threads on a page. For example, this forum has one sticky, and I count 26 threads on the page; What's a Player to Do has two stickies, and I count 27 threads on a page there.
#6 wrecan Apr 21, 2008 15:11:49	Good. Then my revised math (see OP) is accurate. Thanks for the confirmation, Zherog!
#7 Zherog Apr 21, 2008 15:18:38	So, just making sure I understand your numbers... basically, it's the amount of time it would take for a thread to drop off the first page. Yes? If so, somethin' seems fishy to me... I'll need to ponder...
#8 wrecan Apr 21, 2008 15:42:50	It is an estimate. One thing it doesn't measure is longevity of threads. For instance... Forum 1 has five new threads/day, but all of them get resolved in a few days. That forum would legitimately have a five day turnaround. Forum 2 has only 1 new thread/day, but there are 23 threads that are ridiculously active and get posted to every day. These threads wouldn't have been caught up in my calculation, but even so, a thread that is posted on this forum and sees no activity beyond the first post would be bumped to the second page in only two days. However, I am unsure of how to measure accurately the activity in Forum 2.
#9 Heros_Backpack Apr 21, 2008 17:21:16	I suspect that the Campaign Workshop is the second variety. 16.89 days seems a bit long, when I know for a fact that on a quiet week I have to fish the Commoner Campaign off the second (and occasionally the third) page in order to post the next episode.
#10 wrecan Apr 21, 2008 17:41:45	Well, here's how I'm going to do it. Let's just see how many threads receive new in a 24 hour period. The problem is one-day is a tiny sample and I have neither the patience nor the inclination to repeat the process. These numbers seem more accurate. The forums in italics are those that would naturally get combined with forums already in the black. DAYS BOARD [highlight] 0.41 d20 Character Optimization 0.56 D&D What's a DM to Do? 0.57 D&D General & 4E Rules 0.64 4E Concerns and Criticism 0.64 D&D Classes and Prestige Classes 0.66 D&D Equipment and Combat & 4E Treasure and Rewards 0.74 FORGOTTEN REALMS (consolidated) & 4E Forgotten Realms 0.78 D&D Monsters' Lair & 4E Monsters 0.83 4E Races & D&D Races 0.83 D&D Magic and Spells & 4E Magic 0.96 4E Classes[/highlight] 1.00 ALL EBERRON BOARDS (consolidated) & 4E Eberron 1.00 ALL OTHER WORLDS BOARDS (consolidated) 1.09 D&D Skills and Feats 1.13 ALL NON-CHAR OP d20 BOARDS (consolidated) 1.51 ALL D&D DIGITAL BOARDS (including the magazines) 1.56 D&D What's a Player to Do? 1.56 D20 MODERN (consolidated) 1.92 4E Astrid's Parlor 2.78 D&D Campaign Workshop 2.78 D&D Community Business 2.78 D&D Psionics 3.13 D&D Mature Topics 3.57 4E Adventures 3.57 D&D Prestige Classes 4.17 D&D DM Rules Counseling 5.00 D&D Deities and the Planes 6.25 D&D Epic Level 6.25 D&D Unearthed Arcana and House Rules ***** D&D Future Releases ***** means one or fewer posts today Note 1: If we combine the House Rules and Campaign Workshop forums, we get a forum with a turnaround of 1.92, right in the "sweet spot" (between 1 and 2). Something to consider. Note 2: If we combine 4E Classes, D&D Classes, Prestige Classes and Epic Levels, we'll end up with a forum with a turnaround of 0.33, which is even faster than the Char Ops board. (IOW, a consolidated Classes forum would cycle through three pages every day.) If we combine it with Powers (Magic, Psionics), we'll have a turnaround of .22, or about five pages every day! Something needs to be done. Proposal: Reconfigure all these forums as follows (numbers assume the Class threads get split pretty evenly -- a big assumption, to be sure): 0.52 -- Arcane Classes, Magic & Spells 0.48 -- Divine Classes, Deities, Planes & Prayers 0.625 -- Martial Classes, Skills, Feats & Exploits 0.95 -- General Class and Powers Discussion (multiclassing, tiers of play, new power sources)
#11 alyss_dup Apr 21, 2008 21:46:47	Good to see the mature boards aren't doing too badly.
#12 Seeker95 Apr 22, 2008 7:45:39	Just chiming in that I don't feel the litmus test is appropriate. The utility of a board is not measurable by a single metric. Each potential metric measures only one facet of Board utility. Number of new *posts* in a period of time is an assessment of the total user activity on a Board. But... Number of views is also a measure of activity, although it includes readers as well as posters. Number of new threads is a measure of the diversity of topics in a forum. Number of non-archived threads indicates the longevity of activity. I am confident there are even more metrics we could use to measure "forum activity", each valid and legitimate for what it is looking at. But no single one of them is likely to give us an accurate or even useful picture of "forum activity".
#13 wrecan Apr 22, 2008 7:59:51	Just chiming in that I don't feel the litmus test is appropriate. I think Gamer_Zer0 was just analyzing what boards should be merged or split up. The topics currently being discussed on boards will all find a home somewhere on the reconstituted boards. So "utility" isn't as much of a concern as "usability". The premise, as far as I can glean, is that there is a "sweet spot" of traffic. If traffic is too light, then people who make posts seeking information are not going to get a real diversity of response. If traffic is too heavy, a post might get swept onto the second or third page before people have a chance to respond. Gamer_Zer0 seems to be looking for boards with traffic that keeps an untouched post on the front page for no more than two days before disappearing. But no single one of them is likely to give us an accurate or even useful picture of "forum activity". All I'm trying to examine is "turnaround" time -- how fast a thread falls off the first page, and then come up with board ideas that keep posts on the front page between one and three days.
#14 gamer_zer0 Apr 22, 2008 8:50:27	First let me say great job on this, Wrecan. I am still trying to get a handle on the numbers, but this is awesome. Thank you. It's always tough to arrive at conclusions based on forum numbers, especially with regards to post count. Here are a few different things I like to look at: - Number of threads - Number of posts - Number of views That alone doesn't tell the whole story, since a forum that has been around for 5 years will have a much higher number of everything than a forum that's only been around 5 weeks. So additionally, it's good to look at all those factors: - In the last 24 hours - In the last week - In the last month If I had to single out one metric that is most helpful, I'd say it was the number of posts in the past month. This is the sort of thing that probably best represents the activity level of a forum. As a general rule, I aim for forums to have between 10 and 50 active threads per day. In other words, I want a person who only visits a forum once a day, to see at least 10, but no more than 50, threads with new replies in the past 24 hours. A forum that receives more than 50 new threads per day probably needs to be updated. While one with less than 10 needs to be closed or merged. The bullseye would be 25 new and active threads per a 24 hour period. I disagree with myself. =) Seriously, a forum with less than 10 active threads per day wouldn't need to be merged or closed. It *could* be merged. But it wouldn't have to be. I think that less than 5 active threads per week is a good measure of when something should be done with an inactive forum. Too many: More than 50 active threads per day. Too few: Less than 5 active threads per week. Optional: From 5 threads per week to 10 threads per day.
#15 wrecan Apr 22, 2008 8:57:07	First let me say great job on this, Wrecan. I am still trying to get a handle on the numbers, but this is awesome. Thank you. You're welcome! I'm also available for weddings and bar mitzvahs!
#16 alyss_dup Apr 22, 2008 11:35:12	You free on November the 13th?
#17 wrecan Apr 22, 2008 11:39:22	I'll pencil you in. Are you getting married or bar/bat mitvahed?