It's time to look at reorganizing the forums.
Back in April, Wrecan opened up a thread to kick around different organizational ideas. That thread generated a host of good ideas. We took those, melded them with our own, and churned out what you see below.
This is not a final outline—it's a starting point for you to offer more feedback. We want to combine and streamline wherever possible, with the aim of making it easier to find the type of conversation you want. With that as a guiding principle, we've pared down to this outline. I'd like to get it even smaller, but we don't want to be so vicious that no one recognizes the place.
A few explanatory notes and questions we'd really like feedback on:
What's a Player to Do? is a prime candidate for folding into 4E General Discussion. It's kept separate here because WaPtD is fairly busy, and we don't want to overload 4E General. That doesn't alter the fact that those two forums have a lot of overlap.
Astrid's Parlor is folded into 4E General. AP was strong for a while, but its traffic has fallen and we feel its audience would be best served by joining the main forum.
There was discussion of combining the D&D and M:tG off-topic areas into a single forum outside the brand categories; they're off-topic, after all. For now, though, we've kept the OTT as-is.
We considered combining all of the D&D Previous Editions forums into a single Vintage forum, since some of them don't get much use, but decided instead to separate by worlds.
- Looking to Play D&D?
- Organized Play
- Living Forgotten Realms
- RPG Gamer Classifieds
- Play-by-Post (including the Virtual Table)
- Core Coliseum
- D&D Community
- 4E General Discussion (combines Astrid's Parlor)
- 4E Rules Q&A
- What's a Player to Do?
- Character Development
- 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)
- 4E Character Optimization
- What's a DM to Do? (combines Races and Monsters and Combat, Traps, Terrain, and Tactics)
- Off-Topic Tavern
- Campaigns
- Homebrew Campaigns
- 4E Core World
- Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)
- Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)
- Dark Sun
- Gamma World
- D&D Products
- Reviews and Projections (enfolds Future Releases)
- Errata (combines all errata forums)
- Dragon and Dungeon online (combines Dragon/Dungeon General and Dragon/Dungeon Article Discussion)
- Online Tools (combines DDi Announcements, DDi General, Character Builder, Monster Builder, Technical Discussion, and Digital D&D)
- Board Games (combines Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath)
- D&D Miniatures, Skirmish game
- D&D HQ
- Community Business
- GSL
- D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)
- Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)
- Birthright
- Dragonlance
- Greyhawk
- Mystara
- Planescape
- Spelljammer
- d20
- Other RPGs
Steve
- Change: "Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)"
- to: "Vintage Rules Discussion"
- It says everything the explanatory note says without needing an explanatory note.
- Move: D&D General
- To: the bottom of that section
- To minimize the amount of accidental cross traffic.
Whose lousy idea was it to reorganize the forums!Oh... it was mine...
I generally like what you've done. i have a few questions...
- I assume the "Looking to Play D&D" forums will actually be links to those areas? Or are we creating new forums to be the repository and directory to other areas?
- Will Character Development, 4E Character Mechanics, and 4E Character Optimization be subforums of What's a Player to Do? (I hope you say "yes").
- Move What's a DM to Do? above What's a Player to Do?, like it is now.
- "Campaigns" should be "D&D Campaigns" just for consistency.
- Move 4e General Discussion to the bottom of D&D Community
- Move Off-Topic Tavern to the bottom of D&D HQ
- I disagree with Seeker that "Vintage General Discussion" should be renamed. While rules would be discussed there, it's not the only thing that would be discussed there. I assume, for example, that house rules could be discussed there, as well as table management issues, or locations to find out-of-print items.
- Think about renaming "Reviews and Projections". I have already twice mistakenly read "Reviews and Rejections". How about "Previews, Reviews, and Requests"?
- I assume the "Looking to Play D&D" forums will actually be links to those areas? Or are we creating new forums to be the repository and directory to other areas?
I'll echo this question - the Core Coliseum (and most/all of the other PbP groups in my sig) could benefit greatly from having a spot in the forums again - but I definitely don't want to move from being a group (we lost a lot of people from all of the forum reorgs, reconstructions and moves - I don't want to move again and lose what small community I have).
Right, but the confusion present in multi-edition worlds easily outweighs the small possibility that there's more than one King Kaius, Zagyg, Agis of Asticles, Elminster, Strahd, Lady of Pain or similar.
That was one example. What if I want to look up weapon breakage? The discussion woul dbe very different between Dark Sun and Planescape. What about planar travel? Dragonlance and Spelljammer would result in very different results.
And the fact that these front pages only go back a year doesn't mean anything. These forums are over four years old, and we should anticipate that they will eventually be over a decade old.
And what confusion is present in multi-edition worlds?! The 3e and 4e Eberron forums are already merged. As are 4e and 2e Dark Sun. We've never had forums that divie a world by edition. Ever.
The issue is what is gained by lumping Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Birthright, Greyhawk, Mystara, and Planescape together? Eliminating five forums that would only appear at the bottom of the list anyway? There is no benefit and there is a demonstrable drawback, in that when this has happened before there were many complaints and rancor.
If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.
Are you seriousy proposing we split the Eberron forums into Eberron 3e and Eberron 4e because of confusion? Why hasn't anybody complained of this problem in the three years the Eberron forums have been combined? Shoule we have seven Gamma World forums, one for each version?
The only suggested changes I have at this time are:
- Change: "Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)"
- to: "Vintage Rules Discussion"
- It says everything the explanatory note says without needing an explanatory note.
- Move: D&D General
- To: the bottom of that section
- To minimize the amount of accidental cross traffic.
I prefer the word "Legacy" over "Vintage" but that's just me.
Other than that little thing, I like the layout.
If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.
Are you seriousy proposing we split the Eberron forums into Eberron 3e and Eberron 4e because of confusion? Why hasn't anybody complained of this problem in the three years the Eberron forums have been combined? Shoule we have seven Gamma World forums, one for each version?
Agreed. If people are confused, a simple "4E" or "3E" prefix in the title eliminates all confusion. No need to have separate forums for each edition. The object is to condense the useless bloat.
These forums should remain separate from 4E exclusitivy.
* 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)
* 4E Character Optimization
I have a problem with these two. Mechanics and Optimization may not seem distinct enough from eachother. Also, Roles are a /very/ important concept in 4e, and having a place to discuss them is a good idea. Instead of 'character mechanics' maybe call it '4e Character Roles & Resources.' That makes it clearly different from Optimization, and could still encompass the same topics. In any case, a player wanting to discuss, understand or choose a Role should have a clear place to go.
That was one example. What if I want to look up weapon breakage? The discussion woul dbe very different between Dark Sun and Planescape. What about planar travel? Dragonlance and Spelljammer would result in very different results.
What about it. There aren't actually a lot of questions about it flying around. And the volume remains the ultimate measure of its importance; there's already a board for "other worlds", this just means it has more worlds in it.
And what confusion is present in multi-edition worlds?! The 3e and 4e Eberron forums are already merged. As are 4e and 2e Dark Sun. We've never had forums that divie a world by edition. Ever.
If anyone thinks they might have trouble telling apart the threads about one world and a different one, why don't they have trouble telling apart different editions of the same world? The answer to that tells you a lot about the issue we're discussing.
The issue is what is gained by lumping Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Birthright, Greyhawk, Mystara, and Planescape together? Eliminating five forums that would only appear at the bottom of the list anyway? There is no benefit and there is a demonstrable drawback, in that when this has happened before there were many complaints and rancor.
You mean complaints and rancor from all the people not producing any particularly large volume of activity with regard to any of those worlds? The gain is the reduction in the number of boards; if we didn't want to do that, this wouldn't be about which boards to merge, but which boards to put at the bottom of the list.
If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.
Are you seriousy proposing we split the Eberron forums into Eberron 3e and Eberron 4e because of confusion? Why hasn't anybody complained of this problem in the three years the Eberron forums have been combined? Shoule we have seven Gamma World forums, one for each version?
Once a given edition of a given world loses traffic volume, it joins the general board for vintage worlds. A newer edition of that world gets its own board and the cycle continues.
It means that as long as a given edition of that world remains active, it retains an independent board. Once it loses activity, it combines with the other worlds that have lost activity. We may have worlds that have been reborn in a new edition, but we don't have examples where an earlier edition of a world returns from the dead (in terms of activity).
We're going in circles. I'm not going to convince you. You've certainly not convinced me. I think we'll just have to let Steve and his crew decide if you've made the case for eliminating the Vintage World forums.
It's not going in circles if we continually address things in different ways, nor is it about "eliminating" the vintage worlds forms; it's about whether or not it takes the form of one board or many.
The boards are communities, not warehouses. Without active discussion they're nothing. A wasteland area of dead, empty boards related to past worlds is a bad idea. Put them together and you at least have an area where people talk collectively about those past worlds, even if they see a few things that aren't exactly what they came to find.
This could also be a great way to track interest or what needs new articles. Nothing new in the leader section for a few days? Uhm, anything new been posted in Dragon. People didnt seem to be playing Artificer. A nice article can out and I have read lots of examples. People were complaining about Vampires. I am waiting for the hybrid article to be placed in the CB.
Just please leave the easy, sortable, focused forums alone.
No mature section?
There hasn't been a "Mature Board" for quite some time now. Why would they bring it back?
We won't be deleting any threads, AFAIK. We should be able to combine forums without losing anything. The last thing we want is a reprise of the d20 fiasco from a few years ago.
Steve
+1 ... and PLEASE !!
Or, someone could make a new Astrid's Parlor group (mine was called "Astrid's Parlor Groupies", so they could just take the old forum name), if they wanted to take it on themselves. All I know is that I don't want to!
While I think that Astrid's had its place (and still has, actually), I believe that a consistent effort by those who didn't like the forum (and some moderation difficulties) eventually strangled any actual interaction there.
I don't think that you'll see the same threads talked about in General - maybe someone will try, but I believe that the environment will be hostile enough to shut that down quickly.
Anyway, if anyone would like to take over the Astrid's group, feel free to PM me. Or just start your own!
We'd like to avoid sub-forums as much as possible, which to me means entirely. If a topic draws enough traffic to merit a forum, then it deserves a place in the main lineup. Sub-forums just add confusion to the "where should I post" question.
Steve
I disagree with this premise. A well-labeled and organized forum/subforum structure can be quite easy to navigate and search.
I do agree that merging the several previous editions rules subforums (classes, spells, feats, etc) makes sense; many rules discussions span the various branches anyway. I am also pleased to see that the old settings retain their own forums, despite their relatively low traffic.
Most of all, let me thank you and the staff for being willing to bring this to the community in advance. This is already a significant improvement over the last time.
Most of all, let me thank you and the staff for being willing to bring this to the community in advance. This is already a significant improvement over the last time.
This is what they did the last time the D&D forums were organized too. I know this because I remember posting the same "Forum Reorganization Threads May Affect You" threads in each of the forums back then as well.
Most of all, let me thank you and the staff for being willing to bring this to the community in advance. This is already a significant improvement over the last time.
This is what they did the last time the D&D forums were organized too. I know this because I remember posting the same "Forum Reorganization Threads May Affect You" threads in each of the forums back then as well.
But not the time before that or the time before that. Both of those instances were more along the lines of "We're doing this for YOU, ungrateful wretches! WHY DON'T YOU LIKE IT?!?!?"
Then again, maybe that wasn't WotC's official position, just the unofficial position of the person they had in charge of the forums at the time. *shrug*
Either way, I'm with Napolean on this one. Thanks for asking for input.
This is already a significant improvement over the last time.
This is what they did the last time the D&D forums were organized too....
But not the time before that or the time before that.
That's true. But the last time we reorganized was three years ago, and that time forewarning was given. I just didn't want it to be implied that this sort of communication was a new phenomenon. It's been standard operating procedure for at least three years.
It's been standard operating procedure for at least three years.
The editor in me has to call this wording into question.
A standard operating procedure should not be given a duration reference until it has been actively occurring for a given period of time. Something that happened once does not have a duration reference. It has a frequency reference.
However, that both the previous and current re-orgs have included heads-up notices and community input requests is sufficient for me to call it standard operating procedure.
First, what happens to d20 Modern? This has come up twice, with the only addressment being Trappedslider's suggestion that the entire d20 section be left alone (which seems fine by me).
Second, if the Previous Editions boards are being merged, what happens to the stickies in the subforums? They remain useful, but usually only useful to that subforum. However, if they're unstickied, they're quickly lost to the Abyss.
Allow me to tell a tale: Ages ago when the Psionics board was one of the more active ones - yes, it was, don't laugh; it also had an obscenely high signal:noise ratio by WotC standards - it had a very high number of sticky threads, and Mark Jindra's solution was to create a single Master Index thread linking to all of them. The problem with that was that some of the links were SO useful they had to be re-stickied, and the ones that weren't re-stickied have since been pruned despite them being useful enough to include in the first place! This, combined with a low-visibility name ("Master Index") led to the eventual creation of a second "master index" (with a name including "READ THIS!") that was stickied along with some of the other invaluable (or super-popular) threads from the first failed attempt to consolidate them. Even then, several threads were lost (Just like other attempts to create "list" threads, most notably the Handy Links for CO Work, which is essentially dead due to utterly ridiculous pruning during the d20 fiasco).
I'd like to see this avoided if possible during consolidation, even as I agree the number of stickies should probably be kept low. If the Master Index approach is taken, with an appropriate name, and threads within have some administrative "DO NOT PRUNE" flag set, it may be an appropriate compromise for everyone. But I don't know what's possible with this software.
- D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)
- Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)
- Birthright
- Dragonlance
- Greyhawk
- Mystara
- Planescape
- Spelljammer
- d20
- Other RPGs
What is meant by "d20" on that list? "d20" isn't a world but still a rules chapter contrary to the section description? Is that meant to say "d20 Modern"? Is it meant to say "Other d20 Worlds"?
The only suggested changes I have at this time are:
- Change: "Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)"
- to: "Vintage Rules Discussion"
- It says everything the explanatory note says without needing an explanatory note.
- Move: D&D General
- To: the bottom of that section
- To minimize the amount of accidental cross traffic.
I really like these suggestions.
There are a few questions about the previous editions / d20 board merges that haven't been addressed.
First, what happens to d20 Modern? This has come up twice, with the only addressment being Trappedslider's suggestion that the entire d20 section be left alone (which seems fine by me).
Second, if the Previous Editions boards are being merged, what happens to the stickies in the subforums? They remain useful, but usually only useful to that subforum. However, if they're unstickied, they're quickly lost to the Abyss.
Allow me to tell a tale: Ages ago when the Psionics board was one of the more active ones - yes, it was, don't laugh; it also had an obscenely high signal:noise ratio by WotC standards - it had a very high number of sticky threads, and Mark Jindra's solution was to create a single Master Index thread linking to all of them. The problem with that was that some of the links were SO useful they had to be re-stickied, and the ones that weren't re-stickied have since been pruned despite them being useful enough to include in the first place! This, combined with a low-visibility name ("Master Index") led to the eventual creation of a second "master index" (with a name including "READ THIS!") that was stickied along with some of the other invaluable (or super-popular) threads from the first failed attempt to consolidate them. Even then, several threads were lost (Just like other attempts to create "list" threads, most notably the Handy Links for CO Work, which is essentially dead due to utterly ridiculous pruning during the d20 fiasco).
I'd like to see this avoided if possible during consolidation, even as I agree the number of stickies should probably be kept low. If the Master Index approach is taken, with an appropriate name, and threads within have some administrative "DO NOT PRUNE" flag set, it may be an appropriate compromise for everyone. But I don't know what's possible with this software.
I think the best bet is to move the content to the D&D Wiki. Then you just need one sticky with a link to the Wiki. I'm considering doing that with the D&D Glossary after the reorganization.
I think the best bet is to move the content to the D&D Wiki. Then you just need one sticky with a link to the Wiki. I'm considering doing that with the D&D Glossary after the reorganization.
Which one? I know of two, and both of them are wretched hives of houserules with ridiculously bad signal:noise, which makes them all but worthless as useful information repositories.
You're also underestimating the amount of information I'm talking about by quite a lot, unless you expect members to do a ridiculous amount of work just to stay where we currently are. This is especially true of the CO boards.
In fact, it was because of this - a massive loss of information (demonstrating flagrant disrespect from Wizards for fan effort) - that most of the old communities left during the d20 fiasco. I'm trying to figure out a way to avoid that while still going ahead with your proposed reorganization.
Which one? I know of two, and both of them are wretched hives of houserules with ridiculously bad signal:noise, which makes them all but worthless as useful information repositories.
This one.
You're also underestimating the amount of information I'm talking about by quite a lot, unless you expect members to do a ridiculous amount of work just to stay where we currently are. This is especially true of the CO boards.
All you need to do is create a page with links to all the relevant threads. You don't have to port the info over. As far as I know, they aren't planning to delete threads this time around. I agree that when they did that two reorginzations ago, it was disastrous.
I'm trying to figure out a way to avoid that while still going ahead with your proposed reorganization.
I think you may have me confused with WotC_Huscarl. I'm just a lowly forum guide. I have no inside info.
Which one? I know of two, and both of them are wretched hives of houserules with ridiculously bad signal:noise, which makes them all but worthless as useful information repositories.
This one.
Not one of the two I had known about; thanks.
You're also underestimating the amount of information I'm talking about by quite a lot, unless you expect members to do a ridiculous amount of work just to stay where we currently are. This is especially true of the CO boards.
All you need to do is create a page with links to all the relevant threads. You don't have to port the info over. As far as I know, they aren't planning to delete threads this time around. I agree that when they did that two reorginzations ago, it was disastrous.
Thank you again. I'd assumed I'd need to actually migrate the information.
I'm trying to figure out a way to avoid that while still going ahead with your proposed reorganization.
I think you may have me confused with WotC_Huscarl. I'm just a lowly forum guide. I have no inside info.
Not really, I was using the second-person plural "your" instead of the second-person singular "your". English has a -2 penalty to Linguistics checks for clarity.
This isn't aimed at Wrecan, but rather a fourth reiteration for WotC_Huscarl or anyone who does know: What's the fate of the d20 boards, vis-a-vis Character Optimization and d20 Modern? The answers so far appear to be hazy at best.
A quick count moments ago showed 18 d20 threads that have seen activity in the last week. If all of them were combined into a single forum, they'd all appear on page 1 with room left over for threads that have been inactive for a week or more.
That's the sort of metric that we're looking at when considering consolidation. When looked at that way, I see pulling all the d20 forums together as a plus, because fans could follow all of the activity by checking a single forum instead of clicking through three different ones. If enough new threads are created to keep pushing active threads off page 1, then multiple forums are called for.
Steve
Two other, quick topics (I don't want to stack too many things into one post, to simplify responses).
We have no desire to delete any existing threads.
Moving D&D General to the bottom of the list is an interesting notion, but IMO it falls into the category of things that solve a one-time problem by creating a recurring one. It helps people the first few times they come to the forum … but then it annoys everyone, every time they come back, by making them scroll to the bottom of the list to find the thing they want. Every time. Bottom of the list. Every time. So it seems preferable to keep the most-used forum in the handiest location and steer newcomers toward appropriate forums in a politely helpful manner.
Steve
- D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)
- Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)
- Birthright
- Dragonlance
- Greyhawk
- Mystara
- Planescape
- Spelljammer
- d20
- Other RPGs
What is meant by "d20" on that list? "d20" isn't a world but still a rules chapter contrary to the section description? Is that meant to say "d20 Modern"? Is it meant to say "Other d20 Worlds"?
Currently d20 falls under the vague heading "RPGs," which contains only one generic, non-d20 forum. We'd like to gather everything that predates 4E into a single area, and that includes d20. "D&D Vintage" may not be the right label for that; we leaned toward the bigger of the two areas that would be consolidated.
Steve
Concerning the d20 forums:
A quick count moments ago showed 18 d20 threads that have seen activity in the last week. If all of them were combined into a single forum, they'd all appear on page 1 with room left over for threads that have been inactive for a week or more.
That's the sort of metric that we're looking at when considering consolidation. When looked at that way, I see pulling all the d20 forums together as a plus, because fans could follow all of the activity by checking a single forum instead of clicking through three different ones. If enough new threads are created to keep pushing active threads off page 1, then multiple forums are called for.
Steve
I just took a look and 17 threads in d20 CharOps alone say "1 week ago" or sooner. And that is the separate d20 forum that sees the most traffic, and the one that most of us are asking about. Is it possible to keep that one separate from the rest of the d20 boards?
I just took a look and 17 threads in d20 CharOps alone say "1 week ago" or sooner. And that is the separate d20 forum that sees the most traffic, and the one that most of us are asking about. Is it possible to keep that one separate from the rest of the d20 boards?
"1 week ago" means 8-14 days; i.e., more than a week old. Anything newer than that will indicate up to 7 days ago.
As of 60 seconds ago, I see 10 threads in CharOp, 7 in d20 Modern, and none in Character Development that have been accessed in the last 7 days.
None of that means no one is using the d20 forums or that we have no regard for them. It means that putting them under a single heading won't cause anything to be pushed off the front page so quickly that it gets missed. At least, that's our viewpoint.
Steve
Steve
Putting 4 board games - Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath - in to a single forum is a bad idea. What happens when Waterdeep is released?
We have plenty of rules questions and people trying to post in those areas - if they can find them. I like the idea of a "Board Games" header but is it out of the question to continue to give each forum its own space?
The same argument applies here as to d20, only moreso. The number of active threads in the individual boardgame forums is so low that they look dead. People who might be attracted to those forums can actually be discouraged by the low traffic. Bringing them together livens up the place and creates more cross-chatter.
That's triply true in the case of the three D&D boardgames, since they all use the same basic rules to begin with. A rules question or strategy suggestion about one of those games is likely to apply to all three. Combining them into one forum would increase the number of people who see every question, cut down on the number of redundant questions in the separate forums, and make life easier for those who currently play two or all three of the games.
That being said, we do have more boardgames in the works, some of which are quite different from Ravenloft/Ashardalon/Drizzt, so this isn't a closed issue at all.
Steve
the Core Coliseum (and most/all of the other PbP groups in my sig) could benefit greatly from having a spot in the forums again - but I definitely don't want to move from being a group (we lost a lot of people from all of the forum reorgs, reconstructions and moves - I don't want to move again and lose what small community I have).
Also - what is to happen to all of the old material in the old CoCo forum? (I'd love to see it moved into the Group's forum, but if it needs to go away, I guess I'll just save as much as I can)
Good questions.
As noted before, we don't intend to delete anything if there's any way to avoid it. You'll have to forgive me for hedging a bit here -- I've been inadvertently turned into a liar too many times in the past to be comfortable speaking in absolutes -- but we really, really don't want to delete anything, and so far, we see no obstacles to finding a home for everything.
Also, WotC_Michelle is looking into the feasibility of mirroring certain group forums in the main forums (seems to me someone suggested that earlier in this thread, but I don't have the time to page backward and offer due props; take a bow, whoever you are). That would mean, for example, that the CoCo forums could appear both in the CoCo group and under a "Mirrored Group Forums" heading in these main D&D forums. Posts made in either area would show up in both. This would make public groups far more visible to the community at large, probably boost membership, and (I think) make life a bit easier by cutting down the amount of clicking involved if you want to read public threads and group threads. I won't guarantee anything, but as of my last conversation with Michelle, the tech looks promising.
Steve
"GSL" should be renamed "GSL and Third-Party Publishers". People may not know what "GSL" stands for, but people can generally figure out what a third-party publisher is, and the GSL is pretty much made only for them.
An excellent suggestion. I never cared for the "GSL" label to begin with.
Steve
My suggested changes in bold.
Lots of good suggestions here.
eliminate two headers, add a "board & miniatures games" header, and rename and move a couple forums.
Creating a separate "D&D Board and Miniatures Games" area is solid. I've also pulled Digital D&D out of the online tools area, because it didn't belong there to begin with. As more computer, online, console, and Facebook games accumulate under the D&D banner, they should have a dedicated area for discussion.
The Wizards Community business forum and GSL forum seem to be more at home under the D&D products banner.
I'm not entirely happy with their placement in my outline, but I don't think Products is right, either. At least not for Community Business; "GSL and Third-Party Publishers" could find a home there ... leaving poor Community Business all alone and wondering where to sit.
I think the Vintage Campaign Settings seem more at home near the Homebrew Campaign Settings forum under the general "Campaigns" banner, where they now sport "Vintage" as part of their forum titles. Vintage rules have been moved to the D&D Community header, and are now just a step above the D&D Community "Off Topic" forum (I'm a vintage D&D fan, and I can laugh a bit about that.) Would some of the Vintage settings with few discussions (e.g., Birthright, Oriental Adventures) be best retired into the general vintage setting folder?
The three "Adventure System" boardgames, Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, and Legend of Drizzt could really easily be wrapped up into one forum: the rules for all three can be covered by the same errata and Q&A, and most people who own one will be combining it with one or more of the others. I think the combined Adventure System boardgames would be right at home next door to the forum for Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures. However, Conquest of Nerath seems to be a completely different animal, and I think it should ideally keep its own forum, separate from the other three boardgames.
I like combining the Eberron and Forgotten Realms sub-forums into one forum for each campaign world. Not so sure about shuffling the other settings off to the Vintage Ghetto, though - keep them under Campaigns, and change the names of each of the vintage forums so they are easier to spot ("Vintage - Planescape", for example). I think these would be right at home nearby the Homebrow Campaign Setting forum. I didn't spot a Ravenloft campaign setting forum in the list... was it left out accidentally?
By all means, funnel all the D&D Vintage rules discussions into a single Vintage Rules Ghetto, under the D&D Community header.
Moving D&D General to the bottom of the list is an interesting notion, but IMO it falls into the category of things that solve a one-time problem by creating a recurring one. It helps people the first few times they come to the forum … but then it annoys everyone, every time they come back, by making them scroll to the bottom of the list to find the thing they want. Every time. Bottom of the list. Every time.
The counter to this is that most of us to whom this might apply are already going all over the Boards anyway.
Additionally, the request is not "Bottom of the list". The request is "Bottom of D&D Community" (or anywhere in that group other than "Top of D&D Community"). I think a case could be made for it being above "Off Topic Tavern", but I have no horse in that race.
Concerning the d20 forums:
A quick count moments ago showed 18 d20 threads that have seen activity in the last week. If all of them were combined into a single forum, they'd all appear on page 1 with room left over for threads that have been inactive for a week or more.
That's the sort of metric that we're looking at when considering consolidation. When looked at that way, I see pulling all the d20 forums together as a plus, because fans could follow all of the activity by checking a single forum instead of clicking through three different ones. If enough new threads are created to keep pushing active threads off page 1, then multiple forums are called for.
Steve
I would oppose this. d20 Modern is a setting as much as a system, and should be included - if anywhere - in the Vintage Worlds system. They're already the red-headed stepchild (politely) of Wizards, and giving them the shaft by mixing their discussion in with CO (and diluting the CO discussion in the process) just flips the bird at everyone involved.
I can see Character Development (if it's that inactive) being rolled in somewhere, but in Optimization? What made that forum worth using was the very high Signal:Noise ratio. You look at nearly any page and I can wager that a minimum of five threads will be handbooks or threads discussing important builds or tactics. Rolling in Character Development there is an illogical place for it, and will FURTHER decrease the S/N ratio. (The reason most of the community left during the earlier fiasco was when most of our work from there was deleted. I know that's not going to happen this time... but deleting threads is essentially the same idea as decreasing the useful signal.)
Having all the active threads in one place is a useful goal. Having all of them in a logical place is stated to be the other useful goal. If no one is active in Character Development - which, by the way, is system-independent and therefore as applicable to 4e as to earlier editions - it could literally be rolled in with Dark Sun (say) and have the same effect on the first goal, but wouldn't solve the second.
Concerning the d20 forums:
A quick count moments ago showed 18 d20 threads that have seen activity in the last week. If all of them were combined into a single forum, they'd all appear on page 1 with room left over for threads that have been inactive for a week or more.
That's the sort of metric that we're looking at when considering consolidation. When looked at that way, I see pulling all the d20 forums together as a plus, because fans could follow all of the activity by checking a single forum instead of clicking through three different ones. If enough new threads are created to keep pushing active threads off page 1, then multiple forums are called for.
Steve
I would oppose this. d20 Modern is a setting as much as a system, and should be included - if anywhere - in the Vintage Worlds system. They're already the red-headed stepchild (politely) of Wizards, and giving them the shaft by mixing their discussion in with CO (and diluting the CO discussion in the process) just flips the bird at everyone involved.
.
It hsould be also noted that the SW players still have ALL of thire forums,despite ANOTHER company holding the rights to make a minitures game and an RPG....so i don't see why the D20 modern Forum can't stick aorund in it's current forum even if it's rolled under the catagory of vintage
I would oppose this. d20 Modern is a setting as much as a system, and should be included - if anywhere - in the Vintage Worlds system.
This is a valid and interesting point, and we'll reexamine the situation from that perspective. Doesn't mean we'll change our minds, but we'll take a second look under that light.
Steve
Also, WotC_Michelle is looking into the feasibility of mirroring certain group forums in the main forums (seems to me someone suggested that earlier in this thread, but I don't have the time to page backward and offer due props; take a bow, whoever you are). That would mean, for example, that the CoCo forums could appear both in the CoCo group and under a "Mirrored Group Forums" heading in these main D&D forums. Posts made in either area would show up in both. This would make public groups far more visible to the community at large, probably boost membership, and (I think) make life a bit easier by cutting down the amount of clicking involved if you want to read public threads and group threads. I won't guarantee anything, but as of my last conversation with Michelle, the tech looks promising.
That's good news. I just want to underscore that someone should talk to the Living Forgotten Realms admins (who receive some payment from WotC for running the campaign) as to what is best regarding the old forum threads vs. their new Group forum threads.
Board Business
D&D Rules
For Players
For DMs
Upcoming Releases
D&D General
I've always wondered if an oversimplified version would ever work.
Board Business
D&D Rules
For Players
For DMs
Upcoming Releases
D&D General
Nope. Rules sets are too different, plus you'd just be asking for Edition Wars. ;)
We'd like to avoid sub-forums as much as possible, which to me means entirely. If a topic draws enough traffic to merit a forum, then it deserves a place in the main lineup. Sub-forums just add confusion to the "where should I post" question.
Steve
I can get behind that as a motivation, but I remind you of Albert Einstein: Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler.
For instance, under this system, the d20 Character Optimization forum (a place of pure mechanical help aimed primarily at D&D 3.5) would be merged with the Character Development forum (pure story), the d20 Modern forum (story and lore of a completely different system, which never gets enough support on its own and shoehorning it in here will just sweep it under the rug), and the RPG General board (which is pure off-topic compared to the other three, and has served as a dumping ground for 4e-comparison threads by the community supervisors' own admission). These have nothing to do with each other and will only make finding key threads harder - which is of particular concern on the CO boards, especially after the d20 fiasco a few years ago and forum pruning resorted in losing (and I sincerely wish I were joking here) lifetimes of man-hours of work on the system. (At one point, that board in particular was considered valuable by WotC - several of us were actually recruited by Wizards to give 4e its first stab at true optimization, strictly because we loved the game and were good at spotting mechanical synergies. We couldn't have done that if we didn't have a good resource for this, and one of the hallmarks of that was the high signal:noise ratio on the CO boards.)
I also have a semi-related question: What will happen to sticky threads in subforums that are merged? In the Previous Editions forums (which will become Vintage Rules Discussion, I believe), for instance, you find a number of very useful sticky threads... but they're most useful for the subforum in question.
+1
It's been mentioned, and I agree, that the description for the Future Releases forum (or whatever it's called) should be amended to make clear that the forum is only for speculation about [new titles for] the current edition.
but not in that smarmy way it is most frequently used.It's time to look at reorganizing the forums.
Back in April, Wrecan opened up a thread to kick around different organizational ideas. That thread generated a host of good ideas. We took those, melded them with our own, and churned out what you see below.
This is not a final outline&mda**** a starting point for you to offer more feedback. We want to combine and streamline wherever possible, with the aim of making it easier to find the type of conversation you want. With that as a guiding principle, we've pared down to this outline. I'd like to get it even smaller, but we don't want to be so vicious that no one recognizes the place.
A few explanatory notes and questions we'd really like feedback on:
What's a Player to Do? is a prime candidate for folding into 4E General Discussion. It's kept separate here because WaPtD is fairly busy, and we don't want to overload 4E General. That doesn't alter the fact that those two forums have a lot of overlap.
Astrid's Parlor is folded into 4E General. AP was strong for a while, but its traffic has fallen and we feel its audience would be best served by joining the main forum.
There was discussion of combining the D&D and M:tG off-topic areas into a single forum outside the brand categories; they're off-topic, after all. For now, though, we've kept the OTT as-is.
We considered combining all of the D&D Previous Editions forums into a single Vintage forum, since some of them don't get much use, but decided instead to separate by worlds.
- Looking to Play D&D?
- Organized Play
- Living Forgotten Realms
- RPG Gamer Classifieds
- Play-by-Post (including the Virtual Table)
- Core Coliseum
- D&D Community
- 4E General Discussion (combines Astrid's Parlor)
- 4E Rules Q&A
- What's a Player to Do?
- Character Development
- 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)
- 4E Character Optimization
- What's a DM to Do? (combines Races and Monsters and Combat, Traps, Terrain, and Tactics)
- Off-Topic Tavern
- Campaigns
- Homebrew Campaigns
- 4E Core World
- Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)
- Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)
- Dark Sun
- Gamma World
- D&D Products
- Reviews and Projections (enfolds Future Releases)
- Errata (combines all errata forums)
- Dragon and Dungeon online (combines Dragon/Dungeon General and Dragon/Dungeon Article Discussion)
- Online Tools (combines DDi Announcements, DDi General, Character Builder, Monster Builder, Technical Discussion, and Digital D&D)
- Board Games (combines Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath)
- D&D Miniatures, Skirmish game
- D&D HQ
- Community Business
- GSL
- D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)
- Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)
- Birthright
- Dragonlance
- Greyhawk
- Mystara
- Planescape
- Spelljammer
- d20
- Other RPGs
Steve
I am a huge fan of system 3.5 I have played them all including 4 but have always come back to 3.5 actually I have to say that I don’t much care for system 4 but that is not the point here. I really like the previous editions page and would like there to be a forum for those of us that hold dear to the past. Please in your reorganization of the website leave a previous ED page for us. Thanks for asking our opinions I love your site. Also I like to meld aspects of the different role playing worlds so I don’t necessarily like the idea of organization by world that you mentioned as a possibility. That is just my 2 cents.
I do not want to censor them or anything, or punish them mightly - some posters where actually embarassed, polite and nice, but at times, it create confusion and all. Could there be a Report to Mods to be Moved link added in the Report stuff range if there is not, or mods make an official sticky or such clearly showing 'those forums are for edition X - current or past'?
It would help both sides if things where clarified.
One of the annoyances of the current arrangement is the lengthy scrolling that's necessary to get from point to point in the index. While the consolidation will help, we're still likely to have a fair bit of scrolling to do if it's left in a list format.
The 'number of posts/threads' entries and maybe even the 'last poster' entry could probably disappear from a grid-based index, or just be shrunk down into subscript.
Instead or in addition, making the descriptive blurbs into hover-popups (rather than being shown directly in the index list) would be another way to conserve space in the forum index.
Something like:
D&D Help Desk:
- Find Players Here
- Player Advice
- DM Advice
- Rules Q&A
D&D Community:
- Community Business
- D&D General
- Character Building (Optimizing/Develpment)
- Campaign Building (Houserules/Official - Building/running game and setting)
- Off Topic Tavern
Settings:
- Core World
- Dark Sun
- Eberron
- Forgotten Realms
- Gamma World
D&D Products:
- Reviews and Projections
- GSL
- Errata
- Dragon & Dungeon Online
- D&D Online Tools
- Board Games
- D&D Minis
Vintage D&D
- (List as suggested)
While I have an agenda as GM of the Core Coliseum, I still feel this is an important part of the forum.
Wizards.COMmunity
General Gaming
Maplestory
Avalon Hill
Mirrorstone
Dreamblade
M:tG
M:tG Online
Star Wars
D&D Miniatures
D&D
DCI
RPGA
Duel Masters
It seems to me that these should get condensed:
Wizards.COMmunity (enfolding General Gaming and DCI)
M:tG
M:tG Online (which seems active enough to remain separate from M:tG)
D&D (enfolding D&D Miniatures and RPGA)
Avalon Hill
Other Products (combining Mirrorstone, Star Wars, Duel Masters, Dreamblade, and Maplestory)
Other than RPGA and D&D Minis (which are already part of my proposal for the D&D forums), I wouldn't eliminate any of the actual forums (though each of the five categories combined into Other Products could probably use some consolidation). I would just move them into these categories.
There's no reason for DCI or defunct brands like Star Wars and Duel Masters to be on the main forums page. It makes the page seem woefully out of date.
Other Products (combining Mirrorstone, Star Wars, Duel Masters, Dreamblade, and Maplestory)
Other than RPGA and D&D Minis (which are already part of my proposal for the D&D forums), I wouldn't eliminate any of the actual forums (though each of the five categories combined into Other Products could probably use some consolidation). I would just move them into these categories.
There's no reason for DCI or defunct brands like Star Wars and Duel Masters to be on the main forums page. It makes the page seem woefully out of date.
I've already asked about the future of the SW forums since Fantasy Flight has the rights and I never did get a response and that VCL I belive has jumped ship without a replacement being picked.
EDIT: if we're going to cut down on forums why not jsut go all the way
D&D
Magic
Not D&D or Magic
EDIT: if we're going to cut down on forums why not jsut go all the way
D&D
Magic
Not D&D or Magic
The "Other Products" forum held the now-defunct lines of Mirrorstone, Duel Masters, Star Wars, Dreamblade, and Maplestory, none of which have seen a new release in over a year.
Avalon Hill is not defunct (though I worry for its future with Rich Baker and Steve Winters leaving). It should stay. And M:tG Online is a robust enough section to warrant it remaining separate from M:tG proper.
So, yeah, it's essentially
Community Forums
Magic Forums
Magic Online Forums
D&D Forums
Avalon Hill Forums
Defunct Product Line Forums
And as much as I'd like it not to be the case, I think Avalon Hill will, in the next few years, be joining the Defunct Product Lines. For better or worse, Wizards has two money-makers: Magic and D&D.
Edited to add: Just look at the bottom of your screen to see what Wizards Brands are considered active. I see buttons for Magic, Magic Online, D&D, Avalon Hill, and Duel Masters (discontinued in 2006). There is no link to Mirrorstone (last release back in August), Star Wars (discontinued in May 2010), Dreamblade(discontinued in 2007), or Maplestory (discontinued years ago). Why? Because they're dead.
And there's a link for Heroscape, which, for some reason, has it's community on a third-party site. (And was discontinued in November anyway.)
Looks like the spoiler quote did not capture wrecan's layout.
Yeah, I edited the post and put it back up to avoid that issue. Thanks for the heads up.
D&D: Looking to Play?
- Organized Play: .54 threads/day (based on D&D Group Forum posts)
- RPGA and Living Forgotten Realms: 2.4/day
- Find or Fill a Table: 3.3/day
- Play-by-Post: .9.
D&D: Community
- What's a DM to Do?: 12/day
- What's a Player to Do? 18/day
- 4e Rules Q&A 13/day
- 4e Character Optimization 22/day
- 4e Other Discussion 10/day
- Community Business 1.1/day
- Off-Topic Tavern 4/day
D&D: Products
- 4e Reviews and Speculations 9/day
- 4e Errata 2/day
- Online Content 10/day
- Board, Miniature, Skirmish, and Digital Games: 6/day
- 4e Third-Party Products: 10/day
D&D: Campaign Worlds
- Homebrew Campaigns: 2.5/day
- 4e Core World no data
- Forgotten Realms: 2/day
- Eberron: 1.8/day
- Dark Sun: 1.1/day
- Gamma World: .42/day
D&D: Vintage
- Vintage General Discussion: 14/day
- Other RPGs: .5/day
- Vintage and Other Character Optimization: 5.3/day
- Birthright: .017/day
- d20 Modern: 1/day
- Dragonlance: .1/day
- Greyhawk: .09/day
- Mystara: .16/day
- Planescape: .04/day
- Spelljammer: .13/day
i) given that neverwinter and menzoberranzan are--or will be--campaign settings, should they be entitled to dedicated forums under "d&d: campaign worlds" or are they more appropriately addressed within the Forgotten Realms forum?
ii) wrecan created a helpful thread entitled "Where to Post (or Hey, Who Moved My Thread)?". might it be worthwhile to include an applicable helpful description at the top of each forum, similar in nature to wrecan's descriptions? EDIT: i realize that such descriptions already exist on the main forums page and perhaps obviate the need for them to appear within the subforums as well, but perhaps not.
It looks good. I'll reiterate that someone should check with the LFR admins to make sure that they want the old RPGA threads moved over, and that the Group threads will (or perhaps will not) be brought over. Right now the old RPGA area is dead/old except for a handful of useful threads. The real activity is on the LFR Group, and I don't know if they want to leave the group to come to this area. If they don't, then this would just all make more trouble for them.
The RPGA and LFR thread should have a sicky thread with a link to the LFR Group.
I would posit those should be included in the FR Forum.
ii) wrecan created a helpful thread entitled "Where to Post (or Hey, Who Moved My Thread)?". might it be worthwhile to include an applicable helpful description at the top of each forum, similar in nature to wrecan's descriptions?
I agree. We already have a sticky in the What's a Player to Do? and What's a DM to Do? forums. There should be a similar sticky for each of the forums in the Looking to Play?, Community, and Products categories.
i) given that neverwinter and menzoberranzan are--or will be--campaign settings, should they be entitled to dedicated forums under "d&d: campaign worlds" or are they more appropriately addressed within the Forgotten Realms forum?
I would posit those should be included in the FR Forum.
This, please.
It looks good. I'll reiterate that someone should check with the LFR admins to make sure that they want the old RPGA threads moved over, and that the Group threads will (or perhaps will not) be brought over. Right now the old RPGA area is dead/old except for a handful of useful threads. The real activity is on the LFR Group, and I don't know if they want to leave the group to come to this area. If they don't, then this would just all make more trouble for them.
The RPGA and LFR thread should have a sicky thread with a link to the LFR Group.
Again, please check with the LFR admins. I would guess that they will not want this at all, and maybe Wizards OP, if they knew about it, might not want it.
The reason is that right now all information and discussion is through the Group. They have in the past said they want to kill the old RPGA forum. Creating a new forum suggests to the audience that that is the place for discussion, but if the place is the group, we are just creating confusion.
I can only say it this way, because I'm not an LFR admin: Please check with the LFR admins before you create the above structure!
It looks good. I'll reiterate that someone should check with the LFR admins to make sure that they want the old RPGA threads moved over, and that the Group threads will (or perhaps will not) be brought over. Right now the old RPGA area is dead/old except for a handful of useful threads. The real activity is on the LFR Group, and I don't know if they want to leave the group to come to this area. If they don't, then this would just all make more trouble for them.
The RPGA and LFR thread should have a sicky thread with a link to the LFR Group.
Again, please check with the LFR admins. I would guess that they will not want this at all, and maybe Wizards OP, if they knew about it, might not want it.
The reason is that right now all information and discussion is through the Group. They have in the past said they want to kill the old RPGA forum. Creating a new forum suggests to the audience that that is the place for discussion, but if the place is the group, we are just creating confusion.
I can only say it this way, because I'm not an LFR admin: Please check with the LFR admins before you create the above structure!
speaking of that you might also wanna check with the WPN folks too,since there's a WPN group too...
The entire RPGA section is essentially defunct and it makes the RPGA look like they are inactive. I don't care what you do with it. Merge the forums here, delete them altogether, rent out the space to the OTTers. But the status quo is embarrassing.
And to repeat: nothing is proposed with respect to the WPN forums over in the DCI category. All we've proposed is a new forum where people who play D&D through Encounters, Lair Assault, and other venues can talk about their experiences and ask questions of one another. Since WPN is mostly about Magic, it should stay in the DCI area
though separately...
I see no reason there should even be a separate DCI supercategory. It should get moved lock, stock, and barrel as a category in the Wizards.COMmunity supercategory, along with the Community HQ category that's already there, and, from the General Gaming supercategory, the forums in the General Gaming HP and Creative Corner categories.
All other forums in Wizards.COMmunity and General Gaming supercategories should be sent to archives, except the various Marketplaces, which, like I've proposed for D&D, should be moved to their respective parent forums.
The remaining supercategories -- Mirrorstone, Star Wars, Duelmasters, Dreamblade and Maplestory -- should be combined into a supercategory of its own, like "Other Products".
Then rework the GUI at the top of the forums queue to reflect that there are now six supercategories: Wizards.COMmunity, Magic, Magic Online, D&D, Avalon Hill, and Other Products.
I see no reason there should even be a separate DCI supercategory. It should get moved lock, stock, and barrel as a category in the Wizards.COMmunity supercategory, along with the Community HQ category that's already there, and, from the General Gaming supercategory, the forums in the General Gaming HP and Creative Corner categories.
All other forums in Wizards.COMmunity and General Gaming supercategories should be sent to archives, except the various Marketplaces, which, like I've proposed for D&D, should be moved to their respective parent forums.
The remaining supercategories -- Mirrorstone, Star Wars, Duelmasters, Dreamblade and Maplestory -- should be combined into a supercategory of its own, like "Other Products".
Then rework the GUI at the top of the forums queue to reflect that there are now six supercategories: Wizards.COMmunity, Magic, Magic Online, D&D, Avalon Hill, and Other Products.
The entire RPGA section is essentially defunct and it makes the RPGA look like they are inactive. I don't care what you do with it. Merge the forums here, delete them altogether, rent out the space to the OTTers.
they will only take it if the CoC doesn't apply
Name change of "Find or fill a table" to "Find a game or players". "Table" suggests only the D&D Virtual Table.
The entire RPGA section is essentially defunct and it makes the RPGA look like they are inactive. I don't care what you do with it. Merge the forums here, delete them altogether, rent out the space to the OTTers.
they will only take it if the CoC is applied and enforced fairly
Two changes I've suggested - Put the What's a Player to Do above the What's a DM to do- (There are more players than DMs...)
Name change of "Find or fill a table" to "Find a game or players". "Table" suggests only the D&D Virtual Table.
I like the latter suggestion (but admit I have a pro-DM bias for the former suggestion. Still either Find or Fill a Table or Find a Game or Players is more descriptive than RPG Gamer Classifieds.
My own personal vote would be to proceed as planned. We have a while yet (probably) and we can only learn from the structure by implementing it now.
We could argue for a place for D&D Next discussion, but I think the new group for that might handle that sufficiently.
Got for Wrecan's proposal as a test to see how that format (smaller number of forums) works.
Just a note that the next edition doesn't have a name. 5E is likely incorrect. "D&D Next" is the placeholder for now.
My own personal vote would be to proceed as planned. We have a while yet (probably) and we can only learn from the structure by implementing it now.
We could argue for a place for D&D Next discussion, but I think the new group for that might handle that sufficiently.
yeah its getting called 5e, i doubt that will ever change no matter what they call it
D&D: Looking to Play?
- Organized Play
Discuss the Wizards Play Network, Encounters, and other games organized by Wizards. - RPGA and Living Forgotten Realms
Join the discussion on the 4th Edition RPGA campaign set in the heroic fantasy world of Faerûn! - Find or Fill a Table
Seek out a game near you, or for a player to fill an opening in your game. - Play-by-Post (new!)
Play online. Advertise for players or shop for a game here, with links to the Core Coliseum and the other private and public groups dedicated to online roleplay.
D&D: Community
- What's a Player to Do?
Seek guidance and advice from your peers, whether you have questions on rules, character building, sticky in-game scenarios, or difficult out-of-game situations (and everything in between). No problem or question is too difficult! - What's a DM to Do?
Give or receive help on table management, house rules, adventure planning, and player relations, or use the forum as a sounding board for any and all ideas you have for your Dungeons & Dragons campaign! Your peers await! - 4e Rules Q&A
If you want a no-nonsense discussion about what a rule means or where it can be found, ask your question here. - 4e Character Optimization
Maximize your character's potential, show off your optimization skills, or get help crunching the numbers here. - 4e Other Discussion
Can't find a spot for your question? Post your question about Fourth Edition here. - Community Business
Discuss what's happening on the forums and other community business. - Off-Topic Tavern
Hang out and talk about non-gaming topics with fellow gamers.
D&D: Products
- Reviews and Speculations
Want to discuss what's now, or speculate about what's next, in Dungeons & Dragons? Discuss releases and teasers, as well as your hopes for the future of the game. - 4e Errata
Find or propose errata for any Fourth Edition release here. - Online Content
Discuss Dungeon and Dragon articles, the Compendium, Character Builder, Monster Builder, and other online tools, as well as all the other content that can be found on the official website for Dungeons & Dragons. - Board, Miniature, Skirmish, and Digital Games
Discuss all of the non-RPG products in the Dungeons & Dragons brand, including the board games, skirmish games, and digital adaptations of the game. - 4e Third-Party Products
Wizards isn't the only purveyor of Fourth Edition-compatible products. Find out what other publishers are doing, or ask questions about the Game System License that helps you produce your own content for Fourth Edition.
D&D: Campaign Worlds
- Homebrew Campaigns
The most popular campaign world is yours. Workshop ideas for your own campaign or mine the threads for inspiration from your fellow homebrewers. - 4e Core World
The Nentir Vale and its surrounding lands and planes await you. Discuss the campaign setting created for Fourth Edition here. - Forgotten Realms
The lands of Faerûn are a place of great heroes and stark evil, encompassing lands of magic, mystery, and high peril. - Eberron
The Eberron setting combines traditional medieval fantasy with pulp action and dark adventure mixed with a dash of noir flavor. - Dark Sun
Dark Sun is set on a desert planet where magic harms the environment, gods don't exist, and psionics is commonplace. - Gamma World
Earth. After the apocalypse. Never mind the radiation—you’re gonna like it here. Discuss the world and gameplay of the D&D Gamma World Roleplaying Game.
D&D: Vintage
- Vintage General Discussion
Discuss the previous editions of Dungeons of Dragons - Other RPGs
For RPG conversation, including general d20 discussion. - Vintage and Other Character Optimization
Maximize your character's potential and get help crunching the numbers here. - Birthright
In this classic medieval fantasy setting, descendants of the survivors of a fatal war between the gods control churches, guilds, and nations through the power inherent in their blood. - d20 Modern
d20 Modern is an unbelievably flexible D&D setting that allows you to create and play exciting adventures set in the modern world. - Dragonlance
Dragonlance is a romantic fantasy setting detailed in the best-selling novels by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman - Greyhawk
The original D&D setting, created from the mind of Gary Gygax himself. - Mystara
The house of all things related to the Outer World and the Hollow World, from D&D co-founder Dave Arneson. - Planescape
Sigil, City of Doors, and the planes of the Great Wheel beckon you to intrigue and adventure. - Spelljammer
Hoist the sails of your Spelljammer and trek across the multiverse
Though I have a feeling "5e Reviews & Speculations", "5e Rules Q&A", "5e Character Optimization", "5e Other Discussion", "5e Errata", "5e Third-Party Products" and "5e Core World" will probably work just fine.
We should not use 5E, as that isn't the name of the edition. My recommendation is either no forum yet or just a forum that leads straight through to the D&D Next group.
Edit: My understanding is that the LFR forum will now be a passthrough of some sort to take people straight to the LFR group, so that may be a good tactic here as well.
Something else to note. We're going to pull the future release forum out of it's current area into it's own forum. We're doing this so we can mirror it in the "D&D Next" group so that if someone reads or posts in the group or the main forum area, it will be visible in both. There will also likely be specific forums for actual feedback of the playtests and other information once we get some content rolling and people have something to chew on and talk about.
D&D: Next
- Reviews and Speculations
Want to discuss what's now or speculate about what's next in Dungeons & Dragons? Discuss releases and teasers, as well as your hopes for the future of Fourth Edition and what comes Next.
D&D: Looking to Play?
- Organized Play
Discuss the Wizards Play Network, Encounters, and other games organized by Wizards. - RPGA and Living Forgotten Realms
Join the discussion on the 4th Edition RPGA campaign set in the heroic fantasy world of Faerûn! - Find or Fill a Table
Seek out a game near you, or for a player to fill an opening in your game. - Play-by-Post (new!)
Play online. Advertise for players or shop for a game here, with links to the Core Coliseum and the other private and public groups dedicated to online roleplay.
D&D: Community
- What's a Player to Do?
Seek guidance and advice from your peers, whether you have questions on rules, character building, sticky in-game scenarios, or difficult out-of-game situations (and everything in between). No problem or question is too difficult! - What's a DM to Do?
Give or receive help on table management, house rules, adventure planning, and player relations, or use the forum as a sounding board for any and all ideas you have for your Dungeons & Dragons campaign! Your peers await! - 4e Rules Q&A
If you want a no-nonsense discussion about what a rule means or where it can be found, ask your question here. - 4e Character Optimization
Maximize your character's potential, show off your optimization skills, or get help crunching the numbers here. - 4e Other Discussion
Can't find a spot for your question? Post your question about Fourth Edition here. - Community Business
Discuss what's happening on the forums and other community business. - Off-Topic Tavern
Hang out and talk about non-gaming topics with fellow gamers.
D&D: Products
- 4e Errata
Find or propose errata for any Fourth Edition release here. - Online Content
Discuss Dungeon and Dragon articles, the Compendium, Character Builder, Monster Builder, and other online tools, as well as all the other content that can be found on the official website for Dungeons & Dragons. - Board, Miniature, Skirmish, and Digital Games
Discuss all of the non-RPG products in the Dungeons & Dragons brand, including the board games, skirmish games, and digital adaptations of the game. - 4e Third-Party Products
Wizards isn't the only purveyor of Fourth Edition-compatible products. Find out what other publishers are doing, or ask questions about the Game System License that helps you produce your own content for Fourth Edition.
D&D: Campaign Worlds
- Homebrew Campaigns
The most popular campaign world is yours. Workshop ideas for your own campaign or mine the threads for inspiration from your fellow homebrewers. - 4e Core World
The Nentir Vale and its surrounding lands and planes await you. Discuss the campaign setting created for Fourth Edition here. - Forgotten Realms
The lands of Faerûn are a place of great heroes and stark evil, encompassing lands of magic, mystery, and high peril. - Eberron
The Eberron setting combines traditional medieval fantasy with pulp action and dark adventure mixed with a dash of noir flavor. - Dark Sun
Dark Sun is set on a desert planet where magic harms the environment, gods don't exist, and psionics is commonplace. - Gamma World
Earth. After the apocalypse. Never mind the radiation—you’re gonna like it here. Discuss the world and gameplay of the D&D Gamma World Roleplaying Game.
D&D: Vintage
- Vintage General Discussion
Discuss the previous editions of Dungeons of Dragons - Other RPGs
For RPG conversation, including general d20 discussion. - Vintage and Other Character Optimization
Maximize your character's potential and get help crunching the numbers here. - Birthright
In this classic medieval fantasy setting, descendants of the survivors of a fatal war between the gods control churches, guilds, and nations through the power inherent in their blood. - d20 Modern
d20 Modern is an unbelievably flexible D&D setting that allows you to create and play exciting adventures set in the modern world. - Dragonlance
Dragonlance is a romantic fantasy setting detailed in the best-selling novels by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman - Greyhawk
The original D&D setting, created from the mind of Gary Gygax himself. - Mystara
The house of all things related to the Outer World and the Hollow World, from D&D co-founder Dave Arneson. - Planescape
Sigil, City of Doors, and the planes of the Great Wheel beckon you to intrigue and adventure. - Spelljammer
Hoist the sails of your Spelljammer and trek across the multiverse
also just my two cents, no need to have subforums on some of those, just have a dnd campaign worlds forum and a dnd vintage forum. the subforums just make it so sprawled imo. like i love birthright, i really do, but i dont see how it needs its own subforum. just my opinion though and wrecans layout is far superior to how it is now
pull the trigger
Which reminds me. When D&D: Next is released all of the Worlds forums except Homebrew Campaigns and Forgotten Realms -- and whetever is the default setting for Next -- will have to be relegated back to D&D: Vintage.
Which reminds me. When D&D: Next is released all of the Worlds forums except Homebrew Campaigns and Forgotten Realms -- and whetever is the default setting for Next -- will have to be relegated back to D&D: Vintage.
Have they announced that they'll be discontinuing the other current worlds and not re-vamping old ones? And if so, where is this announcement?
Which reminds me. When D&D: Next is released all of the Worlds forums except Homebrew Campaigns and Forgotten Realms -- and whetever is the default setting for Next -- will have to be relegated back to D&D: Vintage.
Have they announced that they'll be discontinuing the other current worlds and not re-vamping old ones? And if so, where is this announcement?
They haven't announced anything. But we have been placing the worlds in D&D: Worlds if they are currently being supporte. So far, the only world that has been affirmatively said to be supported is Forgotten Realms. All other campaign worlds only have 4e releases, at most. And when Next hits shelves, they will be Vintage, unless, in the interim, they announce other settings to be supported.
I know Mudbunny said we don't know the rules structure yet, but we know what people are talking about and there are probably a few assumptions we can make, like the existence (in some form) of races, classes, skills, spells/maneuvers/powers/whatever, an updated GSL or similar license, monsters, and of course you'd still need a general discussion area (placed underneath all the other DnDNext forums so it isn't the first place everyone posts to), so I don't think it is impossible to create some better organization for all the discussion currently taking place.
How about creating some more forums for D&D Next? .
yes and please separate them from the 4e future releases, and/or any other 4e topic
For the forum reorg, would it be possible to have one sticky in the Realms forum that Trevor or Dragonette (or the VCLs, etc…) can edit which, in the first post, links to all the various groups located on the WotC forums?
Examples would include the LFR group and the FR Novels group. (Apologies for not having links. Will edit them in when I can.)
I feel that the single FR forum we’re going to end up with after the reorg ought to serve as a hub pointing to all the other Realms goodness that can be found on the forums. A sticky thread at the top of the main FR forum page would do that service nicely.
It's been one year since I first suggested the forums be reorganized.
It's been 6½ months since Huscarl started this thread.
It's been 4 months since crazymonkey said that reorganization is still on CM's list of things to do.
It's been 3½ months since Trevor called this a "great idea" and since mudbunny said he started a discussion in the VCL group
It's been 3 months since Trevor said he doesn't want to put this off again and wants to proceed as planned.
Can anybody give us an update on any forum reorganization?
FYI: I created a one-man private group that is publicly viewable, in which I organized that Groups forums to look like what I envision the reorganized D&D forums to look like. It didn't take long to set up. You can see it here. I think it looks pretty good.
As you may have noticed, the reorg has begun! Specifically, we are working in stages, with "stage one" being the Board Games and Errata forums.
We don't have a specific timeline for future stages, but I can give you the infamous "soon." ;)
We are working from Wrecan's model, with a few tweaks.
Quick question for everyone...
We are considering eliminating the Legacy Forums section entirely. Is there anything in there that should be salvaged, saved, or archived?
We are considering eliminating the Legacy Forums section entirely. Is there anything in there that should be salvaged, saved, or archived?
Everything I wrote should be painstakingly copied by hand, scanned, and preserved, with one copy in a secure vault deep in the Earth's crust, and a second placed in a rocket strengthened against cosmis radiation and shot into space with a careful trajectory avoiding any known phenomena to maximize longevity. Everything else is crap!
Seriously, I think Regdar's Repository is the only thing I would consider archiving.
After the reorg, send me a lift of links you think should be included. I'll make a post to be stickied and solicit additional contributions. Then once we've had appropriaet comments, we'll get it sticked and locked.
The list, such as it is, has been sent your way.
4E Races and Monsters
4E Combat: Traps, Terrain and Tactics
4E Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items
All threads from these forums now reside in 4E General Discussion.
All threads from these forums now reside in 4E General Discussion.
Wait, what? Can someone post the intended final format of the forums so I don't request things to be moved out of General only to have them moved back in after a merger?
We're working off the final model you posted after all the discussion that took place in this thread. Assume that post #218 of this thread will be the end result (we may make one or two tweaks to that, but, that's the schematic we're working from, so to speak).
4E Strikers
4E Controllers
4e Defenders
4E Leaders
4E Multiclassing, Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies
All threads from those forums now reside in 4E General Discussion.
Mr_Miscellany, you're welcome.
4e Rules Q&A
4e Character Optimization
4e Other Discussion (renamed from General Discussion)
4e Reviews and Future Releases (renamed from 4th edition Future Releases)
and the 4e errata category with forums for Print Material, Online Content, and the locked 4e Errata Archive.
In addition, the d20 Modern forum has been repurposed a bit to include discussion of all out of print TSR and Wizards of the Coast RPGs, such as Alternity and Boot Hill. d20 Character Optimization has been renamed Previous Editions Character Optimization.
Several other forums got moved around a bit tonight as well and we eliminated a couple of sections (D&D HQ and D&D Fundamentals).
Then I scrolled down a bit further and found them.
And all was well.
And I like it.
We are pretty much done at this point. We are still talking about what to do with the Legacy forums section and we will be revisiting the current set-up every so often to see if we can make any improvements.
Thanks, everyone, for your input, and your patience during this process.
Everything from the Legacy section has been moved into the new Previous Editions Archive forum in the Previous Editions section with two exceptions.
The old 4E Rules forum threads were moved into 4E Rules Q&A and the old 4E Concerns & Criticisms forum was deleted (including all threads).
Thanks again, everyone, for your input and patience.
also just my two cents, no need to have subforums on some of those, just have a dnd campaign worlds forum and a dnd vintage forum. the subforums just make it so sprawled imo. like i love birthright, i really do, but i dont see how it needs its own subforum. just my opinion though and wrecans layout is far superior to how it is now
pull the trigger
Which reminds me. When D&D: Next is released all of the Worlds forums except Homebrew Campaigns and Forgotten Realms -- and whetever is the default setting for Next -- will have to be relegated back to D&D: Vintage.
Which reminds me. When D&D: Next is released all of the Worlds forums except Homebrew Campaigns and Forgotten Realms -- and whetever is the default setting for Next -- will have to be relegated back to D&D: Vintage.
Have they announced that they'll be discontinuing the other current worlds and not re-vamping old ones? And if so, where is this announcement?
Which reminds me. When D&D: Next is released all of the Worlds forums except Homebrew Campaigns and Forgotten Realms -- and whetever is the default setting for Next -- will have to be relegated back to D&D: Vintage.
Have they announced that they'll be discontinuing the other current worlds and not re-vamping old ones? And if so, where is this announcement?
They haven't announced anything. But we have been placing the worlds in D&D: Worlds if they are currently being supporte. So far, the only world that has been affirmatively said to be supported is Forgotten Realms. All other campaign worlds only have 4e releases, at most. And when Next hits shelves, they will be Vintage, unless, in the interim, they announce other settings to be supported.
I know Mudbunny said we don't know the rules structure yet, but we know what people are talking about and there are probably a few assumptions we can make, like the existence (in some form) of races, classes, skills, spells/maneuvers/powers/whatever, an updated GSL or similar license, monsters, and of course you'd still need a general discussion area (placed underneath all the other DnDNext forums so it isn't the first place everyone posts to), so I don't think it is impossible to create some better organization for all the discussion currently taking place.
How about creating some more forums for D&D Next? .
yes and please separate them from the 4e future releases, and/or any other 4e topic
For the forum reorg, would it be possible to have one sticky in the Realms forum that Trevor or Dragonette (or the VCLs, etc…) can edit which, in the first post, links to all the various groups located on the WotC forums?
Examples would include the LFR group and the FR Novels group. (Apologies for not having links. Will edit them in when I can.)
I feel that the single FR forum we’re going to end up with after the reorg ought to serve as a hub pointing to all the other Realms goodness that can be found on the forums. A sticky thread at the top of the main FR forum page would do that service nicely.
It's been one year since I first suggested the forums be reorganized.
It's been 6½ months since Huscarl started this thread.
It's been 4 months since crazymonkey said that reorganization is still on CM's list of things to do.
It's been 3½ months since Trevor called this a "great idea" and since mudbunny said he started a discussion in the VCL group
It's been 3 months since Trevor said he doesn't want to put this off again and wants to proceed as planned.
Can anybody give us an update on any forum reorganization?
FYI: I created a one-man private group that is publicly viewable, in which I organized that Groups forums to look like what I envision the reorganized D&D forums to look like. It didn't take long to set up. You can see it here. I think it looks pretty good.
As you may have noticed, the reorg has begun! Specifically, we are working in stages, with "stage one" being the Board Games and Errata forums.
We don't have a specific timeline for future stages, but I can give you the infamous "soon." ;)
We are working from Wrecan's model, with a few tweaks.
Quick question for everyone...
We are considering eliminating the Legacy Forums section entirely. Is there anything in there that should be salvaged, saved, or archived?
We are considering eliminating the Legacy Forums section entirely. Is there anything in there that should be salvaged, saved, or archived?
Everything I wrote should be painstakingly copied by hand, scanned, and preserved, with one copy in a secure vault deep in the Earth's crust, and a second placed in a rocket strengthened against cosmis radiation and shot into space with a careful trajectory avoiding any known phenomena to maximize longevity. Everything else is crap!
Seriously, I think Regdar's Repository is the only thing I would consider archiving.
After the reorg, send me a lift of links you think should be included. I'll make a post to be stickied and solicit additional contributions. Then once we've had appropriaet comments, we'll get it sticked and locked.
The list, such as it is, has been sent your way.
4E Races and Monsters
4E Combat: Traps, Terrain and Tactics
4E Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items
All threads from these forums now reside in 4E General Discussion.
All threads from these forums now reside in 4E General Discussion.
Wait, what? Can someone post the intended final format of the forums so I don't request things to be moved out of General only to have them moved back in after a merger?
We're working off the final model you posted after all the discussion that took place in this thread. Assume that post #218 of this thread will be the end result (we may make one or two tweaks to that, but, that's the schematic we're working from, so to speak).
4E Strikers
4E Controllers
4e Defenders
4E Leaders
4E Multiclassing, Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies
All threads from those forums now reside in 4E General Discussion.
Mr_Miscellany, you're welcome.
4e Rules Q&A
4e Character Optimization
4e Other Discussion (renamed from General Discussion)
4e Reviews and Future Releases (renamed from 4th edition Future Releases)
and the 4e errata category with forums for Print Material, Online Content, and the locked 4e Errata Archive.
In addition, the d20 Modern forum has been repurposed a bit to include discussion of all out of print TSR and Wizards of the Coast RPGs, such as Alternity and Boot Hill. d20 Character Optimization has been renamed Previous Editions Character Optimization.
Several other forums got moved around a bit tonight as well and we eliminated a couple of sections (D&D HQ and D&D Fundamentals).
Then I scrolled down a bit further and found them.
And all was well.
And I like it.
We are pretty much done at this point. We are still talking about what to do with the Legacy forums section and we will be revisiting the current set-up every so often to see if we can make any improvements.
Thanks, everyone, for your input, and your patience during this process.
Everything from the Legacy section has been moved into the new Previous Editions Archive forum in the Previous Editions section with two exceptions.
The old 4E Rules forum threads were moved into 4E Rules Q&A and the old 4E Concerns & Criticisms forum was deleted (including all threads).
Thanks again, everyone, for your input and patience.