I'm not really up to discussing why that is so at the moment. I'm more interested in these questions: Am I alone in seeing this? If not, what can be done about it?
What can be done about it? Not much. Of course, you can do things to make yourself feel like you're making a difference.
(sorry if I've either missunderstood the thread or made some very poor assumptions)
It *IS* a forum to discuss women's issues in gaming.
However, EVERY FREAKING DISCUSSION is turned into a "This won't bring women to the table" or "This will bring women to the table" or "This will make women not buy the book" or "You're trying to censor us" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Every freaking discussion. I'm sick and tired of every time I say MY opinion or relay MY experience or MY preference that it is all of a sudden invalid because I DON'T SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN. I KNOW I DON'T SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN. It doesn't make my experience or opinion invalid.
It's just my own opinion.
This forum is about women's issues in gaming. NOT a think-tank on how WotC can market more effectively towards women - that's just how EVERY stupid discussion ends up heading.
Now, I have some theories on why that is (ranging from the "OK" to the "Crazy"), but my observation is that's what's happening.
This isn't a forum that needs to be focused on how to bring women to the table. It is a *HOPE* of the forum to bring more women and make the game more enjoyable for EVERYONE, but it is not the purpose of the freaking forum.
Now, part of that may indeed be "I hate the new PHB cover, because of the treatment of the woman". WotC may read that and say "Oh, huh, some women feel that way. Interesting." But the post shouldn't be taken as anything more than anyone else saying anything on any of these boards.
*sigh* I'm frustrated. Not at you for your thread, but just with everything. Thanks for starting this thread, so I didn't have to.
OK, I'm totally going to post this, because this is what I've been feeling lately, and I figure here is most appropriate:
It *IS* a forum to discuss women's issues in gaming.
However, EVERY FREAKING DISCUSSION is turned into a "This won't bring women to the table" or "This will bring women to the table" or "This will make women not buy the book" or "You're trying to censor us" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Every freaking discussion. I'm sick and tired of every time I say MY opinion or relay MY experience or MY preference that it is all of a sudden invalid because I DON'T SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN. I KNOW I DON'T SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN. It doesn't make my experience or opinion invalid.
It's just my own opinion.
Agreed
So the best we can hope for is a bunch of people who Try to speak on behalf of Some women each, and probably disagreeing fairly regularly on what we think is the best way to accomplish the common goal.
What we wind up with though is the regulars bickering over whose idea is going to ruin everything, then some of the visitors coming in to say "LOLZ WOMEN CAN'T GAME, THEIR INFERIOR BRAINS NOT CAN DO MATHS, THEY BELONG IN KITCHEN! HAHA WHIPPED FEMINAZI [homosexuals]!", which gets the whole thread on a "Yeah, Feminists are all 'Men belong in the fields, men are bad'/no they're not" argument, and it derails even the Chance of anything productive coming out of that thread...
Sure it is not everybody, but if we help even a few groups to have more open inclusive social dynamics then I say this board is worth it.
I do get annoyed by thread derailments and dismissive attitudes that seem to pop up when female posters respond about how they think of an issue.
By the way, I have personally learned some things about GM'ing my male players so that they can have a more enjoyable game through this forum. I realized that I was unconsciously making all the important NPCs as female. The male NPCs were all in the background, because they just weren't interesting enough to affect the long campaign storyline. Sure I have to make a conscious effort to make important male NPCs, but my players seem to appreciate the effort. My female player also appreciated having a male head of the Church of Hextor that she could properly admire and fear (she is a cleric of Hextor).
It's annoying.
Generally, I enjoy these forums because it tends to attract intelligent posters, even the ones I don't agree with.
Generally speaking, these boards have changed my opinion on several subjects. Previously, I would have been one of those "hey, equality means no 'special' treatment of anybody, why are we discussing this anyway" types, but I was just too polite to say so and generally avoided such topics because they made me uncomfortable. Needless to say, that's changed.
same with here, i always appreciate and take into deep consideration the perspectives of EVERYONE who is a fan of gaming or what have you. the more i know the better i can engineer things that are enjoyable for everyone...from my pnp campaign at the table, to an MMO, to a solo rpg, and more. i have several women gamers at my table, so i very much strive to make it a great experience for them (2 of them are new to dnd and rpgs) because i hope they spread the gospel! i was hoping to get as much info here as possible to help me...
in the end i'm in agreement with KillerGM, and am just as frustrated because it's difficult to sift thru everything and get the real feminine point of view on all things gaming.
No, I see it, too. In fact, I stated this was going to happen. Why? Because you simply cannot mandate change in a particular demographic, it has to be handled by societal evolution, which will happen as it happens with or without your intervention. No amount of female gamer columns or "Game Days for Girls" are going to truly increase your target demographic. No amount of pinup art kept out any truly meaningful amount of potential female players (and don't assault me with anecdotal evidence to the contrary), and no amount of "sensible" representations of female characters are going to draw a truly meaningful amount of potential female players. Or jocks. Or Group X.
What can be done about it? Not much. Of course, you can do things to make yourself feel like you're making a difference.
I disagree. Surely you're familiar with special interest groups that lobby in Washington. (United States of America). I will not argue as to whether or not special interests groups mandate change, but I think it clear they ARE change of themselves.
My thought is that Astrid's Parlor as an open-access forum was inevitably going to become a general purpose discussion forum rather than a special interest discussion forum, as more male gamers posted.
But "Game Days for Girls" and female gamer columns maintain a visible presence of girl gamers in the gaming community. As such, I think their purpose meaningful.
As to the OP
I've noticed something a bit strange with this forum. Although it seems this forum is meant to be "an evolving community for women in gaming, dedicated to the discussion of women's issues related to gaming" and that "[it] is our hope that these discussions will encourage more women to come to the table, and will help make the gaming experience a better one for everyone," I don't really see that happening.
I'm not really up to discussing why that is so at the moment. I'm more interested in these questions: Am I alone in seeing this? If not, what can be done about it?
Sure, I think everyone's noticed this. But the only solutions I can think of would be
1) restricting posters on this forum to females only - or, perhaps, females and those that SAY they are female (I disapprove of this)
2) strict moderation (which I also disapprove of, considering that I think that degree of moderation would lessen discussion, and considering that even staying "on topic", denigration of threads into what people think WOULD or SHOULD or COULD be women's issues related to gaming would still occur and hence, the perceived problem would remain.)
In every case where some guy on Astrid's derails a thread (and it's almost always a guy), I notice that he takes an issue relevant to gamer women and shifts the focus away from women's perspectives and experiences over a male-privilege POV. Then it all goes downhill from there. It's not malice. It happens in face-to-face conversations too, and even nice guys do it.
It's like being in a conversation with someone who takes every comment as a license to talk about himself. It doesn't come across as thoughtful or meaningful, but narcissistic, irritating, and boorish.