Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gruumish76 Jul 24, 2008 7:52:36	Where do I go to complane about 4th ed, I dont want some form where WotC does not even look at or care about, but where I can send them an email or a letter directly expressing my opinion on the new system.
#2 batshido Jul 24, 2008 8:23:41	Here's their Contact Us page. If you want someone to actually pay attention, snail mail is probably going to be more effective than email; physical letters demand attention, email gets deleted.
#3 gamer_zer0 Jul 24, 2008 12:57:30	Here's their Contact Us page. If you want someone to actually pay attention, snail mail is probably going to be more effective than email; physical letters demand attention, email gets deleted. Using the contact us is a good way if you don't want to use the forums. We don't delete things that come into us via our CS system, so no worries there.
#4 samyueru Jul 24, 2008 15:43:31	Where do I go to complane about 4th ed, I dont want some form where WotC does not even look at or care about, but where I can send them an email or a letter directly expressing my opinion on the new system. Well the Contact Us thing that were linked to is probably the best, but I don't know what you're hoping to achieve. They're supporting 4th edition now, whether you want to have it's babies, or burn it's babies.
#5 kursk Jul 24, 2008 15:51:21	Well the Contact Us thing that were linked to is probably the best, but I don't know what you're hoping to achieve. They're supporting 4th edition now, whether you want to have it's babies, or burn it's babies. Agreed. If you like it buy every scrap they put out under the 4.0 banner. If you don't like it, don't spend $. Ultimately, the bottom line is the only "mail" a publicly held company reads...
#6 mufflon Jul 24, 2008 17:03:08	Where do I go to complane about 4th ed, I dont want some form where WotC does not even look at or care about, but where I can send them an email or a letter directly expressing my opinion on the new system. They don't care about your opinion, so you migh just as well save the effort of trying to find out and send your complaints directly to your recycle bin.
#7 the_ubbergeek Jul 24, 2008 17:38:26	The problem is that there is also *praises* letters that they get...
#8 mead Jul 24, 2008 18:12:15	Using the contact us is a good way if you don't want to use the forums. We don't delete things that come into us via our CS system, so no worries there. Good. Maybe if enough people use that avenue to tell you about the ink smudging problem, you'll do something about it for your second printing. It's certainly been dismissed out of hand here in the forums.
#9 the_ubbergeek Jul 24, 2008 18:22:04	They did - or at least explained issues with ink.
#10 lordflashheart Jul 24, 2008 18:24:08	They did - or at least explained issues with ink. LOL. You mean the explanation that it is our fault because we are too sweaty and have poor hygeine?
#11 the_ubbergeek Jul 24, 2008 18:26:34	LOL. You mean the explanation that it is our fault because we are too sweaty and have poor hygeine? Maybe the way it was stated had been seen as harsh by others, but it had truth. I can understand the sweaty bit (I have a fat skin), and we are often careless around. Peoples take those things so personaly...
#12 lordflashheart Jul 24, 2008 18:28:34	Maybe the way it was stated had been seen as harsh by others, but it had truth. I can understand the sweaty bit (I have a fat skin), and we are often careless around. Peoples take those things so personaly... Well it seemed a little odd as well. I mean even if we are oily and reek of onion rings, I am sure we would have noticed our other books smudging. I personally tested all of my hardcover gaming material, and none of them smudged the way 4e books do. Not only that but there clearly an issue with the binding as well.
#13 the_ubbergeek Jul 24, 2008 18:32:15	I will add that there was quite a few posters who went along and agreed due to personal experiences it seems, and there was admission of some other problems.
#14 ORC_Chaos Jul 24, 2008 18:57:56	I’ve removed content from this thread because baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
#15 mead Jul 24, 2008 19:17:36	Maybe the way it was stated had been seen as harsh by others, but it had truth. I can understand the sweaty bit (I have a fat skin), and we are often careless around. Peoples take those things so personaly... Yeah, sorry, but when the DMG smudges under careful handling with thoroughly-washed and -dried hands, there's more to it than Funyons or whatever other nasty food they think we all roll around in all day long.
#16 krownhunter07 Jul 24, 2008 22:59:34	hmmm.... I haven't smudged mine yet... but I'll know not to try now. Thanks.
#17 batshido Jul 25, 2008 10:42:11	Yeah, sorry, but when the DMG smudges under careful handling with thoroughly-washed and -dried hands, there's more to it than Funyons or whatever other nasty food they think we all roll around in all day long. I'm a sweaty guy with greasy skin who loves him some cheez-its, and my DMG has yet to smudge even with my constant page flipping. That's not to say that yours isn't, just that it's odd that yours would be an mine isn't. I wonder if there's a difference between runs or something. Could be one of the printers was sub-par or such. Edit: My heart truly goes out to those with smudged up books. I'm a bit of a bibliophile, and I can't stand having smudged, creased or otherwise marked-up books. It makes me sad inside.
#18 renizar Jul 25, 2008 11:09:20	I guess you guys like pokeing the books too much, the only smuges mine has it are under the warlock pages. I have never opened thoughs pages exept before letting a freind borrow it. When I got it back, the at-will powers were smudged. There not ment to be touched, but read.
#19 Mournblade94 Jul 25, 2008 11:28:00	I guess you guys like pokeing the books too much, the only smuges mine has it are under the warlock pages. I have never opened thoughs pages exept before letting a freind borrow it. When I got it back, the at-will powers were smudged. There not ment to be touched, but read. I never even had this problem with COMIC BOOKS. The ink should not be smudging. I don't have smudged ink, and none of the books I read have smudged ink. There is no reason for wotc books to smudge. If they do it is a shame only because well "it is not polished" and seems careless on the manufacturing part. WOTC should take their printer to task for it.
#20 zombie_babies Jul 25, 2008 11:43:17	I'm a sweaty guy with greasy skin who loves him some cheez-its, and my DMG has yet to smudge even with my constant page flipping. That's not to say that yours isn't, just that it's odd that yours would be an mine isn't. I wonder if there's a difference between runs or something. Could be one of the printers was sub-par or such. Edit: My heart truly goes out to those with smudged up books. I'm a bit of a bibliophile, and I can't stand having smudged, creased or otherwise marked-up books. It makes me sad inside. It seems that there are varied levels of quality. In my group, we have three people - myself included - that have minor smudges, several to many wrinkled pages, covers that warp and weak binding (some pages "slipping"). We have one that had his PHB fall completely apart. I actually saw the damage. It was ridiculously destroyed and has been sent off to get a replacement. All that said, we also have one member who's books are immaculate. No extra-sensitive ink (the smudges happen, but as they do for any book), no wrinkled pages, perfect binding and flat covers. It just seems like it's a luck of the draw thing. I wish I drew a bit better, but the problems with mine aren't so bad as to do any more than gripe a bit. But I also have to believe a lot of the horror stories. I have seen one actually happen.
#21 the_ubbergeek Jul 25, 2008 11:45:32	First, if that happens, send back the book to where you bought it.
#22 zombie_babies Jul 25, 2008 12:09:57	First, if that happens, send back the book to where you bought it. Umm. Yeah. But that also glosses over the fact that there is a fairly widespread problem. And that's the issue some are having with WotC's response to this. There's plenty of good ones out there. But there's a ton that suck. All I'm saying is that WotC should look into this a bit more than blaming it all on body chemistry and try to ensure the next set of books that come out are a little better on quality - across the board. That's all. Like I said, mine aren't terrible. I'd just like the PHBII or whatever I buy next to be better than mediocre.
#23 ace_of_time Jul 25, 2008 12:37:56	You could go the Shank method. Get the address. Hand write 1 letter each week and send it to them. Keep doing that till you get a letter back saying something. When that happens start sending 2 a week. Repeat as needed till you get the results you are looking for. Having friends that feel the same way also do this with you. As many as possible. That should do it.
#24 cannaith Jul 25, 2008 15:25:41	LOL. You mean the explanation that it is our fault because we are too sweaty and have poor hygeine? So apparently playing other games makes you healthier and more hygienic since those books don't have running ink. Good to know. Switch to white wolf for better health?
#25 krownhunter07 Jul 25, 2008 16:18:53	I'm a bit of a bibliophile, and I can't stand having smudged, creased or otherwise marked-up books. It makes me sad inside. It drives me mad... and is one of the reasons my wife/kids/friends/everyone else in the world, can't touch my books without my say so. I'm the same way with all my stuff, though...
#26 mead Jul 25, 2008 17:35:24	I guess you guys like pokeing the books too much, the only smuges mine has it are under the warlock pages. I have never opened thoughs pages exept before letting a freind borrow it. When I got it back, the at-will powers were smudged. There not ment to be touched, but read. No, it's just that some of us don't think a book should ever be manufactured to be so fragile that it's "not meant to be touched". Every single other rpg book I own, including WotC 3.x books, have held up to normal contact during reading and use without smearing themselves like emo high-school kids. It doesn't take rocket surgery to figure out the problem is not solely "the customers' fault" here.
#27 gruumish76 Jul 25, 2008 18:25:48	WOW I would not have thought just asking for a simple link or an email address would get everyones panties in a twist. This game is turning into more and more like Wold of Warcraft buy the day, now the FORM talk is as bad as theirs. Thank you Batshido for the link and the info.
#28 batshido Jul 25, 2008 20:07:47	Thank you Batshido for the link and the info. No problem, man. Happy to help.