A great amount of time has passed sense then and the boards and political arena has calmed down quite a bit, so I think the time has come to actually have that discussion.
I agree. Reporting is now a tool for people with grudges, because the CoC is so vague.
I agree with goldo.
And yes, a big part of it is the trolling that goes on and people using the report button as an "I win" tool.
We don't need such discussions. There are plenty of other sites to get into political flame wars. And, we have private groups here where you can discuss politics/religion. (I was invited by one such group, but didn't join because I didn't want people to think I was intruding or moderating the group.)
It's simply not needed in the public areas.
I disagree. Political and religious discussion are fun, interesting and educational. Not to mention they challenge the participantes, forcing them to work on their argumentative skills. This is why posters engage in them.
You'd think so, but mostly they crash and burn. People get all foamy at the mouth and they get insanely personal.
I've tried starting "debate" threads, (Not politics, all D&D related subjects) but not many people were interested in participating to work on their argumentative skills.
Look at OTT, from time to time political discussions pop up. Some are bad others are not. But the concensus in OTT is that we want the MODing of these discussions to end.
There are the private groups I mentioned. Or, you could go start your own boards with nothing but politics. Fair warning though, and this has happened a few times before...
Some folks got "fed up" with being modded. So they started up their own boards. And at first, it was great for them. They'd have a board just for slamming WotC mods, even. And how great it was that they could do whatever they want.
Eventually, this group wanted to get serious and have some sort of direction for their board. Sadly, the trolls didn't want to quit spamming or swearing at everyone, including at the mods of those boards.
So the mods put up a... get this... "Code of Conduct". And guess where they got their "Code of Conduct?"
Those people that were sick of the WotC mods "ruining their lives" suddenly had a new respect for those mods.
I know WotC is the boss of the forums, but the forums exist for fans of the game to discuss among themselves various subjects. It would be awesome if WotC indulged us.
Actually, the "various subjects" is WotC games, not politics/religion. Look around and see that most other boards don't allow those quagmire of topics. (EN World, for random example.)
Also, don't see the report button as an "I win" tool, but rather as an "I lose" tool, and it gets much more interesting.
Also, don't see the report button as an "I win" tool, but rather as an "I lose" tool, and it gets much more interesting.
Personally, I make a point of only reporting posts in discussions I'm not personally taking part in (to ensure at least some level of objectivity), and only for really egregious stuff like racist/sexist/homophobic slurs or outright harassment.
I used to not bother reporting anything, assuming the mods would get rid of the really objectionable stuff on their own eventually, and not wanting to end up as some sanctimonious "internet hall monitor" type. Then I saw a blatant gay-baiting thread hang around on the forums for several days without any mod attention. I became a bit more pro-active after that.
Much as some people may dislike the report button, or feel it gets abused (though, really, how can it be? an actual mod still has to agree something should be deleted before it actually happens), but it is clearly necessary.
The topics are not a problem really, but some people are. The banned topics are ones that cause the greatest number of people to be problems, (or perhapes, rather, the ones where people are most likely to "take the bait" as Goldy Underwear_Surgeon put it) and will be nothing but time sinks for the MODs. Asking people to adhere to a code of conduct does not stop it. Banning problem posters, well, clearly that is demonstrateably not effective. Given that I see no efficent way to deal with the problem aside from locking down any thread that looks to be heading towards problematic territory.
It is sad, it is dissapointing, and it is abundantly clear that it is the best option.
You can't provoke debates, they emerge by themselves.
I agree with this sentiment. The discussions that emerge regarding politics and religion typically evolve from the original topic. People don't start posts based upon it. They are simply sparked through the natural (or unnatural) progression of a conversation.
That being said, if it is allowed to continue, people's beliefs and opinions need to be respected and not used as an excuse to drop cheap shots on one another. Debates should remain civil.
Trolls exists. So what? People who take the bait only have themselves to blame.
This, I don't agree with so much, as this tends to excuse bad behavior. This is not chicken and the egg. Trolls have (ill) intent. Those that take the bait do not, specifically when they don't even realize that they have initially taken the bait.
Given that, I agree with the initial banning. Nothing good ever came from such discussions. And today, looking around the Boards, my Facebook account, my circle of friends, my evening news, and the national and global environment, I see nothing to indicate that the world has changed. Permitting real world political and /or religious discussions on this gaming Board would not be expected to result in outcomes different from those that triggered the ban in the first place. Because of this, I see no reason to change the policy.
Tl;dr: Guys, the reason the threads in the Tavern get locked or obliterated isn't the topic - it's the behavior of some of those involved. Nothing will change if suddenly these topics were officially ok. Poster behavior needs to change, not the rules.
I believe a discussion of the topic (banning real world political and religious discussions) is legitimate. Questioning existing policy is a good way to determine its relevance.
Given that, I agree with the initial banning. Nothing good ever came from such discussions.
Agreed.
People (using this in the general, board-spanning sense) *think* that they want political or religious discussion. However, what most of them relly want is to discuss their particular point of view, how right it is, and how wrong all other views are.
No good can come out of it.
Besides, I come here to get away from that bs on other boards I frequent.
A great amount of time has passed sense then and the boards and political arena has calmed down quite a bit
untill, of course, the elections start ...
See, there was a thread (in the OTT) about the poilitical situation in Belgium. And it wasn't locked, because, well, people don't give a damn1. As a result, the conversation was calm and slow.
The problem isn't really that it's a political thread, but that the threads your talking about are the ones that have nothing to do with WotC, and where people gather with strong unshakable and opposite oppinions.2
While you say the political arena is calmed down. I don't believe that. On-line left wingers are still left wing. on line right wingers are still right wing. And people are still willing to defend there oppinion. I woudn't call it 'calmed down', I think 'lurking around the corner' would be more accurate
Hence, it is my oppinion that volitile non-DnD subjects should be avoided.
__________
1: I am from belgium. I'm simply realistic/pessimistic about the impact of our political problems on the situation of the fellow forum members (which are almost 100% non-belgiums).
2: While the belgium thread was a political one, there were no people with unshakable opposite oppinions.