While I liked the idea of the Mature forums, I understand that the community that had grown in it had become indifferent to CoC violations. Still, I do believe that there is a place for it. Sexuality, drug use, torture, horror elements, and other topics can be discussed without delving into the graphic or obscene.
In another forum I frequented, they had an area called ‘The Neutral Zone’ in which ‘hot-button’ topics such as religion or politics placed. I think the Mature forum should be built around those lines instead of the ‘anything goes’ feel of the last one.
Well, not to be too meta, but in some cases the topic is a discussion of what is too obscene, or what have you.
If the discussion is 'what is too obscene for my role-playing group?' then the answer would be 'whatever your group finds too obscene.' Even if a poster wants to say what they include in their games, there's no need to go into detail.
1. 'I sometimes describe, graphically, the intimate acts the NPCs perform on the PCs.' versus,
2. 'This one time, at band camp, I had my orc NPC grab a trumpet and [detailed explanation of the event].'
If the question is 'what is too obscene for the Gleemax forums?' then the discussion wouldn't be on the mature board. It would go on the community business boards.
What I might suggest is that if you know the topic is a hot-button topic, maybe add a tag to the subject line. [Mature] or something like that to indicate that the topic is one that is not for those easily bothered.
I don't see the need for a seperate set of forums. If it is acceptable under the CoC, you can post about it.
Precisely what I think.
Given that forums cannot be separated through age restrictions, and given that the CoC would be the same everywhere, Mature forums make no sense, and are also unnecessary.
On Politics & Religion, and also Diversity & Gaming, I have submitted plans regarding forums covering these topics. They have not been created yet, but I believe they might be in future.
I don't see the need for a seperate set of forums. If it is acceptable under the CoC, you can post about it.
The same could be said about "Family Gaming" or even "Females and Gaming" (aka Astrid's Parlor). Yet those two seem to warrant their own discussion areas.
Based on discussions that occurred on the D&D Community Business forum, it was pretty much accepted that the "Mature Topics" forum would morph into a "game style" forum, similar to Family Gaming (but on the opposite end of the spectrum).
The same could be said about "Family Gaming" or even "Females and Gaming" (aka Astrid's Parlor). Yet those two seem to warrant their own discussion areas.
FWIW, I don't agree with those being created either.
Based on discussions that occurred on the D&D Community Business forum, it was pretty much accepted that the "Mature Topics" forum would morph into a "game style" forum, similar to Family Gaming (but on the opposite end of the spectrum).
It sounded to me from those threads that the discussions were simply going to take place in the appropriate subject area for them.
FWIW, I don't agree with those being created either.
I can appreciate your consistency, even if I disagree with the opinion.
Given that forums cannot be separated through age restrictions
While it may have many people crying bloody murder if implemented, I think a DDI-linked credit card verified (or other verification method) age might make for a good idea. They could establish a seperate CoC for it, and let people go crazy, since little kids can't get into it, and you'd have to be a paying customer wanting to get in to even get in, limiting complaints about content.
All it'd take would be for one child to find his or her way to one thread and get exposed to someone discussing sexual intercourse with a 12 year old and that child's parents finding out for there to be trouble (and it'd be a bad idea to allow that to happen, anyway).
And there is no need to take that risk.
And Wizards has not done that, nor do they have to.
Agreed. But I would like them to, and I think they should. Obviously Wizards doesn't have to do anything, and it's fairly clear they haven't done it already. So...I can't say it would be possible to brook argument with that statement, but I don't see what it had to do with my post.
All it'd take would be for one child to find his or her way to one thread and get exposed to someone discussing sexual intercourse with a 12 year old and that child's parents finding out for there to be trouble (and it'd be a bad idea to allow that to happen, anyway).
And there is no need to take that risk.
2002 is when those forums launched. In six years, how many lawsuits have there been?
If I were them, I wouldn't do it.
Having a kids-friendly website which combines Ye Olde Kids Game with an area where you need a credit card to access it doesn't really strike me as a good idea, especially because these two areas would be near enough to each other for a child to be able to find this shiny "CREDIT CARD ONLY" area quite easily - and that enough would be liable to cause trouble.
And despite the absence of lawsuits since 2002, the forums were still shut down. That's a bad argument, anyway - the fact it hasn't happened in 6 years doesn't mean it won't happen in future, and the fallout associated with a lawsuit like that would only be compounded by the fact "it's existed since 2002." Especially considering the threads that existed in that forum.
(And the fact the forum has existed since 2002 has also likely compounded the risk of the event taking place, especially if they are trying to attract more people to the forums, which they always are.)
I think there will be enough forums to cover most topics relegated to the Mature forums and that some discussions just shouldn't be on these forums.
I don't think Dave's idea is a very good solution, either. It seems to be assuming that only adults will be getting a subscription to D&Di; that doesn't seem like a very good solution for me. For example, growing up in the 80s, my best friend had a subscription to Dragon, paid for every year as a birthday gift from his grandparents.
Another example: As a teen in the mid-80s, I went to a lot of concerts. My aunt gave me her credit card information so I could order tickets (my parents didn't have a credit card). Whenever a concert came up that I wanted to go to, I'd call my aunt to ask if I could use the card, I'd buy the tickets over the phone, then I'd give my aunt the money to pay the credit card bill.
I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think minors will have access to D&Di. That's why age verification isn't a viable option.
Instead, I'm in favor of a "Mature" forum that is wide open to everybody, and follows the exact same Code of Conduct as the rest of the community. The forum would live here, alongside Family Gaming (and, in an ideal world, Astrid's would be in the same location rather than in the D&D forum).
Everything that's said about the posts that would go on the Mature forum -- they can be posted in other forums -- is true about Family Gaming. All of those posts could go somewhere else. Yet there's value to having those threads in one location, and I think there's value in a potential "Mature" forum, too.
I think the idea of a 'Mature' forum is a very poor idea, especially for a site that strives to be family friendly. I mean what does it mean, 'Mature'? I agree with Knight shunting off conversations to a 'Mature' forum just because they involve 'homosexuality' makes no sense in this day and age. Some topics like the ones that led to the forums closure should never have been tolerated by CS in the first place.
Now I agree that some topics like politics/religion/diversity issues might warrant their own forum(s), but let break them up instead of having a catchall forum that embraces a anything goes philosophy or you will be back to the same problems we have now.
Some topics like the ones that led to the forums closure should never have been tolerated by CS in the first place.
You'll get no argument on this one from me.
Now I agree that some topics like politics/religion/diversity issues might warrant their own forum(s), but let break them up instead of having a catchall forum that embraces a anything goes philosophy or you will be back to the same problems we have now.
I'm not looking for an "anything goes" philosophy, and I think most folks who want a Mature forum fall in the same boat.
I see "Family Gaming" and "Mature Topics" as the same thing, just at different extremes. Here's two topics that are the same thing, more or less:
"I'm looking to play some board games with my 4 year old. What are some good choices, and why?"
"I'm looking to play some risque board games at my friend's bachelor party. What are some good choices, and why?"
Either one of those could be dropped in the general board game forum and be entirely on topic. But right now, one of them gets a special forum for discussion and the other doesn't.