MOVE THIS BACK - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

MOVE THIS BACK

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
frothsof
Feb 28, 2012 14:47:52 put this back in gd

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

the reason it was in gd is bc wizard posted about the tools in gd when they announced 5e

so if this subject is good enough for WIZARDS to post about this subject in gd, it should be good enough for ME to post it in gd

plz stop burying threads just bc wrecan tells you to
#2
Duskweaver
Feb 28, 2012 15:01:22 Look, I am every bit as mad about WotC's obfuscation regarding support for the 4e tools as you are, but that thread obviously belongs in the DDi forum, not GD. Wrecan's not "trying to be a mod", he's doing what he's actually supposed to be doing as a Forum Guide. (And this is me speaking as someone who has had posts deleted for calling Wrecan out when I thought he deserved it.)

The forum categories ought to actually mean something. Just because someone who works for WotC once posted something in the wrong forum doesn't mean we should all just abandon the whole idea of having different forums for different topics.
#3
frothsof
Feb 28, 2012 15:23:49 its about future 4e support, not 'can i houserule a power'. and like i said, wiz posted about this subject in gd, but when i do the same thing its moved

to me its just burying the thread for no reason other than to hide the convo without answering crap
#4
zombie_babies
Feb 28, 2012 15:27:55 It's about DDI, right? Well, DDI has it's own section where DDI topics are supposed to be discussed and moving the thread there, therefore, makes perfect sense.
#5
Webster
Feb 28, 2012 18:26:03 I don't bury threads, they get moved to the place they should have been created in the first place. Otherwise, why bother having a DDI section, for example.

Plus, Wrecan suggeted it to what I felt was the wrong place anyway.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

It belongs more in the DDI forum than the What's a Player to Do? board.

It's about DDI tools, not about 4e. The folks it would impact more than just 4e players would be the actual DDI subcribers. Not everyone on D&D General subscribes.

(And, WotC, being the owners of the board get to post whatever they want wherever they want.)
#6
Mand12
Mar 01, 2012 8:25:28 The issue the VCL team seems to not be getting is that when we complain about threads being moved, it's because we post things in particular forums in order to have them seen, read, and responded to by a particular audience.

Not everyone visits each individual subforum. There are clear differences in the individual populations. Treating the forums as one large happy family is a nice sentiment, but moving threads like this ignores the diversity present within each forum.

As an example, while many people post both in Rules Q&A and CharOp, the reason people post rules questions in Rules Q&A has much less to do with the name of the forum than it does the people who frequent it. A rules question often originates in CharOp, and will be attempted to be answered there in the context of CharOp. It's on-topic, within its own thread, and so it shouldn't be moved. But it's also cross-posted in RQ&A in order to get a specific, targeted discussion going. Now, I believe cross-posting is against the rules, but it's done incredibly frequently and is one of the most valuable interactions between the two distinct, different groups of people.

If you truly are here to lead the community, you should be more accepting about what the community actually is.
#7
zombie_babies
Mar 01, 2012 9:22:38 The problem with that is the reason 4e General is the 'go to' place is because it's not being used properly. The reason that traffic is slower in other areas is because 4e General is so misused. The purpose of moving threads to their proper location is not only to get them where they belong but to also, hopefully, increase traffic in the proper areas. Anyhoo, if people posted less stuff in 4e General and, instead, posted things where they were supposed to go, there'd be no need to seek traffic in 4e General. Cuz there'd be traffic elsewhere.
#8
WotC_Trevor
Mar 01, 2012 10:12:12 Asking for thread moves to appropriate areas is one of the things that VCL's take the lead on. The thread in question does fit best in the DDI forums, so it makes sense why it was moved. If you see other threads, even ones posted by us, that you think belong in a different forum, make the request known and it will be evaluated and possibly moved.

The threads aren't being buried, they're just being moved to the appropriate forums.
#9
wrecan
Mar 01, 2012 10:41:53
If you truly are here to lead the community, you should be more accepting about what the community actually is.

Then there would be no need for guides or leaders. But it's been decided that there should be people guiding and leading. And guiding and leading does not mean let things fall where they may. It means helping to ensure things work as they are intended. We do listen to the community for how to make things work better, but I don't agree that allowing Rules Q&A to be a place to discuss things other than rules, or CharOp to be a place to discuss things other than optimization would make the community work better.

Why don't I think that? Because I was here before the VCL program was instituted and I saw all the complaints that nobody could find stuff and people were posting in inppropriate places.

Those complaints are almost entirely gone and have been for years. We can't eliminate complaints, but in my opinion, the forums work much better now (whch does nto mean perfectly) than before the VCL program was instituted.
#10
Mand12
Mar 01, 2012 18:19:39
The threads aren't being buried, they're just being moved to the appropriate forums.

As judged by the title of the forum and the content of the post? Absolutely, you'll get no argument.

But "appropriate" means a lot more once you recognize the different, distinct communities that exist within each subforum.

Frothsof posted the thread in 4e General because he wanted the people in 4e General to read it. Even if none of the threads were moved, we're not approaching the levels of allegedly off-topic threads such that they start to squeeze out the rest of the posts.

It is a simple fact that not every forumgoer posts in or even reads every forum. Why can't the diverse nature of the community site be recognized and valued by the people who run it? Especially when the forum in question is labeled "general." Why can't the post be on-topic and appropriate for 4e General because the audience is general, rather than solely going by the text in the post?
#11
Webster
Mar 01, 2012 18:56:57 How is a thread about DDI not of interest to the DDI community? And if the DDI community doesn't read every forum, how would they see if it if it's buried in the general forum?

The DDI community was very much top of mind when the thread was moved.

And the community (as a whole) konws if they want to talk about DDI, there's a DDI section. If they want to talk Magic the Gathering, there's an area for that as well.
#12
Webster
Mar 01, 2012 21:38:19 The DDI forum is where to go to talk about DDI. If people in General want to talk DDI, they should go to the DDI forum. You can't force people into a topic "you" want to talk about just by putting it in the wrong area. If they want to talk DDI, they'll go to the DDI forum. Since they're seemingly NOT "hanging out" in the DDI forum, that means they don't want to talk DDI. Again, because if they did, they would.

You don't go buy a pair of socks in the milk aisle of your supermarket. You don't go to a sports station expecting to see cartoons.

And what of the folks that hang out in the DDI forum? Since the thread would impact them more than in a General forum (Which IS a forum of "last resort", not first posting...), wouldn't it be unfair to them if they didn't see it? The responses to the thread will be greater, and have more impact than if left on the general forum where people don't care, aren't subscirbers, or aren't interested in the topic. (If they were, they'd be hanging out in the DDI forum talking about it. ;) )

#13
ORC_Ragnar
Mar 02, 2012 8:33:45 I am locking this thread at this point. A Community Lead and VCL's have responded to the question posed by this thread. There is no need for further discussion on the matter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 frothsof Feb 28, 2012 14:47:52	put this back in gd community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... the reason it was in gd is bc wizard posted about the tools in gd when they announced 5e so if this subject is good enough for WIZARDS to post about this subject in gd, it should be good enough for ME to post it in gd plz stop burying threads just bc wrecan tells you to
#2 Duskweaver Feb 28, 2012 15:01:22	Look, I am every bit as mad about WotC's obfuscation regarding support for the 4e tools as you are, but that thread obviously belongs in the DDi forum, not GD. Wrecan's not "trying to be a mod", he's doing what he's actually supposed to be doing as a Forum Guide. (And this is me speaking as someone who has had posts deleted for calling Wrecan out when I thought he deserved it.) The forum categories ought to actually mean something. Just because someone who works for WotC once posted something in the wrong forum doesn't mean we should all just abandon the whole idea of having different forums for different topics.
#3 frothsof Feb 28, 2012 15:23:49	its about future 4e support, not 'can i houserule a power'. and like i said, wiz posted about this subject in gd, but when i do the same thing its moved to me its just burying the thread for no reason other than to hide the convo without answering crap
#4 zombie_babies Feb 28, 2012 15:27:55	It's about DDI, right? Well, DDI has it's own section where DDI topics are supposed to be discussed and moving the thread there, therefore, makes perfect sense.
#5 Webster Feb 28, 2012 18:26:03	I don't bury threads, they get moved to the place they should have been created in the first place. Otherwise, why bother having a DDI section, for example. Plus, Wrecan suggeted it to what I felt was the wrong place anyway. community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... It belongs more in the DDI forum than the What's a Player to Do? board. It's about DDI tools, not about 4e. The folks it would impact more than just 4e players would be the actual DDI subcribers. Not everyone on D&D General subscribes. (And, WotC, being the owners of the board get to post whatever they want wherever they want.)
#6 Mand12 Mar 01, 2012 8:25:28	The issue the VCL team seems to not be getting is that when we complain about threads being moved, it's because we post things in particular forums in order to have them seen, read, and responded to by a particular audience. Not everyone visits each individual subforum. There are clear differences in the individual populations. Treating the forums as one large happy family is a nice sentiment, but moving threads like this ignores the diversity present within each forum. As an example, while many people post both in Rules Q&A and CharOp, the reason people post rules questions in Rules Q&A has much less to do with the name of the forum than it does the people who frequent it. A rules question often originates in CharOp, and will be attempted to be answered there in the context of CharOp. It's on-topic, within its own thread, and so it shouldn't be moved. But it's also cross-posted in RQ&A in order to get a specific, targeted discussion going. Now, I believe cross-posting is against the rules, but it's done incredibly frequently and is one of the most valuable interactions between the two distinct, different groups of people. If you truly are here to lead the community, you should be more accepting about what the community actually is.
#7 zombie_babies Mar 01, 2012 9:22:38	The problem with that is the reason 4e General is the 'go to' place is because it's not being used properly. The reason that traffic is slower in other areas is because 4e General is so misused. The purpose of moving threads to their proper location is not only to get them where they belong but to also, hopefully, increase traffic in the proper areas. Anyhoo, if people posted less stuff in 4e General and, instead, posted things where they were supposed to go, there'd be no need to seek traffic in 4e General. Cuz there'd be traffic elsewhere.
#8 WotC_Trevor Mar 01, 2012 10:12:12	Asking for thread moves to appropriate areas is one of the things that VCL's take the lead on. The thread in question does fit best in the DDI forums, so it makes sense why it was moved. If you see other threads, even ones posted by us, that you think belong in a different forum, make the request known and it will be evaluated and possibly moved. The threads aren't being buried, they're just being moved to the appropriate forums.
#9 wrecan Mar 01, 2012 10:41:53	If you truly are here to lead the community, you should be more accepting about what the community actually is. Then there would be no need for guides or leaders. But it's been decided that there should be people guiding and leading. And guiding and leading does not mean let things fall where they may. It means helping to ensure things work as they are intended. We do listen to the community for how to make things work better, but I don't agree that allowing Rules Q&A to be a place to discuss things other than rules, or CharOp to be a place to discuss things other than optimization would make the community work better. Why don't I think that? Because I was here before the VCL program was instituted and I saw all the complaints that nobody could find stuff and people were posting in inppropriate places. Those complaints are almost entirely gone and have been for years. We can't eliminate complaints, but in my opinion, the forums work much better now (whch does nto mean perfectly) than before the VCL program was instituted.
#10 Mand12 Mar 01, 2012 18:19:39	The threads aren't being buried, they're just being moved to the appropriate forums. As judged by the title of the forum and the content of the post? Absolutely, you'll get no argument. But "appropriate" means a lot more once you recognize the different, distinct communities that exist within each subforum. Frothsof posted the thread in 4e General because he wanted the people in 4e General to read it. Even if none of the threads were moved, we're not approaching the levels of allegedly off-topic threads such that they start to squeeze out the rest of the posts. It is a simple fact that not every forumgoer posts in or even reads every forum. Why can't the diverse nature of the community site be recognized and valued by the people who run it? Especially when the forum in question is labeled "general." Why can't the post be on-topic and appropriate for 4e General because the audience is general, rather than solely going by the text in the post?
#11 Webster Mar 01, 2012 18:56:57	How is a thread about DDI not of interest to the DDI community? And if the DDI community doesn't read every forum, how would they see if it if it's buried in the general forum? The DDI community was very much top of mind when the thread was moved. And the community (as a whole) konws if they want to talk about DDI, there's a DDI section. If they want to talk Magic the Gathering, there's an area for that as well.
#12 Webster Mar 01, 2012 21:38:19	The DDI forum is where to go to talk about DDI. If people in General want to talk DDI, they should go to the DDI forum. You can't force people into a topic "you" want to talk about just by putting it in the wrong area. If they want to talk DDI, they'll go to the DDI forum. Since they're seemingly NOT "hanging out" in the DDI forum, that means they don't want to talk DDI. Again, because if they did, they would. You don't go buy a pair of socks in the milk aisle of your supermarket. You don't go to a sports station expecting to see cartoons. And what of the folks that hang out in the DDI forum? Since the thread would impact them more than in a General forum (Which IS a forum of "last resort", not first posting...), wouldn't it be unfair to them if they didn't see it? The responses to the thread will be greater, and have more impact than if left on the general forum where people don't care, aren't subscirbers, or aren't interested in the topic. (If they were, they'd be hanging out in the DDI forum talking about it. ;) )
#13 ORC_Ragnar Mar 02, 2012 8:33:45	I am locking this thread at this point. A Community Lead and VCL's have responded to the question posed by this thread. There is no need for further discussion on the matter.