What should be done with 5e threads?
I'll post my thoughts and opinions after a few responses.
-Speculation on release date/development timeline and general proclamations of doom.
-What changes/features people would like to see in 5e.
-Discussion on how much life 4e has left in it.
-Why I hate 4e and want 5e to hurry up
So we don't derail other threads:
What should be done with 5e threads?
I'll post my thoughts and opinions after a few responses.
Are they really planning on making 5e so soon?!
Consolidate them based on category:
-Speculation on release date/development timeline and general proclamations of doom.
-What changes/features people would like to see in 5e.
-Discussion on how much life 4e has left in it.
-Why I hate 4e and want 5e to hurry up
Why I love 4e and think that WotC should never, ever change it
Discussions on why/how WotC is being an evil, greedy corporation that just wants to screw its customers and I'll never buy anything from them again!
(Or would that fit better somewhere else?)Non-flaming discussions about the above (mostly consisting of: previous editions have changed approximately every ten years, why is 5e being rushed?)
Are they really planning on making 5e so soon?!
There's no hard evidence to support that speculation, no. But, this being the Internet, random unfounded speculation abounds.
My question is whether RPG desin discussions in general should go into RPGs General. Specifically, Monte Cook's Legends and Lore articles are discussing game design in general, using present and prior editions of D&D as a rubric to discuss game design. Shouldn't these and similar threads go into RPGs General, along with all the Pathfinder and 5e discussion?
If so, we're about to make RPGs General a much more active forum, but I think that may be a good thing.
So yeah, changing things up in the forum reorg so that kind of thing is as clear as we can make it sounds perfect to me.
My only concern with moving all 5e threads to RPG General is that there really isn't much traffic there. On one hand, that may be a good thing as the threads can die before devolving into a flame war. On the other hand, that may (and I say "may" because sometimes you get three threads in the same forum on the same topic) cause more 5e threads to keep appearing since they see no ongoing discussion in which to post their thoughts.
Just put a sticky notice on top of the 4e boards that says '5e Threads Go (Here)'.
Just put a sticky notice on top of the 4e boards that says '5e Threads Go (Here)'.
That works too. It also has the added benefit of pointing people in the right direction when the 5e threads that they post anyway disappear from that forum.
Just put a sticky notice on top of the 4e boards that says '5e Threads Go (Here)'.
That works too. It also has the added benefit of pointing people in the right direction when the 5e threads that they post anyway disappear from that forum.
One Sticky in Future Releases or General. Easier to mod.
As of this post, there's NO 5e annoucement. There is NO 5e in the product catalog. There is NO 5e on Amazon. 5e does not currently exist. (That's not to say they're not working on it, but thats also NOT saying they are.)
Can't people just have honest intensions when they talk about 5e?
Based on experience? No, they can't. And even if the OP can, such threads inevitably draw people with less benign intentions. 5E threads have, if anything, an even worse track record for descending into unpleasantness than threads about politics or religion, and those aren't allowed here (even in the Off-Topic forum) for precisely that reason.
Your statement can apply to any subject on these boards, not just 5e. If unpleasantness happen, ORCs exist to remedy that problem.
Yes, if we generalize far enough all problems become interchangeable. But in context, it's clear that some topics are more hot-button than others. 5e speculation has proven to be one of those issues.
And yes Customer Service (of which the ORCs are one facet) exists, in part, to remedy the problem. And the remedy they chose is to move 5e threads to RPGs Discussion.
Can't people just have honest intensions when they talk about 5e?
Based on experience? No, they can't. And even if the OP can, such threads inevitably draw people with less benign intentions. 5E threads have, if anything, an even worse track record for descending into unpleasantness than threads about politics or religion, and those aren't allowed here (even in the Off-Topic forum) for precisely that reason.
Your statement can apply to any subject on these boards, not just 5e. If unpleasantness happen, ORCs exist to remedy that problem.
Welcome to the internet. The trolls can be quite creative at times.
I don't think they had just started working on 4E right at that moment. Those kinds of things are years in the making.
3E came out in 2000, and Wikipedia says it was worked on for 3 years (Wizards did get TSR in 1997 after all). 4E came out in 2008, and the great Wiki says they started working on it in 2005, again 3 years (June 05 to May 08 is almost exactly 3 years). If one were to look at an 8 year window between the two editions as some sort of rubric, then it might be a bit early to assume that they're working on 5E by time alone (assuming it comes out in 2016, then they'll start working on it in 2013 ...).
3.5 did come out 3 years after 3E. Essentials came out in 2010, only 2 years after 4E. Perhaps the mere existance of D&D Insider and the inhouse Dungeon and Dragon magazines is speeding up the evolution of the game?
I personally think they're working on it now. Recent "Rule of Three" and "Legends and Lore" articles really seem to point towards at least the thought of another edition. They've hit all of 3E's bases and added new ones. They've started to make themes and kits, I mean builds, more heavily now. Unearthed Arcana came out in 2004, just before they started working on 4E.
Trends point in the direction that it is on the horizon. I don't suspect a full edition, though. I suspect something more like a 4.5; a new edition that uses the old rules. I hope for a new character building system that can be layed over the current rules and monster systems.
/facepalm
They started working on 4e in 2005. They said so.
Even if I do not think you're trolling, this is not the thread to discuss whether 5e is in the works or what it will look like.
It will however take time, and there is no shame in doing experiments for later use...
Lot of hypocrisy and accusations, wrong or good, levied at WOTC, sadly.
Your statement can apply to any subject on these boards, not just 5e.
Can apply. But, in the vast majority of cases, doesn't. Which is the point. 5e threads nearly always flame out. Most other topics rarely do.
If unpleasantness happen, ORCs exist to remedy that problem.
OK, so let's discuss this race of soulless and irredeemably evil humanoids I just invented based very obviously on [insert real-world ethnic minority here]. After all, if we end up in a massive flamewar because people accuse me of being a horrible racist, the "ORCs exist to remedy that problem", right?
If a particular topic is known (either through experience or just common sense) to be almost guaranteed to start flamewars, then it's perfectly legitimate for such a topic to be banned or restricted to a particular subsection of the forums. Not all topics are equal.
Honestly, from what I've seen, 5e threads degenerate often because the "super 4e avenger team" decides to baite, flame and call the OP a troll. Talking about 5e is not problematic in itself.
QFT
If 5e talks really are problematic, why not ban them as a subject, instead of dumping them in an obscure forum? I think talking about 4e was banned for a while in the old forums.
I don't remember any banning about talking about 4e. I remember that threads got shut down quickly because they always degenerated into flame wars. At any rate, are you really suggesting that CS is simultaneously being too strict (by shunting 5e threads to Other RPGs) and too lenient (by not closing every 5e thread as it begins)?
If closing all 5e thread is acceptable to you, then the lesser sanction of moving them out of the forums where they are likely to be seen as most inflammatory should likewise be acceptable.
And, of course the ORCs should deal with the folks who act in contravention of the CoC, in every thread. It's not an either/or proposition. You can do both. In my experience, that is what happens.
Honestly, from what I've seen, 5e threads degenerate often because the "super 4e avenger team" decides to baite, flame and call the OP a troll. Talking about 5e is not problematic in itself.
QFT
And the 'Champions of D&D's Legacy, Templars of Gygax'" love to throw 4th fans's that they are wrong, that the edition they like is NOT D&D, etc.
Amusing how ONE side is accused. Hypocrital.
No wonder those threads degenerate, when one side is 'right' in the eyes of so-called 'neutral beholders'.
And it is an example why I feels the D&D communauty needs a temp. divorce for now.
And it is an example why I feels the D&D communauty needs a temp. divorce for now.
No need. The separation is usually sufficient.
Honestly, from what I've seen, 5e threads degenerate often because the "super 4e avenger team" decides to baite, flame and call the OP a troll. Talking about 5e is not problematic in itself.
QFT
And the 'Champions of D&D's Legacy, Templars of Gygax'" love to throw 4th fans's that they are wrong, that the edition they like is NOT D&D, etc.
Amusing how ONE side is accused. Hypocrital.
No wonder those threads degenerate, when one side is 'right' in the eyes of so-called 'neutral beholders'.
*shrug*
Or, someone doesn't really like D&D, any edition, but is interested and amused by the discussions from both sides.
Someone like, say... ME!
Almost any subject here degenerates into flame wars. Such is the life cycle of threads on these boards.
If that were true, I'd expect to see a lot more locked threads than there in fact are. But I must admit I've been away from the forums for a couple of months, so I guess it's possible things now are much worse than I remember. I think this is more likely to be a case of observational bias, though.