It would not stop any interested parties from reading what players have contributed to these boards, nor would it infringe upon the rights of anyone venting their disappointment in 4E if they actually bought a copy, as opposed to those people who formed their opinions based on rumors they read prior to release, a copy they leafed through at a store or a friend's house, or from reading a pirated PDF.
Say what you will about the WoW forums if you've ever seen them; at least the 'this game sucks!' threads are limited to those made by players who actually own an active account... if ex-players or players who never played but have an opinion on MMOs anyway were allowed to post there, it would make them nigh-unusable, or at the minimum require the kind of draconian, indiscriminate 'dont anyone hurt anyone elses feelings' retarded moderation we see here.
At least on the WoW forums, a player knows that even if his fellow posters are occasionally noobs or idiots, at least they care enough about the game to put their money where their mouth is.
Personally I'm not thrilled with the idea of coughing up money for a subscription just to get access to forums like this. Unfortunately though given the way that prices in general are going, and that at some level somebody has to have a reasonable amount of hardware and bandwidth available to make a good set of forums work well, there may be no way to get around it for a large enough operation.
Now I'll readily agree that many patrons do in fact suck and will run amok, but this attitude of hosing your regular citizenry to curb the actions of the bad seeds and considering this acceptable collateral damage that has already pretty much permeated the political climate and thus our society at large is disheartening to say the least, for me anyway.
It hasn't seemed to do much good for the WoW fora. The environment is still extremely caustic and has an abysmal signal to noise ratio. I also think it's in WotC's interest to allow people who aren't going to buy into this edition to post why. Remember also that every poster who comes in and posts "I flipped through a friend's copy, and I'm not buying it because of __________" is an opportunity for satisfied users to explain the results that change has on gameplay, or clarify the rules if the poster misunderstood what he read. There are benefits to letting anyone who cares enough to post have his say, and moderating after the fact.
I agree that this is a bad idea, for the reasons quoted above. One of the main reasons that I did not initially refuse to buy the 4e books was because I was able to have some of my more serious concerns refuted by people who already owned the books - had I not been able to post on these forums, I probably would never have purchased them. While I agree that all the anti- and pro-4e flamewars are annoying, there's really not a whole lot that can be done about it except for the moderators to shut down threads that get out of hand.
The WoW boards have their own problems, which are related in most part to the internal conflicts within the game itself, because the user base is divided into Horde and Alliance, Raiders and Casuals, PvPers and... themselves. There are all these groups that dont get along because they play the game a different way from each other and think they can use the forums as a battleground to win the favor of the developers to make the game more suited to their way of playing, at the expense of the other groups who in their eyes get too much time in the limelight.
These arent the same issues we have here; we all play D&D, but there is a minority who (99% of which) havent bought a single 4E book who arent contributing anything but bile and tears to the 4E boards.
I appreciate that there are people who are still on the fence regarding 4E, who should be given every opportunity to consider giving it a try... I think its best if they can only read though, not post until they actually buy a book.
My reasoning for this is that there are bound to be posts by players who only just bought a 4E PHB discussing rules and concepts that elude them, or differences they have discovered between old and new editions... and there would still be plenty of reviews being written by people who actually have immediate access to a 4E PHB, not just a copy they read very briefly.
See, to get a true representative view of 4E you need to be getting your information from people who know it well... what value does the opinion of someone who never tried it have? how well can someone actually know the rules if they havent read the books front-to-back over several sittings?
You dont need to hear the opinions of 3E fanatics to know how the old and new editions compare to each other, because most 4E players were 3E players not that long ago and are perfectly capable of identifying the differences because they know both systems well, wheras 3E fanatics only know 3E.
Look, I agree that the average WoW forum user is a step or five below the average D&D forum user, but at least the WoW community forums dont get people that play competing MMOs (but do not currently play wow - and there arent too many people who have the free time or money for more than 1 MMO at once) coming to their boards to stir up trouble.
The WoW boards have their own problems, which are related in most part to the internal conflicts within the game itself, because the user base is divided into Horde and Alliance, Raiders and Casuals, PvPers and... themselves. There are all these groups that dont get along because they play the game a different way from each other and think they can use the forums as a battleground to win the favor of the developers to make the game more suited to their way of playing, at the expense of the other groups who in their eyes get too much time in the limelight.
These arent the same issues we have here; we all play D&D, but there is a minority who (99% of which) havent bought a single 4E book who arent contributing anything but bile and tears to the 4E boards.
I appreciate that there are people who are still on the fence regarding 4E, who should be given every opportunity to consider giving it a try... I think its best if they can only read though, not post until they actually buy a book.
My reasoning for this is that there are bound to be posts by players who only just bought a 4E PHB discussing rules and concepts that elude them, or differences they have discovered between old and new editions... and there would still be plenty of reviews being written by people who actually have immediate access to a 4E PHB, not just a copy they read very briefly.
See, to get a true representative view of 4E you need to be getting your information from people who know it well... what value does the opinion of someone who never tried it have? how well can someone actually know the rules if they havent read the books front-to-back over several sittings?
You dont need to hear the opinions of 3E fanatics to know how the old and new editions compare to each other, because most 4E players were 3E players not that long ago and are perfectly capable of identifying the differences because they know both systems well, wheras 3E fanatics only know 3E.
The problem is that it isn't just 3e fanatics causing the problem - it's 4e fanatics as well, and while some argue that one side is worse than the other, I'm going to operate under the assumption that both sides are equally guilty until one of the moderators takes up a giant tally list of all the problematic posters on both sides and can prove that one is contributing more than the other. Allowing only people who have purchased 4e books would solve only half of the problem, and would in fact only make it even worse because now you would be blatantly favoring one side by "protecting" them, while allowing 4e fanatics to freely enter the 3e forums and continue to wage flamewars. If you don't want to listen to the fanatics, don't - skip over their posts or even put them on your ignore list, and report any posts that violate the CoC. Trying to segregate the community, even if it's with the best intentions, is never going to be an approach that Wizards takes.
No codes in those books.
Dumb idea.
End of thread.
At least on the WoW forums, a player knows that even if his fellow posters are occasionally noobs or idiots, at least they care enough about the game to put their money where their mouth is.
RQF, you may well be an idiot and a noob, but whether or not you are, neither I nor most of the other people on this board care how much money you've spent.
A lot of resistant and grumpy 3/3.5 players have probably given WOTC more money than you have, by that measure. At least half the complaints I've heard have come from people who have put down "good money" for the new edition. A lot is just normal griping. It's not as if the WoW forums aren't full of complaints about the latest updates from Blizzard... every single update cycle.
Restricted forum registration for GDF? Lousy idea, pointless at this point, and - given how much trouble WOTC has had putting D&D Insider together - probably would not have come together very well. Plus, there's the problem that many groups rely upon sharing books. Typically, there aren't more than half as many PHBs as players, and usually only 1-2 copies each of DMGs and MMs, and only rarely duplicated splatbooks.
I would like it if you tried to be a little less caustic to other posters. I sense much hostility from you.
It hasn't seemed to do much good for the WoW fora. The environment is still extremely caustic and has an abysmal signal to noise ratio.
Biggest understatement of the year.
Look, I agree that the average WoW forum user is a step or five below the average D&D forum user, but at least the WoW community forums dont get people that play competing MMOs (but do not currently play wow - and there arent too many people who have the free time or money for more than 1 MMO at once) coming to their boards to stir up trouble.
Yes, it DOES get people from competing MMOs. And even worse, people who are looking forward to upcoming MMOs. There are literally thousands (and I do mean literally) of posts such as "why play WoW when its just Waiting On Warhammer LOL".
I love WoW, but it's official forum is probably the worst possible place to discuss anything; IMO Blizzard should just kill the entire forum and be done with it.
And I disagree entirely with the idea of requiring payment to post on these forums; there will ALWAYS be dedicated trolls (unless it's a very, very private forum). I think these forums can & should be a place where D&D newbies can ask "What is D&D" and get an answer. Where D&D 3e, 2e, 1e, and whatever players can discuss the game. An open forum, not a limited forum.
Basic Edition.
Advanced 1st
Advanced 2nd edition X 3 copies
3.0 Edition
3.5 Edition (why I needed a whole new book I don't get)
And that's just Player Hand Books.
I also own the DMG's for Advanced 1st, 2nd, 3.0 and 3.5.
I also own MANY of the published adventures from I9 Ravenloft to the republished "Expedition to Ravenloft" for 3.5.
So if it's a matter of paying for access to the forum, I bought enough books to talk DnD, junior.
Second I do own a copy of 4th edition but I also find these forums a good source of conversation for ALL things DnD and not just 4th edition issues. I probalby will NEVER play 4th edition as I do not like the changes. Oddly enough shelling out the $30 for copy of the new PHB didn't change a bloody thing; the things I knew I didn't like BEFORE I bought it, I still don't like now that I do own a copy.
Your suggestion is the internet equivelant of "If you don't like our game, bugger off".
Rorlins
Do I make any attempt to obfuscate my opinion that people who dont want to discuss 4E or dont have their facts straight to discuss 4E should not be allowed to post on the 4E forums?
WoTC has make a whole subsection of these forums dedicated to discussing past editions of D&D products... funny how you dont get 4E players trolling over there... I guess that must mean only the 3E players are the problem.
As far as I am concerned, if you havent bought a 4E manual or you dont play 4E you have no business talking about D&D in a 4E forum. I didnt come here looking for an argument; that is the kind of behavior that gets a person branded with a particular reputation... but since Im the only one here trying to discuss the matter I guess its fairly obvious what that makes all of you.
I guess its fairly obvious what that makes all of you.
It makes us right.
WoTC has make a whole subsection of these forums dedicated to discussing past editions of D&D products... funny how you dont get 4E players trolling over there... I guess that must mean only the 3E players are the problem.
Consider some of the problem forum members may not play D&D at all, and are just here to cause trouble. Some could also have switched over and just like the attention.
As far as I am concerned, if you havent bought a 4E manual or you dont play 4E you have no business talking about D&D in a 4E forum.
Then I'm very glad that you don't own the D&D brand.
I didnt come here looking for an argument;
No, apparently you expect everyone who disagrees with you to keep silent. If anyone has no business in a forum... you fill in the rest.