I think some forums could be and probably should be consolidated.
Here's my suggestions:
1. 4e Character Development should be consolidated into What's a Player to Do?
2. 4e Combat: Traps, Terrain & Tactics should be consolidated into What's a DM to Do?
3. Move 4e General Discussion to the bottom of the Fundamentals section, not the top, to reduce the ridiculous proportion of off-topic threads in that forum.
4. Move the FIND PLAYERS IN YOUR AREA HERE redirect to the HQ section.
Edit:
Here's what I'd like to see for a forum reorganization, if CM ever decides that such a thing makes sense. Since I only want Fundamentals to be reorganized I'll limit my list to that section...
D&D Fundamentals
- 4e Controllers
- 4e Defenders
- 4e Leaders
- 4e Strikers
- 4e Multiclassing, Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies
- 4e Races and Monsters
- 4e Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items
D&D Analysis
- 4e General Discussion
- 4e Rules Q&A
- 4e Character Optimization
- 4e Books Errata
- Sub-Forums: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, Adventurer's Vault, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Martial Power, Draconomicon, Manual of the Planes, Open Grave, Dungeon Delve, Adventures, Player's Handbook 2
3. Move 4e General Discussion to the bottom of the Fundamentals section, not the top, to reduce the ridiculous proportion of off-topic threads in that forum.
I'll echo this, and it does help. There was a time long ago when General was at the top of the list, and the same problem happened -- everything got posted to general. Moving it down helped quite a bit; it forced people to look through the other forums to find it, and on the way there they find a place that better fits their topic.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and argue that Homebrewing *is* a fundamental part of DnD and should be at the top of that. Further, this has the bonus of making Homebrew the Catchall that General has become -- except a lot of the stuff it catches will actually be OT for Homebrew.
Further, I'd argue that General should be at the top of Community rather than the bottom of Fundamentals.
3. Move 4e General Discussion to the bottom of the Fundamentals section, not the top, to reduce the ridiculous proportion of off-topic threads in that forum.
Thirding this. Would it make sense for General and Rules Q&A to switch places?
On a related note, is it possible to view a forum without seeing the moved threads?
Thirding this. Would it make sense for General and Rules Q&A to switch places?
No, that wouldn't make sense. Then Rules Q&A would get all the threads that currently go in General. I'd just move General down to under Rules Q&A and leave Controllers as the top forum.
And incidentally, I don't think What's a DM to Do? is a good choice for the top forum, again because it has a very broad focus overall. Lots of things can be considered on topic there, especially to somebody who's new to the forum. Controllers is a good choice, because it's by definition a very narrow topic, and that's reinforced by seeing Defenders right under it.
Also, Could we kick Homebrew up to the top of... something?
I guess we could move it to the top of Fundamentals, which would mean moving and 3e homebrew materials to Previous Editions General.
Actually, if we moved all the homebrewed class threads out of the Class, Race and Monster forums into Homebrew, we probably could consolidate the class-based forums.
Further, I'd argue that General should be at the top of Community rather than the bottom of Fundamentals.
That would make it worse. Plus General Discussion is "4e General Discussion". It needs to be in the 4e-specific part of the forums, which is Fundamentals.
And incidentally, I don't think What's a DM to Do? is a good choice for the top forum, again because it has a very broad focus overall.
As the former Forum Lead for WaDMtD? I second Zherog's analysis. WaDMtD? should remain at the top of the Community subsection. Don't move it into Fundamentals.
(Another reason not to put it in Fundamentals is that Fundamentals is the 4e-specific section and WaDMtD? is open to discussing DMing in all editions.)
I guess we could move it to the top of Fundamentals, which would mean moving and 3e homebrew materials to Previous Editions General.
Actually, if we moved all the homebrewed class threads out of the Class, Race and Monster forums into Homebrew, we probably could consolidate the class-based forums.
That would make it worse. Plus General Discussion is "4e General Discussion". It needs to be in the 4e-specific part of the forums, which is Fundamentals.
I wasn't aware that Community was mixed edition. Why is it mixed edition?
I'd think the current edition deserves it's own ****/DMTG? of their own just as much as 3e did.
There's a Previous Editions forum, there's very little excuse for them not to have their own homebrew section at least -- they're putting it in the other forums there anyway. They already essentially have WADMTD? in the form of the Adventures and Encounters board.
I think we definitely need a 4e Homebrew section near the top, because it is currently a pain hunting down material to look at because it's everywhere due to Homebrew being all the way down in the part of the forum only I look at.
I'd think the current edition deserves it's own ****/DMTG? of their own just as much as 3e did.
WaPtD? and WaDMtD? have always been edition neutral. Those forums had the occasional TSR-edition threads and nobody ever told them to go elsewhere.
The Community forums are for the D&D playing community of every edition. Always have and, I hope, always will.
I think we definitely need a 4e Homebrew section near the top, because it is currently a pain hunting down material to look at because it's everywhere due to Homebrew being all the way down in the part of the forum only I look at.
I'd support that, though I wouldn't want to be the guy in charge of moving all the incorrectly placed threads into that forum.
-Furthermore, while things are being done, various preexisting sections need descriptions, as per THIS thread, started by Zherog.
Here's my suggestions:
1. 4e Character Development should be consolidated into What's a Player to Do?
'4e Character Development' into 'What's a Player to DO?' seems like an odd fit to me. The fomer focuses on roleplaying and backstory, while the latter focuses on sticky game questions.
Maybe Character Development couble be a sub-forum of What's a Player to Do?, rather than an actual consolodation.
I leave it to the experts ;) to decide what to do of course, but that's my suggestion.
Regardless of what was in the past, those forums now are positioned to serve any version of the game.
'4e Character Development' into 'What's a Player to DO?' seems like an odd fit to me. The fomer focuses on roleplaying and backstory, while the latter focuses on sticky game questions.
Maybe Character Development couble be a sub-forum of What's a Player to Do?, rather than an actual consolodation.
I leave it to the experts ;) to decide what to do of course, but that's my suggestion.
What's a Player to do? does have some threads about sticky problems, but they seem to be only a portion of a fairly diverse forum. There's also a smattering of involved rules questions, story-sharing, and what I call 'generator' threads (the various lists of ideas). Player Development wouldn't be a bad fit there imo, although a sub-forum could possibly be just as useful.
If Traps, Terrain, and Tactics is consolidated (which seems like a good idea to me) it should be noted that there are several threads in there that are about player tactics. As long as those threads are moved into appropriate forums it should be fine.
Fair enough. Though now I wonder what purpose the PE Adventures and Encounters board serves.
That is one of those odd Gamer_Zer0 legacies. When the reorganization was first discussed, I had placed Campaign Workshop in the 4e only section, so I proposed Adventures and Encounters to be the previous edition version.
Campaign Workshop ended up, appropriately, I think, in Community. But Adventures and Encounters remained, basically because TPTB had already approved it and we were trying to give the Previous Editions fans as many forums as TPTB would allow.
There's no reason to keep it, but I see no reason to disband it either.
Frankly, my belief is that the PE boards should have a complete forum where they don't have to pick through other peoples' stuff. It's not about excluding them, it's about making everyone's life easier.
I'm wondering if there's going to be a point when the Legacy Forums go away.
I don't think so. It certainly shouldn't go above Community. I think if you're coming to the D&D site to discuss an unsupported edition, you have to expect the forums for discontinued games are going to be near the bottom.
-That doesn't flow at all, which is why I brought it up.
Since when does WaPtD? focus on sticky game questions? WaPtD? focuses on any issues that arise as a player qua player (as opposed to a DM or designer). It's pretty broad and roleplaying issues are often discussed in WaPtD?, which, in my opinion, is one of the reasons Character Development often has a pretty thin content. It's redundant.
That's the focus, based on the forum description:
"Whether dealing with a sticky in-game situation or a difficult out-of-game scenario (and everything in between), this forum allows D&D players to seek guidance and advice from their peers. No problem or question is too difficult!"
It seems (to me) that the focus of 4e Character Development will end up blurred in WaPtD?. As mentioned, you guys and gals are the experts (do your thing ;)); I just wanted to get the suggestion out there.
3. Move 4e General Discussion to the bottom of the Fundamentals section, not the top, to reduce the ridiculous proportion of off-topic threads in that forum.
Quinted (or whatever number we are up to for people agreeing with this move.
4. Consolidate the individual book sections.
I suggest "New Releases"
Or fade them away after a while.
The PHB Board has a total of 196 threads after a year.
DMG has 24.
FRCG has 9.
These "Boards" take up over one half of the Fundamentals section, with 630 total threads across 12 "Boards" That's the same as the Errata Board alone. And over half of those threads are in just two sections: PHB and Adventurer's Vault.
Quinted (or whatever number we are up to for people agreeing with this move.
4. Consolidate the individual book sections.
I suggest "New Releases"
Or fade them away after a while.
The PHB Board has a total of 196 threads after a year.
DMG has 24.
FRCG has 9.
These "Boards" take up over one half of the Fundamentals section, with 630 total threads across 12 "Boards" That's the same as the Errata Board alone. And over half of those threads are in just two sections: PHB and Adventurer's Vault.
Are you talking about the errata sub-forums? Or something else that I'm not understanding?
Are you talking about the errata sub-forums? Or something else that I'm not understanding?
When I login, I am taken straight to D&D Fundamentals.
When you scroll halfway down, immediately below the Errata Board are listed the individual book lists.
If that is a list of "sub-forums" then their placement is a little bit overwhelming for their content. They are half the Boards that list under D&D Fundamentals, and although they are at the bottom, they seem to visually dominate the page.
And why would sub-forums be fully-listed at the top level, rather than expand only when the main forum is selected? Although I understand the desire for a "pimp the newest book" forum, and errata is important, a separate forum for each book is not really needed. If it is intended as "newest book" then rotate them out after a set time period. If it is intended as an errata repository, that is easily accomplished in a single forum with a standard tagging-in-title principle like that used in the Gamers Classifieds.
If Character Development is to be consolidated, I'd lean towards merging it with the class-related forums, so you have:
"Character Development: Controllers"
"Character Development: Defenders"
etc.
The only thing I don't like about this is that many of the CharDev posts are general rather than pertaining to specific classes/roles. I agree that WaPtD doesn't really feel like a good forum to merge it with, as the latter is usually focused on gameplay problems rather than story development.
It would be a bigger change, but I wonder if it would work better to split up the role-based forums and have the character-related ones be based on different aspects of character development (story and mechanics). Something like...
Character Development: Backgrounds and Roleplaying.
Character Development: Classes, Paragon Paths, and Epic Destinies.
Character Development: Powers, Skills, and Feats.
(They might need more subdivision than that, but it gets the general idea across.)
While I'm at it, I'm not sure if the Houserules and Homebrew forum receives enough traffic to justify reorganizing, but could we consider a sub-forum for player created races, classes, paragon paths and epic destinies?
Can Webster or another VCL confirm whether these changes might actually be considered, or are we just whistling dixie here?
Also, Could we kick Homebrew up to the top of... something?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and argue that Homebrewing *is* a fundamental part of DnD and should be at the top of that. Further, this has the bonus of making Homebrew the Catchall that General has become -- except a lot of the stuff it catches will actually be OT for Homebrew.
Further, I'd argue that General should be at the top of Community rather than the bottom of Fundamentals.
I'd like to see the Homebrew forums removed entirely. Back in the day home brew stuff was posted in the appropriate forums, and thus got a lot more feedback than it does now. I'd love to put my new idea for Paragon Multiclassing into the Paragon Path forums because I think they get more traffic, but I don't think it's allowed...?
Barring that, it would be nice to see them somewhere more visible. Sitting down below "What's a Player/DM to do" doesn't really work... Those forums are pretty different thematically.
Back in what day? There was a Homebrew forum during 3rd edition in exactly the same place the 4e Homebrew forum is -- between What's a Player to Do? and Camapign Workshop.
And yet back then homebrew stuff was permitted - and even encouraged - on other forums.
Back in what day? There was a Homebrew forum during 3rd edition in exactly the same place the 4e Homebrew forum is -- between What's a Player to Do? and Camapign Workshop.
There was? I never once saw it back then. Maybe I missed it.
All I knew is that if you had a new class, you posted it in the "Classes" forum.