Who do I email and complain to?
But I already bought the free stuff, so not really a bonus for me.
The free stuff is a substantially improved version of what you already own. Consider it an "update" or "patch" to your previously acquired product.
Otherwise its updated, and its probably an attempt to hook people into running a campaign for friends.
But the ability to buy pdfs are. Which is the point of the post.
I WANT MY PDFS BACK!
Disclaimer: Most of my 4e purchases have been in PDF format, due to lack of space for dead-tree books in my apartment. I, too, would like to see the PDFs come back, I was just trying to add some perspective on this decision (the new releases) from a business POV.
I bought my pdfs.
I bought this adventure.
I want them to sell pdfs and instead they give this away, basically taunting me.
I haven't bought the AP book yet. And won't buy any books until they sell them as pdfs again.
Or I guess, if I wait long enough, they'll just give me all the books for free, and make no money. That sounds like a sound business POV.
I give this thread 2/10 for entertainment value, 9/10 for obnoxiousness.
Way to use an act of good-will on WotC's part as a flimsy pretext to complain about an old and unrelated business decision on their part - and in an unreadable and eye-strainingly bad font-color at that.
I give this thread 2/10 for entertainment value, 9/10 for obnoxiousness.
I second that. PinkRose, can you please change your name to a less straining color? :D
On the other hand, I can't stop feeling cheated now that KOTS was released on PDF for free because I paid good money for the real deal. Sure I got the Maps. But I can just as well print them.
I don't care why they are doing it.
I bought my pdfs.
I bought this adventure.
I want them to sell pdfs and instead they give this away, basically taunting me.
I haven't bought the AP book yet. And won't buy any books until they sell them as pdfs again.
Or I guess, if I wait long enough, they'll just give me all the books for free, and make no money. That sounds like a sound business POV.
Yep. They did it just to mock you.
Or, like many popular MMOs, they're giving the first hit of the addictive drug for free, in hopes they'll come back for more.
If you already have this, if you already play DnD, this isn't for you.
The PDF complain thread, by the way, is over there -------->
(Over on D&D General we have two threads *praising* the decision to make entry into D&D easy. I think I just need to stay away from the Meta-Board.)
oh...
wait...
I downloaded the PDF this morning so that, as long as I have acess to a computer, I have access to a DND adventure I already know how to run in case I want to dump the game on some unsuspecting friends.
More ways to make new players is a good thing.
...you are giving away pdfs of the quick start rules and pdfs of Keep on the Shadowfell, and yet you won't sell pdfs for people to buy?
Who do I email and complain to?
/dev/null
Heaven forbid a company try to reach out to prospective clients with a free taste test! Go to your local supermarket; if there are any people cooking small samples of food in the store, slap them for offending your morals.
After all, some people may have bought the food before the taste test was available.
2) Take a ride on the Waaaaambulance.
Sooo, you're mad because they're giving away the first real 4e product (as far as I know) for free in the cheapest way that is conveniently available to WotC and the public. This was done to promote a game we all enjoy, so there will be more players (and DMs).
I. see.
(Checks date)
Nope, not April 1st....
Dude (or Dudette), seriously, if they don't want to sell pdfs' it's their business. The only thing they owe me ( or any of us, really) is a copy of whatever item we paid to get from them (e.g. books, miniatures, maps, etc). If I don't want a dead tree edition of a book, I will not get it. If I want a pdf, and it's not available legally, oh well, I don't get it. I work damn hard for my money, and I'm fairly sure they do too.
Sorry, i just realized I was ranting...
Not that I agree with the OP, but does wizards really think that because they are not selling PDF's anymore that it will stop the online distribution of their products? I don't think it will, people will still put them online and other people will still download them. The music business has been trying for years to stop pirating with no real success. I hope that wizards realize this and start selling PDF's again.
This free adventure and the PDF thing are two very different things.
There are already COUNTLESS threads about the PDF thing. It has been gone over time and time again. Frankly, I wish they'd bring them back just so It'd stop people complaining about it. Not that I don't think it is a relevant complaint: it is, most definitely.
But somehow connecting that with this free tutorial adventure borders on insanity.
Not that I agree with the OP, but does wizards really think that because they are not selling PDF's anymore that it will stop the online distribution of their products? I don't think it will, people will still put them online and other people will still download them. The music business has been trying for years to stop pirating with no real success. I hope that wizards realize this and start selling PDF's again.
The difference though, between pirated music and the original, and pirated scans and the original, is vast.
Copy a track from a CD and you make a digital copy of a digital product. You can't tell the difference between the two at the end of the copy process.
The original PDFs are searchable, quality products. As new books are produced, copies of them produced illegally will be quite obvious.
Will they be pirated none-the-less? Absolutely - but you'll know it's a bad copy, and it'll be a lot harder to use.
My name shows up when I make the post. If you don't like it, you don't have to read them.
B, when I post, I expect a flame. Doesn't bother me.
Third, It was never my point to complain about the free pdfs. More people playing is good. And, as I said, I bought the adventure.
Finally, My point was the selling of the pdf, then the giving away of the pdf, when less then a month ago, they stopped selling all the other pdfs because people were getting them for free.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to complain about the game that I love and have played for 22 years.
...you are giving away pdfs of the quick start rules and pdfs of Keep on the Shadowfell, and yet you won't sell pdfs for people to buy?
Who do I email and complain to?
Because when it is already free, pirating it is meaningless.
The sibling analogy fails because you're saying no one else is allowed to do harm to your sibling, but you still are. The wrong in that is the doing of harm to the sibling, not the idea that you and your sibling might have certain exclusive rights with each other.
So how are you or anyone else harmed by WotC giving away H1 in PDF form?
Another thing to consider, is that they know they'll take a hit on these PDFs. They made a conscious decision to have the quickstart rules and KotS available for free. The other PDFs they took down after they were being distributed for free without such distribution being a decision on the part of the company.
From another thread on the subject where I posted the following:
"I would love to see some kind of official word from WOTC on this issue.
I did not participate in the other threads. I will calmly explain my point of view, all of which is based on the business decisions.
WOTC could have come out with free copies of PDF files for each hard cover book purchased. A simple code printed on a sticker on the inside cover would have done the trick. This would necessitate the sealing of the books in shrink wrap. Answer the "preview before buying" problem by giving stores preview copies to keep in store and making a few pages or a chapter available for preview online. WOTC decided against this because "the cost would have been too high". I think this is/was a bad business decision - the good will and PR generated, and resulting sales, from this move would have wiped out the cost by a mile.
The next issue is environmental. Many players, some in my play group, are environment conscious and if buying a PDF saves trees, they want that option. WOTC is showing that they don't care about this issue at all. Again, bad business decision since these players REFUSE to by a hard copy, period. WOTC will now lose out on ALL of that money.
This entire issue can be boiled down to the Steve Jobs decision to remove the DRM from iTunes. This decision/argument from Steve Jobs can easily be applied to this issue concerning PDF's of the D&D books. Here's the basic rundown: There are four groups of consumers. One, is the people who will alway pay, regardless of the restrictions placed on the use by the DRM. You will ALWAYS have the income from this group.
The second group is the consumers who buy your iTunes (or PDF's) but strip out the DRM with piracy software because the DRM places unreasonable restrictions on how and where they enjoy the music (or PDF) they purchased - they don't like being told/restricted to where they can move copies around to their own personal devices, so they remove the DRM. In the situation of the WOTC PDF files you may or may not keep the income from this group - some will just buy the books, some will not buy them because they want a PDF - either way there will be income lost as some people stop buying.
There is the third group who refused to buy iTunes because the DRM made it a pain-in-the-ass to use, so they gave up on legal buying and went for pirated music. Make something difficult to use and people will walk away - ie, you lose all income from this group. This can be applied to the WOTC PDF's with the group of gamers who only buy PDF's and *refuse* to buy hard copies. This group of gamers now has no choice but to use pirated copies of PDF's. They *want* to pay you, they *want* to buy the PDF's, but they can't now. Now this group is *entirely* lost income.
The fourth group of consumers is the "pure pirate". They will never pay you. Ever. They were never going to pay you to begin with, and they aren't going to now. You never had the income from this group and never will.
Looking at that decision/argument from Steve Jobs concerning iTunes and the DRM, the same applies to the WOTC PDF's. You have income from people who will always pay. You never had the income from hardcore pirates and never will. In the other two groups, *you are losing income* that you could otherwise be taking in. This is a bad business decision by WOTC - it will *not* generate more income, all it will do is lose income.
.
.
.
I hope that WOTC starts selling/distributing PDF copies in some manner soon. I like the PDF files, I buy them. It saves lots of time during game when you can quickly search up information on your laptop - they make the game *easier* to play and enjoy. I sincerely hope WOTC will see past their knee-jerk reaction with a bad business decision and bring back the PDF books - it makes good long term business sense."
From another thread on the subject where I posted the following:
"I would love to see some kind of official word from WOTC on this issue.
I did not participate in the other threads. I will calmly explain my point of view, all of which is based on the business decisions.
WOTC could have come out with free copies of PDF files for each hard cover book purchased. A simple code printed on a sticker on the inside cover would have done the trick. This would necessitate the sealing of the books in shrink wrap. Answer the "preview before buying" problem by giving stores preview copies to keep in store and making a few pages or a chapter available for preview online. WOTC decided against this because "the cost would have been too high". I think this is/was a bad business decision - the good will and PR generated, and resulting sales, from this move would have wiped out the cost by a mile.
The next issue is environmental. Many players, some in my play group, are environment conscious and if buying a PDF saves trees, they want that option. WOTC is showing that they don't care about this issue at all. Again, bad business decision since these players REFUSE to by a hard copy, period. WOTC will now lose out on ALL of that money.
This entire issue can be boiled down to the Steve Jobs decision to remove the DRM from iTunes. This decision/argument from Steve Jobs can easily be applied to this issue concerning PDF's of the D&D books. Here's the basic rundown: There are four groups of consumers. One, is the people who will alway pay, regardless of the restrictions placed on the use by the DRM. You will ALWAYS have the income from this group.
The second group is the consumers who buy your iTunes (or PDF's) but strip out the DRM with piracy software because the DRM places unreasonable restrictions on how and where they enjoy the music (or PDF) they purchased - they don't like being told/restricted to where they can move copies around to their own personal devices, so they remove the DRM. In the situation of the WOTC PDF files you may or may not keep the income from this group - some will just buy the books, some will not buy them because they want a PDF - either way there will be income lost as some people stop buying.
There is the third group who refused to buy iTunes because the DRM made it a pain-in-the-ass to use, so they gave up on legal buying and went for pirated music. Make something difficult to use and people will walk away - ie, you lose all income from this group. This can be applied to the WOTC PDF's with the group of gamers who only buy PDF's and *refuse* to buy hard copies. This group of gamers now has no choice but to use pirated copies of PDF's. They *want* to pay you, they *want* to buy the PDF's, but they can't now. Now this group is *entirely* lost income.
The fourth group of consumers is the "pure pirate". They will never pay you. Ever. They were never going to pay you to begin with, and they aren't going to now. You never had the income from this group and never will.
Looking at that decision/argument from Steve Jobs concerning iTunes and the DRM, the same applies to the WOTC PDF's. You have income from people who will always pay. You never had the income from hardcore pirates and never will. In the other two groups, *you are losing income* that you could otherwise be taking in. This is a bad business decision by WOTC - it will *not* generate more income, all it will do is lose income.
.
.
.
I hope that WOTC starts selling/distributing PDF copies in some manner soon. I like the PDF files, I buy them. It saves lots of time during game when you can quickly search up information on your laptop - they make the game *easier* to play and enjoy. I sincerely hope WOTC will see past their knee-jerk reaction with a bad business decision and bring back the PDF books - it makes good long term business sense."
This is not a thread about the PDF thing, or shouldn't be. They always release a free tutorial module. Every edition they've done something similar. This is no different.
There are countless threads about the dumb PDF thing. Waaaaay too many hijacked threads, too.
What a company decides to sell (or not) is that company's business.
What you choose to spend your money on (or not) is your business.
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions. Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that. Having worked at Wizards for 12 years now, I know for a fact that Wizards employees care deeply about the company, the games Wizards produces, and our entire community of gamers (even the sometimes grouchy ones!). And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions.
So when does someone at WotC admit that their decision with the PDFs is... less than informed, judging by the successful examples of the RIAA and similar group's attempts to restrict digital content?
I'll leave off commenting on the calculated part, beyond saying I suspect someone's calculator needs new batteries.
judging by the successful examples of the RIAA and similar group's attempts to restrict digital content?
Your comparison falls short. The music industry is almost entirely digital by default. CDs more than vinyl, and catering explicitly to portable digital media. If they stop selling digitally, they sink. The "solution" attempted by the recording industry ignores the primary media needs.
WotC has digital distribution as a very small portion of its total sales. Its primary source is still print media. And its digital endeavor is a subscription based portal-access site. It doesn't NEED digital sales to power its revenues. STOPPING digital (PDF) sales does not cut into its primary media need.
WotC has digital distribution as a very small portion of its total sales. Its primary source is still print media. And its digital endeavor is a subscription based portal-access site. It doesn't NEED digital sales to power its revenues. STOPPING digital (PDF) sales does not cut into its primary media need.
The problem is that stopping digital PDF sales only slows down the availability of digital copies for a short period. As soon as one person gets around to scanning, OCRing, and distributing (I'll politely assume they've stopped the pre-printing leaks of digital copies from the publishers or within their own company...) it's out there.
What it has done is cost them their revenue from the people willing to pay them for the digital format. Maybe it's not a large percentage compared to their print sales, but given the economic climate I find it hard to see good sense in telling the people who actually want to pay them money that they won't take it.
I know it's entirely their right to do so, but it still seems a foolish reaction to me. I was buying everything they put out in PDF. Now I'm not. My budget is happier, but their bottom line is worse off, because I was buying almost exclusively in PDF and have no intention of purchasing the majority of their physical books.
However, as to the OP, using the movie example, let me fix it as it's slightly askew.
This is more like going to see a movie and then as you leave, they're handing the director's cut on Blue-ray out to people in the lobby for free. Sure they can do what they want... it just feels a little screwy.
What it has done is cost them their revenue from the people willing to pay them for the digital format. Maybe it's not a large percentage compared to their print sales, but given the economic climate I find it hard to see good sense in telling the people who actually want to pay them money that they won't take it.
The question WotC asked themselves is probably something like this:
- Is the money that we are no longer getting via the number of pdfs we are no longer selling comparable to the amount of money we are saving by no longer having to prepare things for sale as pdfs?
Obviously, based on the info that WotC has, they feel that it either is, is is close enough that the difference is insignificant and worth losing in order to move to their new digital distribution system. (Whatever form that will take.)
This is more like going to see a movie and thenas you leaveabout a year later, they're handing the director's cut on Blue-ray out to people in the lobby for free. Sure they can do what they want... it just feels a little screwy.
I fixed your example to make it a bit more accurate.
The question WotC asked themselves is probably something like this:
- Is the money that we are no longer getting via the number of pdfs we are no longer selling comparable to the amount of money we are saving by no longer having to prepare things for sale as pdfs?
Obviously, based on the info that WotC has, they feel that it either is, is is close enough that the difference is insignificant and worth losing in order to move to their new digital distribution system. (Whatever form that will take.)
If that's the case, I've got to wonder about either what wages they're paying per hour, or how bad the sales actually were. They provide a PDF format document to the printers, so all they really need to do is have someone add bookmarks to that for sale. Doing that manually shouldn't be one person working more than a couple of hours to maybe a morning or afternoon per book at the outside, based on all the addition of bookmarks I've done to old TSR 1st and 2nd edition PDFs. (Legally purchased.) Once the wages for that are paid, it's pure gravy.
It also doesn't explain why they pulled the older edition material from sale, but that's a whole 'nother argument.
Far too soon for any corporate statisticians to draw meaningful data.
Best thing we can do is keep letting WotC know that we want PDF products back, please.
It's barely been a month since the decision to stop selling PDFs, right?
Far too soon for any corporate statisticians to draw meaningful data.
Best thing we can do is keep letting WotC know that we want PDF products back, please.
One thing we can do is look at the completion rates of torrent trackers for Arcane Power, PHB2 and any other D&D book. This move has done nothing to reduce the number of pirated copies of D&D books out there. Arcane power has massive completion numbers and an OCR scanned searchable PDF is already all over the net.
I'm the guy responsible for the revisions to the free PDF version of Keep on the Shadowfell, so I'm glad to hear people are digging it. Here's my point-of-view on this particular argument:
What a company decides to sell (or not) is that company's business.
What you choose to spend your money on (or not) is your business.
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions. Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that. Having worked at Wizards for 12 years now, I know for a fact that Wizards employees care deeply about the company, the games Wizards produces, and our entire community of gamers (even the sometimes grouchy ones!). And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
I bought the module. I will go download this too if it has the errata? Is there a specific list of the errata?
And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
Pure win.
I fixed your example to make it a bit more accurate.
Fair enough.
I'm the guy responsible for the revisions to the free PDF version of Keep on the Shadowfell, so I'm glad to hear people are digging it. Here's my point-of-view on this particular argument:
What a company decides to sell (or not) is that company's business.
What you choose to spend your money on (or not) is your business.
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions. Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that. Having worked at Wizards for 12 years now, I know for a fact that Wizards employees care deeply about the company, the games Wizards produces, and our entire community of gamers (even the sometimes grouchy ones!). And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
What you don't seem to get is that *less* people will be buying your stuff, not more. But hey, it is certainly the right of any company to have a knee-jerk reaction, stick their collective heads in the sand, ignore the truth, and leave snarky replies on message boards.
If WOTC is such a great company with all that money is it that why no one at WOTC can seem make a decent website for the RPGA and keep it up to date? So, no money for a full time web developer capable of keeping websites up to date and solving all your DB issues, but plenty of money floating around that allows Creative Managers enough time to snark on message boards.
Wise choice of spending your money there WOTC. Wise choice indeed.
BTW, in case it hasn't been said already, here's is the snarky short reply for you: Congratulations on making a business decision that is *guaranteed* to *lose* money not bring in more. Epic. Fail. Congrats.
What you don't seem to get is that *less* people will be buying your stuff, not more. But hey, it is certainly the right of any company to have a knee-jerk reaction, stick their collective heads in the sand, ignore the truth, and leave snarky replies on message boards.
If WOTC is such a great company with all that money is it that why no one at WOTC can seem make a decent website for the RPGA and keep it up to date? So, no money for a full time web developer capable of keeping websites up to date and solving all your DB issues, but plenty of money floating around that allows Creative Managers enough time to snark on message boards.
Wise choice of spending your money there WOTC. Wise choice indeed.
BTW, in case it hasn't been said already, here's is the snarky short reply for you: Congratulations on making a business decision that is *guaranteed* to *lose* money not bring in more. Epic. Fail. Congrats.
I don't think he was trying to be snarky. I also believe him when he says that the employees care about the gaming community.
Of course I still don't agree with WotC's decision, I think it was a horribly miscalculated decision, and my faith in the employees does not extend to the upper management or Hasbro. I also don't really expect a WotC employee to speak out against the company's decision on these boards, and so I take his comments with a grain of salt.
That said, we hear very little from WotC on these boards, so when one of the employees addresses our concerns, lets please not bite their heads off.
Epic. Fail. Congrats.
Come on. Your post didn't suck bad enough to qualify as "Epic. Fail." Especially not so much as to use the hyperbolically. emphasizing. periods. It was just your normal sucky post with the normal benefit-of-anonymity, upset-customer comments about corporate business decisions delivered with just enough of an air-of-superiority haughtiness that the actual content need not be examined closely enough to catch the business-management-ignorance that usually accompanies disgruntled-customer message board comments.
I'm the guy responsible for the revisions to the free PDF version of Keep on the Shadowfell, so I'm glad to hear people are digging it. Here's my point-of-view on this particular argument:
What a company decides to sell (or not) is that company's business.
What you choose to spend your money on (or not) is your business.
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions. Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that. Having worked at Wizards for 12 years now, I know for a fact that Wizards employees care deeply about the company, the games Wizards produces, and our entire community of gamers (even the sometimes grouchy ones!). And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
I would choose to buy dungeons and dragons pdfs. But that choice isn't (legally) on the table anymore.
If you're ok with needlessly losing customers, then your calculated business decisions clearly aren't in line with making a profit.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to complain about the game that I love and have played for 22 years.
And I'm pretty sure we are allowed to complain about your complaint. After all I have been playing longer
WotC knew that the decision to stop selling pdfs would anger people, and I am reasonably certain that they knew that by no longer selling them, they wouldn't be getting the income from selling them.
In the long term, in purchasing Keep on the Shadowfell a year ago you didn't so much pay for the product itself... you paid for the privilege of using that product before many other people (who chose not to pay for it at the time) could. From a certain point of view, you paid for a year's worth of preview. Many would say that's worth the price you paid.
Not to mention, by purchasing Keep on the Shadowfell when you did, you played an active part in supporting WotC's 4e D&D franchise... such to the extent that they felt comfortable enough to now release Keep on the Shadowfell as free for all to enjoy. If you (and others like you) had not supported the game when you did, this free release may well have never happened.
So I guess what I'm really saying is: "Thanks!" Were it not for you (and others like you who paid when you did) WotC may not be in a proper fiscal state to afford to release it for free at all. The D&D community thanks you for your selfless act of purchasing when you did, and we can only hope there are more folks out there like you to ensure that future products are later released for free as well.
PinkRose, you rock! :D
[INDENT]My point was the selling of the PDF, then the giving away of the PDF, when less then a month ago, they stopped selling all the other PDFs because people were getting them for free. [/INDENT]
How is there any link here? Just because it is POSSIBLE to make PDFs it does not follow that Wizards SHOULD offer them for sale.
Firstly, the starter rules and H1 were basically on sale for a year I'm guessing so what is the big deal about them deciding to give them away now? They've probably recouped development costs on that product and can now offer it for free as a loss leader. Companies do this kind of thing all the time.
The timing in relation to the other PDFs is irrelevant so how you can say they are basically taunting you is beyond understanding. Do you think the universe revolves around you? Do you get ticked off if one day you buy a Big Mac meal and a sundae at McDonald's and the next day they start a promo where the sundae is free with the meal? It's a new day. DEAL WITH IT.
The reason for stopping the other PDFs was that people were getting them for free when Wizards didn't want them too. The reason for giving out the free stuff is that Wizards DID want them to have that - THAT ONE THING.
Offering starter rules and an adventure is a tiny sliver of the product line (and remember there is a lot more product in the pipeline). By giving out this tiny sliver it entices new customers but doesn't expose the whole product line to piracy.
Giving out all the books as PDFs does give you a huge exposure to being ripped off. You totally don't seem to be getting this difference: A sliver of product line in PDF that can be copied VS the whole product line as PDF and the risk of wholesale piracy.
Now many of these music analogies are stupid. One person said the PDFs won't be as good. Hey, I've SEEN an illegally downloaded PDF of one of the core 4e books and it was perfect quality, searchable, had the whole contents bookmarked, everything. That's awfully dangerous for Wizards to have floating around.
Others have said that they are missing out on potential sales to some people who ONLY want to buy digital. I would argue those people are not that common because in the main most people consider physical books to be more convenient than digital ones, especially large format ones.
Music is MUCH more convenient in digital form. With music there is no more carrying around CDs, no changing CDs and no CDs getting scratched. You can listen to them using a tiny device you can clip to your clothes, or even using a device like a phone that you were already going to carry.
Yes books are heavy but unlike music you don't really need to have your D&D books with you all the time. Yes books get damaged but most D&D books are nice, high quality, hard cover ones and will last a long time. It's hard to make them unreadable.
I would argue that reading them is NOT more convenient in digital form. I can read a PDF on my iPhone but would I want to read the Dungeon Masters Guide on my iPhone? The screen is too small. You really need a netbook at least and even then if you zoom to make the text readable you will only have half a page on screen. Laptops with large screens and desktops with large screens are OK. But you still probably won't have two pages side by side, you probably still need to scroll on a page and scroll from one page to the next.
So if you want to argue PDFs are convenient for mobility, well, you are going to be carrying a bulky item just to read them, unlike music, and most people would still say that it's more convenient to read a physical book. It's just easier to hold the book, flip back and forth between pages and you get to know where most things are anyway. You can also refer to it whilst other things are on your screen. Books are great.
PDFs do have some clear benefits, otherwise people wouldn't be whinging. Like I said above, if you were going to carry your laptop around anyway it saves you carrying books. You can search in them and jump to bookmarks, although it is not that hard to find a page and flip around in a physical book. But you can do some things with a digital format that you can't do as well with the physical book. You can print pages and especially MAPS. That is great. Even just for printing maps it would be great to have PDFs.
So, let me summarize so far and bottom line it.
1. Wizards pulled PDFs to stop WHOLESALE piracy of the product line.
2. They offered a new pair of PDFs but these were a tiny sliver of the product line and don't expose the whole product line to piracy whilst enticing new customers.
3. Books are arguably more convenient but PDFs are have some great benefits such as map printing.
It boils down to this: Some people want the PDFs for a few reasons of convenience or environmental concerns. Wizards don't want the whole line available as PDF because of piracy.
Which concern should take priority? I argue that since all the work and all the risk is on Wizards of the Coast and it is their product they should be able to decide to withdraw the PDFs without people whining about it like it's a major inconvenience to them when it is really a minor inconvenience.
With that in mind I want to say CHILL OUT and don't succumb to the DISEASE OF PERFECTION.
What do I mean?
Well 30 years ago there were no digital versions and people were not complaining that they couldn't get D&D in a PDF. Now, just because they are available certain people whine and moan that they can't get them. Take a chill pill.
Why do I call it the disease of perfection? It's because there is a huge problem with modern society of people wanting perfection and getting angry and/or depressed when they can't have it. We have a horrible culture of voyeurism with celebrities, people get plastic surgery because they feel they are worthless with even minor imperfections, people go into stupid debt to have clothes and cars and houses that are cooler instead of settling for more average possessions, and there is WHOLESALE theft of anything people can steal, like music, to leave money for other things.
Bigger and more is all that matters and virtues, for many, have gone out the window. People want the best of everything and whinge and complain about minor things as if it is the end of the world. We've all seen trolls on message boards making totally ridiculous complaints. (I'm trying to keep this balanced and urging you all take a balanced view.)
Lets look at music. I buy music. I don't steal ANY music because the artists don't get any money. I don't buy as much as I would like too though, and my friends laugh and tell me I'm stupid for buying any of it. The same goes with software. I buy Windows. My friends all pirate it. They are simply pirating it because they want to save the money that those things would cost them and put it towards other items in their pursuit of perfection. They want as much stuff as they can get but don't want to pay for it. This has led to a culture of wholesale theft. And by wholesale I mean it in the literal sense. Many of my friends now own thousands of albums but the artists never got a cent from my friends.
How many people illegally download movies now and don't buy any DVDs? How are studios going to make money and continue to finance films? Sure many cover their production at the box office but many don't and rely on DVD sales and rentals. Even if they did cover costs who are pirates to decide how much profit should be made on a film? If they put years of effort into making it why shouldn't they be able to make a big profit?
Most people only consider the people at the top of the food chain when it comes to paydays, the studio execs, the big stars, the directors, producers and writers. What about the 2nd string movie catering business that went out of business because the studios cut back on the number of films they were making? Or the smaller production company that could no longer get financing for a more arty project. It tends to be the fringe people that suffer, the little people.
And speaking of fringe, D&D is a hobby and not exactly main stream so Wizards have more exposure to risk than many other book companies. And if people can get ALL THE RPG THEY CAN EAT for free from pirated D&D PDFs where does that leave the rest of the industry when people put that money to clothes and cars and food and houses. It's not like they are going to put that money into a second RPG. They have what they need. And they now laugh at the idea of paying for an RPG book
Piracy is a real problem!
It was revealed last week that at peak playing times over 80% of people playing the computer game Demigod online were using pirated copies. 80%! How much revenue have the developers lost? How many game development houses go out of business each year with dozens or even hundreds of people losing jobs. It's awful. And few people spare a thought for the little guy who was creating textures for the factory walls in mission 6. Even big companies are seriously questioning whether to keep making games for the PC market because of piracy and most games now have to be multi-platform. As a result, some PC genres are dying because they don't work well on consoles and many riskier projects are being abandoned with studios shutting down left and right.
So, final thoughts.
A lot of people put a lot of work into D&D products. They spend dozens of man years developing a new product line, testing mechanics, painting hundreds of pieces of artwork, writing thousands of pages of histories, rules, power descriptions, monster stats, doing page layout for dozens of books, attending conventions and exhibitions (these are expensive), organizing advertising and financing and HR and so much more. They need to cover the cost of all that in a time where many people want everything for nothing and laugh at the notion of paying for something they can download for free. These people often think only about the cost of manufacturing - how much the paper, printing, binding, packing and shipping costs - and not the costs of the dozens of man years of creative R&D before that.
So, ending here, consider the options:
A few people inconvenienced by not being able to print maps and stuff and having to carry some books along with their laptop.
VS
A company risking bankruptcy due to wholesale piracy.
So CHILL OUT, consider the bigger picture outside your little world and don't succumb to the DISEASE OF PERFECTION. Retain virtues, consider the effort that goes into creating a product. Think about all the little guys who lose jobs due to piracy, don't steal and stop whinging over the minor inconvenience of no PDFs.
I'm the guy responsible for the revisions to the free PDF version of Keep on the Shadowfell, so I'm glad to hear people are digging it. Here's my point-of-view on this particular argument:
Admittedly I have not seen the revisions to KotS I am concerned as to why you felt one of the worst adventures WotC has ever produced was the best way to show of the new system? I'm not trying to be mean, but KotS is the quintessential poster child for most the 4e's "desponants" complaints. It really brings home 4e's lack of a skill system, flat and combat focused nature. It even demonstrates that the new encounter system is just as flanky as 3es. Not to mention the fact that the prestart characters are utter garbage.
What a company decides to sell (or not) is that company's business.
Companies do have certian legal responciblities to their share holders. I would hope that WotC keeps them in mind when they make "informed and carefully caluclated business dicsions" which willresult in the total loss of a revenue stream.
What you choose to spend your money on (or not) is your business.
This is certianly true. But I wonder why WotC has choosen to encourage me, and others who prefer PDFs over printed books, to either spend my money with a competer or commit certian illegal acts?
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions.
Firstly I hardly think they are a minority, but I do not have WotCs market research at my disposal so I could be wrong. I just want to make sure we're clear on this: Wizards of the coast made an "informed and carefully calculated business decision" to terminate a revenue stream with very little over head, and in so doing turn over 100% distirbution of their books in digital form (PDFs) to data pirates. Do I have that right? So, uhmm about those responciblities to your (the collective your as WotC) shareholders....
Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that.
Wow, just wow. I mean WotC often pisses on their customer base with wanton disregard for them. But I have never seen an actual employee for the company - who is representing them - so explicitly spell out that you just don't care about your customers. Wow is really all I can say.
Having worked at Wizards for 12 years now, I know for a fact that Wizards employees care deeply about the company, the games Wizards produces, and our entire community of gamers (even the sometimes grouchy ones!).
Your; (the collective your again)informed and carefully calculated business decisions, policies, correspondents, products, quality of your products, broken promises, and general attitude say otherwise.
And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
You say you care, and then make an back handed comment like this. This sir was uncalled for and not cool. It's amazing you're (the colletcive you) are still in business at all.
I'm the guy responsible for the revisions to the free PDF version of Keep on the Shadowfell, so I'm glad to hear people are digging it. Here's my point-of-view on this particular argument:
What a company decides to sell (or not) is that company's business.
What you choose to spend your money on (or not) is your business.
Contrary to what a small minority of despondent posters think, Wizards makes informed and carefully calculated business decisions. Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that. Having worked at Wizards for 12 years now, I know for a fact that Wizards employees care deeply about the company, the games Wizards produces, and our entire community of gamers (even the sometimes grouchy ones!). And driving around in hot red Ferraris. We like that most of all. So thanks for buying our stuff.
You are beyond awesome.
Wow, just wow. I mean WotC often pisses on their customer base with wanton disregard for them. But I have never seen an actual employee for the company - who is representing them - so explicitly spell out that you just don't care about your customers. Wow is really all I can say.
That is not "wanton disregard". It is knowledge and acceptance that you cannot please all the people all the time.
Sometimes, business decisions **** customers off. It is a fact of business.
That is not "wanton disregard". It is knowledge and acceptance that you cannot please all the people all the time.
Sometimes, business decisions **** customers off. It is a fact of business.
This. Just because WotC realized that it's impossible to please everyone (see the Aesop quote in somebody's signature on these boards, I don't recall who.) This concept is Older Than Dirt, and WotC acknowledges that.
In the end we don't know what marketing research, etc, went into this decision and we won't. It may have been a smart business decision, it may not have, we can't say for sure. We can only guess, but in my experience companies that have survived as long as WotC has, don't make monumentally bad moves (usually.)
Also, as another poster pointed out, we don't see a lot of the official WotC staff in here lately guys, and a good part of that may be because when they do show up they get a zillion and one posts about how bad their service is, and how WotC is messing up. Lets not shoot the messengers, and let's try to make this board a friendly place for everyone. Remember, there are no Evil Corporations. (Actually, IMO there are 2-3, but I don't want to go into that in this thread. If anyone wants to talk about that, they'd have to PM me. :P )
One quick addendum: As I've stated before, I'm shocked and saddened at the loss of the PDF sales. Most of my 4e books that I've bought are in PDF format due to space concerns. Plus I take my laptop to games, and it's really convenient to carry that instead of who knows how much weight in books since I have a bad back. Was I upset by the WotC decision, of course. But I processed it, and went back to playing the game I love and have been playing since I was 11. Stuff happens, you move on.
So all I'm saying, really, is: Can we all just go back to gaming instead of complaining? Please? I'll give you all cookies?
Which concern should take priority? I argue that since all the work and all the risk is on Wizards of the Coast and it is their product they should be able to decide to withdraw the PDFs without people whining about it like it's a major inconvenience to them when it is really a minor inconvenience.
So CHILL OUT, consider the bigger picture outside your little world and don't succumb to the DISEASE OF PERFECTION. Retain virtues, consider the effort that goes into creating a product. Think about all the little guys who lose jobs due to piracy, don't steal and stop whinging over the minor inconvenience of no PDFs.
Yes it is their product and yes they have every right to pull it. That said, I am a paying customer, and as such, I have every right to whine about their business practices, and when they **** me off enough, I have the right to cease being a paying customer, and then I will still continue to whine, mainly because I can.
Also, keep in mind that everyone plays differently. Right now, no pdfs would be a minor inconvenience to me. If I were in Iraq or Afghanistan and couldn't get hardcopies of the books, it would be a much greater inconvenience to me. If I'm someone like Bombtek (I hate to keep throwing his name out there, but while I'm sure there might be others in his boat, he's the only one I know of), then not having pdfs is a very serious inconvenience, as he is blind and cannot read the hard copies.
And as for gamers having used books for years without pdfs, mankind survived for millennia without modern medicine, so if we shut down all the hospitals, no one should complain, right? Yes, that's a very extreme analogy, but so is your implication that pirated pdfs will drive WotC to bankruptcy.
I'm not saying you didn't have any valid points, but I dislike the idea that we should blindly accept everything WotC does, or that we are somehow wrong for speaking out against them. If we disagree with their business decision, we have every right to voice our opinions.
so is your implication that pirated pdfs will drive WotC to bankruptcy.
I'm not saying you didn't have any valid points, but I dislike the idea that we should blindly accept everything WotC does, or that we are somehow wrong for speaking out against them. If we disagree with their business decision, we have every right to voice our opinions.
My point is too many people deal in black and whites. Piracy of PDFs might not drive them to bankruptcy but it doesn't have to be so extremely bad to still be bad. They might not go bankrupt but still stop making products. Or lay off people and make lower quality products. Or just make fewer products.
People think either "everything will be cool" or "it's the end of the world". But it could be anywhere in between. I'm saying the pressure of piracy will push it TOWARDS the bankruptcy scale and a lot of people in similar hobby and entertainment industries such as music and video games do suffer greatly from piracy.
And I'm not saying blindly accept anything. I'm saying think of the bigger picture. Yes voice your opinions, that awesome - don't shut up. But some people whinge too much and don't accept that WotC have ANY legitimate reason for pulling the PDF sales. And they get on message boards and troll about it.
So don't troll which is complaining without being balanced and fair. Instead, voice opinions after fair and balanced consideration of the issues affecting all parties.
Btw I don't think you personally are trolling at all. But do you think whine is the right term to adopt for your own actions? Isn't that too negative a term?
My point is too many people deal in black and whites. Piracy of PDFs might not drive them to bankruptcy but it doesn't have to be so extremely bad to still be bad. They might not go bankrupt but still stop making products. Or lay off people and make lower quality products. Or just make fewer products.
People think either "everything will be cool" or "it's the end of the world". But it could be anywhere in between. I'm saying the pressure of piracy will push it TOWARDS the bankruptcy scale and a lot of people in similar hobby and entertainment industries such as music and video games do suffer greatly from piracy.
And I'm not saying blindly accept anything. I'm saying think of the bigger picture. Yes voice your opinions, that awesome - don't shut up. But some people whinge too much and don't accept that WotC have ANY legitimate reason for pulling the PDF sales. And they get on message boards and troll about it.
So don't troll which is complaining without being balanced and fair. Instead, voice opinions after fair and balanced consideration of the issues affecting all parties.
Btw I don't think you personally are trolling at all. But do you think whine is the right term to adopt for your own actions? Isn't that too negative a term?
Fair enough, I will certainly admit that most people (on a lot of issues in fact, not just this) will take to extremes without considering the middle ground. In fact thats what I assumed you were doing in your earlier statement, although it seems that I was wrong in that respect.
And yes, whine is a negative term (I use it because while I really disagree with WotC's decision, it actually has almost no direct impact on me), but as a general rule I try not to take it too personally when I bash myself
That is not "wanton disregard". It is knowledge and acceptance that you cannot please all the people all the time.
Sometimes, business decisions **** customers off. It is a fact of business.
There is a difference between a company acknowledging that they can not please everyone all of time, and what Chris said. The message that came across was that WotC knows that the moves it makes will not only loose them costumers, but anger people. And they are ok with that. Basically everyone who disagrees with what they are doing is write off - and they don't care. And that is the worst costumer I can think off. It was also a major contributing factor to TSR's failings in the late 80s. Which given WotC's attitude towards it customers and the hobby, failing, may just be the best thing for D&D.
Any move they make will anger people. Nerds love to get angry over nothing and ALL of WotC's customers are nerds. Do the math.
But not every move angers so many people.
There is a difference between a company acknowledging that they can not please everyone all of time, and what Chris said. The message that came across was that WotC knows that the moves it makes will not only loose them costumers, but anger people. And they are ok with that. Basically everyone who disagrees with what they are doing is write off - and they don't care.
Emphasis mine.
No, please don't put words in his mouth. That's not the message at all. THAT is your interpretation of it. Maybe it's how you hear him say it in your head, I don't know. But for me, the tone of what he said doesn't sound like that. What you've said is an exaggeration, at best.
Unfortunately, we can't please everyone — and, as it happens, we're OK with that.
He just said WotC is okay with not pleasing everybody. Because, let's face it: you can't please everybody. And moping around because you can't please everybody doesn't really help now, does it?
You are reacting to a complete exaggeration (made by you).
But not every move angers so many people.
"so many" What is "so many"? Is so many "a dozen"? Is so many "thousands"? How do you know? How do you *prove* it?
Being part of a vocal group does not make that group the majority. It just makes the group vocal.
Does anyone have statistics of the actual per-capita of *paying* wotc customers who are in the following categories:
1) So ticked about the no pdf decision they'll never spend money on WotC again unless WotC brings back PDFs
2) Are mad about it but will still keep buying
3) Aren't mad about it, but would like PDFs back
4) Don't care
and
5) Are glad the PDFs are gone?
Cause #1 is always going to be the vocal group, but like I said, being vocal doesn't make one the majority. It may not even make the group statistically significant.