Thread closing vs VCL vs Off-topic - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Thread closing vs VCL vs Off-topic

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
darth_singe
Jan 06, 2009 18:31:49 i've been away from this forum for a while.

i come back to find new beings called VCL'S.

apparently the moment a thread gets off-topic they request it be closed.

from what i have seen the thread is usually closed very quickly at that point.

i think that is too much power in one person's hands, and when has a thread ever truly stayed on topic?

is the bandwidth the real issue here?

i used to be a member of an old diablo 2 forum, and they were so worried about bandwidth, that if you posted a question, and then later wanted to post again, you had to edit your original post, which made for some funny up and down scrollring trying to follow the conversation.

my point though is this: this power of the VCL takes away from people's freedoms, and anything that takes personal freedoms away cannot be good.

now i have to be afraid of what i say in a thread because chances are the thread will be closed.

and fear is the mindkiller

------------
Posted by a 29 year old gaming veteran of 16 years, father of 3 children, with a wife and a mortgage and a minivan and an electric bill who has a low paying job and barely scrapes enough money for these bills and yet somehow manages to keep a weekly d&d game going.
#2
exposed_wires
Jan 06, 2009 18:43:20 It's only when stupid threads go off topic, or good threads go off to stupid topics. The VLCs do a decent job of what they do. They get threads that are toxic to the environment here removed.

This topic is going to get closed too. Either because it belongs elsewhere or because you're only using what you saw today as the basis for huge accusation.
#3
celloshane
Jan 06, 2009 18:45:18 You're misunderstanding what VCL's actually do. Volunteer Community Leads are here to help keep the forums flowing in an organized fashion. Most of their responsibilities have to do with making sure threads are posted in the proper forums, and arranging to move threads that aren't. You'll also see them stepping in and reminding users to follow the rules set forth in the CoC, so that the ORCs (formerly Wizo's) don't have to moderate. You'll definately see VCL's requesting that certain threads be closed on occasion, but I've never seen any abuse of that authority. Often, the thread in question is discussing a banned topic or has devolved into a flamewar. Both of those are violations of the CoC and it's part of the VCL's duty to enforce it. If you think the VCL's are inhibiting your freedom of speech, chances are you're trying to discuss a banned topic. There are other threads around that go into further detail about the VCL job description, but I'm not completely sure where those are located.
#4
tusz
Jan 06, 2009 18:49:09 From what I understand, the VCLs are here to act as a proactive warning system for the ORCs. A VCL sees a problem thread (edition war, etc), notifies the mods, and they decide to shut it down (or not).

As for your worry about off-topic posts being shut down immediately, it's not as bad of a problem as you think. There are several threads still active on this specific forum that been off-topic for the majority of there dozen-plus pages. Haven't been shut down, because the new topic is relevant to the game and, in several cases, more interesting than the original. The problem comes when people tread into totally non-D&D related topics, or ones that tend to start flame wars (religion, politics, baked goods).

As for your fear that VCLs take away personal freedom, they don't. They don't do anything that ORCs didn't already do, they don't shut down non-problematic posts, and so on. They're more or less like the Community Watch on the boards. They see someone violating the ~~law~~ CoC, they notify the ~~police~~ ORCs, who then break up the problem and ~~arrest~~ ban the people responsible, if necessary.

Also, this post may have been better suited to the Community Business forum.
#5
Rustmonster
Jan 06, 2009 18:57:54
now i have to be afraid of what i say in a thread because chances are the thread will be closed.

If you arn't an ass, and you don't break the CoC, you'll be fine. The VCLs are not evil people with "too much power" out to take away your precious freedom. As far as I know, they have hardly any power at all. I think they just try harder to keep the forums clean and have a fancy title.
#6
Escef
Jan 06, 2009 19:55:28
i think that is too much power in one person's hands,...

Wow, then what do you think of the moderators? Or of anyone who hits the "Report Post" button? Do they have too much power?

You over-react. Greatly.
#7
mudbunny
Jan 06, 2009 21:47:45 Check out my signature to see the duties, responsibilities and powers a VCL has. ORCs are the old WizOs, with a name change. There are other interesting threads that are usesful to see what a VCL can and cannot do in the forum here.

VCLs are responsible for ensuring that the discussion that takes place in the forums remains on topic for the forum. If a post is in the wrong area, we move it to the right area. If a thread looks like it is going off topic, we will post warnings in the thread to get people to try to get it back on topic. If the thread is clearly off topic, or is so far off topic that there is no chance of it getting back on topic, then we can request that the thread be closed.

We do not have the powers to do so ourselves. What we do is we make a rquest to the ORCs, asking them to close it. The request is made in the forum here.

If you have an issue with the moderation here, or the way VCLs act, the http://www.wizards.com/customerservice site is the way to go, specifically, this entry on the Knowledge Base there: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1208. Any reports of moderation issues or problems with VCLs sent through that page get read and reviewed by those in charge of the ORCs and VCLs, so they do see what you say.

Note that you don't have to make a separate account, the login for the page is unified with the boards.

Also, I have requested that this thread be moved up to the Community Business forum.
#8
calronmoonflower
Jan 08, 2009 1:24:43 Here's the list of topics that can get a thread locked.

Religion
Politics
Edition Wars

All three have the potential to generate a huge amount flames.
Threads derailed to these topics are the ones that are usually locked at VCL request.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darth_singe Jan 06, 2009 18:31:49	i've been away from this forum for a while. i come back to find new beings called VCL'S. apparently the moment a thread gets off-topic they request it be closed. from what i have seen the thread is usually closed very quickly at that point. i think that is too much power in one person's hands, and when has a thread ever truly stayed on topic? is the bandwidth the real issue here? i used to be a member of an old diablo 2 forum, and they were so worried about bandwidth, that if you posted a question, and then later wanted to post again, you had to edit your original post, which made for some funny up and down scrollring trying to follow the conversation. my point though is this: this power of the VCL takes away from people's freedoms, and anything that takes personal freedoms away cannot be good. now i have to be afraid of what i say in a thread because chances are the thread will be closed. and fear is the mindkiller ------------ Posted by a 29 year old gaming veteran of 16 years, father of 3 children, with a wife and a mortgage and a minivan and an electric bill who has a low paying job and barely scrapes enough money for these bills and yet somehow manages to keep a weekly d&d game going.
#2 exposed_wires Jan 06, 2009 18:43:20	It's only when stupid threads go off topic, or good threads go off to stupid topics. The VLCs do a decent job of what they do. They get threads that are toxic to the environment here removed. This topic is going to get closed too. Either because it belongs elsewhere or because you're only using what you saw today as the basis for huge accusation.
#3 celloshane Jan 06, 2009 18:45:18	You're misunderstanding what VCL's actually do. Volunteer Community Leads are here to help keep the forums flowing in an organized fashion. Most of their responsibilities have to do with making sure threads are posted in the proper forums, and arranging to move threads that aren't. You'll also see them stepping in and reminding users to follow the rules set forth in the CoC, so that the ORCs (formerly Wizo's) don't have to moderate. You'll definately see VCL's requesting that certain threads be closed on occasion, but I've never seen any abuse of that authority. Often, the thread in question is discussing a banned topic or has devolved into a flamewar. Both of those are violations of the CoC and it's part of the VCL's duty to enforce it. If you think the VCL's are inhibiting your freedom of speech, chances are you're trying to discuss a banned topic. There are other threads around that go into further detail about the VCL job description, but I'm not completely sure where those are located.
#4 tusz Jan 06, 2009 18:49:09	From what I understand, the VCLs are here to act as a proactive warning system for the ORCs. A VCL sees a problem thread (edition war, etc), notifies the mods, and they decide to shut it down (or not). As for your worry about off-topic posts being shut down immediately, it's not as bad of a problem as you think. There are several threads still active on this specific forum that been off-topic for the majority of there dozen-plus pages. Haven't been shut down, because the new topic is relevant to the game and, in several cases, more interesting than the original. The problem comes when people tread into totally non-D&D related topics, or ones that tend to start flame wars (religion, politics, baked goods). As for your fear that VCLs take away personal freedom, they don't. They don't do anything that ORCs didn't already do, they don't shut down non-problematic posts, and so on. They're more or less like the Community Watch on the boards. They see someone violating the ~~law~~ CoC, they notify the ~~police~~ ORCs, who then break up the problem and ~~arrest~~ ban the people responsible, if necessary. Also, this post may have been better suited to the Community Business forum.
#5 Rustmonster Jan 06, 2009 18:57:54	now i have to be afraid of what i say in a thread because chances are the thread will be closed. If you arn't an ass, and you don't break the CoC, you'll be fine. The VCLs are not evil people with "too much power" out to take away your precious freedom. As far as I know, they have hardly any power at all. I think they just try harder to keep the forums clean and have a fancy title.
#6 Escef Jan 06, 2009 19:55:28	i think that is too much power in one person's hands,... Wow, then what do you think of the moderators? Or of anyone who hits the "Report Post" button? Do they have too much power? You over-react. Greatly.
#7 mudbunny Jan 06, 2009 21:47:45	Check out my signature to see the duties, responsibilities and powers a VCL has. ORCs are the old WizOs, with a name change. There are other interesting threads that are usesful to see what a VCL can and cannot do in the forum here. VCLs are responsible for ensuring that the discussion that takes place in the forums remains on topic for the forum. If a post is in the wrong area, we move it to the right area. If a thread looks like it is going off topic, we will post warnings in the thread to get people to try to get it back on topic. If the thread is clearly off topic, or is so far off topic that there is no chance of it getting back on topic, then we can request that the thread be closed. We do not have the powers to do so ourselves. What we do is we make a rquest to the ORCs, asking them to close it. The request is made in the forum here. If you have an issue with the moderation here, or the way VCLs act, the http://www.wizards.com/customerservice site is the way to go, specifically, this entry on the Knowledge Base there: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1208. Any reports of moderation issues or problems with VCLs sent through that page get read and reviewed by those in charge of the ORCs and VCLs, so they do see what you say. Note that you don't have to make a separate account, the login for the page is unified with the boards. Also, I have requested that this thread be moved up to the Community Business forum.
#8 calronmoonflower Jan 08, 2009 1:24:43	Here's the list of topics that can get a thread locked. Religion Politics Edition Wars All three have the potential to generate a huge amount flames. Threads derailed to these topics are the ones that are usually locked at VCL request.