Thread locking - more info? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Thread locking - more info?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gregt_314
Aug 06, 2009 21:45:00 Hey!

ORC_Chaos just locked this thread:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1224184

Which may well be for the best; there's no intelligent argument happening in it any more.

I have three concerns with the thread locking:

(1) I'm keen to say it wasn't locked at my request. Given the context of the thread, it may look like one of the participants wanted to score a cheap win and reported it in order to get the last word. It's a bit upsetting I can't indicate on the thread that it wasn't me who had a problem with it.

(2) If the thread was reported by someone who genuinely feels offended by it somehow, and that's as a result of one of my posts, I'd want to apologise - even if it's one of the people baiting me, if they felt so threatened they needed to file a complaint I'd want to apologise. After all, it's only a forum debate and it doesn't justify upsetting anyone. Except I don't know who's complained or why.

and

(3) I can no longer edit my own posts in the thread so, again, if I've happened to upset someone I can't adjust the posts to stop the offending text being on public display.

A little feedback on why it was locked or whether there's an issue I can help with, please?
#2
subsistcyber
Aug 06, 2009 22:09:42 May have been the OP requested it being closed... (But I could be wrong.)
#3
gregt_314
Aug 06, 2009 22:14:16
May have been the OP requested it being closed... (But I could be wrong.)

Silly OP! You don't get to own a thread just because you started it!

Although if he's been actually offended in some way rather than just peeved I'd be the first to sincerely apologise.
#4
Nyronus
Aug 06, 2009 22:52:24 I reported it. I might not have been the only one. It wasn't, as you so claim, to get "a cheap win" by getting "the last word." I made it abundantly clear that I was through with you. I reported it because there was no "intelligent argument" going on as you so well put.
#5
gregt_314
Aug 06, 2009 22:59:14
I reported it.

So, to be clear, you haven't been personally offended - you're just feeling that you're done with the thread, so everyone else is too?

I want to be clear - if you have felt genuine personal hurt as a result of anything I've said you're entitled to a sincere apology; please don't hesitate to ask for one if you think you deserve one. That's not intended with any sarcasm or condescension - no one should feel personally threatened or upset as a result of a forum argument. If you feel you want that apology you'll get it and it won't be in any way related to the strength or otherwise of your arguments on that thread.

Failing that, thanks ORCs, can we have the thread back open and can I report the above abuse of the complaints system?
#6
gregt_314
Aug 06, 2009 23:21:10 Nyronus
Okay. I'm hearing that you don't consider any personal slight has been done to yourself, and that you don't feel any apology is called for. That's good to hear.

Which means I can put how I feel. I feel your reporting of the thread was inappropriate, was disrespectful of myself and other posters, and was motivated out of your personal frustration with the path the debate was taking rather than any real concern for the code of conduct. The debate on that thread included more people than just you and I'm disappointed that commenters like Alyri won't be able to respond to points raised by both sides in the thread that contains them.

I'm not expecting one, but if you felt like apologising to me, it would be appreciated. In any event I've requested the moderators to examine the matter and I'll stand by their decision. In the event the thread's reopened I'd invite your continued participation in that debate.
#7
Ash2Dust
Aug 06, 2009 23:21:36 Just sending in a report is not enough to get the thread closed. The mods still have to agree with the reporter, and they clearly agreed that the thread had outlived its usefulness. Whether you agree or not, that still holds some weight that it's not just some jerk trying to shut things down.
#8
gregt_314
Aug 06, 2009 23:25:03
Just sending in a report is not enough to get the thread closed. The mods still have to agree with the reporter, and they clearly agreed that the thread had outlived its usefulness. Whether you agree or not, that still holds some weight that it's not just some jerk trying to shut things down.

My understanding is that ORCs have a "lock first, think later" policy. They lock the thread in case it's genuinely a disaster, to stop things getting worse, and then they think it over, read the context, and get advice before making a final decision. Which is, in essence, the policy being expressed in the locking post on that thread (there's an expressed intention to "review" the matter).
#9
ORC_Chaos
Aug 06, 2009 23:25:56 I've removed content from this thread because Flaming, Baiting and Disruption are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php .

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.

If you wish to have a thread re-opened, please contact your VCL, in this case Webster. You may also write in to Customer Service , the log in for that site is the same as the forums.
#10
gregt_314
Aug 06, 2009 23:28:14 Thanks ORC_Chaos.

Was anyone interested enough in continuing the debate in that thread that I should ask Webster to re-open it?

Or shall we just all await the inevitable next "Combat vs Roleplaying" thread?
#11
Ash2Dust
Aug 06, 2009 23:33:02
My understanding is that ORCs have a "lock first, think later" policy. They lock the thread in case it's genuinely a disaster, to stop things getting worse, and then they think it over, read the context, and get advice before making a final decision. Which is, in essence, the policy being expressed in the locking post on that thread (there's an expressed intention to "review" the matter).

Yes, my understanding is that they do that if they receive a lot of reports on the same thread in a short amount of time, but a lone troll can't get a thread locked just by saying so. Otherwise, we'd have locking trolls making the whole boards unusable.
#12
Webster
Aug 06, 2009 23:58:42 I've put in the request to re-open

The issue can be discussed without discussing other people and/or their posting/argument styles.
#13
ORC_Chaos
Aug 07, 2009 0:16:20 This may be of interest: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=19205465#post19205465

Webster, I just saw your post. It's been a busy night. ;)

It's reopened in any case .
#14
Webster
Aug 07, 2009 0:30:57 I understand. I've had a few of those nights. :D

Thanks, Chaos!
#15
gregt_314
Aug 07, 2009 0:49:33
I've put in the request to re-open

The issue can be discussed without discussing other people and/or their posting/argument styles.

Thanks Webster! I'll keep it polite.

I have to say, though (noting to the edits to that thread) - if someone's logic is faulty, pointing that out is a valid argument. And if someone persists in a line of faulty argument after the flaw in it is pointed out, it's valid to ask them to review the thread and re-read what's gone before. And where someone doesn't carefully read your post before replying, repeatedly misquotes it, or specifically says they're not interested in your arguments before going on to rebut them it's legitimate to suggest that they're not, in fact, interested in a rational conversation at all.

I say that in a neutral way; I'm sure the other passionate posters in that thread would say that comment applies to me as much as it does to them. Personally, I'm not in principle opposed to having those accusations directed at me, and I'm both willing and able to argue them on their merits without needing to insult the person in place of the argument.
#16
Seeker95
Aug 07, 2009 7:41:06 GregT, I commend the manner in which you have handled this, and hope that I can do as well when faced with the same circumstances.
#17
Webster
Aug 07, 2009 8:42:44
Thanks Webster! I'll keep it polite.

Thanks. (BTW, the comment wasn't just for you.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gregt_314 Aug 06, 2009 21:45:00	Hey! ORC_Chaos just locked this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1224184 Which may well be for the best; there's no intelligent argument happening in it any more. I have three concerns with the thread locking: (1) I'm keen to say it wasn't locked at my request. Given the context of the thread, it may look like one of the participants wanted to score a cheap win and reported it in order to get the last word. It's a bit upsetting I can't indicate on the thread that it wasn't me who had a problem with it. (2) If the thread was reported by someone who genuinely feels offended by it somehow, and that's as a result of one of my posts, I'd want to apologise - even if it's one of the people baiting me, if they felt so threatened they needed to file a complaint I'd want to apologise. After all, it's only a forum debate and it doesn't justify upsetting anyone. Except I don't know who's complained or why. and (3) I can no longer edit my own posts in the thread so, again, if I've happened to upset someone I can't adjust the posts to stop the offending text being on public display. A little feedback on why it was locked or whether there's an issue I can help with, please?
#2 subsistcyber Aug 06, 2009 22:09:42	May have been the OP requested it being closed... (But I could be wrong.)
#3 gregt_314 Aug 06, 2009 22:14:16	May have been the OP requested it being closed... (But I could be wrong.) Silly OP! You don't get to own a thread just because you started it! Although if he's been actually offended in some way rather than just peeved I'd be the first to sincerely apologise.
#4 Nyronus Aug 06, 2009 22:52:24	I reported it. I might not have been the only one. It wasn't, as you so claim, to get "a cheap win" by getting "the last word." I made it abundantly clear that I was through with you. I reported it because there was no "intelligent argument" going on as you so well put.
#5 gregt_314 Aug 06, 2009 22:59:14	I reported it. So, to be clear, you haven't been personally offended - you're just feeling that you're done with the thread, so everyone else is too? I want to be clear - if you have felt genuine personal hurt as a result of anything I've said you're entitled to a sincere apology; please don't hesitate to ask for one if you think you deserve one. That's not intended with any sarcasm or condescension - no one should feel personally threatened or upset as a result of a forum argument. If you feel you want that apology you'll get it and it won't be in any way related to the strength or otherwise of your arguments on that thread. Failing that, thanks ORCs, can we have the thread back open and can I report the above abuse of the complaints system?
#6 gregt_314 Aug 06, 2009 23:21:10	Nyronus Okay. I'm hearing that you don't consider any personal slight has been done to yourself, and that you don't feel any apology is called for. That's good to hear. Which means I can put how I feel. I feel your reporting of the thread was inappropriate, was disrespectful of myself and other posters, and was motivated out of your personal frustration with the path the debate was taking rather than any real concern for the code of conduct. The debate on that thread included more people than just you and I'm disappointed that commenters like Alyri won't be able to respond to points raised by both sides in the thread that contains them. I'm not expecting one, but if you felt like apologising to me, it would be appreciated. In any event I've requested the moderators to examine the matter and I'll stand by their decision. In the event the thread's reopened I'd invite your continued participation in that debate.
#7 Ash2Dust Aug 06, 2009 23:21:36	Just sending in a report is not enough to get the thread closed. The mods still have to agree with the reporter, and they clearly agreed that the thread had outlived its usefulness. Whether you agree or not, that still holds some weight that it's not just some jerk trying to shut things down.
#8 gregt_314 Aug 06, 2009 23:25:03	Just sending in a report is not enough to get the thread closed. The mods still have to agree with the reporter, and they clearly agreed that the thread had outlived its usefulness. Whether you agree or not, that still holds some weight that it's not just some jerk trying to shut things down. My understanding is that ORCs have a "lock first, think later" policy. They lock the thread in case it's genuinely a disaster, to stop things getting worse, and then they think it over, read the context, and get advice before making a final decision. Which is, in essence, the policy being expressed in the locking post on that thread (there's an expressed intention to "review" the matter).
#9 ORC_Chaos Aug 06, 2009 23:25:56	I've removed content from this thread because Flaming, Baiting and Disruption are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php . Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. If you wish to have a thread re-opened, please contact your VCL, in this case Webster. You may also write in to Customer Service , the log in for that site is the same as the forums.
#10 gregt_314 Aug 06, 2009 23:28:14	Thanks ORC_Chaos. Was anyone interested enough in continuing the debate in that thread that I should ask Webster to re-open it? Or shall we just all await the inevitable next "Combat vs Roleplaying" thread?
#11 Ash2Dust Aug 06, 2009 23:33:02	My understanding is that ORCs have a "lock first, think later" policy. They lock the thread in case it's genuinely a disaster, to stop things getting worse, and then they think it over, read the context, and get advice before making a final decision. Which is, in essence, the policy being expressed in the locking post on that thread (there's an expressed intention to "review" the matter). Yes, my understanding is that they do that if they receive a lot of reports on the same thread in a short amount of time, but a lone troll can't get a thread locked just by saying so. Otherwise, we'd have locking trolls making the whole boards unusable.
#12 Webster Aug 06, 2009 23:58:42	I've put in the request to re-open The issue can be discussed without discussing other people and/or their posting/argument styles.
#13 ORC_Chaos Aug 07, 2009 0:16:20	This may be of interest: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=19205465#post19205465 Webster, I just saw your post. It's been a busy night. ;) It's reopened in any case .
#14 Webster Aug 07, 2009 0:30:57	I understand. I've had a few of those nights. :D Thanks, Chaos!
#15 gregt_314 Aug 07, 2009 0:49:33	I've put in the request to re-open The issue can be discussed without discussing other people and/or their posting/argument styles. Thanks Webster! I'll keep it polite. I have to say, though (noting to the edits to that thread) - if someone's logic is faulty, pointing that out is a valid argument. And if someone persists in a line of faulty argument after the flaw in it is pointed out, it's valid to ask them to review the thread and re-read what's gone before. And where someone doesn't carefully read your post before replying, repeatedly misquotes it, or specifically says they're not interested in your arguments before going on to rebut them it's legitimate to suggest that they're not, in fact, interested in a rational conversation at all. I say that in a neutral way; I'm sure the other passionate posters in that thread would say that comment applies to me as much as it does to them. Personally, I'm not in principle opposed to having those accusations directed at me, and I'm both willing and able to argue them on their merits without needing to insult the person in place of the argument.
#16 Seeker95 Aug 07, 2009 7:41:06	GregT, I commend the manner in which you have handled this, and hope that I can do as well when faced with the same circumstances.
#17 Webster Aug 07, 2009 8:42:44	Thanks Webster! I'll keep it polite. Thanks. (BTW, the comment wasn't just for you.)