Or show the Real Campaign world proper respect and Give Eberron a redundant forum ;)
Those are your only two choices.
Either delete an FR board, or add another Eberron one.
Discuss.
*this message may contain hyperbole, and infrequent use of emotes to denote this. I am only half serious here, though I do believe that Fr has too many boards.
Eberron might get a third forum when and if traffic begins to increase when WotC begins promoting Eberron Campaign Setting materials for 4th edition. Time will tell. Presently, FR forums get about three times the traffic as the two Eberron forums do. If any change is going to be made, it would be a consolidation of the Eberron forums! (Which I'm not advocating -- let's wait and see if we get much additional traffic after Eberron materials are released.)
If Wotc gave it a third forum I think it would help. I mean let's face it, even now they've shown favoritism towards FR by virtue of it being the first 4e Campaign Setting that they've released. Eberron should have been first in my humble internet person opinion (ignoring the fact that it's a much better world than old Fr and current Fr combined) because, they could then just alternate between editions instead of saying.
"Well we released Eberron but we really like FR"
It's kinda like the Space Marine Syndrome just not nearly as bad. :P
People don't complain about General Discussion being too crowded though :P
I do. All the time. I think it is too crowded because too many people keep posting threads there that should have been posted in appropriate topics.
If Wotc gave it a third forum I think it would help. I mean let's face it, even now they've shown favoritism towards FR by virtue of it being the first 4e Campaign Setting that they've released.
Creating more forums doesn't increase interest. Increased interest creates more forums. WotC isn't showing favoritism by having only two Eberron forums. It has two Eberron forums because people show less interest in it.
Similarly, if a bunch of people rediscovered the wonder of Spelljammer and began filling the forum with Spelljammer threads -- and continued to do so for a prolonged period -- I'm sure TPTB would consider increasing the number of Spelljammer forums.
Eberron should have been first in my humble internet person opinion
I'm pretty sure that releasing FR before Eberron was a market-based decision.
I am fans of both settings and do not think EB needs another forum. On the other hand I do not think FR needs a third one either. One can be running and the other General which can have Realmslore in there. Just my two cents.
If we were to merge two FR forums, I'd actually merge Running and General and leave Realmslore alone.
It probably was, I think it was a bad decision. You're supposed to promote your newer product lines first FR's a product you -know- is going to sell it doesn't need to be first, nor promoted nearly as heavily as it is. Your advertising dollars, and your release day dollars should go to your "up and coming" first.
That way you end up with two gauranteed sellers. Make sure your newer product is solid and able to stand kinda thing.
Also I imagine the realms hate would have been far less than it was, if they had -over the course of that year ((assuming it was swapped with Eberron in release order) they could have played out the story lines and all that, and gotten people to gradually shift into the new realms (and thus gaurantee more FR sells) rather than just throwing them head first into the cold river and expecting them to not die of hypothermia, or get angry at you.
Same with discussions about Mystra's favorite Mary Sue... I mean... Elminster.
I think he suggested Realmslore because, Eberron's not got one of those :D
It probably was, I think it was a bad decision. You're supposed to promote your newer product lines first FR's a product you -know- is going to sell it doesn't need to be first, nor promoted nearly as heavily as it is. Your advertising dollars, and your release day dollars should go to your "up and coming" first.
That way you end up with two gauranteed sellers. Make sure your newer product is solid and able to stand kinda thing.
Also I imagine the realms hate would have been far less than it was, if they had -over the course of that year ((assuming it was swapped with Eberron in release order) they could have played out the story lines and all that, and gotten people to gradually shift into the new realms (and thus gaurantee more FR sells) rather than just throwing them head first into the cold river and expecting them to not die of hypothermia, or get angry at you.
About this:
You're supposed to promote your newer product lines first FR's a product you -know- is going to sell it doesn't need to be first, nor promoted nearly as heavily as it is. Your advertising dollars, and your release day dollars should go to your "up and coming" first.
Why? What if a cost-benefit analysis is performed (and I would bet money that it was...) and said that clearly it would be more cost beneficial to do what WotC did? Would you still follow the set in stone pattern mentioned above?
That way you end up with two gauranteed sellers. Make sure your newer product is solid and able to stand kinda thing.
What if the benefit gained from making sure the 'newer product is solid and able to stand' does not off-set the revenue lost by not promoting the FR products? Promotion is expensive. It would most likely cost more to achieve the same monetary growth (not percentage growth...) promoting a smaller product than a larger more established one. That comes once again to a cost-benefit analysis. Further 'two guaranteed sellers' is not guaranteed much less the continued selling power of the first without support.
Also I imagine the realms hate would have been far less than it was, if they had -over the course of that year ((assuming it was swapped with Eberron in release order) they could have played out the story lines and all that, and gotten people to gradually shift into the new realms (and thus gaurantee more FR sells) rather than just throwing them head first into the cold river and expecting them to not die of hypothermia, or get angry at you.
So, how much difference would that really make? Cost-benefit analysis? How much product development and time was spent on the change as is? There was a three module series that dealt with attempts by Shar to destroy the weave. Well, if the PCs playing those had failed, they would have fit nicely into 4th edition. tthere was a six book series changing Lolth into a greater goddess and a trilogy killing off the rest of the Drow pantheon. There was the Last Mythal trilogy which resurrected Myth Drannor, the Blackstaff book which returned the Miyeritari city and killed Khelbun Arunsun, and the book Darkvision which reintroduced Deep Imaskar to the surface and had a lot to do with High Imaskar's appearance. People do not like the changes made to the Realms. I do not think that more development would have made a difference that would have compensated for the product development losses. Even though I do not like many of the changes, I understand that it was based upon profit and that is where a large business must perform.
I don't like the take away bit: 'If we can't have it you can't have it...'
Before, when there were only two FR boards, there were always several very active threads which took up a lot of space. I used to htink that all these small threads that pop-up and disappear did not exist before there were three boards. Then I realized that they always were pushed off the page before gaining any traction or having their questions answered. Now, with the extra space, I believe more appear, but more 'good' is done for the community because more are looked at and answered.
That is about all I have to say.
RUMPLESTIX
About this:
What if the benefit gained from making sure the 'newer product is solid and able to stand' does not off-set the revenue lost by not promoting the FR products? Promotion is expensive. It would most likely cost more to achieve the same monetary growth (not percentage growth...) promoting a smaller product than a larger more established one. That comes once again to a cost-benefit analysis. Further 'two guaranteed sellers' is not guaranteed much less the continued selling power of the first without support.
So, how much difference would that really make? Cost-benefit analysis? How much product development and time was spent on the change as is? There was a three module series that dealt with attempts by Shar to destroy the weave. Well, if the PCs playing those had failed, they would have fit nicely into 4th edition. tthere was a six book series changing Lolth into a greater goddess and a trilogy killing off the rest of the Drow pantheon. There was the Last Mythal trilogy which resurrected Myth Drannor, the Blackstaff book which returned the Miyeritari city and killed Khelbun Arunsun, and the book Darkvision which reintroduced Deep Imaskar to the surface and had a lot to do with High Imaskar's appearance. People do not like the changes made to the Realms. I do not think that more development would have made a difference that would have compensated for the product development losses. Even though I do not like many of the changes, I understand that it was based upon profit and that is where a large business must perform.
Tell that to the F150 :P Versus the Focus. (Which one gets more ad time. IIRC it's the Focus) the F150 doesn't change much year to year if at all, and gets little spurts of ads. It sells well. Infact it's the best seller in America IIRC. The Focus... well they've been blasting that thing down our throats for quite a while. It's a damned good seller too.
FR will sell regardless of advertising. That's what happens when you become an Icon.
I think it might have, maybe had Dragon and Dungeon still been around and had they been writing more FR articles, and releasing a Spellplague module or two there would not have been as many Ragers as there are about it.
I think it would have been a little smarter for them to release Eberron first, because one FR was 3e. (In some ways I think they should have just left it for dead. I like the Swordmage and Spellscarred but we don't need FR for those) There were untold volumes of 3e splat that was FR related. They in my opinion could have used an extra year when it came time to decide what to keep fluffwise and what should go.
But anyway, Give Eberron it's third board!
Tell that to the F150 Versus the Focus. (Which one gets more ad time. IIRC it's the Focus) the F150 doesn't change much year to year if at all, and gets little spurts of ads. It sells well. Infact it's the best seller in America IIRC. The Focus... well they've been blasting that thing down our throats for quite a while. It's a damned good seller too.
FR will sell regardless of advertising. That's what happens when you become an Icon.
I have to disagree. Every product in every market is different. A cost-benefit analysis performed for the F150 is not viable for the FR. If they (cost-benefit analysis) worked that way, there would be a textbook with most of them predetermined and no one would ever have to do one again.
For instance, what if the F150 received a shortened wheelbase, a shortened bed, the cab were reduced, and the engine replaced with a hybrid having 30% less horsepower in order to sell it to the growing fuel economy market? Suppose that most of its performance remained the same, but you did not have the same carrying capacity. Do you think it would remain an icon without a serious marketing campaign to attract the new crowd and retain the old?
The F150 is basically the same. The new FR is not.
Note: I am not comparing the new FR to a stripped down F150.:D That is merely the first thing that hopped into my head. If the F150 were changed into a luxury SUV, it would still need marketing.
Besides they already have a vehicle for that purpose. It's called the Ranger. :P
The New FR is just a body style change anyway :D They changed the shape of the head lights... yeah...so drastic. (And yet makes the Realms so much more pleasing to the eyes)
The engine isn't what gives the F150 such poor mileage (though it doesn't help. Chevy engines ftw!). It's the basic shape of the truck.
Besides they already have a vehicle for that purpose. It's called the Ranger. :P
The New FR is just a body style change anyway :D They changed the shape of the head lights... yeah...so drastic. (And yet makes the Realms so much more pleasing to the eyes)
Are you trying to get this thread locked?
Changed the headlights:
The four elemntal gods are no longer gods, they are primordials.
Selune is Sehanine Moonbow.
Aeredie (sp?) is Akadi.
Sune is Hanali Celanil.
Angharadh is a combination of two deities and a primordial instead of three elven deities.
Gruumsh is Talos.
The humanoid pantheons no longer exist.
Mystra is dead.
Evermeet is gone from the world.
Mulhorrand disintegrated and the pantheon with it.
The Abolethic Sovereignty appeared instantaneously and became a major power.
Tymanther dropped itself on Untheric lands.
Akanul dropped itself on Chessenta.
The entire continent of Maztica vanished.
The entire continent of Returned-Abeir appeared. (Note: It was called Returned-Abeir in the FRCG but I doubt that is how it is referred to by its inhabitants.
A new Eladrin kingdom popped up in the Moonshaes.
Impiltur was a trading power but the sea level dropped and left its ports high and dry.
Luskan was a powerful city of the north but is now a husk.
What kind of effect did Memnon and Calim being released have? Enormous.
This is just a start.
I am not complaining about these changes.
I am merely stating that to call it a change in headlights or bodystyle is simply incorrect. The engine (3.5 edition...) was replaced with a new one (4th edition). Even if the 'only a bodystyle difference' were correct, if you both completely change the bodystyle and engine of a vehicle, you are going to have to resell it to the public.
... release Eberron first, because one FR was 3e.
Forgotten Realms was a 3rd edition product? Forgotten Realms first appeared as Dragon articles back in 1979. The first modules and then the boxed set were an Advanced Dungeons and Dragon's Product. The Realms were pushed faily majorly in 2nd edition with a line of books (The Avatar Trilogy) released to help explain in-game the rules transition out-of-game. So, sure, Forgotten Realms was updated for 3rd edition and had plenty of supplements during the 3.5 era, but FR is not a 3e product. FR is a cornerstone of Dungeons and Dragons and has been for longer than most Eberron fan boys have been alive.
Don't get me wrong. I really like Eberron, and am looking forward to its 4E adaptation, but going with the Realms was a solid move in my opinion.
If we were to merge two FR forums, I'd actually merge Running and General and leave Realmslore alone.
Gotcha. That would make more sense.
Forgotten Realms was a 3rd edition product? Forgotten Realms first appeared as Dragon articles back in 1979. The first modules and then the boxed set were an Advanced Dungeons and Dragon's Product. The Realms were pushed faily majorly in 2nd edition with a line of books (The Avatar Trilogy) released to help explain in-game the rules transition out-of-game. So, sure, Forgotten Realms was updated for 3rd edition and had plenty of supplements during the 3.5 era, but FR is not a 3e product. FR is a cornerstone of Dungeons and Dragons and has been for longer than most Eberron fan boys have been alive.
Don't get me wrong. I really like Eberron, and am looking forward to its 4E adaptation, but going with the Realms was a solid move in my opinion.
I should have been more clear there. 3e was made for FR is what I should have said. :P
Has been is a keyword there. Fantasy is changing. At least we aren't having to wait 5+ years before wotc opens their mouth to acknowledge more exists than Tolkeinian, Gygaxian and Faerunian Fantasy. (All of which is the same thing. High Fantasy)
It would be nice to see more Eberron support though in the interim.
But then I remember I got the 'Keep so you can do whatever you want here.
;)
I should have been more clear there. 3e was made for FR is what I should have said. :P
Has been is a keyword there. Fantasy is changing. At least we aren't having to wait 5+ years before wotc opens their mouth to acknowledge more exists than Tolkeinian, Gygaxian and Faerunian Fantasy. (All of which is the same thing. High Fantasy)
It would be nice to see more Eberron support though in the interim.
If you're using "has been" in the derogatory meaning, I completely disagree. I like what they've done with the Realms in 4E. It's familiar enough that fans will recognize it, yet changed enough that it doesn't feel stale. Look at the poster above who listed the numerous changes. And just because more exists than high fantasy, doesn't mean we should ignore something that many want to play.
I really think it just boils down to the fact that some people, like yourself, just like Eberron more and were disappointed that they'd have to wait a year before the 4E version started showing up. I'm glad they're bringing it out next, because I think both the old and the new should be available. I'd like to see a brand new setting somewhere down the road after that. Or to see the POL setting fleshed out.
I just disagree that FR is "done" or even that it shouldn't have come first. They needed a tried and true staple to get the 4E ball rolling. Now that it is, they can keep it going with Eberron, new yet proven, and possibly others.
And of course I was disappointed.
I hear they are working on a Water World of sorts for a brand new setting. I wouldn't expect it to come before 2011 though... (After all we all know what's 2010 even though wizards has not admitted to it yet. It's Dark Sun)
I just think ultimately they could have done just as well waiting a year, and maybe releasing some Spellplague modules in the mean time (say just three). Worlds that change a great deal like FR did could use something like that as a "break them all in" measure.
-The Eberron boards, not now and not ever, so far, have not come to exhibit such activity. On recommendation, they were split into Eberron: Eberronlore and Eberron: Running Eberron, but the section did not have the traffic to cause this. Rather, it was uniformity and the idea that, in the future, activity will pick up, as it did in the Forgotten Realms section (though, activity did not pick up so much as it was always fairly high). When/if the amount of active threads in either Eberron: Eberronlore or Eberron: Running Eberron become heavy enough to warrant it, then there will be a third Eberron forum.
Anyway it is what it is and three Forums we have no matter what type of traffic caused it. Life goes on.
Take the complaint threads away and the active thread count on the FR General will plummet.
Me, I’d like to see the Running the Realms and Realmslore forums lumped together.
Take the complaint threads away and the active thread count on the FR General will plummet.
what does that tell you?
That people like to complain. :P
Yep.
-Joni
Hellcow?
Keith Baker's alias on the internet.
-Joni
Keith Baker's alias on the internet.
-Joni
Ah. Now I know. *L*
-Joni
Kamina! Throw away your logic and kick reason to the curb!
(off topic but I couldn't let it pass.. caught me by surprise to see the logo ;) )
Kamina! Throw away your logic and kick reason to the curb!
No no no! It's: GO BEYOND THE IMPOSSIBLE AND KICK REASON TO THE CURB!
-Joni
- M
And yes I agree it's fate shall be that of the realms! It shall be eternal!
Or just until Eberron gets another forum. Whichever comes first!
I hear that it wasn't Cyric that killed Mystra: it was CHUCK NORRIS!
Boo.
This thread is funny. :D
And yes I agree it's fate shall be that of the realms! It shall be eternal!
Or just until Eberron gets another forum. Whichever comes first!
-As I said in my original post in this thread:
The Eberron boards, not now and not ever, so far, have not come to exhibit such [as the Forgotten Realms section has]. On recommendation, they were split into Eberron: Eberronlore and Eberron: Running Eberron, but the section did not have the traffic to cause this. Rather, it was uniformity and the idea that, in the future, activity will pick up, as it did in the Forgotten Realms section (though, activity did not pick up so much as it was always fairly high). When/if the amount of active threads in either Eberron: Eberronlore or Eberron: Running Eberron become heavy enough to warrant it, then there will be a third Eberron forum.
This thread is funny. :D
Not really.
Actually, not at all.