What is the hold up?? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

What is the hold up??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thessik_irontail_dup
Jul 28, 2008 8:40:57 What is the hold up for the gaming table? thats the most important of all the applications being developed for 4e.

I have a group of friends who are just waiting for this release from all over Canada who want to play together like we use to before we moved.

I thought this was suppose to be released around the time 4e was? its beed quite awhile since we had an update on the dndinsider news site.
#2
batshido
Jul 28, 2008 8:43:36 I don't know exactly what's going on, but we keep hearing that there are some kinks that they're working out and it'll be ready "soon."

I'm chomping at the bit for it as well, and starting to get rather frustrated.
#3
epochgames
Jul 28, 2008 12:58:43 There's a lot of info scattered around the DDi general forums. A lot of angry people too.

Essentially, the table will be the last piece they launch. And, they hope to have some of DDi finished by 2009, but not all.

Further, if we take a look at how the rest of the rolled-out parts of DDi compare to their hype (mags and compendium), as much as I'm waiting for the table as well, I can't be sure it'll deliver anywhere near the capabilities promised.

I'm not here to burst a bubble or anything, I really want the table and other components to be ASAP and be worth every penny and more that they're looking at charging, but recent events are rapidly dissolving.
#4
spearspike
Jul 28, 2008 12:59:56 The DDI forum is hysterical. Its like Wizards (or at least Ken Troop) are trying to anger their customers.
#5
krownhunter07
Jul 28, 2008 13:13:29 Ehh... there is a saying in the Army 'always in a hurry to wait', it fits here. I'd rather have it done right then done fast, myself.

That said, I am really wanting to get on this when it comes up. I just started a 4e game online and D&DI would be a huge boon.
#6
kursk
Jul 28, 2008 13:24:50
Ehh... there is a saying in the Army 'always in a hurry to wait', it fits here. I'd rather have it done right then done fast, myself.

That said, I am really wanting to get on this when it comes up. I just started a 4e game online and D&DI would be a huge boon.

" Q: How come you are not including the mapper function in D&D E-Tools?

A: After extensive review and testing, the mapper, originally designed for use in computer game play, was not found to be useful in tabletop RPG play, and so the decision was made to remove this function from the product. "

Funny link
#7
urakh
Jul 28, 2008 13:30:09 I try not to follow the forums too closely as it is hard to sift through what is subjective and which might be fact, quite impossible even.

What I can attest to is the lack of anything at all for the month of July for DDI news (also mentioned previously here). I am a little disappointed that there isn't at least some news to keep the people at bay. Not saying anything at all begs one to question if they have only a cold shoulder to offer the hopefuls who pick up the new books and head on over to see what online options available to them.

-Urakh
#8
doctorhook
Jul 28, 2008 13:32:01 I love 4E.

I am excited about DDI, and the promises it makes.

However, (and I hate to say this), the Master Tools debacle from 3E is probably going to get mentioned more and more in the same breath as DDI over the coming weeks, if nothing happens in that time.

I really want them to make DDI work!
#9
spearspike
Jul 28, 2008 13:33:57
Ehh... there is a saying in the Army 'always in a hurry to wait', it fits here. I'd rather have it done right then done fast, myself.

That said, I am really wanting to get on this when it comes up. I just started a 4e game online and D&DI would be a huge boon.

I think people are only mildy miffed at the whole missing the release date thing. What has people up in arms (on the DDI forum at least) is the lack of communication and updates. They keep promising to give us more updates and improve communication but then never follow thru.
#10
ostrakon
Jul 28, 2008 13:45:45 I think I'll stick with Gametable + Ventrillo either way. It's clear how much they care about getting this software to us, so I'll make it clear how much I care about using it.

Unless it's really freakin' spectacular.
#11
nova_head
Jul 28, 2008 13:52:57 It's clear they would rather not have a Magic Online III on there hands and want to make sure its set up and working right.
#12
doctorhook
Jul 28, 2008 17:38:18
It's clear they would rather not have a Magic Online III on there hands and want to make sure its set up and working right.

Magic Online III

Hmm... makes you wonder when WotC will learn its lesson about publishing software.
#13
cal-vigu
Jul 28, 2008 18:45:09
I love 4E.

I am excited about DDI, and the promises it makes.

However, (and I hate to say this), the Master Tools debacle from 3E is probably going to get mentioned more and more in the same breath as DDI over the coming weeks, if nothing happens in that time.

I really want them to make DDI work!

I remember the Master Tools gag - didn't that one guy blow most of the budget on Voice actors and Sound effects?

(heavy sigh) I've kinda just figured the bulk of DDI will be vaporware again. But it was a nifty idea!
#14
doctorhook
Jul 29, 2008 2:12:33
I remember the Master Tools gag - didn't that one guy blow most of the budget on Voice actors and Sound effects?

(heavy sigh) I've kinda just figured the bulk of DDI will be vaporware again. But it was a nifty idea!

I've still got my Master Tools disc kickin' around somewhere... I don't know anything about where the budget got blown though. (Although your version sounds pretty hilarious!)

Just after I typed my previous response in this thread, I read about the death of Gleemax over at ENWorld. At the moment, this makes me optimistic! They're shutting down Gleemax to focus on developing DDI! WotC's software track record just got a little worse, but if it means DDI turns out the way it's supposed to, I'm okay with it!

I want DDI to work. I love the current online format of Dragon and Dungeon magazines. (Except that I'm never sure how's best to print and staple them. :P) I don't want these to go back to the newsstand; I want them to succeed, along with the D&D Compendium, the Character Creator, and the Game Table. I hope for extensive, well-written, well-balanced, up-to-date official online resources for my game. I'm going to pray for DDI to succeed.
#15
bl4ckj4ck
Jul 29, 2008 6:56:22 I really hope it's not against ToS, or anything, but the group I run uses RPtool. It's like the D&D gametable, but only 2-d.

I'm not surprised at the delay. These things are hard to program.

rptools.net
#16
khamles
Jul 29, 2008 7:43:42 If they would respond at all, it would be nice. There was a very nice letter by Ken Troop that had a lot of nice feeling and words in it and then absolutely no-responses-at-all for...i think...over a month now.
#17
diremongoose
Jul 29, 2008 8:16:29 Historically, WotC hasn't had quite the success with software projects that they have with other kinds of projects.

http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Do-You-Believe-In-Magic-Online.aspx

Software projects of reasonable complexity that need high availability and to support a large number of concurrent users are hard to get right. From everything I've ever heard, WotC is committed to hiring the best developers to insure these projects go well... where best implicitly means "works cheap" and "already lives in Seattle."

I'm honestly not sure what the business solution to their problems are. I can't see them laying out the money to assemble the kind of team to do this right -- expertise in managing complex software projects isn't cheap, and I'm not sure if the cost of doing it right could even be justified, profit-wise. Probably they'll continue trying to do it on the cheap and continue discovering the hard way why it only seems like it can be done that way.
#18
celerystalkr
Jul 29, 2008 8:22:16 You guys are like a pack of ravenous beasts, chomping and biting and yipping and rawr! Calm down already. No game worth anything has EVER come out on time. Seriously. All the major MMO's were delayed, all their expansions were delayed. Usually what happens, they manage to get it together in time, but there are several glitches in the system. They have 2 choices: 1. Put it out as-is, and have a lot of people quit angrily when things don't work as they would want (aka hellgate?), or 2. Delay the release and make it great. The standard rule of thumb (if you bother to listen to early stated release dates), is add 6 months to a year. 95% of you won't die before that happens, and to the 5% that will, you have my condolences. I'll miss you.

All that being stated, without the 3d table top, just using the 2d counters and maps, DDI will be a HUGE asset. I hear whining about the price... $15 a month. Ok, if you go out to a bar for ONE night, you'll spend that in cover charge, or at least by the time you have a buzz. If you play any MMO out there, same price. If you can find a serious gaming group that meets once a week, and the DM can build maps and allow for a great campaign over the net, its worth it. Hell, if the voice chat system sounds good, it's worth it. I've payed more for crappy voice services monthly.

All-in-all, I'm sure it will come out to be great, and I'm sure it will come out late. Relax, have a de-caffinated soda, pull out your cheetos and plan that first grand adventure for all the onlinies you're gonna meet. Dorks of the world unite under the banner of DDI! Muahahahaha!

:P
#19
doctorhook
Jul 29, 2008 14:06:10 I think it's safe to say that we, as a community, would be a lot less ravenous/apprehensive if we received more direct communication from WotC on the development state of DDI. I think it's the not-knowing that's got us most fired up, especially when so much of 4E has been tied to the DDI concept.

Weekly DDI news updates, maybe? As long as the info being given out is honest, of course. I think many of us are willing to be patient if we knew what exactly was happening. For example, "DDI's Character Creator is 90% done, it should be up in beta form within the next two weeks! But we're having trouble with the game table, we're stuck at 60% and it will be a couple months still."

Keep us in the loop, WotC!
#20
oldpaladin08
Jul 29, 2008 18:10:12 There is a big difference IMO between a MMO being delayed and a aid to a product that was one of WOC's biggest selling points about how this addition would be different and better. To be honest, that was the main reason my friends and I bought 4e. Its kind of like buying deluxe scrabble over regular scrabble because of the fancy spinning board(sorry for the scrabble reference) and then when you buy it you get the same old cardboard fold-out and a letter saying "sorry about the delay in the fancy board, it'll be mailed sometime in the future".

I think one of the reasons WOC is not hurrying with this product is that they just realized how much it would cut into the sales for their MINIATURES products.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thessik_irontail_dup Jul 28, 2008 8:40:57	What is the hold up for the gaming table? thats the most important of all the applications being developed for 4e. I have a group of friends who are just waiting for this release from all over Canada who want to play together like we use to before we moved. I thought this was suppose to be released around the time 4e was? its beed quite awhile since we had an update on the dndinsider news site.
#2 batshido Jul 28, 2008 8:43:36	I don't know exactly what's going on, but we keep hearing that there are some kinks that they're working out and it'll be ready "soon." I'm chomping at the bit for it as well, and starting to get rather frustrated.
#3 epochgames Jul 28, 2008 12:58:43	There's a lot of info scattered around the DDi general forums. A lot of angry people too. Essentially, the table will be the last piece they launch. And, they hope to have some of DDi finished by 2009, but not all. Further, if we take a look at how the rest of the rolled-out parts of DDi compare to their hype (mags and compendium), as much as I'm waiting for the table as well, I can't be sure it'll deliver anywhere near the capabilities promised. I'm not here to burst a bubble or anything, I really want the table and other components to be ASAP and be worth every penny and more that they're looking at charging, but recent events are rapidly dissolving.
#4 spearspike Jul 28, 2008 12:59:56	The DDI forum is hysterical. Its like Wizards (or at least Ken Troop) are trying to anger their customers.
#5 krownhunter07 Jul 28, 2008 13:13:29	Ehh... there is a saying in the Army 'always in a hurry to wait', it fits here. I'd rather have it done right then done fast, myself. That said, I am really wanting to get on this when it comes up. I just started a 4e game online and D&DI would be a huge boon.
#6 kursk Jul 28, 2008 13:24:50	Ehh... there is a saying in the Army 'always in a hurry to wait', it fits here. I'd rather have it done right then done fast, myself. That said, I am really wanting to get on this when it comes up. I just started a 4e game online and D&DI would be a huge boon. " Q: How come you are not including the mapper function in D&D E-Tools? A: After extensive review and testing, the mapper, originally designed for use in computer game play, was not found to be useful in tabletop RPG play, and so the decision was made to remove this function from the product. " Funny link
#7 urakh Jul 28, 2008 13:30:09	I try not to follow the forums too closely as it is hard to sift through what is subjective and which might be fact, quite impossible even. What I can attest to is the lack of anything at all for the month of July for DDI news (also mentioned previously here). I am a little disappointed that there isn't at least some news to keep the people at bay. Not saying anything at all begs one to question if they have only a cold shoulder to offer the hopefuls who pick up the new books and head on over to see what online options available to them. -Urakh
#8 doctorhook Jul 28, 2008 13:32:01	I love 4E. I am excited about DDI, and the promises it makes. However, (and I hate to say this), the Master Tools debacle from 3E is probably going to get mentioned more and more in the same breath as DDI over the coming weeks, if nothing happens in that time. I really want them to make DDI work!
#9 spearspike Jul 28, 2008 13:33:57	Ehh... there is a saying in the Army 'always in a hurry to wait', it fits here. I'd rather have it done right then done fast, myself. That said, I am really wanting to get on this when it comes up. I just started a 4e game online and D&DI would be a huge boon. I think people are only mildy miffed at the whole missing the release date thing. What has people up in arms (on the DDI forum at least) is the lack of communication and updates. They keep promising to give us more updates and improve communication but then never follow thru.
#10 ostrakon Jul 28, 2008 13:45:45	I think I'll stick with Gametable + Ventrillo either way. It's clear how much they care about getting this software to us, so I'll make it clear how much I care about using it. Unless it's really freakin' spectacular.
#11 nova_head Jul 28, 2008 13:52:57	It's clear they would rather not have a Magic Online III on there hands and want to make sure its set up and working right.
#12 doctorhook Jul 28, 2008 17:38:18	It's clear they would rather not have a Magic Online III on there hands and want to make sure its set up and working right. Magic Online III Hmm... makes you wonder when WotC will learn its lesson about publishing software.
#13 cal-vigu Jul 28, 2008 18:45:09	I love 4E. I am excited about DDI, and the promises it makes. However, (and I hate to say this), the Master Tools debacle from 3E is probably going to get mentioned more and more in the same breath as DDI over the coming weeks, if nothing happens in that time. I really want them to make DDI work! I remember the Master Tools gag - didn't that one guy blow most of the budget on Voice actors and Sound effects? (heavy sigh) I've kinda just figured the bulk of DDI will be vaporware again. But it was a nifty idea!
#14 doctorhook Jul 29, 2008 2:12:33	I remember the Master Tools gag - didn't that one guy blow most of the budget on Voice actors and Sound effects? (heavy sigh) I've kinda just figured the bulk of DDI will be vaporware again. But it was a nifty idea! I've still got my Master Tools disc kickin' around somewhere... I don't know anything about where the budget got blown though. (Although your version sounds pretty hilarious!) Just after I typed my previous response in this thread, I read about the death of Gleemax over at ENWorld. At the moment, this makes me optimistic! They're shutting down Gleemax to focus on developing DDI! WotC's software track record just got a little worse, but if it means DDI turns out the way it's supposed to, I'm okay with it! I want DDI to work. I love the current online format of Dragon and Dungeon magazines. (Except that I'm never sure how's best to print and staple them. :P) I don't want these to go back to the newsstand; I want them to succeed, along with the D&D Compendium, the Character Creator, and the Game Table. I hope for extensive, well-written, well-balanced, up-to-date official online resources for my game. I'm going to pray for DDI to succeed.
#15 bl4ckj4ck Jul 29, 2008 6:56:22	I really hope it's not against ToS, or anything, but the group I run uses RPtool. It's like the D&D gametable, but only 2-d. I'm not surprised at the delay. These things are hard to program. rptools.net
#16 khamles Jul 29, 2008 7:43:42	If they would respond at all, it would be nice. There was a very nice letter by Ken Troop that had a lot of nice feeling and words in it and then absolutely no-responses-at-all for...i think...over a month now.
#17 diremongoose Jul 29, 2008 8:16:29	Historically, WotC hasn't had quite the success with software projects that they have with other kinds of projects. http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Do-You-Believe-In-Magic-Online.aspx Software projects of reasonable complexity that need high availability and to support a large number of concurrent users are hard to get right. From everything I've ever heard, WotC is committed to hiring the best developers to insure these projects go well... where best implicitly means "works cheap" and "already lives in Seattle." I'm honestly not sure what the business solution to their problems are. I can't see them laying out the money to assemble the kind of team to do this right -- expertise in managing complex software projects isn't cheap, and I'm not sure if the cost of doing it right could even be justified, profit-wise. Probably they'll continue trying to do it on the cheap and continue discovering the hard way why it only seems like it can be done that way.
#18 celerystalkr Jul 29, 2008 8:22:16	You guys are like a pack of ravenous beasts, chomping and biting and yipping and rawr! Calm down already. No game worth anything has EVER come out on time. Seriously. All the major MMO's were delayed, all their expansions were delayed. Usually what happens, they manage to get it together in time, but there are several glitches in the system. They have 2 choices: 1. Put it out as-is, and have a lot of people quit angrily when things don't work as they would want (aka hellgate?), or 2. Delay the release and make it great. The standard rule of thumb (if you bother to listen to early stated release dates), is add 6 months to a year. 95% of you won't die before that happens, and to the 5% that will, you have my condolences. I'll miss you. All that being stated, without the 3d table top, just using the 2d counters and maps, DDI will be a HUGE asset. I hear whining about the price... $15 a month. Ok, if you go out to a bar for ONE night, you'll spend that in cover charge, or at least by the time you have a buzz. If you play any MMO out there, same price. If you can find a serious gaming group that meets once a week, and the DM can build maps and allow for a great campaign over the net, its worth it. Hell, if the voice chat system sounds good, it's worth it. I've payed more for crappy voice services monthly. All-in-all, I'm sure it will come out to be great, and I'm sure it will come out late. Relax, have a de-caffinated soda, pull out your cheetos and plan that first grand adventure for all the onlinies you're gonna meet. Dorks of the world unite under the banner of DDI! Muahahahaha! :P
#19 doctorhook Jul 29, 2008 14:06:10	I think it's safe to say that we, as a community, would be a lot less ravenous/apprehensive if we received more direct communication from WotC on the development state of DDI. I think it's the not-knowing that's got us most fired up, especially when so much of 4E has been tied to the DDI concept. Weekly DDI news updates, maybe? As long as the info being given out is honest, of course. I think many of us are willing to be patient if we knew what exactly was happening. For example, "DDI's Character Creator is 90% done, it should be up in beta form within the next two weeks! But we're having trouble with the game table, we're stuck at 60% and it will be a couple months still." Keep us in the loop, WotC!
#20 oldpaladin08 Jul 29, 2008 18:10:12	There is a big difference IMO between a MMO being delayed and a aid to a product that was one of WOC's biggest selling points about how this addition would be different and better. To be honest, that was the main reason my friends and I bought 4e. Its kind of like buying deluxe scrabble over regular scrabble because of the fancy spinning board(sorry for the scrabble reference) and then when you buy it you get the same old cardboard fold-out and a letter saying "sorry about the delay in the fancy board, it'll be mailed sometime in the future". I think one of the reasons WOC is not hurrying with this product is that they just realized how much it would cut into the sales for their MINIATURES products.