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What's with the polls article

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Valenor
Mar 22, 2011 14:01:30 Ok, I for one am always defending WotC and the D&D franchise.
But something to get PO about is when WotC right out lies to our faces.

in today's article "What's with the Polls?" www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

I don't need to see the REAL poll results to know the results have been fudged. Of course you want to make us think that 4e is the prefered version because 1) it's the one you're promoting, and 2) and most importantly it is the one you're profiting from.

4e is relatively new to have so much followers, and just as I belive 3.5 has more followers than 4e, I believe there are still more followers for other versions than 3.5!

Maybe, just maybe the people who like any but 4e versions (who are overwhelmingly more than the ones that like 4) do not even look at the website and missed their vote and MAYBE that's why the 4e has seemingly more votes.

BUT I STILL SAY THIS IS A LOAD OF BS.

Just like that poll you had in the past about what features of DDI users really looked more forward too regarding the ORIGINAL PROMISED PRODUCTS, and posted the "results" where the Virtual Table top was something most DDI users wouldn't even look at or where interested in according to the poll results.
The Virtual Table top was the MAIN feature of DDI that probably boosted the sales to get a DDI account.

Heck, just admit it, you got sued by Fantasy Grounds for using their Virtual Table Top images to promote your Virtual Table top that never made it. (www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread...)

#2
Seeker95
Mar 22, 2011 14:17:37 I doubt they fudged the poll results.
#3
calronmoonflower
Mar 22, 2011 15:20:06 You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness.
#4
Janx_14
Mar 22, 2011 15:50:53 Pretty much what the others have said. Its a website that is for 4e, I'd honestly be surprised if there's alot of people who prefer 3.5 browsing the main page regularly, much less actually reading articles in magazines for 4e. Heck, you even admitted it yourself.

The guy didnt go on to brag about how 4e did well on it. I don't see why your going in a fuss.

That said, the article says itself that the data isnt really conclusive. The best conclusion is that people who take a look at 4e magazines, on a 4e website, tend to prefer 4e, and mostly havent played 1st and 2nd edition.

The results actually mirror the response I gave.
#5
Valenor
Mar 22, 2011 16:00:01
You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness.

I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing]
LOL

And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result?
Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked.
#6
Valenor
Mar 22, 2011 16:03:37
They do not need to fudge the poll results. The polls are on WotC's forums and are answered by people who probably play and like 4e.

People who like 3.5 probably are on Paizo's forums and do not answer these polls.

So the polls results are true, but reflect the preferences of people who come here. Look at the results. Percentage of people who like 4e is about teh same of people who do not like 3.5.

What surprises me is the number of people who never played 1st and 2nd edition.

A real scientific poll should be done by some neutral compagnie calling random gamers and asking them questions about DnD/RPGs.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with you.
But also as with your same observation that it is weird that other people voted for older versions.

So, true, people who like 4e (and truly I count myself as one of those) visit this site more often than people who refuse to let go of the older versions.
#7
Janx_14
Mar 22, 2011 16:18:08
You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness.

I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing]
LOL

And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result?
Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked.

You do kind of have me there, as I used Maptools for 3.5 and I will continue to use Maptools for 4e. If the VT causes the price of DDI to increase I'll probably leave because I dont want to pay more for a tool I wont use. Only me and another person in my group have DDI, and I'm not going to make 5 other people pay to play.

That said, I did find the VT poll results kind of wonky, but that was really a debate for back then, not now. There's been some who have explained the result of "Tools to make the game easier" was popular because voters assumed the VT was a part of that.
#8
Valenor
Mar 22, 2011 16:27:50
That said, I did find the VT poll results kind of wonky, but that was really a debate for back then, not now. There's been some who have explained the result of "Tools to make the game easier" was popular because voters assumed the VT was a part of that.

True, but once I noticed a wonky poll before... then what's to assure me the rest are not as well?
#9
calronmoonflower
Mar 22, 2011 17:24:07
You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness.

I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing]
LOL

I edited that sentence after I typed it and overlooked that. However, my bad spelling doesn't impact the validity of my point. A skewed sample does impact the results of polls.

And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result?
Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked.

As you are using that to support your position, it is up to you to show the results of the poll rather than anyone else to go hunt it down.
Even then at best this would mean that we shouldn't take WotC word on the poll results, rather than being proof of them lying now.
#10
Valenor
Mar 22, 2011 18:36:50
You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness.

I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing]
LOL

I edited that sentence after I typed it and overlooked that. However, my bad spelling doesn't impact the validity of my point. A skewed sample does impact the results of polls.

And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result?
Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked.

As you are using that to support your position, it is up to you to show the results of the poll rather than anyone else to go hunt it down.
Even then at best this would mean that we shouldn't take WotC word on the poll results, rather than being proof of them lying now.

The link to the survey is supposed to be here:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/...

(taken from post community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...)

Which if you click in it, you will be sent to the D&D home page, odd isn't it? it's NOT like they are trying to make you forget about it, it must be hidden somewhere deep... or wait, maybe it didn't exist at all... yeah, that must be it.

But you may see the survey results in this other forum post:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Anywho, the only reason I originally bought DDI in the first place was because they had promised to later on deliver a VTT with a DDI subscription (in your words, they did so with "maliciousness" to sell their DDI accounts) and then took back the VTT delivery promise.

According to the article and survey results "the community was not interested enough" and hence dropped the VTT. HECK, I don't care if the community was really interested or not (which I highly doubt they were not interested). They didn't deliver a product they had promised to promote DDI. regardless of the apparent interest, it should've been delivered.

They had some really interesting videos about their VTT, even the bald guy (Chris Perkins?) did a presentation of the VTT and it was very promising:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m20AJvdzAdo&feat...

#11
calronmoonflower
Mar 22, 2011 20:40:59 @ Valenor:From what I heard the company that WotC fired to make the first VT went under, but I'm having problem finding anything on this including the name of the company that WotC hired for digital products. IIRC it had "sun" in the name, but I'm not sure.

There is nothing "maliciousness" if they honestly thought that it would be available for the players when they announced it. If you wish to claim that they where being malicious with that announcement, then it is up to you to show proof of that.

Also I cannot find anything say that they decided to drop it for any reason in what quotes of the poll I can find. Rather it seen that some poster said that.

Note there new virtual table top that is currently in beta testing.

#12
Valenor
Mar 22, 2011 22:13:55
@ Valenor:From what I heard the company that WotC fired to make the first VT went under, but I'm having problem finding anything on this including the name of the company that WotC hired for digital products. IIRC it had "sun" in the name, but I'm not sure.

There is nothing "maliciousness" if they honestly thought that it would be available for the players when they announced it. If you wish to claim that they where being malicious with that announcement, then it is up to you to show proof of that.

Also I cannot find anything say that they decided to drop it for any reason in what quotes of the poll I can find. Rather it seen that some poster said that.

Note there new virtual table top that is currently in beta testing.

Oh wow, I didn't know there was another VT on the way. IF and WHEN they release it I will stand corrected (and quite happy about it since that will definitely make me renew my DDI Account).

Malicious may be a harsh word, even though I'm borrowing it from your vocabulary, I do think it was malicious though to offer a service to lure people into buying their product and then never deliver, or deliver 3 or 4 years later.

If it is not malicious, it is mediocre, or inept, or incompetent, choose your pick.
#13
calronmoonflower
Mar 22, 2011 23:01:37
There is nothing "maliciousness" if they honestly thought that it would be available for the players when they announced it. If you wish to claim that they where being malicious with that announcement, then it is up to you to show proof of that.

That statement is ridiculus. He cannot prove they were malicisou like you cannot prove they were not malicious.

Your the one putting forth that they acted maliciously therefor it is up to you to supply the proof. The inability do do so doesn't mean that they are innocent of the charge, but rather that you cannot prove it.
#14
Dargurd
Mar 23, 2011 0:35:32
World English Dictionary

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Valenor Mar 22, 2011 14:01:30	Ok, I for one am always defending WotC and the D&D franchise. But something to get PO about is when WotC right out lies to our faces. in today's article "What's with the Polls?" www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... I don't need to see the REAL poll results to know the results have been fudged. Of course you want to make us think that 4e is the prefered version because 1) it's the one you're promoting, and 2) and most importantly it is the one you're profiting from. 4e is relatively new to have so much followers, and just as I belive 3.5 has more followers than 4e, I believe there are still more followers for other versions than 3.5! Maybe, just maybe the people who like any but 4e versions (who are overwhelmingly more than the ones that like 4) do not even look at the website and missed their vote and MAYBE that's why the 4e has seemingly more votes. BUT I STILL SAY THIS IS A LOAD OF BS. Just like that poll you had in the past about what features of DDI users really looked more forward too regarding the ORIGINAL PROMISED PRODUCTS, and posted the "results" where the Virtual Table top was something most DDI users wouldn't even look at or where interested in according to the poll results. The Virtual Table top was the MAIN feature of DDI that probably boosted the sales to get a DDI account. Heck, just admit it, you got sued by Fantasy Grounds for using their Virtual Table Top images to promote your Virtual Table top that never made it. (www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread...)
#2 Seeker95 Mar 22, 2011 14:17:37	I doubt they fudged the poll results.
#3 calronmoonflower Mar 22, 2011 15:20:06	You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness.
#4 Janx_14 Mar 22, 2011 15:50:53	Pretty much what the others have said. Its a website that is for 4e, I'd honestly be surprised if there's alot of people who prefer 3.5 browsing the main page regularly, much less actually reading articles in magazines for 4e. Heck, you even admitted it yourself. The guy didnt go on to brag about how 4e did well on it. I don't see why your going in a fuss. That said, the article says itself that the data isnt really conclusive. The best conclusion is that people who take a look at 4e magazines, on a 4e website, tend to prefer 4e, and mostly havent played 1st and 2nd edition. The results actually mirror the response I gave.
#5 Valenor Mar 22, 2011 16:00:01	You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness. I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing] LOL And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result? Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked.
#6 Valenor Mar 22, 2011 16:03:37	They do not need to fudge the poll results. The polls are on WotC's forums and are answered by people who probably play and like 4e. People who like 3.5 probably are on Paizo's forums and do not answer these polls. So the polls results are true, but reflect the preferences of people who come here. Look at the results. Percentage of people who like 4e is about teh same of people who do not like 3.5. What surprises me is the number of people who never played 1st and 2nd edition. A real scientific poll should be done by some neutral compagnie calling random gamers and asking them questions about DnD/RPGs. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. But also as with your same observation that it is weird that other people voted for older versions. So, true, people who like 4e (and truly I count myself as one of those) visit this site more often than people who refuse to let go of the older versions.
#7 Janx_14 Mar 22, 2011 16:18:08	You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness. I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing] LOL And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result? Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked. You do kind of have me there, as I used Maptools for 3.5 and I will continue to use Maptools for 4e. If the VT causes the price of DDI to increase I'll probably leave because I dont want to pay more for a tool I wont use. Only me and another person in my group have DDI, and I'm not going to make 5 other people pay to play. That said, I did find the VT poll results kind of wonky, but that was really a debate for back then, not now. There's been some who have explained the result of "Tools to make the game easier" was popular because voters assumed the VT was a part of that.
#8 Valenor Mar 22, 2011 16:27:50	That said, I did find the VT poll results kind of wonky, but that was really a debate for back then, not now. There's been some who have explained the result of "Tools to make the game easier" was popular because voters assumed the VT was a part of that. True, but once I noticed a wonky poll before... then what's to assure me the rest are not as well?
#9 calronmoonflower Mar 22, 2011 17:24:07	You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness. I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing] LOL I edited that sentence after I typed it and overlooked that. However, my bad spelling doesn't impact the validity of my point. A skewed sample does impact the results of polls. And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result? Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked. As you are using that to support your position, it is up to you to show the results of the poll rather than anyone else to go hunt it down. Even then at best this would mean that we shouldn't take WotC word on the poll results, rather than being proof of them lying now.
#10 Valenor Mar 22, 2011 18:36:50	You are confusioning the unrepresentative sample that you get from a site that supports 4E, but not other editions, with maliciousness. I'm "Confusioning?" perhaps I'm confusioning your writoning too[ing] LOL I edited that sentence after I typed it and overlooked that. However, my bad spelling doesn't impact the validity of my point. A skewed sample does impact the results of polls. And what about the Virtual Table top poll result? was that also a REAL result? Yeah, I bet none of you wanted a virtual table top to go with your DDI account. That would've absolutely sucked. As you are using that to support your position, it is up to you to show the results of the poll rather than anyone else to go hunt it down. Even then at best this would mean that we shouldn't take WotC word on the poll results, rather than being proof of them lying now. The link to the survey is supposed to be here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/... (taken from post community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...) Which if you click in it, you will be sent to the D&D home page, odd isn't it? it's NOT like they are trying to make you forget about it, it must be hidden somewhere deep... or wait, maybe it didn't exist at all... yeah, that must be it. But you may see the survey results in this other forum post: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Anywho, the only reason I originally bought DDI in the first place was because they had promised to later on deliver a VTT with a DDI subscription (in your words, they did so with "maliciousness" to sell their DDI accounts) and then took back the VTT delivery promise. According to the article and survey results "the community was not interested enough" and hence dropped the VTT. HECK, I don't care if the community was really interested or not (which I highly doubt they were not interested). They didn't deliver a product they had promised to promote DDI. regardless of the apparent interest, it should've been delivered. They had some really interesting videos about their VTT, even the bald guy (Chris Perkins?) did a presentation of the VTT and it was very promising: www.youtube.com/watch?v=m20AJvdzAdo&feat...
#11 calronmoonflower Mar 22, 2011 20:40:59	@ Valenor:From what I heard the company that WotC fired to make the first VT went under, but I'm having problem finding anything on this including the name of the company that WotC hired for digital products. IIRC it had "sun" in the name, but I'm not sure. There is nothing "maliciousness" if they honestly thought that it would be available for the players when they announced it. If you wish to claim that they where being malicious with that announcement, then it is up to you to show proof of that. Also I cannot find anything say that they decided to drop it for any reason in what quotes of the poll I can find. Rather it seen that some poster said that. Note there new virtual table top that is currently in beta testing.
#12 Valenor Mar 22, 2011 22:13:55	@ Valenor:From what I heard the company that WotC fired to make the first VT went under, but I'm having problem finding anything on this including the name of the company that WotC hired for digital products. IIRC it had "sun" in the name, but I'm not sure. There is nothing "maliciousness" if they honestly thought that it would be available for the players when they announced it. If you wish to claim that they where being malicious with that announcement, then it is up to you to show proof of that. Also I cannot find anything say that they decided to drop it for any reason in what quotes of the poll I can find. Rather it seen that some poster said that. Note there new virtual table top that is currently in beta testing. Oh wow, I didn't know there was another VT on the way. IF and WHEN they release it I will stand corrected (and quite happy about it since that will definitely make me renew my DDI Account). Malicious may be a harsh word, even though I'm borrowing it from your vocabulary, I do think it was malicious though to offer a service to lure people into buying their product and then never deliver, or deliver 3 or 4 years later. If it is not malicious, it is mediocre, or inept, or incompetent, choose your pick.
#13 calronmoonflower Mar 22, 2011 23:01:37	There is nothing "maliciousness" if they honestly thought that it would be available for the players when they announced it. If you wish to claim that they where being malicious with that announcement, then it is up to you to show proof of that. That statement is ridiculus. He cannot prove they were malicisou like you cannot prove they were not malicious. Your the one putting forth that they acted maliciously therefor it is up to you to supply the proof. The inability do do so doesn't mean that they are innocent of the charge, but rather that you cannot prove it.
#14 Dargurd Mar 23, 2011 0:35:32	World English Dictionary