Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 necrosnoop110 Jun 21, 2008 19:49:04	I got 2 and a half complaints to make directly to WotC. And I am sure countless others have complaints as well. Maybe if enough of us shift our venting from the boards directly to the company we might get some results. My complaints 1) Forum boards (connectivity, downtimes, speed, etc.) 2) DDI (wtf?) 2.5) What was the deal with the Amazon gift set debacle? Who was responsible for that? Amazon? Publisher? WotC? I know that WotC probably isn't fully responsible but if your name is on the product you should oversee what, when, and how others sell your product. I pre-ordered in January and I still do not have my books. Q: How exactly is the best way to go about this? WotC Complaints Contact Information Send WotC an Email Form (I cannot get this option to work and can find no direct email address) WotC Email Form Ring WotC by Phone 1-800-324-6496 (US or Canada) 425-204-8069 (outside of North America) Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST Send WotC a Letter Wizards of the Coast Attn Customer Service PO Box 707 Renton, WA 98057-0707
#2 necrosnoop110 Jun 21, 2008 20:04:02	LINK: How to Write a Complaint Letter (eHow) LINK: Sample Complaint Letter & Email (Consumer Action Handbook)
#3 the_ubbergeek Jun 21, 2008 21:17:20	2.5) What was the deal with the Amazon gift set debacle? Who was responsible for that? Amazon? Publisher? WotC? I know that WotC probably isn't fully responsible but if your name is on the product you should oversee what, when, and how others sell your product. I pre-ordered in January and I still do not have my books. Remember that Amazon and WOTC are TWO different corporations - don't blame WOTC for Amazons's shortcomings please. And present the complains in a respectfull, polite tone, also. Insults, flames and fanrage are rightfully dismissed. Especially when biaised.
#4 necrosnoop110 Jun 21, 2008 22:23:55	Remember that Amazon and WOTC are TWO different corporations - don't blame WOTC for Amazons's shortcomings please. Did you read my post, please? I specifically addressed that in advance. The bit about "I know that WotC probably isn't fully responsible but if your name is on the product you should oversee what, when, and how others sell your product." It's a little bit to close to "hey my dealers sell the drugs I only make them, so I can't be held responsible" the bottom line is you need to oversee how your product is distributed. I only hold WotC partially responsible which is why that bit was only half a complaint. (not to mention when I directly complained to Amazon they basically laughed in my face) Peace, Necro
#5 the_ubbergeek Jun 21, 2008 22:56:06	Well, they can't oversee and watch everything of ANOTHER corporation. So, blame Amazon first. The product is like 'sold' to them first. Buy local, if you must.
#6 apollyonschosen Jun 21, 2008 23:01:16	Yeah, but Wizards didn't supply enough gift sets dude. Alot of people that ordered early did not recieve their merch. Poor co-ordination between supply and demand.
#7 the_ubbergeek Jun 21, 2008 23:11:53	A bit hard to estimate a demand... too much, not enough....
#8 narukagami Jun 21, 2008 23:26:19	Yeah, but Wizards didn't supply enough gift sets dude. Alot of people that ordered early did not recieve their merch. Poor co-ordination between supply and demand. Amazon was also distributing the gift sets they had on a "first come, last serve" basis. Those who ordered their sets back in March were seeing estimated shipping dates in the July-August range, while those who pre-ordered a few days before the release (like me) were getting theirs the next day.
#9 necrosnoop110 Jun 21, 2008 23:45:57	A bit hard to estimate a demand... too much, not enough.... Well ... umm ... for starters they could have had enough supply, at minimum, to cover the demands of all those who pre-ordered, particularly those who pre-ordered 6 months in advance. Yeah, I'd say six months in advance should have been enough time to sort things out, no? Peace, Necro
#10 gizmoiscariot Jun 22, 2008 0:12:28	Well ... umm ... for starters they could have had enough supply, at minimum, to cover the demands of all those who pre-ordered, particularly those who pre-ordered 6 months in advance. Yeah, I'd say six months in advance should have been enough time to sort things out, no? Peace, Necro I agree that this sucked (a friend of mine preordered the gift set and decided to cancel it when he saw the ship dates and went to Barnes and Noble and bought it there). I preordered all three books by themselves from Amazon and got my MM on June 5th and the rest on the 9th. At one point the gift set was number 5 on Amazon. Thats a boat load of sales to get that high. I doubt that Amazon/WOTC expected that many people to get the gift set so they probably didn't make enough. Its hard to gauge reaction to a new product.
#11 farmer42_dup Jun 22, 2008 1:44:33	Well ... umm ... for starters they could have had enough supply, at minimum, to cover the demands of all those who pre-ordered, particularly those who pre-ordered 6 months in advance. Yeah, I'd say six months in advance should have been enough time to sort things out, no? Peace, Necro that's actually a standard problem in many industries that do preorders for popular products. Anyone remember how much of a pain it was to find a copy of Gears of War for the first couple of days? It was so bad, Gamestop actually told some managers to put pre-ordered copies up for sale. And let's look at the nintendo Wii. It's two Gamecubes strapped together with an IR sensor and a hard drive, but they're still impossible to find.
#12 necrosnoop110 Jun 22, 2008 2:13:57	Makes me think of the Car Rental skit from Seinfeld. .
#13 asaris Jun 22, 2008 7:35:02	I'd blame Amazon; they're a big enough retailer that they should have the clout to make sure they have enough product to cover the preorders. And oddly enough, when I sent them a complaint about the gift box, they moved up their delivery date on it by a couple weeks.
#14 Zherog Jun 22, 2008 9:01:43	Send WotC an Email Form (I cannot get this option to work and can find no direct email address) WotC Email Form If you scroll to the bottom of any page, there'll be a "Contact Us" link. This will take you to the Customer Service system (which requires a different login from your forums login, so if you've never been there you need to register). Once you're there, you can go ahead and file your complaints; in theory, somebody in CS will forward it to the proper person, just as they would with the e-mail. I'd recommend a different "ticket" for each complaint.
#15 necrosnoop110 Jun 22, 2008 12:15:03	If you scroll to the bottom of any page, there'll be a "Contact Us" link. This will take you to the Customer Service system (which requires a different login from your forums login, so if you've never been there you need to register). Once you're there, you can go ahead and file your complaints; in theory, somebody in CS will forward it to the proper person, just as they would with the e-mail. I'd recommend a different "ticket" for each complaint. 1) Thank you :D 2) That is soooo utterly and completely lame that it's not the same id and password Cheers, Necro
#16 sebby Jun 22, 2008 13:02:34	Wizards obviously has no control at all over Amazon. Amazon regularly breaks street release dates. When they did it with 4e, it was not their first time with D&D. So, if they don't get preferential treatment from Wizards over the other shops as far as allocating supply to demand is concerned, I'm mighty fine with that. It's bad Amazon's customers get screwed, though (first-come-last-served? WTF?). But hey, that huge discount has its share of risk. If you have a choice, buy local if you want to avoid that.
#17 docrailgun Jun 22, 2008 13:41:31	I also would wager that Wizards only allocated a certain amount to Amazon, to make certain that there would be enough for the various local game stores. After all, AMazon's discount price helps drive the game stores out of business.
#18 necrosnoop110 Jun 22, 2008 15:08:04	Wizards obviously has no control at all over Amazon. Amazon regularly breaks street release dates. When they did it with 4e, it was not their first time with D&D. So, if they don't get preferential treatment from Wizards over the other shops as far as allocating supply to demand is concerned, I'm mighty fine with that. As I've made clear several times, admittedly WotC does not = Amazon but it's wrong to claim that they are two unrelated, adiabatic, unconnected, strangers. WotC has influence with Amazon and could put requests/demands/contracts/etc. on them. To, oh I don't know, treat paying customers with respect and not bait and switch them. It's bad Amazon's customers get screwed, though (first-come-last-served? WTF?). But hey, that huge discount has its share of risk. If you have a choice, buy local if you want to avoid that. I would buy local if the books were quality prints or weren't so overpriced. My group in total bought 4 PHB and in little over a month, with responsible cared-for-use, 2 have smudgy ink and 1 totally fell apart. Peace, Necro
#19 sebby Jun 23, 2008 2:01:06	As I've made clear several times, admittedly WotC does not = Amazon but it's wrong to claim that they are two unrelated, adiabatic, unconnected, strangers. Yes they are. Wizards is *one* of hundreds of suppliers to Amazon. Amazon doesn't give a flying crap about what Wizards thinks. And it shows, because... WotC has influence with Amazon and could put requests/demands/contracts/etc. on them. ...If they did have influence over them, they would not constantly break street release dates on their books. Money talks: Amazon probably just says "We buy a huge assload of books from you, we'll do as we please". To, oh I don't know, treat paying customers with respect and not bait and switch them. Amazon's fault, not Wizards. Again, that's what you get for your money. I would buy local if the books were quality prints or weren't so overpriced. My group in total bought 4 PHB and in little over a month, with responsible cared-for-use, 2 have smudgy ink and 1 totally fell apart. The books are not overpriced. $35 is pretty much what you can be expected to pay for any comparable book. No one is getting rich selling D&D books at retail shops. It is a tough market with few customers. Rich people sell oil, not D&D. I'll give you that the books are fragile, though. The ink I can live with, I am just careful and keep my hands clean. But the glued binding is bad. Some books will fall apart and some will be fine for years. I'd have prefered a stitched-and-glued binding. Look, I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate complaint, but you are not aiming it at the right company. Amazon treated you and many others like shitte, send some back to them.
#20 farmer42_dup Jun 23, 2008 2:34:13	$35 is actually fairly cheap for a CRB, now. Look at the newest Traveller CRB. It's MSRP is $40, and it's smaller than the 4E PHB, had plain paper with black and white print. And as far as Wizards being able to controll Amazon, that's patently false. Retailers have far more control over publishers than vice versa. This is one of the very few valid arguments against large retailers such as Wal-Mart and Amazon. They can more or less dictate prices to companies simply because of their market share of the sales. Sure, WotC can stop selling through Amazon, but I'm willing to be Amazon doesn't give two sticks about whether or not they sell D&D. Because, eventually, WotC will want to deal through them again, since they hit the widest audience.
#21 etarnon Jun 28, 2008 7:22:31	Before you drag Traveller in here, Mongoose Traveller is not the do all and be all of Traveller 5th, which is still in the works, with Much input and participation from the fans, unlike some companies.
#22 necrosnoop110 Jun 28, 2008 8:28:19	And as far as Wizards being able to controll Amazon, that's patently false. Never, ever, ever, ever, said control. However, they do have the potential to influence and coordinate with Amazon. Peace, Necro
#23 apollyonschosen Jun 28, 2008 10:31:54	Wizards obviously has no control at all over Amazon. Amazon regularly breaks street release dates. When they did it with 4e, it was not their first time with D&D. So, if they don't get preferential treatment from Wizards over the other shops as far as allocating supply to demand is concerned, I'm mighty fine with that. It's bad Amazon's customers get screwed, though (first-come-last-served? WTF?). But hey, that huge discount has its share of risk. If you have a choice, buy local if you want to avoid that. I saw it stated by one of the WOTC staff that Amazon did not break the street date. But alot of people had to cover up the fact they had pirated pdf's. Hence the miscnception that Amazon broke the street date, when no real evidence of that was ever put forward. The I have The Books ,ask me qustions come to mind. Funny how Amazon "broke the street date" and the pdf's were uploaded right at the same time....
#24 _Mithreinmaethor_ Jun 28, 2008 12:40:25	I still want to know what the heck you people are eating that you secrete something that smudges the ink. I have had 4 or 5 different people use my books at 3 or 4 gaming sessions (each about 4 to 6 hrs long) and I have not received one smudge or anything.
#25 sebby Jun 28, 2008 15:39:06	Never, ever, ever, ever, said control. However, they do have the potential to influence and coordinate with Amazon. Peace, Necro Necro, by "control", I don't mean "absolute control", I mean, "some measure of control", exactly like what you mean by influence and could coordinate with. And I'm saying Wizards doesn't even have that. It just does not work that way. It's not like Wizards can punish Amazon in any way without hurting themselves in the process. At most, they could chose to fill orders from Amazon after they have filled orders for their other clients. And even that would be risky. Wizards have more to lose than Amazon if Amazon just says "to hell with you, we have a zillion other suppliers". So, who do you think holds the bigger end of the stick here? Who really has influence over the other? Answer: the ones buying.
#26 sebby Jun 28, 2008 15:45:51	I saw it stated by one of the WOTC staff that Amazon did not break the street date. But alot of people had to cover up the fact they had pirated pdf's. Hence the miscnception that Amazon broke the street date, when no real evidence of that was ever put forward. The I have The Books ,ask me qustions come to mind. Funny how Amazon "broke the street date" and the pdf's were uploaded right at the same time.... Who said that, and did he say Amazon never broke street date in the past? All I know is, this was not the first time, and PDFs are not always pirated early. This issue is often brought up at gaming trade shows by FLGS owners who would be put in the doghouse by Wizards if they once broke street date like Amazon sometimes does "by mistake".