It looks like the old criticism & complaint (sorry Concerns & Criticism) board (which had been one of the most active by the way) is closed for business.
I hope this is only temporary because otherwise where will the grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D make their farewell then?
Apparently, we are not allowed to criticize 4th edition anymore.
It looks like the old criticism & complaint board (which had been one of the most active by the way) is closed for business.
I hope this is only temporary because otherwise where will the grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D make their farewell then?
What's preventing you from griping and moaning here? I mean, I am.
Although, if cheap shots at D&D4 like that one are all you've got, your farewell may be sparsely attended.
Apparently, we are not allowed to criticize 4th edition anymore.
It looks like the old criticism & complaint board (which had been one of the most active by the way) is closed for business.
I hope this is only temporary because otherwise where will the grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D make their farewell then?
Concerns & Criticism, man. I think you unintentionally made quite clear what was so wrong with the C&C... ;)
And, if I remember my English right, General Discussion encompasses Concerns and Criticisms and more (even Complaints, if you want them).
Also, the "grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D" are as able to switch to this forum as anyone else, if they still want to participate in Discussions.
The Concerns and Criticisms forum has outlived its usefulness, as nothing that is raised as an issue at this point is in any position to be fixed. The books are at the printers or being shipped around the world.
All WotC did was stop catering to people who got their kicks trolling and flaming those that had the gall to be interested and (gasp) excited about the prospect of a new edition.
There's honestly no reason for them to actively support the undercurrent of negativity that the C&C forums gave a home to. If anything, they were completely within their rights as the corporate owners of that board to kick the haters to the curb and perma-ban anyone who said anything even mildly negative about the new edition.
Closing that forum can only be seen as "silencing" the critics if you ignore the existence of the rest of the internet.
Also, the "grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D" are as able to switch to this forum as anyone else, if they still want to participate in Discussions.
Who knows? Maybe they're SO grognard, they won't even accept the changed forum... ;)
WotC isnt trying to silence critisism (maybe make it a little less obvious at the bottom of the page as the releaase grows close).
Attempting to silence people from complaining ona public forums is an example of futility, like trying to squeeze water from a piece of granite with your bare hands.
Oh and here is a complaint!
this new forum is full of ugly sauce. c'mon lets get something beside ugly outerspace green and puke yellow overlapping purple and grey. This is oogly. Make it like the old ones.
love,
malkav
Apparently, we are not allowed to criticize 4th edition anymore.
It looks like the old criticism & complaint (sorry Concerns & Criticism) board (which had been one of the most active by the way) is closed for business.
I hope this is only temporary because otherwise where will the grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D make their farewell then?
Well, we were wondering when the "WOTC won't let us complain anymore" claim was coming. Here it is.
Who knows? Maybe they're SO grognard, they won't even accept the changed forum... ;)
We can hope.
this new forum is full of ugly sauce. c'mon lets get something beside ugly outerspace green and puke yellow overlapping purple and grey. This is oogly. Make it like the old ones.
Go to the top of the page.
My Account >> Edit My Threadviewing Options
Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page and change the drop down box to "D&D Default" from "Forum Default."
It was the first thing I did when I saw this new scheme. My retinas couldn't take it.
thank you sir
Seconded. Gonna make this forum look purty right now...
thank you sir
Seconded. Gonna make this forum look purty right now...
No problem.
I hate to leave decent people suffering. ;)
No problem.
I hate to leave decent people suffering. ;)
Hmm, there are some other interesting options there. I've settled with the "Parchment and Leather" style.
Most of those threads were the same group of people beating the same old dead horses around. It had a lot of posts, but the content was really stagnant. How many times can someone type "BUT IT'S LIKE WOW OMG MMO"?
Get with it man, you set it as a macro. Press one key, and it gets typed at the touch of a button. :D
Of course, the one-button thing either requires reconfiguration of your keyboard or one better than I own...
Polaris still unbanned?
Myrtlesaur?
Guess what? They've not "silenced" anyone.
How many times can someone type "BUT IT'S LIKE WOW OMG MMO"?
five hundred and seventy-six million, four hundred and twenty two thousand, eight hundred and fifty-six and a half
You do realize that 4e does share many elements with wow right? I wish they would have just stickied a WoW and 4e thread at the top. i had no problems discussion this similarities myself. I find most of the things that WoW and D&D share to be par for the course for modern fantasy entertainment. you take what works and roll with it. You are not allowed after all to copyright a game mechanic.
All that will happen is good things, both MMOs and PnP share a lot of really unique game mechanics, and some of them from both worlds are quite good. forget the sacred cowness, use what works I say.
bung,
malkav
Get with it man, you set it as a macro. Press one key, and it gets typed at the touch of a button. :D
Of course, the one-button thing either requires reconfiguration of your keyboard or one better than I own...
Yeah...but that expensive keyboard* isn't really all it's cracked up to be. I mean, I only like mine because it has back-lit keys and an LCD with a clock in it. I like playing games, surfing the internet, and such...but I like to know what time it is without revealing my task-bar.
* But I have the older one with the flip-out LCD, and 18 customizable keys on the side
TBP
five hundred and seventy-six million, four hundred and twenty two thousand, eight hundred and fifty-six and a half
You do realize that 4e does share many elements with wow right? I wish they would have just stickied a WoW and 4e thread at the top. i had no problems discussion this similarities myself. I find most of the things that WoW and D&D share to be par for the course for modern fantasy entertainment. you take what works and roll with it. You are not allowed after all to copyright a game mechanic.
All that will happen is good things, both MMOs and PnP share a lot of really unique game mechanics, and some of them from both worlds are quite good. forget the sacred cowness, use what works I say.
bung,
malkav
Yeah, and WoW shares a lot of elements with previous D&D editions. It's pretty obvious that there's a lot of crossover. I don't get why people keep harping on it.
Yeah...but that expensive keyboard* isn't really all it's cracked up to be. I mean, I only like mine because it has back-lit keys and an LCD with a clock in it. I like playing games, surfing the internet, and such...but I like to know what time it is without revealing my task-bar.
* But I have the older one with the flip-out LCD, and 18 customizable keys on the side
TBP
I need one of those. Or more games like Civ IV, that have a "show clock" option...
No problem.
I hate to leave decent people suffering. ;)
Thanks, man. That was a mitzvah.
I experimented, but "D&D Default" still looks the nicest.
I have no idea what they were thinking with the "purple and lime green" scheme. Maybe it was one of those diversity things: "Let's let the color-blind guy design the skin. He never gets to design anything!"
Yeah, and WoW shares a lot of elements with previous D&D editions. It's pretty obvious that there's a lot of crossover. I don't get why people keep harping on it.
Well my friend, its really all quite simple. Its kind of hard to explain but I think this link on appropriate forum bahaviour sums up all the bad forum bahaviors that make this forum exactly like every other forum
It even has helpful tips for how not to be a forum prick. How to behave on Internet forums (NSFW there are a few swear words)
Have a great day
Well my friend, its really all quite simple. Its kind of hard to explain but I think this link on appropriate forum bahaviour sums up all the bad forum bahaviors that make this forum exactly like every other forum
How to behave on Internet forums (NSFW there are a few swear words)
Have a great day
Hahaha. Thank you for this informative film. I feel enlightened. :D
Thanks, man. That was a mitzvah.
I experimented, but "D&D Default" still looks the nicest.
I have no idea what they were thinking with the "purple and lime green" scheme. Maybe it was one of those diversity things: "Let's let the color-blind guy design the skin. He never gets to design anything!"
I propose they change the name of the default skin from Gleemax 2.0 to Ultrafugly.
If you have something to say, say it. Note that just like back during the C&C days, your something to say will be responded to by other people who may or may not share your view.
Repeat the following statement:
I do what I want!
Feel better?
Apparently, we are not allowed to criticize 4th edition anymore.
It looks like the old criticism & complaint (sorry Concerns & Criticism) board (which had been one of the most active by the way) is closed for business.
I hope this is only temporary because otherwise where will the grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D make their farewell then?
Actually, the OP is correct. No one is allowed to criticize 4e anymore.
Shhhhh! Don't tell them the truth.
Go to the top of the page.
My Account >> Edit My Threadviewing Options
Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page and change the drop down box to "D&D Default" from "Forum Default."
It was the first thing I did when I saw this new scheme. My retinas couldn't take it.
you are now y personal hero
Oh and here is a complaint!
this new forum is full of ugly sauce. c'mon lets get something beside ugly outerspace green and puke yellow overlapping purple and grey. This is oogly. Make it like the old ones.
The Gleemax forum layout (and Gleemax website layout in general) is very ugly, I imagine most would agree. Whoever designed them has no sense of taste. :P
you are now y personal hero
Glad I could help.
Man, my admirers are getting so numerous, it's hard to keep track. Somebody should really start a fanclub. ;)
Glad I could help.
Man, my admirers are getting so numerous, it's hard to keep track. Somebody should really start a fanclub. ;)
By "fanclub" do you mean "a group of people beating me up with pointy sticks"? I could do that. :P
He also got not sense of colour at all.
As the resident colorblind lurker, I'm hopy to inform you that this new colors cheme is remarkably ugly even for the color-challenged.
(... just kidding.)
Back in my day, before all the twelve year olds started complaining, we had a perfectly good complaining board. Now there's this new board, "General Di$cu$$ion", which is a total rip off of the WoW boards. Can WOCT possibly cater towards anime fanboys any more? This new board is blue and the old one was brown. I know someone who plays the Nintendo Xbox and big surprise: they have a forum called "General Discussion" too. Coincidence? I'm sure $e fanboys think so. ROFL. Just like it's pure coincidence that the Halo boards and this one both have a green font near the top. In the last board, there was a dark brown font, and everyone thought it was fine. What's next? Changing all the words into pictures of Dragonball Z? This is the worst move WotC has ever made. You've effectively cut off 95% of your posters, and none of us are ever posting again. I'm done with this board forever. Goodbye.
Good riddance! In fact! Let me help you on your way out!
*retrieves pitchfork, torch*
(... just kidding.)
...
...
*shin!*
;)
Do you think that WoTC...disappeared them? Be careful Dopplegangster, Myrtlesaur and Tabula Rasa....YOU may be next
And remember kids...you can't spell "R4PE" without "4E" and other such rhetorical hate-slogans!
As the resident colorblind lurker, I'm hopy to inform you that this new colors cheme is remarkably ugly even for the color-challenged.
As another color blind poster I must agree with this statement.
I am not Barack Obama, but I do support this message.
Back in my day, before all the twelve year olds started complaining, we had a perfectly good complaining board. Now there's this new board, "General Di$cu$$ion", which is a total rip off of the WoW boards. Can WOCT possibly cater towards anime fanboys any more? This new board is blue and the old one was brown. I know someone who plays the Nintendo Xbox and big surprise: they have a forum called "General Discussion" too. Coincidence? I'm sure $e fanboys think so. ROFL. Just like it's pure coincidence that the Halo boards and this one both have a green font near the top. In the last board, there was a dark brown font, and everyone thought it was fine. What's next? Changing all the words into pictures of Dragonball Z? This is the worst move WotC has ever made. You've effectively cut off 95% of your posters, and none of us are ever posting again. I'm done with this board forever. Goodbye.
(... just kidding.)
Nice.
Apparently, PsionX tried to post here...and got his post punted to the off-topic Tavern. I haven't seen P_R or his sockpuppets for quite a while longer, though...
The identity Psychic_Robot was banned over a month ago. His most recent new identity has posted on the D&D General Discussion Forum.
I am very dissatisfied with their attitudes, and will make it known other places in the hopes of causing a loss of sales to them if they want to disrupt decent discussions for the sake of their bottom line. A total lack of respect for forums is all that it is.
Well no wonder a couple of good discussions about D^D philosophies in general have had not responses in a while. They moved them to a locked forum. With 4th edition only 17 days away they don't want anyone to chance making a stink about something, they only allow people to kiss WotCs butt and praise them. They just caused a very uncivil feeling for this entire place.
I am very dissatisfied with their attitudes, and will make it known other places in the hopes of causing a los of sales to them if they want to disrupt decent discussions for the sake of their bottom line. A total lack of respect for forums is all that it is.
I think that the big decision members of WoTC should be sainted. Even those that aren't Catholic.
Apparently, we are not allowed to criticize 4th edition anymore.
It looks like the old criticism & complaint (sorry Concerns & Criticism) board (which had been one of the most active by the way) is closed for business.
I hope this is only temporary because otherwise where will the grognards not switching to the best ever edition of D&D make their farewell then?
Okay enouugh with using insulting terms like grognard to refer to people who happen to not like 4th edition!
Wizards, your policies are continually becoming more Soviet-like.
If you can't take any kind of criticism from your customers, you will fail as a company. Don't be fools, you will begin to lose profits if you start silencing people who refuse to Kowtow and buttkiss.
I am very dissatisfied with their attitudes, and will make it known other places in the hopes of causing a loss of sales to them
You really think an unrelated entity being annoying on other boards will hurt WotC's sales?
Really, so far the thing that's caused me the most ill will toward WotC's has been CM's bungling when it comes to people being disruptive on the forums and if (and it's a big if since not has really changed except the forums these guys disrupt), IF they started acting like admins for major forums should and dealing with the flame bait and fixing the CoC, that would be a check int heir 'done good' box for me.
You really think an unrelated entity being annoying on other boards will hurt WotC's sales?
Really, so far the thing that's caused me the most ill will toward WotC's has been CM's bungling when it comes to people being disruptive on the forums and if (and it's a big if since not has really changed except the forums these guys disrupt), IF they started acting like admins for major forums should and dealing with the flame bait and fixing the CoC, that would be a check int heir 'done good' box for me.
In addition, the fact that WotC doesn't admin these forums in a satisfactory manner dealing with things like this prompts non-admin members to take matters into their own hands, leading to ongoing flame fests.
The majority of the critics are simply complaining.
- Some don't like the idea that a 4e is coming out. Fine. Don't buy it.
- Some don't like what they saw in a preview. Fine. Don't buy the books until you see if the preview is an accurate representation of 4e.
- Some don't like change. Too bad.
WotC is making a 4e.
It is going to launch.
Change happens.
So to majority of those who are currently offering empty criticism, I concur with the apparent response they have been receiving. Having 1/4th of the posts on the front page of the general Board be gripes about changes to the Boards (and then even more gripes when those gripes appropriately get moved to the Boards Business board) makes me even less sympathetic to the complainers.
When 4e comes out, see if you like it. Or don't. Let your dollars do your talking. But please stop letting your keyboard do the talking. Your heart can't take the pressure.
If the critics were actually offering a critique of the game I might have some sympathy for the seemingly "shut the hell up" feedback they are receiving. But very few people offering any informed negative feedback. They might have read a preview article, but it appears that very few complaints are about a specific mechanic. Rather, the complaints are simply about the existence of a 4th edition -- a general fear of change.
Porse Spit!
It has nothing to do with a fear of change. Older editions are in no way changing. The problem is change for the sake of change for some, a complete dislike for the philosophies of 4th edition for others, and some just really seem to not like the ideas put forth from the articles.
If you actually look at some of the negative feedback you will get an idea of what the game means to some people. This is the most valuable thing you could get, be it positive or negative, is actually what people fel about the game.
It was said "you will love it", but they have been proven wrong. Not every does. So they should ask themselves "why?"
Is it the presentation of the material in the articles?
It is the material being presented itself?
It it the actual edition?
Counter that against those who like the changes and you will see what people really think about it. From there you can go to find out what they did prior to 4th edition and which versions they prefered, and why they didn't play others?
Once you know your customer, then you can figure out what they want from the game.
All the negative feedback has done it let WotC get to know its customer. It its customer is just a grumpy old codger, then that is the person they need to make the game for. If it is someone who will blindly accept all change for the sake of change, then that is the game they need to make for that customer.
If it is s conbination, then they need to make a game for both, or two games, one for each.....
Dismissing feedback because you don't like that it disagrees with your own opinon is not accepting feedback at all.
(no wonder Cerebral Hobbies closed down.)
Porse Spit!
It has nothing to do with a fear of change. Older editions are in no way changing. The problem is change for the sake of change for some, a complete dislike for the philosophies of 4th edition for others, and some just really seem to not like the ideas put forth from the articles.
If you actually look at some of the negative feedback you will get an idea of what the game means to some people. This is the most valuable thing you could get, be it positive or negative, is actually what people fel about the game.
It was said "you will love it", but they have been proven wrong. Not every does. So they should ask themselves "why?"
Is it the presentation of the material in the articles?
It is the material being presented itself?
It it the actual edition?
Counter that against those who like the changes and you will see what people really think about it. From there you can go to find out what they did prior to 4th edition and which versions they prefered, and why they didn't play others?
Once you know your customer, then you can figure out what they want from the game.
All the negative feedback has done it let WotC get to know its customer. It its customer is just a grumpy old codger, then that is the person they need to make the game for. If it is someone who will blindly accept all change for the sake of change, then that is the game they need to make for that customer.
If it is s conbination, then they need to make a game for both, or two games, one for each.....
Dismissing feedback because you don't like that it disagrees with your own opinon is not accepting feedback at all.
(no wonder Cerebral Hobbies closed down.)
WotC has done its research, and have decided that the best way to move forward was to produce 4E as it is now and make people like you angry. Its best to come to terms with that fact, as nothing is really going to change it at this point.
Porse Spit!
It has nothing to do with a fear of change.
The rest of your post contradicts this claim.
Older editions are in no way changing.
Exactly. So those who love 3e/3.5 (or any other older edition) have nothing to complain about. The edition they love is not changing.
The problem is change for the sake of change for some, a complete dislike for the philosophies of 4th edition for others, and some just really seem to not like the ideas put forth from the articles.
Exactly. Some dislike the very idea of a change in general. Some dislike the idea of a 4th edition. And some hate the specific changes.
The actual content of any given complaint is detached from the actual game, since very few people have actually seen 4e, and even fewer have played it.
And the reason Cerebral Hobbies went out of business is because the owners loved gaming more than they loved business.
That there will be problems is inevitable: The number of developers and playtesters is tiny compared to the total number of people who will be playing. Some product problems can only be found on after-market analyisis. But there were problems with every edition and WotC remains the Microsoft of tabletop gaming systems.
Anyone who spent a lot of time here knows that change was coming to the forums. This information was mentioned in many threads, including several on the C&C board. Describing this change as an "anti-criticism" move is a bizarre act of denial. It's a reorganization of which we all had ample warning. Post your thoughts, be civil, and please just remain calm about the new forums.
People who use "silenced" to mean "not given a soapbox on which to speak".
This is my least favorite form of entitlement. The Constitution guarantees your right to *speak*, but neither it nor statutory law nor common business ethics nor common decent human politeness *requires* anyone to hand you a medium and an audience.
Especially, no business or organization has the *responsibility* to let you badmouth it on its own webspace, and importuning them for that "right" just makes you out to be even more of an unsympathetic jerk.
(The big irony is that there is no Paizo "Concerns and Criticisms" forum for people to denounce Pathfinder RPG, and, in fact, AFAICT usernames that show up there breathing a hint of "PAIZO SUCKS" get swiftly moderated out of existence. WotC has really been kind of pathologically nice to its critics by comparison.)
Well it is a case of your damned if you do your damned if you don't. Heck look at this post WOTC is probably the nicest of all the companies at dealing with its detractors and they still get attacked.
On the big list of my general pet peeves there is one item circled and underlined in red ink:
People who use "silenced" to mean "not given a soapbox on which to speak".
This is my least favorite form of entitlement. The Constitution guarantees your right to *speak*, but neither it nor statutory law nor common business ethics nor common decent human politeness *requires* anyone to hand you a medium and an audience.
Especially, no business or organization has the *responsibility* to let you badmouth it on its own webspace, and importuning them for that "right" just makes you out to be even more of an unsympathetic jerk.
At least this OP didn't use the word "censorship" or try to act like it was a 1st amendment issue. He just popped up to complain that he is somehow not being allowed to complain.
Go to the top of the page.
My Account >> Edit My Threadviewing Options
Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page and change the drop down box to "D&D Default" from "Forum Default."
It was the first thing I did when I saw this new scheme. My retinas couldn't take it.
Pink is a good skin to use. It makes everything feel so mellow...