4th Ed Reboot And Manual of the Planes - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4th Ed Reboot And Manual of the Planes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Zardnaar
Dec 21, 2008 18:51:42 From the look of it Dark Sun will be sing the World Axis cosmology when it is finally released for 4th ed. In essence it will only be based on the old Dark Sun.

Is it worth doing our own reboot for people who don't want to go with a WoTC version? They haven't done so well with 4th ed conversions of FR and Planescape/the planes IMHO which were basicaly based on previous material.
#2
flindbar
Dec 22, 2008 9:39:38

After having read the previous 4e will there / won't there threads........

Do we know for certain that there will be a DS 4e ?
Either WotC or Athas.org ??

#3
suin_bahhar_02
Dec 22, 2008 12:43:20 Would Athas even have a Feywild? I could imagine this would be rather difficult to blend into Darksun's bleak and shattered ecosystem theme. Perhaps Athas' Feywild got sundered?
#4
Zardnaar
Dec 22, 2008 13:52:27 4th ed DS will be using the world axis cosmology so yes it will have a Feywild.

Like it or not the old cosmology will be gone. Personally I would have a 4th ed game set after Dregoth Ascending as perhaps Dregoths ritual failed but changd the nature of the planes or disolved the Gray and put Athas into the World Axis cosmology.

At the end of Dregoths ascending cleric spells stopped working for a bit. Perhaps it was because the old elemental planes were gone and it will take time for the Clerics to figure out how to access their spells from the elemental chaos. The Hollow could become a dominon somewhere in the Astral sea with Rajaat in it somewhere.

Also perhaps Athas had no divine magic as the world was going to be a hide away for a primordial lord after their defeat by the gods. perhaps something went wrong and the Spirits of the Land were once primordials or maybe the big bad primordial became the Dark lens.

Or pretend the old cosmology didn't exist. I'm thinking of retcon ideas for Darksun that is all.
#5
suin_bahhar_02
Dec 22, 2008 14:09:12 Still, the few difining features could be used to still capture the different flavour Athas has.
One can imagine Athas might actually drifts in the Elemental Chaos, and is therefore cut of from usual Astral domains. A Feywild and Shadowfell reflection might still exist then though. Perhaps this would mean there the divine powersource would have to be replaced by the primal powersource. The Prriomordials would have their little microcosm of worshippers who are clueless there are mightier being out there.

I think interesting results can be had when a world has profound mechanical changes. Athas used to have a rather different powerstructure, with magic actually draining and subsequently dangerous, psionics widespread etc...
#6
Zardnaar
Dec 22, 2008 14:46:10 4th ed seems to be going for a one size fits all philosophy. Athas may even drift in the Astral Sea and in effect be some kind of planet sized and shaped demiplane.
#7
eldritch_lord
Dec 22, 2008 15:54:37
Would Athas even have a Feywild? I could imagine this would be rather difficult to blend into Darksun's bleak and shattered ecosystem theme. Perhaps Athas' Feywild got sundered?

Perhaps as Athas was dying, some powerful [insert plot device race/class here]s were able to move some of the the living plants and creatures on the Prime to an alternate world; basically, it's Athas as it could have been, and how it used to be. That's about the only way I can see them justifying having a lush, living, fertile world lying right next door (metaphysically speaking) to the desert that is Athas...unless they significantly changed the Feywild, which would defeat the whole purpose of shoehorning the base cosmology into Dark Sun.
#8
Zardnaar
Dec 22, 2008 16:46:38 As I said I think the 4th ed DS is only going to resemble the 2nd ed one in name only. In effect it will be a very different beast. Personally I think I will use the new cosmology as a side effect of Dregoths failed ascension. If the divine power source does work on Athas it is a new development.

Sorcerer Kings would be on par with some of the 4th ed Archfiends. Borys would be level 34 or 35 or so. The other Sorcerer kings would probably fall back to level 21-15 or so. All of them would be solo monster though.
#9
mouthymerc
Dec 22, 2008 23:44:41
Do we know for certain that there will be a DS 4e ?
Either WotC or Athas.org ??

Nothing is ever certain, but Athas was mentioned in the Manual of the Planes. This gives me hope that they are considering it for updating to 4E.
#10
jovis70
Dec 23, 2008 21:51:27 It occurred to me when I was reading the Manual of the planes.
what if it was flipped what if in the war between the gods and the primordials
the primordials won and that the Astral sea was filled with empty domains

lets look at it this way, on Athas the clerics were all about worshipping the elements.

The feywild could be protected land of sorts
Instead of the Raven Queen you could have Dregoth or he could have taken over.
Just a thought.
Jovis
#11
pholtus
Dec 27, 2008 3:08:18
Would Athas even have a Feywild? I could imagine this would be rather difficult to blend into Darksun's bleak and shattered ecosystem theme. Perhaps Athas' Feywild got sundered?

The Feywild could end up being the Gray- I BLEAK destroyed and (mostly?? Forest Maker??) empty version of the Feywild.

The Black would turn into Shadowfell.

Personally I hope they drop the Astral Sea for Darksun - if they do it. Replacing it with the Elemental Chaos both above and below the world .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Dec 21, 2008 18:51:42	From the look of it Dark Sun will be sing the World Axis cosmology when it is finally released for 4th ed. In essence it will only be based on the old Dark Sun. Is it worth doing our own reboot for people who don't want to go with a WoTC version? They haven't done so well with 4th ed conversions of FR and Planescape/the planes IMHO which were basicaly based on previous material.
#2 flindbar Dec 22, 2008 9:39:38	After having read the previous 4e will there / won't there threads........ Do we know for certain that there will be a DS 4e ? Either WotC or Athas.org ??
#3 suin_bahhar_02 Dec 22, 2008 12:43:20	Would Athas even have a Feywild? I could imagine this would be rather difficult to blend into Darksun's bleak and shattered ecosystem theme. Perhaps Athas' Feywild got sundered?
#4 Zardnaar Dec 22, 2008 13:52:27	4th ed DS will be using the world axis cosmology so yes it will have a Feywild. Like it or not the old cosmology will be gone. Personally I would have a 4th ed game set after Dregoth Ascending as perhaps Dregoths ritual failed but changd the nature of the planes or disolved the Gray and put Athas into the World Axis cosmology. At the end of Dregoths ascending cleric spells stopped working for a bit. Perhaps it was because the old elemental planes were gone and it will take time for the Clerics to figure out how to access their spells from the elemental chaos. The Hollow could become a dominon somewhere in the Astral sea with Rajaat in it somewhere. Also perhaps Athas had no divine magic as the world was going to be a hide away for a primordial lord after their defeat by the gods. perhaps something went wrong and the Spirits of the Land were once primordials or maybe the big bad primordial became the Dark lens. Or pretend the old cosmology didn't exist. I'm thinking of retcon ideas for Darksun that is all.
#5 suin_bahhar_02 Dec 22, 2008 14:09:12	Still, the few difining features could be used to still capture the different flavour Athas has. One can imagine Athas might actually drifts in the Elemental Chaos, and is therefore cut of from usual Astral domains. A Feywild and Shadowfell reflection might still exist then though. Perhaps this would mean there the divine powersource would have to be replaced by the primal powersource. The Prriomordials would have their little microcosm of worshippers who are clueless there are mightier being out there. I think interesting results can be had when a world has profound mechanical changes. Athas used to have a rather different powerstructure, with magic actually draining and subsequently dangerous, psionics widespread etc...
#6 Zardnaar Dec 22, 2008 14:46:10	4th ed seems to be going for a one size fits all philosophy. Athas may even drift in the Astral Sea and in effect be some kind of planet sized and shaped demiplane.
#7 eldritch_lord Dec 22, 2008 15:54:37	Would Athas even have a Feywild? I could imagine this would be rather difficult to blend into Darksun's bleak and shattered ecosystem theme. Perhaps Athas' Feywild got sundered? Perhaps as Athas was dying, some powerful [insert plot device race/class here]s were able to move some of the the living plants and creatures on the Prime to an alternate world; basically, it's Athas as it could have been, and how it used to be. That's about the only way I can see them justifying having a lush, living, fertile world lying right next door (metaphysically speaking) to the desert that is Athas...unless they significantly changed the Feywild, which would defeat the whole purpose of shoehorning the base cosmology into Dark Sun.
#8 Zardnaar Dec 22, 2008 16:46:38	As I said I think the 4th ed DS is only going to resemble the 2nd ed one in name only. In effect it will be a very different beast. Personally I think I will use the new cosmology as a side effect of Dregoths failed ascension. If the divine power source does work on Athas it is a new development. Sorcerer Kings would be on par with some of the 4th ed Archfiends. Borys would be level 34 or 35 or so. The other Sorcerer kings would probably fall back to level 21-15 or so. All of them would be solo monster though.
#9 mouthymerc Dec 22, 2008 23:44:41	Do we know for certain that there will be a DS 4e ? Either WotC or Athas.org ?? Nothing is ever certain, but Athas was mentioned in the Manual of the Planes. This gives me hope that they are considering it for updating to 4E.
#10 jovis70 Dec 23, 2008 21:51:27	It occurred to me when I was reading the Manual of the planes. what if it was flipped what if in the war between the gods and the primordials the primordials won and that the Astral sea was filled with empty domains lets look at it this way, on Athas the clerics were all about worshipping the elements. The feywild could be protected land of sorts Instead of the Raven Queen you could have Dregoth or he could have taken over. Just a thought. Jovis
#11 pholtus Dec 27, 2008 3:08:18	Would Athas even have a Feywild? I could imagine this would be rather difficult to blend into Darksun's bleak and shattered ecosystem theme. Perhaps Athas' Feywild got sundered? The Feywild could end up being the Gray- I BLEAK destroyed and (mostly?? Forest Maker??) empty version of the Feywild. The Black would turn into Shadowfell. Personally I hope they drop the Astral Sea for Darksun - if they do it. Replacing it with the Elemental Chaos both above and below the world .