Today, I'm concerned about maintaining Dark Sun's "Low Magic" feel, specifically as it pertains to magical items. I have a couple of questions.
1) Let's say I'm starting a game at level 12. Standard chargen rules say my players get three freebie magic items at level 11, 12 and 13, and 9,000gp to spend on more magical items. That's more than a few magic items. How do you people handle this? Just let them have it, or make them have less (perhaps just one freebie magic item up to level 15 of their choice + 9,000gp), or give them nothing at all? Some other option?
2) Handing out treasure. Standard treasure parcels say the party gets four magic items per level. Should I cut it down (to like, two?) or maybe eliminate them altogether with only a few being handed out every so often?
I'm something of a monty haul DM, I admit. I like giving players items, and I like them to be excited about it, and I like doing 'alternate' rewards. So I dunno, I'm just looking to see what other DMs have done in this regard.
Thanks in advance.
The most important aspect of the game is a great story and the details can really make the game. The DM game mechanics will come with more experience.
If you are DMing a group of more experienced players, then they would be able to help you work through the game mechanics. As you get experience it will become more natural.
Since you like doing the Monty Haul style DMing, then you should be take more time to think about what you hand out to your players.
1. Give a monetary value to the alternate rewards. The value should be based on how much you perceive it's worth. That way you can justify what you give to the players since that will take away from the overall value. This is very subjective since you can assign a reward any value you want.
2. Use bits instead of whole ceramic pieces. This will reduce the overall total value of what you hand out. For example if you would normally give out 100gp, then give out 100 gold bits. The actual value is only worth 10gp.
Hey guys. I'm sort of a newbie at the DM game. I love making stories, and if I may toot my own horn I'm not too bad at it, but what I lack is knowledge of game mechanics and how to handle certain situations.
Today, I'm concerned about maintaining Dark Sun's "Low Magic" feel, specifically as it pertains to magical items. I have a couple of questions.
1) Let's say I'm starting a game at level 12. Standard chargen rules say my players get three freebie magic items at level 11, 12 and 13, and 9,000gp to spend on more magical items. That's more than a few magic items. How do you people handle this? Just let them have it, or make them have less (perhaps just one freebie magic item up to level 15 of their choice + 9,000gp), or give them nothing at all? Some other option?
2) Handing out treasure. Standard treasure parcels say the party gets four magic items per level. Should I cut it down (to like, two?) or maybe eliminate them altogether with only a few being handed out every so often?
I'm something of a monty haul DM, I admit. I like giving players items, and I like them to be excited about it, and I like doing 'alternate' rewards. So I dunno, I'm just looking to see what other DMs have done in this regard.
Thanks in advance.
One of the great things about inherent bonuses is that you shouldn't worry so much about the mathematical need for impressive items. There are still magic items in Dark Sun, mind you - but they shouldn't be quite as prevalent, excepting artifacts (which seem to be rather abundant in the fiction).
I'd definitely scale back on the number of items starting characters get, if you're worried about preserving the low-magic feel. I'd probably let them pick one item of Level 13 or lower, choose one item or alternative reward of Level 12 or lower once they give you a character background, and let them buy maybe 1,000 ceramic worth of other equipment.
The real headache comes when you're trying to figure out how inherent bonuses mesh with the characters' actual items. That's a doozy.
I like giving my players items, too, and it's fine. Honestly. Just start them out with less, and they'll appreciate the items they get even more.
-O
What to do with so much gold? For starters they'd want their survival days, caravan fare, guard-bribing, slave-buying [if they want], information-gathering, equipment repairs, and other things you might consider for their use.
As for handing out treasure, see Inherent Bonuses info from DMG2, p. 138:
Parcels: Remove the highest- and lowest-level magic item parcels from each level of treasure you hand out. You can dole out fewer magic items because the PCs do not need those items to boost their attacks and defenses.
I'd add to this that you could use Reputation, Grandmaster Training, and even -- if you have deities trying to resurface from their defeat and (near-total?) extermination -- Divine Boons, instead of magical weapons and armor, as well as artifacts and other magical items
boon of a wandering pyreen, boon of a nascent avangion, boon from the Great Wanderer himself.
boon of an elemental, boon of a primordial (maybe), boon of the primal chaos itself (the plane).
boon of a spirit of the land. or go the other way, boon of a sorcerer-king, boon of The Dragon.
food for thought.
I read in another thread that someone basically just dropped the enhancement bonus from all items. So a Staggering Weapon would just be a Staggering Weapon and nothing else.
For the critical damage die, I would take the value presented and just make that the die you use, with the number of dice determined by your inherent bonus.
For instance, a character wielding a Vicious Weapon at level 12 would have +3d12. That weapon would 'level' with them, and when their inherent bonus to attack raised to +4, they'd start doing +4d12.
Anyway, I think I'm set pretty well. I really appreciate the help!
These are all excellent ideas! I thank you guys for your input.
I read in another thread that someone basically just dropped the enhancement bonus from all items. So a Staggering Weapon would just be a Staggering Weapon and nothing else.
For the critical damage die, I would take the value presented and just make that the die you use, with the number of dice determined by your inherent bonus.
For instance, a character wielding a Vicious Weapon at level 12 would have +3d12. That weapon would 'level' with them, and when their inherent bonus to attack raised to +4, they'd start doing +4d12.
Anyway, I think I'm set pretty well. I really appreciate the help!
I actually considered this before, but then I realized one potential problem: Dual Implement Spellcaster.
With two implements, that could easily double the static damage from enhancement bonus, or the feat would effectively be useless due to lack of enhancement bonuses.
Also, for me the removal of enhancement bonuses makes the item quality much less apparent, since with the Dark Sun campaign, as there are different levels in enhancement, so are there different types of metallic (magical) equipment, from Copper to Bronze to Iron to Steel (and all other sorts of metals in-between) that emphasize both rarity and power; story-wise a warrior with even a Copper blade (maybe just +1) would be looked at far differently from someone with a heavily enchanted (+4) bone weapon [although the power there would be much more distinct during combat].
Keeping the enhancement bonuses also makes a +1 Vicious Weapon far more valuable mechanically, even if they're level 15 and it's still doing only +1d12 on a crit (+3d12 if it's an Execution Axe or a Fullblade, due to High Crit) instead of +3d12 (+5d12 with Execution Axe or a Fullblade), because it's the only weapon out there that's actually granting the 1d12 bonus on a crit.
Myself, I'd just make your enhancement bonus = inherent bonus. So if you had +3 inherent bonus, a Staff of Ruin would grant +3 item bonus. Same with Dual Implement Spellcaster, +3 inherent would mean +6 bonus to damage.
The point you make with the materials is a good one, but an idea that has occured to me just now was that the materials could still be fit into the weapon, if you decide to play with weapon breakage rules. Specifically the permissive one, where if you roll a 1 on an attack you can choose to reroll the attack, but the weapon breaks. But having a higher quality material weapon lets you play a little more with that rule.
Tier 1 (Bone, Wood, Stone, etc) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon breaks, even if the second roll hits.
Tier 2 (Copper) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon breaks on a roll of 1-10, even if the second roll hits.
Tier 3 (Iron/Steel) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon breaks on a roll of 1-5, even if the second roll hits.
Tier 4 (Unobtainium) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon only breaks on a roll of 1.
Tier 5 (Godsteel or whatever) - You can reroll an attack roll at any time and the weapon only breaks on a 1.
Maybe not exactly like that, but you get my drift, I think. Having a special 'metal' weapon like that still gives you benefits, and is now divorced from the enhancement bonus.
Not that I disagree with what you're saying, chaosfang, you have good points. But at this point, I think the best idea is just to ask what the players want, and hammer out the fine points with them, and see if they want enhancement bonuses removed or what.
Hm... that's true. Plus there's all those item bonuses based on enhancement bonuses, for instance the Staff of Ruin granting an item bonus to damage based on the enhancement bonus.
Myself, I'd just make your enhancement bonus = inherent bonus. So if you had +3 inherent bonus, a Staff of Ruin would grant +3 item bonus. Same with Dual Implement Spellcaster, +3 inherent would mean +6 bonus to damage.
That's exactly what I wanted to avoid, because of the power creep it'd easily entail. A Staff of Ruin with a Magic Wand (assuming +3 inherent bonus) is easily +9 damage (3 item, 3 enhancement/inherent, 3 dual implement), without even trying and assuming that the players start at higher level, and the bonuses keep on improving. Perhaps it'd be fun, but as I DM LFR, it's a persistent problem trying to challenge my players who have all sorts of magical equipment on top of their inherent capabilities; making it easier for them to do that much damage without even trying seems a bit wanting on my part.
Besides, what makes items "magical" wouldn't be the "math fixes", but rather their other abilities (crit dice, properties, powers, or what not), and I'd rather have that preserved or enhanced, which is why I'm more of alternative rewards, as listed in the DMG2 (Divine Boons, item crafting, Grandmaster Training, etc.), and keeping the enhancement bonuses [as a +1 Magic Longsword -- reflavored as a Masterwork Longsword -- would still be more beneficial mechanically even at level 11 than a mundane Longsword at that level, and if the player wants to enhance his Masterwork Longsword's crit dice, he could look for a smith who can sharpen the blade and enforce it (at most up to +3 or 3d6), and then later on he could have it (re)enchanted so that it's no longer a Masterwork Longsword (+3) but a Vicious Longsword (+4) or something to that degree].
The point you make with the materials is a good one, but an idea that has occured to me just now was that the materials could still be fit into the weapon, if you decide to play with weapon breakage rules. Specifically the permissive one, where if you roll a 1 on an attack you can choose to reroll the attack, but the weapon breaks. But having a higher quality material weapon lets you play a little more with that rule.
Tier 1 (Bone, Wood, Stone, etc) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon breaks, even if the second roll hits.
Tier 2 (Copper) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon breaks on a roll of 1-10, even if the second roll hits.
Tier 3 (Iron/Steel) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon breaks on a roll of 1-5, even if the second roll hits.
Tier 4 (Unobtainium) - If you roll a 1 and choose to reroll, the weapon only breaks on a roll of 1.
Tier 5 (Godsteel or whatever) - You can reroll an attack roll at any time and the weapon only breaks on a 1.
Maybe not exactly like that, but you get my drift, I think. Having a special 'metal' weapon like that still gives you benefits, and is now divorced from the enhancement bonus.
Not that I disagree with what you're saying, chaosfang, you have good points. But at this point, I think the best idea is just to ask what the players want, and hammer out the fine points with them, and see if they want enhancement bonuses removed or what.
The default weapon breakage rules -- auto-break if non-metal + reroll, break on a reroll of 5 or lower if metal -- seems fair enough, since metal in any quantity is considered a rarity. I'm actually considering a heavy armor houserule: if you're willing to have your armor take the full brunt of the force, you can force the enemy to make a reroll. The main problem, of course, is that it'll leave you armorless for the rest of the encounter, but it's an option I'd like to keep open to players