This is the rationale for having the Templar as a PrC. 2nd edition had to have Templar as a standard base class because there was no other mechanical way to implement it. 3rd edition gives us much more options, and using a PrC instead of a base class for the Templar keeps us much closer to the flavour of the Templar.
Let me post a brief excerpt from the original boxed set, and it will all come into perspective.
Templar
Ability Requirements: Wisdom 3
Intelligence 10
Prime Requisite: Wisdom
Races Allowed: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-elf
Templars are the greatly feared disciples of the sorcerer-kings. Their organization is steeped in ancient tradition and treacherous politics, and the work they perform for the sorcerer-kings is governed by endless bureaucracy. To city dwellers, the templars are the enforcers of the sorcerer-king’s will, allowed to run rampant, enforcing the local edicts with painstaking indifference, doling out punishment or even execution with the sorcerer-king’s blessing. An organization of wicked men looking out for their own wealth and power, the templars are overrun with corruption to the highest level -the sorcerer-kings generally turn a blind eye to bribery and scandal among the templars, provided terror is maintained among their subject populations.
Templars gain levels as do clerics, but their spell progression at low levels is slower. At 15th level, though, the progression increases drastically as the character enters the upper ranks of the templar hierarchy. At the highest levels, templars have more spells available to them than clerics of the same level.
(The rest is in JPG)
My comments - Templars do not get any spells on their first level in second edition, and it says that templars are initially trained as warriors, which suggests to me that there is a system of junior templars, those that have not taken levels in the templar class, and in the case of the 3rd edition, the Templar PrC. Therefore there are templars without secular authority, usually one of the warrior classes but perhaps of some other classes like rogue, bard or psion (bards might do especially well as a backstabbing templar), that go through a training period where they are used as muscle by members of the Templar PrC that have secular authority. They can be called junior templars and are members of the templarate until they have the stats to qualify for the Templar PrC. In any event, having the Templar as a PrC enables us to emulate the way templars do not get any spells on their first character levels. Some characters might skip being junior templars all together and try to join the templarate directly once they meet the requirements, counting on their abilities to be of use to the Sorcerer-Kings.
A second point is the way that templars get 7th level spells (the equivalent of 9th level spells in 3rd edition) at level 15 several levels before a standard cleric or druid. I propose that the Templar PrC should be modeled on the Ur-Priest (only less broken) and with almost the same entry requirements for the Templar PrC I propose, it would also be possible for a character with 15 character levels, provided 10 of those were in the Templar PrC, to cast 9th level spells. The quicker road to power should be a temptation to the kind of people attracted to the idea of becoming a templar.
The athas.org article sees the Templar as something along the lines of a favored soul, a charisma based spontaneous divine caster. I do not see it like that and there is nothing to suggest in the original material that is the case. I see the templars as kind of faux-holy men, thus their spell ability is determined by intelligence, not by wisdom.
Prestige Class - The Templar
Templars are the greatly feared disciples of the sorcerer-kings. Their organization is steeped in ancient tradition and treacherous politics, and the work they perform for the sorcerer-kings is governed by endless bureaucracy. To city dwellers, the templars are the enforcers of the sorcerer-king’s will, allowed to run rampant, enforcing the local edicts with painstaking indifference, doling out punishment or even execution with the sorcerer-king’s blessing. An organization of wicked men looking out for their own wealth and power, the templars are overrun with corruption to the highest level -the sorcerer-kings generally turn a blind eye to bribery and scandal among the templars, provided terror is maintained among their subject populations.
Templars in the Templar PrC have secular authority, and that makes them different to the junior templars that wear templar uniforms but are essentially just muscle until they can qualify for the Templar PrC. A character or NPC with the Templar PrC is always respected for the power he or she wields over the downtrodden populace.
Before adopting the Templar prestige class, all prove themselves by gaining proficiency in other classes, especially warrior classes, but also manifesting and rogue classes. At the highest levels, templars have more spells available to them than other divine casters of the same level.
Requirements
To qualify to become a Templar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any neutral or evil.
Base Save Bonus: Fort +3, Will +3.
Skills: Bluff 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (local) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will, Investigator.
CLASS SKILLS
The templar’s class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int) Diplomacy (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (any) (Int), Literacy (none), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (none) and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
CLASS FEATURES
All the following are class features of the Templar prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Templars are proficient with simple weapons, but not with armor or shields.
Spells per Day: A Templar gains the ability to cast a number of divine spells. To cast a spell, a Templar must have a intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, and so a Templar with a intelligence score of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Templar bonus spells are based on intelligence, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + intelligence modifier.
When the Templar Table indicates that the Templar gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, such as 0 2nd-level spells at 2nd level, the Templar gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his intelligence score for that spell level.
The Templar spell list is identical to the cleric spell list. A Templar has access to any spell on the list and prepares those spells as a cleric. A Templar casts spells as a cleric does, except that unlike a cleric, he does not have the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, nor does he have domain spells or associated domain granted powers. He does not have restrictions on spells with alignments. To determine the caster level of a Templar, add the character’s Templar levels to one-half of his levels in other classes.
Secular Authority: See page 39, Dark Sun 3 at athas.org.
Sigil: See page 40, Dark Sun 3 at athas.org
Rebuke Undead: Like an evil cleric, a Templar of 3rd level or higher can rebuke undead. He uses his Templar level as the cleric level for determining success and damage (see Turn or Rebuke Undead, page 159 of the Player’s Handbook).
Scribe Scroll: At 5th level, the Templar has access to the libraries of their Sorcerer-King, and gains the Scribe Scroll feat.
Brew Potion: At 7th Level, the Templar has access to the laboratories of their Sorcerer-King, and gains the Brew Potion feat.
Leadership: At 9th Level, the Templar has grown in power within the templarate and has his own faction. The Templar gains the Leadership feat.
Ex-Templars:
A templar who displeases or abandons his sorcerer-monarch, or one whose sorcerer-monarch dies, loses all templar spellcasting abilities, along with other abilities and feats of the Templar PrC. An ex-templar is treated as a member of an NPC class (commoner, expert, etc) for purposes of determining CR. If the templar later becomes the templar of another sorcerer monarch, he immediately regains his full templar spellcasting abilities, abities, and feats of the Templar PrC.
END
Would love to hear commentary about this. I put a couple of weeks thought into it.
Templars never gain followers as do clerics. They never receive official approval to establish religious stronghold-a sorcerer-king's life revolves around his one city and, while that may expand, he will never open branch areas that he cannot control.
As for spell casting being CHA-based I feel that should still stand, as the success of the Templar is based on his force of personality. Followed by his ability to out think his rivals.
I'm liking it, only one issue I'm seeing (I'm very sleep deprived right now, there might be others) is Leadership at 9th level. The last paragraph on the templar states:
As for spell casting being CHA-based I feel that should still stand, as the success of the Templar is based on his force of personality. Followed by his ability to out think his rivals.
There should be some discussion about the ability for the spellcasting. I think that athas.org went for CHA because they see the templar as something like a spontaneous caster, thus a CHA based class. The templars don't seem particularly charismatic to me, and I dislike the idea that they are anything like a spontaneous caster (they get that from rise and fall of a dragonking). If we can see some rationales behind it, maybe we can change it.
The leadership feat is there for fluff. I envisage it as symbolic of the templars growing power, and of his patronage and perhaps corrupt influence. Perhaps his followers represent other templars blindly obedient to his cause (whatever that is) within the templarate, or perhaps it represent corrupt links outside the templarate, like assassin bards that kill his rivals, or a combination of the two. In any event, these followers are follow the templar on a personal basis, rather than simply being assigned to him by a higher level templar or the sorcerer king. Although a templar could never have a stronghold, the templar could have the equivalent, like being the high templar of one of the bureaus. The whole PrC I designed is designed around the fluff, and leadership in this sense for the templars just works perfectly.
Perhaps a new feat is in order, one especially for the templar - Templar Faction Leader.
I would also question the Leadership SA, though I can see how it could be applied to a spy network, contacts, and/or yes men to the Templar.
I think this line of thought makes some good sense, but I am a bit concerned with the requirements to gain the PrC. I realize it's pretty standard affair to have to be 5th level to take a PrC, but that doesn't entirely fit the Templar profession since many a Templar are raised up within the ranks. How would you resolve this issue?
I would also question the Leadership SA, though I can see how it could be applied to a spy network, contacts, and/or yes men to the Templar.
I need to work on the leadership thing - any suggestions about how to handle it would be welcome. Something that indicates the growing political and civil power of the templar, rather than some ability that gives bonuses to combat.
The way I see it there are several ways to become Templars.
1. Being born in a city-state orphanage. These poor orphans turn out to be the most loyal templars to a sorcerer-monarch, and often consider the king or queen to be a "father" or "mother". Many of these characters put on the templar robes as soon as they reach legal majority. During this time they are junior templars operating without secular authority, and without levels in the Templar PrC. Junior templars wear the same uniforms as members of the Templar PrC, but without the flourishes of rank that indicate the character has secular authority. They work in minor positions, often grunt work or guard or soldering duty, under more senior templars (members of the Templar PrC). In essence, these templars are templars without rank, while members of the Templar PrC are the "officers" of the templarate, just like in an army. The prospective "officer templars" work towards meeting the requirements of the templar class, which they should be able to do at 5th level. Most of these orphans enter the templar PrC through one of the warrior classes.
2. A templar family. Like orphans, almost born to be templars but have excellent connections within the templarate. Most have tutors that teach them martial or psionic skills, and all of these characters join the templarate as members of the Templar PrC when they meet the requirements, never doing grunt work as junior templars.
3. An aristocrat like Tithian. While most templars have martial training or at least training in some kind of skill that is useful, like rogue skills or psionics, the aristocrat is someone that uses their connections to have the expectation of martial skill waived, as long as they meet the requirements for the Templar PrC (using their levels in the aristocrat class). Most of these characters never spend time as a junior templar, instead entering the templarate as soon as they meet the requirements for the class. Many aristocrats look down on the idea of an other aristocrats becoming templars (as was the case of Tithian), but a particularly power hungry or down on his luck aristocrat might do it. Many are sons of large families with little chance of getting much inheritance, with many older brothers taking priority.
4. A freeman wanting to make a difference or get ahead personally. Sometimes a freeman will decide that, for whatever reason, a career in the templarate is for them. Because most freeman lack connections, the templarate will turn them away if they do not meet the requirements of the Templar PrC, and they will not bother employing a freeman as a junior templar as they have no idea if the character will ever have the potential to meet the requirements for the Templar PrC. Even if they meet the requirements, they will probably have to spend up to a year as a junior templar before they are allowed to take the Templar PrC. The templarate does not make it easy for people that just walk in off the street.
5. Recruited into the templarate. A moderately powerful character (with 8 or more character levels) is recruited into the templarate because of his special skills. Psions are especially useful for the sorcerer-kings, and when they learn of a psion that might be friendly to the sorcerer-king, they often attempt to recruit the individual. The "recruiting" might be simply a friendly offer, or perhaps it could be more coercive.
Those are some flavorful examples.
I designed a 20 level Templar with 100% spontaneous casting like the Warmage/Beguiler. More or less happy with its BAB, saves, spels known and spells per day. Not 100% happy with the class abilities.
I've thought about the Spell Progression issue mentioned by Zardnaar, and have been trying to work on a "higher then 10th Level" progression that would be added to by the high Templar PrC's out of the Athas.org Prestige Class Appendix 1 & 2 books. If your still interested I can most likely E-mail the file to you or try to post it here, your choice.
Redking, has there been any more thought put to this? I'm still highly interested in the concept.
I've thought about the Spell Progression issue mentioned by Zardnaar, and have been trying to work on a "higher then 10th Level" progression that would be added to by the high Templar PrC's out of the Athas.org Prestige Class Appendix 1 & 2 books. If your still interested I can most likely E-mail the file to you or try to post it here, your choice.
Actually, I have been thinking about it and have been examining the various 3E books for appropriate ideas and inspiration.
The caster levels, which in the PrC only reach 10th, is solved by the fact that all the other character levels are counted as well, but only half of them.
To determine the caster level of a Templar, add the character’s Templar levels to one-half of his levels in other classes.
I still haven't worked out how to deal with the concerns that some people had with the leadership feat. Any ideas, let me know.
I would like to see your ideas for the Templar class. You can mail me at mailinglistenator at gmail.com or just post it here (although it could mess up the formatting).
you have:
Alignment: Any neutral or evil. (with the exception of Kurn (who I see having their own build anyway), there's no issue here)
Base Save Bonus: Fort +3, Will +3. (Only work if you count the Iron Will feat)
Skills: (Here's where the problems are)
Bluff 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (local) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks (this is only a Class Skill for Bard and Cleric), Spellcraft 8 ranks. (this is only a Class Skill for Cleric, Druid and Wizard)
Feats: Iron Will, Investigator. (no issue here)
With Bluff and the other two Knowledges, it take until 7th (or 9th) level as cross class skills for the only single class that could reach the PrC by 6th level, the Cleric. But that brings up the issue of conflict of interests - as most, if not all the Sorcerer-Monarch dislike the Elemental Churches.
Here's what I've been working on:
Alignment: Any Non-Good.
Skills: Diplomacy 8 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks. (Not 100% on this layout)
Feats: Iron Will, Investigator.
Races: Human, Dwarf, Mul, Elf, Half-elf. (Held over from 2nd)
Special: Must be accepted into the templarate. (You can't force your into this PrC)
Now with only one extra feat (cosmopolitan), there are more builds that can reach this PrC by 6th to 8th. However, I'm still really not sure about the Knowledge: Religion requirement, yes the S-M's set themselves up as living gods but really is it an actual religion or a city-dwellers way of life (Knowledge: Local).
Been doing some crunching, let talk requirements. As it sits right now I cannot get any character class combo to fit before mid-upper levels.
you have:
Alignment: Any neutral or evil. (with the exception of Kurn (who I see having their own build anyway), there's no issue here)
Base Save Bonus: Fort +3, Will +3. (Only work if you count the Iron Will feat)
Skills: (Here's where the problems are)
Bluff 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (local) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks (this is only a Class Skill for Bard and Cleric), Spellcraft 8 ranks. (this is only a Class Skill for Cleric, Druid and Wizard)
Feats: Iron Will, Investigator. (no issue here)
With Bluff and the other two Knowledges, it take until 7th (or 9th) level as cross class skills for the only single class that could reach the PrC by 6th level, the Cleric. But that brings up the issue of conflict of interests - as most, if not all the Sorcerer-Monarch dislike the Elemental Churches.
Here's what I've been working on:
Alignment: Any Non-Good.
Skills: Diplomacy 8 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks. (Not 100% on this layout)
Feats: Iron Will, Investigator.
Races: Human, Dwarf, Mul, Elf, Half-elf. (Held over from 2nd)
Special: Must be accepted into the templarate. (You can't force your into this PrC)
Now with only one extra feat (cosmopolitan), there are more builds that can reach this PrC by 6th to 8th. However, I'm still really not sure about the Knowledge: Religion requirement, yes the S-M's set themselves up as living gods but really is it an actual religion or a city-dwellers way of life (Knowledge: Local).
Good work. Perhaps we can slightly lower the reqs to allow an earlier entry, so a 5th level character can meet reqs to enter the PrC at 6th level. The reason for this is any higher levels and the character probably considers himself to be of that character class, more than a templar. Actually, you might be right about the knowledge, religion requirement. Perhaps we can either drop it entirely or put some or all of it into local knowledge. Send me a mail.
Here's that spell progression chart I was working on:
By building the requirements this way characters with five levels of the Aristocrat, Bard, Psion (Kinetcist & Telepath), Rogue, and Some Experts can qualify for access to the Templar PrC. If you use the 3.0 Cosmopolitan Feat (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 34) you can add Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Gladiator, Warrior and Wizard to the list. Humans of other classes can qualify by seventh level (requires four feats total), non-humans of other classes by tenth – I don’t see that one happening too often (this is assuming your not using flaws in your game). Also keep in mind I’m basing this on single class builds only at the moment.
Now I forget the exact PrC that inspired me on this concept on, but it was from one of the WotC published books... I think it was WotC. But still, there is existing precedence for the concept.
Here’s the new requirements for the Templar using this idea and swapping the Knowledges around.
Requirements:
To qualify to become a Templar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any Non-Good.
Skills: Diplomacy or Intimidate 8 ranks, Knowledge (local) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will, Investigator.
Races: Human, Dwarf, Mul, Elf, Half-elf.
Special: Must be accepted into the templarate (Qualifications for acceptance vary between City-States).
I’ve also been thinking about that Leadership feat issue, the idea I’ve come up with has nothing to due with feats, but a continuing class ability – Network (Ex): One can never underestimate the value of information, Templars are no exception to this. Once per day for every two levels in the templar class a Templar may attempt to contact an ally, spy, informant, blackmailed individual or other retainer for assistance. (I’m still working on the exact game mechanics for this).
Lastly, I’ve upped the spell column by one level so a templar can remain somewhat in competition with the other spell casting classes.