I just got through reading a DS races thread, where people are discussing what races will feature in the setting, and how much the inclusion of certain races that might alter (or compromise) the setting's original theme and concept. That got me thinking, what about the classes? Particularly the arcane and divine classes? WotC's choices here can impact the setting at least as significantly as the races they choose to publish for the setting.
Two things central to the DS setting is that (1) the gods have bailed on Athas, and (2) arcane magic draws upon the land to function.
Divine Speculations: If gods aren't present, this would logically impact clerics, paladins and other divine classes. Would they function as they normally do, and simply tap into some quasi-divine power source like the Astral Sea or abstract concepts like good, justice or power? Or would divine classes draw upon the elements like before? If so, wouldn't this affect class features and powers? (For instance, would a water cleric have alternate prayers or features from one that serves earth or fire?) Would they instead tap an elemental power source? (I've heard rumors from someone that the PHB4 might introduce this source.)
If gods are present, well, that would impact the cosmology considerably, thought I don't necessarily think this would be a bad choice. It would be the simpler option, as it would allow the divine classes to function pretty much normally. It would be interesting to see what sort of gods they'd create for Athas.
Arcane Matters: Would arcane classes function normally, or would they have to pick an arcane or preserver feature for their magic? Here's a thought I had. Because the theory of drawing upon the environment to power one's magic seems a lot more primal than arcane, I can easily see the defiler and preserver being primal classes instead of arcane ones. This would allow them to leave the arcane source alone and allow that power source (and its classes) to function normally. However, were they to go with this option, would other primal classes function differently too?
Well, what do you guys think? I'm interested in your opinions, as well as anything WotC might have officially declared on these matters.
community.wizards.com/wotc_richbaker/blo...
There was also a ton of preview material posted at the DnDXP earlier this year. Check out the podcasts here, they have tons of information:
www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
There's a lot of speculation about Gods on Athas. What is certain: there is currently no Divine power source available to player characters. No divine classes.
Does that mean Gods did exist, ever? Have they always been absent? What is a God? The Elemental Lords are powerful enough to be Gods, could they attract followers? Nobody will answer that except your DM.
All arcane casters use preserving magic by default. They have access to a defiling power that can be used with any Arcane power. All wizards are preservers or defilers by choice, not by class.
The sound quality of the athas unveiled podcast is horrible. I can't even hear what they say most of the time with my speaks turned all the way up.
Also, it sounds to me that the four classic elements are different on Athas. In the original announcement,
"The gods of the setting are absent or dead, replaced by elemental spirits tied to the ancient primordials. Shamans and other primal characters draw on the forces of sun, sand, wind, and precious rain."
So, there you go.
As for Defilers and Preservers, it is hard to say. Take a look at the example characters from D&D XP. www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DNDXP_Characte...
We get an example "defiler" and an example "preserver" The "defiler" is a templar-themed warlock who gets a defiling ability as a class ability, rather than a theme ability. How she gets this class ability isn't very clear. Perhaps all warlocks are necessarily defilers.
The "preserver" is a wizard with the Veiled Alliance theme. He does not have the defiling class ability to be tempted by, or any kind of special class abilities like that. He does have a special Veiled Alliance theme ability, though.
Whether you can have preserving warlocks or defiling wizards, or how bards and swordmages and the like are affected, is anyone's guess.
Unless I'm mistaken, if you look at the character sheets, the theme powers are an extra power. Those characters still have their level 1 encounter power. I'm not sure, but I'd hazard a guess that based on that, we may only get three theme powers, one per tier and each replaces the last.
I hope I'm wrong, since that would offer very little.
and other powers later on which can be substituted, much like the utility skill powers, for other powers gained from your class.
We think, but we have no idea how it will work, beyond very vague hints. If there is new info on theme powers, please provide a link. I'd love to read up!
I want to say it was in the podcast. I am not sure, though.
Pretty sure that's where I heard it, but at this point I can not remember.
Yeah, just went back to listen to the Athas Unveiled podcast and at about 12 or 13 mins in when they talk about themes Rich comments on how themes will give access to substitute powers beyond the initial one given with the theme. This is so you can make your character more gladiatorish or templarish, if you so choose.
I like the new elements (sand, wind, sun and rain) much more than the fire/earth/water/air.
Divine classes not being available fits with the original Dark Sun theme, but I can see this making the sertting less appealing -- those classes are in the books and some players will want to play them, especially those new to the game that don't care about staying true to the original setting. (The same is true of playing races not present in the original Athas, like minotaurs, gnomes, deva, etc.) We'll see how this shakes out.
And the sorcerer-king pact warlock... friggin' beautiful.
Even though by default the divine power source is not going to be used, there is nothing stopping you from using it if you wish. There are no unbalancing mechanics or issues beyond fluff that would contravene this.
True enough, but "fluff," thematics and other abstracts are pretty central to my mindset.
If WotC won't include them then I probably won't, unless there's a very good reason to or I can make their inclusion meaningful. (Like a "the gods have returned!" world-shaking metaplot or something.)Where does it mention that sand is now an element? Link please.
I think he's referring to them by what the Athasans are likely to call them. We know them as earth, air, fire, and water; but they probably know them as sand, wind, sun/fire, and rain.
Wow, thanks for schooling me. Good stuff.
I like the new elements (sand, wind, sun and rain) much more than the fire/earth/water/air.
Divine classes not being available fits with the original Dark Sun theme, but I can see this making the sertting less appealing -- those classes are in the books and some players will want to play them, especially those new to the game that don't care about staying true to the original setting. (The same is true of playing races not present in the original Athas, like minotaurs, gnomes, deva, etc.) We'll see how this shakes out.
And the sorcerer-king pact warlock... friggin' beautiful.
He's obviously commenting after having read blogs and/or listened to a podcast. I read all blogs, but haven't seen the "Athas Unveiled" podcast . Anyone can link to it?
EDIT: Athas Unveiled Podcast at DND XP 2010
What I was quoting was here: www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...
Wow, that podcast was...boring. Beyond the fact the info it contained was already available through Rich's blogs, the speakers have a flat tone, the names they mention (I recall Bruce R Cordell's name thrown in there) are spoken without any excitement, and the product they peddle is generaly passionlessly sold; it doesn't help that the speakers' collegues snicker among themselves at befuddling moments while listening to the speaker. It sounded like an accountant's yearly review, riddled with inside half-funny anecdotes hinted at.
Sure, these people are professional writers and designers, and not professional entertainers, but I would like to see them sell their wares in a way that reaches me, communicating some excitement into the affair. I here think of Blizzard's great podcasts where they comment the gameplay on beta Starcraft 2 game sessions, and boy do they manage to make it sound as exciting and riveting as any sports game on TV.
Sure, these people are professional writers and designers, and not professional entertainers, but I would like to see them sell their wares in a way that reaches me, communicating some excitement into the affair. I here think of Blizzard's great podcasts where they comment the gameplay on beta Starcraft 2 game sessions, and boy do they manage to make it sound as exciting and riveting as any sports game on TV.
I could really go on about that, but in the interests of staying on topic I will only say that seems to be indicative of the way gaming books are written now. Bone dry.
It is my hope that one of the themes allow divine classes to be played as elemental clerics, instead of a whole new elemental cleric class.
It is my hope that one of the themes allow divine classes to be played as elemental clerics, instead of a whole new elemental cleric class.
Yes, one of the themes is elemental priest. There will be no new classes with the release of Dark Sun, but there will be themes and a new build or two for certain classes. Divine classes, though, will not be available by default.
Regarding divine classes/the lack of a divine power source on Athas, in the podcast I remember Rich saying that if a player really wants to play a divine class it might be alright for them to be "one of those people that hears something" (I think is how he put it).
That makes it sound like Divine classes, if the DM allows them at all, are going to be the Crazy Heroes of Athas. I can have fun with that as a DM.