Artificer: I don't allow this, as it's far too "high magic" for Athas - a class that depends on regularly applying arcane magic to itself and to others doesn't really work in a world where all magic is black by definition. Resourced into a Psionic class, though, this could make an unusual form of psy-warrior.
Bard: This isn't present in my Dark Sun games either. The dichtomy between using the "magic of song and story" to inspire and heal people (which is a bit weird for Athas) and the fact magic is powered by leeching off the life essence of others is too great for me to wrap my
Sorcerer: These are present, though exceptionally distrusted; their power manifests spontaneously, and that makes them very unpredictable and very dangerous to their surroundings. Some cells of the Veiled Alliance may have a "kill on sight" policy for Sorcerers. Chaos Sorcerers are perhaps the most common, wielding raw, unfocused magic. Cosmic Sorcerers and Storm Sorcerers aren't much less common, drawing power from the stars and the wild, destructive storms of Athas respectively. Dragon Sorcerers are rarest of all, and the vast majority of them are from Raam; children of the Sorcerer-Queen (which means Human, Half-Elf, Mul, Tiefling and Goliath races almost entirely).
Swordmage: I do want to allow this class, but I'm not sure how well it can fit. The image of soul-sucking warrior-wizards just seems strangely appropriate to Athas.
Warlock: The most common form of Arcanist under the Dark Sun. The vast majority are those of the Sorcerer-King Pact, for reasons I shouldn't bother explaining. After them, Vestige Warlocks find plenty of lost entities and ancient spirits to pact with. Dark Pacts can be forged with creatures from the deepest night and the mysterious underworld, Star Pacts with the same entities that unconsciously bestowed power on Cosmic Sorcerers, and Infernal Pacts with malevolent spirits of fire and hate and wrath. Fey Pacts are so rare as to be almost non-existent.
Wizard: The second most common form of Athasian Arcanist, by virtue of the fact they rely on knowledge passed down and studied.
- Artificers don't exist. Like you said, the idea of regularly creating and interacting with magic and magical items doesn't make sense in a world where both are rare and distrusted. Artificers work best in a very high-magic world like Eberron, not a low-magic one like Athas. If a player wants to be a tinker or mechanic who searches out ancient, lost technology they could apply that concept to any class.
- Bards don't exist as a class, but they do as an idea. There are people who make their living playing music, of course, but music isn't magical. Formally trained bards on Athas tend to be minor nobility or their servants, and often serve as spies or assassins. If a player wants to be a musically-inclined scoundrel, I'd suggest playing a rogue who carries around a lute.
- Sorcerers are the most common arcane class. They're something like mutants in the Marvel universe: they could be anyone, anywhere. Your grandmother, your best friend, or even you could wake up some morning with dangerous and uncontrollable powers. Many sorcerers have very short life-spans after they manifest, and even innocent people who are merely suspected of having powers are sometimes lynched. Some sorcerers choose to abandon their homes and run away into the wilderness to try and make a new life, making them ripe fodder for adventuring. Like you said, chaos magic is the most flavorful; I might go so far as to ban all of the other types. If a player wants to be a sorcerer I’d tell them to play up the alienation and psychological trauma aspects.
- Swordmages don’t exist. They require too much training and too many telltale signs to be able to realistically hide who they are. Carrying around a magical sword all the time? Dead giveaway. Plus, being a swordmage isn’t really something you can just figure out by yourself; you need to find a master who’s willing to teach you their ways. Finding such a master would be nearly impossible if they’ve covered their tracks well enough, and if you did they’d most likely just kill you to maintain their cover. I could maybe see them as a small minority of the Veiled Alliance, if you really want to include them.
- Warlocks aren’t common, but they do exist. Some have managed to clutch some power from dead gods and other, stranger powers through the vestige pact, but few even know of the existence of these beings, let alone how to find them. The sorcerer-kings occasionally bless the most favored and trusted of their templars with a tiny portion of their power, though some do so more commonly than others.
- Alabach-Re almost never creates warlocks, primarily because she trusts no one and no one would want her power anyway. She does, however, give birth to a large number of sorcerers, and her bloodline is teeming with unpredictable magic.
- Andropinis invests all his templars with some small measure of power, but it is usually taken away once their 10-year term is finished. Only his high praetors are trusted enough to be given the full powers of a warlock, and in turn his warlocks love him dearly.
- Dregoth has lost the ability to create warlocks in his weakened, undead state, and he has only one: his high priest Absalom. Many of forcibly-mutated dray under his control manifest as dragon sorcerers, and Dregoth actually encourages this as a way to strengthen his army.
- Hamanu creates warlocks only rarely. They are hand-picked individuals outside of his templars or nobles, who he invests with his power for some specific task he wishes done in secrecy. These tasks almost always end in the warlock’s death, either because of its danger and difficulty or because Hamanu simply kills them when they return.
- Lalali-Puy invests all of her dreaded ngangas with her power, turning them into warlocks and removing them entirely from the social order of Gulg. Although they are fanatically devoted to her, they also tend to go slightly mad from the rush of power and from the terrible things she forces them to do.
- Nibenay has only five warlocks, the high consorts who each oversees one of the temples that governs all aspects of life in the city. Nibenay is so uninvolved and disinterested with the actual running of his city that he has given as much power as he feels he safely can to his warlocks – so much, in fact, that these five are capable of creating warlocks of their own.
- Tectuktitlay is the weakest of the sorcerer-kings, and he knows it. For this reason he refuses to give up any of his arcane power by creating warlocks, believing in his paranoia that if he did so they would only turn upon him and reveal the charade of his supposed godhood.
- Wizards are rare, but after sorcerers they are probably still the most common arcanists on Athas. All wizards belong to the Veiled Alliance, which only accepts new members who manage to pass their extremely rigorous induction process. The ancient secrets of wizardry are never written down for fear of being stolen or used as evidence, and so they are passed down entirely from master to apprentice. Because of this, these teachings have been warped and garbled over the millennia, and spells and rituals that are common on other plains have been lost to time.
Look, Bards have always required some suspension of disbelief. If you think too hard about it...don't.
Artificers are the handpicked treasure hunters and scholars of the Sorcerer Kings and the Veiled Alliance. They are perhaps part of an ancient brotherhood that has forsworn the use of magic, but instead turn the world's magic against itself. This is a perfect class for loremasters and non-wizard/sorcerers associated with the Veiled Alliance. I mean, magic is feared and hated. If anything you'd expect even more people who utilize magical techniques but not magic itself.
First of all, from an Athasian perspective, every...single...solitary...one...is called a "sorcerer" by the populace once their magical ability is discovered. Not a single character in-game is called an artificer, bard (reserved for assassin-type Athasian bards), mage, swordmage, warlock or wizard. They are all labelled sorcerer, preserver, or defiler.
Artificer: They don't have to be tinkers, manipulators of arcane "machinery", etc. In our campaign, we have an artificer who is a Draji blood sorcerer. He doesn't have a thing to do with classic artifice. He strengthens and weakens his allies and enemies by manipulating their flesh and blood and bone and stem and sap and root. He grows magical fruit and other magical items, often using organic parts as a component in the casting. His defiling and preserving pulls life from others in a quite direct manner, often pulling blood and sap right out of the beings in question and pulling it right to himself. His constructs are likewise made of the same organic matter, altered, manipulated, twisted, etc. Similarly, I agree with Bly that artificers who are treasure-hunters and scholarly sorcerers are easily fitted into the Athasian landscape.
Bard: The music is nothing more than a focus. The harmonies, the words, the beats, the raw math behind the notes replace the need for arcane writing, for material components, and so on. Moreover, their sorcerous magic itself is more subtle, and as such is easier to conceal. Bards make brilliant Veiled Alliance members who operate in public. It is, however, a more difficult path for defiling, as plants turning to ash about a person as they sing, dance, and play instruments is...rather revealing.
Sorcerer: Sorcerers are nothing more than an alternate wizardly path, with less focus on controlling, and more focus on raw damage. They are just as common as wizards and mages. They simply have a different mechanical focus.
Swordmage: As has been suggested numerous times on this forum, these are perfect for Templars. Combining martial power with arcane power makes a lot of sense for many of the rank-and-file Templars to focus the power gained from their monarch. This is also another esoteric field of study suitable to someone wanting to be more subtle, and operate a little more publicly. With the right background, and cover-story, a swordmage could pass herself off as someone who simply has a powerful magic item (her sword) in her possession, but who isn't actually a sorceress. Now, that's a lie obviously, but one that is thematically apropos.
Warlock: These sorcerers do not make pacts with the Shadowfell or Feywild, or Vestiges, or the Hells or Far Realms. They make pacts with similar types of beings of power native to Athas. The sorcerer-monarchs are the obvious choices, and I'd let any of the pacts be tied to a specific monarch, not merely the sorcerer-king pact. With a sufficiently convincing backstory, however, a being other than a monarch could easily be an arcane patron. Even beings of other power sources. A warlock who uses the primal power gained from a spirit of the land to power his fey pact arcane spells. One who funnels the power of a powerful elemental of fire to fuel his infernal pact spells. Having the psionic power of an ancient Green Age master of the Way now residing in a guardian sphere provide the power for his star pact powers.
Currently we have a bard/ Noble adept, Garth. Garth is a highly Chrismatic half-elf who charmed his way into the hearts of a noble family in Balic. They adopted him and gave him a noble education including learning in the bardic tradition, taught to him by a practicing preserver. He is aware of the danger flaunting his arcane powers and disguises them as psionic, he is a noble adept trained in the Way, after all. He is the parties ritual caster.
- Warlocks aren’t common, but they do exist. Some have managed to clutch some power from dead gods and other, stranger powers through the vestige pact, but few even know of the existence of these beings, let alone how to find them. The sorcerer-kings occasionally bless the most favored and trusted of their templars with a tiny portion of their power, though some do so more commonly than others.
- Alabach-Re almost never creates warlocks, primarily because she trusts no one and no one would want her power anyway. She does, however, give birth to a large number of sorcerers, and her bloodline is teeming with unpredictable magic.
- Andropinis invests all his templars with some small measure of power, but it is usually taken away once their 10-year term is finished. Only his high praetors are trusted enough to be given the full powers of a warlock, and in turn his warlocks love him dearly.
- Dregoth has lost the ability to create warlocks in his weakened, undead state, and he has only one: his high priest Absalom. Many of forcibly-mutated dray under his control manifest as dragon sorcerers, and Dregoth actually encourages this as a way to strengthen his army.
- Hamanu creates warlocks only rarely. They are hand-picked individuals outside of his templars or nobles, who he invests with his power for some specific task he wishes done in secrecy. These tasks almost always end in the warlock’s death, either because of its danger and difficulty or because Hamanu simply kills them when they return.
- Lalali-Puy invests all of her dreaded ngangas with her power, turning them into warlocks and removing them entirely from the social order of Gulg. Although they are fanatically devoted to her, they also tend to go slightly mad from the rush of power and from the terrible things she forces them to do.
- Nibenay has only five warlocks, the high consorts who each oversees one of the temples that governs all aspects of life in the city. Nibenay is so uninvolved and disinterested with the actual running of his city that he has given as much power as he feels he safely can to his warlocks – so much, in fact, that these five are capable of creating warlocks of their own.
- Tectuktitlay is the weakest of the sorcerer-kings, and he knows it. For this reason he refuses to give up any of his arcane power by creating warlocks, believing in his paranoia that if he did so they would only turn upon him and reveal the charade of his supposed godhood.
What are Templars usually then, if not Warlocks?
Tectuktitlay: Those are some really cool interpretations, and I definitely agree that if a player offered a compelling enough idea about almost any race/class I'd let them go for it. Completely reflavoring an artificer that way is awesome.
Raddu76: I'd say that most templars are just kind of people with the authority to enforce the law. Fighters and warlords make the most sense - and now, thanks to Bly, swordmages. I'd say only the highest tier actually get to become warlocks, since the sorcerer-kings aren't likely to just hand out their power to all of their hundreds of templars.
EDIT: I have no idea why this post looks so weird, and I can't seem to fix it. Oh well.
All of them, with the right supporting background.
After what you've written down, yes I'd say all would be allowed but some need some heavy refluffing (although not necessarily to the point of altering mechanics). Such as the Artificer (nice reflavoring, by the way
).Bard: The music is nothing more than a focus. The harmonies, the words, the beats, the raw math behind the notes replace the need for arcane writing, for material components, and so on. Moreover, their sorcerous magic itself is more subtle, and as such is easier to conceal. Bards make brilliant Veiled Alliance members who operate in public. It is, however, a more difficult path for defiling, as plants turning to ash about a person as they sing, dance, and play instruments is...rather revealing.
Aside from Athasian Bard being a theme already -- so a bardic bard is actually possible -- the whole class doesn't even need to be about music or telling tales. Ever thought of the Bard class as one who uses arcana (and not psionics) to manipulate the minds and bodies of allies and opponents alike? Vicious Mockery could be a mind-wracking whisper, Jinx Shot could be the "sorcerer" enchanting his arrow to turn into vines or manacles that the enemy would trip over if he went about attacking his foes, Staggering Note could be mentally coercing the enemy to let down his guard to give an ally an opening (or it could be manipulating the ally's body like a puppet to have him swing awkwardly but effectively, causing the opponent to unwittingly move at the direction desired by the bard), etc.
Sorcerer: Sorcerers are nothing more than an alternate wizardly path, with less focus on controlling, and more focus on raw damage. They are just as common as wizards and mages. They simply have a different mechanical focus.
My friend's Sorcerer was a normal person in Athas until he died in the desert, and was mysteriously raised from the dead with the ability to manipulate the elements. Attributing his resurrection to the primal spirits, he set about preaching a new religion based on them (without realizing that he was actually corrupting the world with his magic). Theme: Elemental Priest, Class: Tempest Sorcerer.
Swordmage: As has been suggested numerous times on this forum, these are perfect for Templars. Combining martial power with arcane power makes a lot of sense for many of the rank-and-file Templars to focus the power gained from their monarch. This is also another esoteric field of study suitable to someone wanting to be more subtle, and operate a little more publicly. With the right background, and cover-story, a swordmage could pass herself off as someone who simply has a powerful magic item (her sword) in her possession, but who isn't actually a sorceress. Now, that's a lie obviously, but one that is thematically apropos.
They also work for Veiled Alliance characters, since they also tend to work undercover and are dedicated to protecting and guiding potential preservers (Shielding Swordmage), as well as destroying defilers whenever possible (Assault & Ensnaring Swordmage).
All arcane classess are allowed inn our Dark Sun campaign. The only class restrictions I have are no divine classess. The gods are dead and or not listening to the faithful. But all arcane classess are a go, it is up to the player to decide one how thier class fits in DS.
This is what I did. The party is a Druid, Swordmage, Bard at the moment.
In hindsight, while an us (preservers) vs them (defiliers) campaign fits neatly in a box, I think its turned out to be much more interesting for the group to come to grips with why Athas got to be the way that it is. That is to say, sometimes people do "bad" things because they are desperate or ignorant. When our Bard (my teenage son) defiled to get his Daily to go hit the Id Fiend, he really didn't think too much about it because it was a life-and-death situation. When the NPCs they were traveling with shunned the group and abandoned them while they explored the tomb, the players got to talking about defiling and what it means to them.
Actions and consequences. I thought it turned into something interesting and would've never arise in a "we're all the good guys and can do whatever we want" group. I'm curious where it will end up.
As we all know, in 4e, all classes of the Arcane power source theoretically exist on Athas. I'm curious, though; in your games, which Arcane classes do you actually say exist on Athas, and which do you say don't really fit under the Dark Sun? For myself...
Artificer: I don't allow this, as it's far too "high magic" for Athas - a class that depends on regularly applying arcane magic to itself and to others doesn't really work in a world where all magic is black by definition. Resourced into a Psionic class, though, this could make an unusual form of psy-warrior.
Bard: This isn't present in my Dark Sun games either. The dichtomy between using the "magic of song and story" to inspire and heal people (which is a bit weird for Athas) and the fact magic is powered by leeching off the life essence of others is too great for me to wrap my
Sorcerer: These are present, though exceptionally distrusted; their power manifests spontaneously, and that makes them very unpredictable and very dangerous to their surroundings. Some cells of the Veiled Alliance may have a "kill on sight" policy for Sorcerers. Chaos Sorcerers are perhaps the most common, wielding raw, unfocused magic. Cosmic Sorcerers and Storm Sorcerers aren't much less common, drawing power from the stars and the wild, destructive storms of Athas respectively. Dragon Sorcerers are rarest of all, and the vast majority of them are from Raam; children of the Sorcerer-Queen (which means Human, Half-Elf, Mul, Tiefling and Goliath races almost entirely).
Swordmage: I do want to allow this class, but I'm not sure how well it can fit. The image of soul-sucking warrior-wizards just seems strangely appropriate to Athas.
Warlock: The most common form of Arcanist under the Dark Sun. The vast majority are those of the Sorcerer-King Pact, for reasons I shouldn't bother explaining. After them, Vestige Warlocks find plenty of lost entities and ancient spirits to pact with. Dark Pacts can be forged with creatures from the deepest night and the mysterious underworld, Star Pacts with the same entities that unconsciously bestowed power on Cosmic Sorcerers, and Infernal Pacts with malevolent spirits of fire and hate and wrath. Fey Pacts are so rare as to be almost non-existent.
Wizard: The second most common form of Athasian Arcanist, by virtue of the fact they rely on knowledge passed down and studied.
Of course warlock fits in very well, what with the SK pact and all.
It's interesting your take on Sorcerors, since I think Wizards should be more rare. The SK's are pretty covetous about their power, and I would think they would crack down on actual magic studies pretty hard (you know, like literacy). Sorcerors are actually a great way IMO to show that there may be a further evil seeding arcane power in the world to further destroy the world and turn it into something even worse...
Sword mages seem like a nice Templar alternative to the Warlock. I see them as the less political/administrative side of the Templar, still arcane, still devious and evil from time to time, but maybe the more in the streets, luitenant (I know that spelling is pry botched). Also, since sword mage powers can be concealed a tad more easily, it seems like something that could be a tradition started by rogue templars as a veiled alliance sort of defender. Keep it secret. Keep it safe.
I agree with you about Bards, especially since arcane magic should really have to work in Athas to heal. Plus none of my group ever wants to play a bard.
Now artificers... I completely agree with what you said, so I have reflavored the artificer as a martial class. Alchemical and clockwork with a bit of elemental/primal thrown in at higher tiers. IMO this is what it should be in non-eberron settigns anyway, but yeah, I like the artificer, and it makes a great addition to a party instead of a cleric, so I have done that in my games. We even have one in our group.
We also have a Thri-Kreen Runepriest in the party.
We also have a Thri-Kreen Runepriest in the party.
That is the strangest one I noticed in the thread. Of course every Dark Sun campaign is different and the new approach to D&D (having only a skeletal setup of the worlds) encourages creativity. I personally would not allow rune priests. Writing is illegal. Rune priests channel heavily on the dwarf race which has lost its ability to write long ago. I don't believe Thri-Kreen use literature either instead relying on collective tribe memories and handed down stories.
The truth is there are so many available Leader roles that removing the Divine power source doesn't hurt the campaign at all.
I think 4E would have been the perfect edition of AD&D to do a DragonLance campaign with. Everything you need rules-wise and class-wise is available in abundance without a need to resort to clerics that pretend not to be clerics and healing artifacts. I am pretty happy with WotC choice to use Dark Sun. If I had a second choice it would have been DragonLance. I am not a big fan of the novels either. It is just that 4E meshes perfect with the story backgrounds rules-wise.
That is the strangest one I noticed in the thread. Of course every Dark Sun campaign is different and the new approach to D&D (having only a skeletal setup of the worlds) encourages creativity. I personally would not allow rune priests. Writing is illegal. Rune priests channel heavily on the dwarf race which has lost its ability to write long ago. I don't believe Thri-Kreen use literature either instead relying on collective tribe memories and handed down stories.
Pretty much, yeah.
Rune Magic is a thing forgotten for hundreds of years, more akin to art or a craft than an actual form of writing (and in someways perhaps even resembling a science). This art has been lost since time out of memory, perhaps even the sorceror kings have no memory of it. A Thri Kreen might be able to rediscover Rune Magic by delving deep enough into his racial memory, and anyone might be able to discover within the confines of some forgotten ruins an ancient, shattered codex that is covered in runes; slowly re-learning the runic arts as they reconstruct the slab of stone it was written on.
As to illegality, well it's been so long forgotten that even to a Sorceror-King the runes might appear as nothing more than fanciful etchings on a Runepriest's weapon and armor, and none - not even the Runepriest - would have any idea where the power of the things come from, at least not until the story allows them to discover where the power they wield originated from.
a runepriest could pretend to be a fighter the same way a swordmage could (probably be more convincing given they wear scale, use a shield and are strong)
just have to think of a good backstory as to how the runpriest started to learn his power. maybe tie it to the veil alience. they found some old books and found a power source that might help end the SC's forever
@Reg06, yes they exist, but not as spellcasters in the classic 2e version. MOre as entertainers/assassins rather than entertainer/arcanists
You think that, but Bards have very good Bluff.
Artificer: Very, very few in the setting. They often form small groups of the most elite "blacksmiths", capable of imbuing mundane weapons and armors with incredible power... for a price.
Bard: They are almost singularly Minstrels, and disguise their powers as simple non-mundane singing, dancing, and jests. They make sure not to Defile by accident, lest they be given away instantly, and for this reason are often found in the Veiled Alliance. (In fact, the most prominent NPC in the campaign, a Half-Elf Battlemind named Adran, dabbles in bardic magic.)
Sorcerer: Prominent, actually. One of the Veiled Alliance members which the party must contact for Adran is a Sorcerer, as well as one of the major antagonistic Templars. A major note is that the family member which last had arcane power need not have been a Sorcerer themselves; a Sorcerer could pop up in the family line because of a Warlock 4 generations back.
Warlock: Nearly every Templar is one of these, or a Psionic class. Naturally, they have Sorcerer-King Pacts.
Wizard: Well, naturally, there will be those who study Arcane magic. Either with the blessing of the Sorcerer King, or in secret, Wizards are raised on Athas.