For those of us completely new to the setting -- are there undead in Dark Sun? It seems like they'd be really powerful since they have no need for food or water in this limited resource environment.
For those of us completely new to the setting -- are there undead in Dark Sun? It seems like they'd be really powerful since they have no need for food or water in this limited resource environment.
In a word: yes.
There is a great many kinds of undead on Athas. The largest collection of which exist in a land covered in obsidian known as the Deadlands. Check out "Terrors of the Deadlands", a supplement released by the people at athas.org to see the massive variety of undead that are available.
But Shadow Giants are just corrupted halflings serving Rajaat. Outsider/Immortal would probably be a better type.
Hmm, you're right. Been a long time since I looked them up. Old age getting to me.
But Shadow Giants are just corrupted halflings serving Rajaat. Outsider/Immortal would probably be a better type.
Hmm, you're right. Been a long time since I looked them up. Old age getting to me.
They say eyesight is the second thing to go with old age. I don't remember the first.
Undead on Athas tend to be unique. Only the mass-animated undead, such as skeletons and zombies, will be more or less identical, and those will tend to be lifeless husks kept animate through magic alone.
Mind you, when I say "unique", I don't mean unique to Athas, but UNIQUE. As in, this "vampire" and that "vampire" are quite different from one another, mechanically, flavor-wise, and in terms of their origin. This "ghoul" and that "ghoul" will be different as well, with a unique twist on each. They also tend to be MUCH more intelligent than your average undead on other worlds. That "ghoul" isn't some random, relatively mindless undead, but rather as intelligent as it was in life, with goals and motivations, and now some twisted need to boot (in the case of a ghoul, see: hungers for flesh).
I intend to do this with every...single...undead in my DS campaign. Unless they are obviously mindless animated husks, they will all have their own unique set of powers, with virtually no repetition even within a single encounter or adventure. You might face one wraith now with one set of powers, and the three you face in the final encounter will EACH be have quite different abilities beyond the basic shared traits of being a "wraith".
Athas.org's Terrors of the Dead Lands, a free download using 3rd Edition rules (but with more fluff than rules, so quite useful even in 4th Edition), lists all of those undead plus many new ones developed by 2nd Edition designers for Dark Sun but which never saw the light of day since the original product was never published (later on picked up and published by Athas.org). Check it out.
There's even an Undead Almost Dragon-King.
Well, he's about as "almost dragon-king" as all of the other dragon-kings. There is only one full Dragon, and I don't believe he actually is a dragon-king any more (my memory of the Valley of Dust and Fire is a bit sketchy, but I think his city-state was already in ruins). The others are all "almost dragons", but for Dark Sun, that makes them dragons anyway. They sure as heck aren't humans any more.
Are SKs even dragons now?
There's even an Undead Almost Dragon-King.Well, he's about as "almost dragon-king" as all of the other dragon-kings. There is only one full Dragon, and I don't believe he actually is a dragon-king any more (my memory of the Valley of Dust and Fire is a bit sketchy, but I think his city-state was already in ruins). The others are all "almost dragons", but for Dark Sun, that makes them dragons anyway. They sure as heck aren't humans any more.
Dregoth was only one step away from full dragon when he became undead. This is quite a bit closer than any of the other sorcerer-kings.
The "one full dragon" was Borys of Ebe, who ruled what was possibly the largest city on Athas until he was killed in battle with Rikus. Shortly after this Rajaat's escape leveled his city.
I wonder what they'll do with the term Dragon King, as the Dragon is not a king, never was, and the term only meant something with the reveal - in the Dragon Kings supplement and the Prism Pentad novels - that the SKs were dragons.
The Dragon was King of Ur Draxa.
The Dragon was King of Ur Draxa.
Valid point. Yet he's king of a secret city, in a secret remote locale, lording over a secret people. Calling Borys a dragon-king is more for the benefit of a game product reader than for a Tyr Region character being played by one.
Borys was Dragon King of Ur Draxa. I see no reason why the location of the city state would detract from this.
Ur Draxa wasn't secret, or remote, to the 150,000+ Ur Draxans that lived there.
I've run campaigns based in Ur Draxa where none of the PCs even knew the Tyr region existed (at least initially). It's actually better detailed that most of the other city-states (one of the only ones that got it's own book), and was a great place to adventure.
Dregoth was only one step away from full dragon when he became undead. This is quite a bit closer than any of the other sorcerer-kings.
Yes, but the Dregoth and the other SK's (minus Oronis) are definitely not human any more, would you agree? They are in the process of becoming full dragons, and aren't there yet. However, since they aren't classifiable as human any more, would you concur that for classification purposes, they are "dragons" -- not full dragons, just fall into the classification of dragon, especially from a Dark Sun perspective.
The "one full dragon" was Borys of Ebe, who ruled what was possibly the largest city on Athas until he was killed in battle with Rikus. Shortly after this Rajaat's escape leveled his city.
Correct, he is the one full Dragon. But by Dark Sun terms, he is not the only dragon-king (he is the only Dragon, however, called The Dragon even). However, I prefer the term Sorcerer-King to Dragon-King, as I like to keep the little details secret in my campaigns.
I wonder what they'll do with the term Dragon King, as the Dragon is not a king, never was, and the term only meant something with the reveal - in the Dragon Kings supplement and the Prism Pentad novels - that the SKs were dragons.The Dragon was King of Ur Draxa.
Correct, and the other Sorcerer-Kings technically also are referred to as dragon-kings in many older products. A term I've tried to expunge from materials I present to my players, as I like to make that be a bit of a shocker whenever they might encounter one.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you've just said.
In the original Dark Sun material (at least the post dragon-kings material) all the sorcerer-kings are dragons-kings. Dragon is their species/race right from the first stage of metamorphosis, as well as their character class.
Of course only a handful of people ever knew the sorcerer-kings were dragons, or that the Dragon was the king of his own city (well besides the Draxans).
Only a few of my players, and none of their characters, have any idea the sorcerer kings are anything beyond powerful human defiler/psionicists.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you've just said.In the original Dark Sun material (at least the post dragon-kings material) all the sorcerer-kings are dragons-kings. Dragon is their species/race right from the first stage of metamorphosis, as well as their character class.
Of course only a handful of people ever knew the sorcerer-kings were dragons, or that the Dragon was the king of his own city (well besides the Draxans).
Only a few of my players, and none of their characters, have any idea the sorcerer kings are anything beyond powerful human defiler/psionicists.
I agree on that. In fact, I have very strict control on what information the characters ever get in my Dark Sun campaigns, and players using their knowledge as the character's knowledge... well those characters are the first to meet a horrific end...
Ur Draxa wasn't secret, or remote, to the 150,000+ Ur Draxans that lived there.
You're redkanking the situation, me fears. I said, in post #15, second line of two, that the Tyr Region character does not know this.
Btw, I'm not angry or anything...I just liked coining a new word! ;)
I wonder what they'll do with the term Dragon King, as the Dragon is not a king, never was, and the term only meant something with the reveal - in the Dragon Kings supplement and the Prism Pentad novels - that the SKs were dragons.
Are SKs even dragons now?
I hope not.
Though I love the concepts of Avangion and a Dragon-king; however, there's no need for SK to be Dragons other than a plot device.
I was quite happy with them being wizards.
I hope not.
Though I love the concepts of Avangion and a Dragon-king; however, there's no need for SK to be Dragons other than a plot device.
I was quite happy with them being wizards.
Well, they did preview Nibenay, and he definitely looked very dragon-ish.
I believe they were "dragon-kings" from the get-go. They were called "sorcerer-kings", but the stats for the SK's always had them in the dragon metamorphosis. That wasn't something made up in DS2.
But there is no mechanical difference anymore between a Level 28 Elite Controller human, immortal, demon, and one who is a dragon. That's 4e for you ;)
There might be a mechanical difference...for players, if they make dragon an epic destiny.
Dumb of me, yeah, the art for Nibenay is that of a dragon.
But there is no mechanical difference anymore between a Level 28 Elite Controller human, immortal, demon, and one who is a dragon. That's 4e for you ;)
There might be a mechanical difference...for players, if they make dragon an epic destiny.
Just how many players in 2e made it to 30th-level Dragon?
I actually have been developing some ideas for Kyuss to have a role in my next campaign. Although an epic level threat, his whispers and effects would be felt in the heroic/paragon levels.
My view of Kyuss in Dark Sun is developing quite well. Kyuss provides a new hope to a dying world. A form of new life (undeath). His empire is that of fungus, rotting and pestilence that will feed his worms and provide eternal life to all.
His pestilence not only provides eternal life to those who join, but also life through Athas. This is a bit outside standard lore, since I will give Kyuss's influence over all the putrid life of the planet. This includes many lifeforms found in the dark (fungus, bacteria, worms, grubs).
I look forward to seeing the first athasian deathknights.
Dragon King is going to be an Epic Destiny in 4e, so I'm guessing that they're still dragons.
Unless you are talking about Dregoth.