- I ran the Dark Sun 2e until my dice bled
-I have read most of the books
-Haven't run Dark Sun since 2e, it's been awhile
-Dark Sun campaign is the first 4e book to impress me, sorry 4e fanboys
-I will be running Dark Sun, my first 4e DM attempt
Questions
1. What material is out there on Athas's moons? I'm refering to the refernce of the moons being a garden paradise and a John Carter Mars type of enviorenment, if you don't know who John Carter is look up Edgar Rice Burroughs, Google knows all. Is this a new idea? It mentions the posibility of gates to the moons. If this is a new idea, bravo to which ever author came up with the idea.
2.What kind of creative ideas does the community have regarding these two possible settings? I am going to make it a high level setting and come up with a mechanic preventing the PC's from bring back water and metal, in order to keep a balance on Athas.
The creativity of the Dark Sun Campaign book has really started my own creative juices flowing. I am actually looking forward to a 4e session. I am interested in what the community can come up with.
Space
If they do the teleport too often or teleport with too much stuff (such as if they were mining or bringing back large amounts of water) then the area surrounding the gate on the moon would wither and die and the gate would no longer work until the land has recovered sufficiently.
So, they could have 2 things possibly happen to them. Either they could get stranded on the moon, or they would use up all the power going home and suddenly are unable to return to the moon for decades.
Though, I prefer the idea of being stranded. Perhaps when they bring all the stuff they want to bring with them back to Athas to the gate and initiate the teleport the defiling begins to sap energy from the surroundings but everything dies before it can amass enough energy for the teleport so it basically just stalls out and doesn't work.
Then the players have to go about trying to restore the land surrounding the gate in order to get back to Athas (remember, there is a ritual to restore defiled land) or they can try to find another gate, if another such gate even exists *queue ominous yet adventurous music*
Well, I've actually considered the moons myself. My thought was that one great way to hinder the players from just looting the moons for resources to sell on Athas would be that every time they use the gates it causes a huge amount of defiling on the moon you are gating to. After all, teleporting that far likely would require a fair bit of power.
If they do the teleport too often or teleport with too much stuff (such as if they were mining or bringing back large amounts of water) then the area surrounding the gate on the moon would wither and die and the gate would no longer work until the land has recovered sufficiently.
So, they could have 2 things possibly happen to them. Either they could get stranded on the moon, or they would use up all the power going home and suddenly are unable to return to the moon for decades.
Though, I prefer the idea of being stranded. Perhaps when they bring all the stuff they want to bring with them back to Athas to the gate and initiate the teleport the defiling begins to sap energy from the surroundings but everything dies before it can amass enough energy for the teleport so it basically just stalls out and doesn't work.
Then the players have to go about trying to restore the land surrounding the gate in order to get back to Athas (remember, there is a ritual to restore defiled land) or they can try to find another gate, if another such gate even exists *queue ominous yet adventurous music*
All excellent ideas Enclave. The cost would keep a balance on Athas. I like the idea of being stranded in a hostile enviorenment. The natives against them. I posted thi thread on ENworld and a poster there had an idea of a prophecy foretelling the heroes coming as harbringers of death. Your ideas would fit in well with this.
www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/2892...
My idea can also explain why the gate is no longer in general use by a Sorcerer King or something. The reason? The original builders perhaps themselves got stranded on the moon, everybody who also have previously tried to use the gate found that it simply didn't work, they just weren't aware that it was due to the defiling on the moon and that they'd have to wait for the land there to recover sufficiently. So the gate fell into ruin and thus nobody, not even the Sorcerer Kings know it exists, or if they do know it exists they believe it's just an inert ruin that has lost whatever power it may once have had.
Good ideas. I had just went with the assumption that the builders sealed it behind them, perhaps to prevent further defiling. Was green Athas's last gasp of green used to close the portal, perhaps after the gate had drained most of the plant life from the planet. The advanced space faring Halfling race's attempt to reclaim the glory that was once their's. The seal is now weaking after thousands of years. The local Sorcerer King was unware of the portal up until point. The heroes activation of the portal has brought it to his attention, a new powerful area for conquest. The halflings have grown peacful and docile due to millinea of isolation, or perhaps barbarians with advanced technology, but it will be up to the heroes to thwart the Sorcere King. Barrier Peaks has always been one of my favorite modules.
I have trouble believing that a teleporter would be so powerful of an artifact that it would be able to defile the entire moon.
In your scenario, perhaps the builders sealed it specifically to stop others from following them.
Is there anything that states if the moons are inhabited, and what lives on them? Will pcs get a bonus to athletics and acrobatic checks because of lower gravity?
There is VERY little information on the moons in the campaign guide. I suspect this is simply so DM's can themselves decide what's going on there. After all, the meat and potatoes of the setting is what's going on on Athas itself, not what's going on in orbit around it.
-Humidity: The players would have more access to water, making that element almost unnecessary to keep track of in survival days. They atmosphere could also be thicker and prevent sun sickness. However, players now have to deal with humidity (as a South Carolinian, I know it's a lot worse than dry heat because sweating does no good whatsoever). I'd count this as sun sickness, except that it occurs day or night, regardless of whether or not they have water.
-Disease: When the Europeans showed up in the Americaa, they caused a lot of problems because of the diseases the Native Americans never had before. Of course, it can go both ways. The moons might be inhabited by ogre-like beings start projectile-bleeding (and unleashing other liquids) from every oriface just for breathing the same air as the players, who are then hailed as heroes by the SARS-ridden wee-folk and the lucious moon-people who throw their STD-laden green women at them.
-Different biochemistry: Something I thought about reading in an Arthur C. Clarke novel (2061, I think) which would prevent the players from turning the moons into treasure troves, life on other planets might be able to digest us, and vice versa. The idea is that all life on earth is capable of eating each other because they're all evolved from pretty much the same thing and are really all made from the same substance, so there isn't much of a chance of rejection. You go to another planet, you've got a completely different organism made from completely different substances. So, sure, the PCS can bring back all the moon fruit they want. It just tastes bad and will provide almost no nutrition beyond the tainted water in the fruit (which will give you the wicked runs, causing you to run through twice as much water in your survival days as you try to stay hydrated back on Athas).
-Vikings vs (mecha-riding?) Native Americans (cyborgs?): The Vikings are fairly well accepted as being the first Europeans to reach America, and they could have gotten pretty far into what is now the United States. Why didn't they take over like the Spanish, French, and English later did? They weren't really that much more technologically advanced than the Native Americans, and weren't prepared for the long haul. So, even if the PCs take enough slaves/followers/hired workers to build a small fortified city on the other side of the gate, keep it open, and keep bringing in supplies, they might arrive to see that the native Ralians or Guthians have just as much psionics and magic as they do (perhaps more). They might also have plenty of metal, and maybe some leftover life shaping technology (or better!). 8 Str because I was born on a low gravity planet? Who cares, I have a mecha! Suck my flamethrower!
-Nope, just funny colored rocks: Maybe the wizards that scryed Ral didn't get a really good look. Maybe the green isn't from jungles, the blasted desert of Ral just happens to have green sand. Welcome to Athas... Again.
-The gates are working: They're just in such a bad location that noone sits around long enough to figure out the regular times they turn on.
Only mention of the moons were Tec's claims about them, a temple of two dedicated to them (think there were some ruins in the dragon's crown adventure), and some myth about silk wyrms coming from one of the moons and it actually being a gigantic egg waiting to hatch.
Thanks, I didn't know about those references. Perhaps the temples are where the gates are and over time the natives have come to know them as temples rather than their actual function, a site for transporatation. It will be tricky to get to the gates burried in a subterranean basement. The heroes will have to start miles away in the Underdark and work their way there. The myth actually represents the rebirth of Athas through the moon. Just my ideas.
A few things I'd consider:
-Humidity: The players would have more access to water, making that element almost unnecessary to keep track of in survival days. They atmosphere could also be thicker and prevent sun sickness. However, players now have to deal with humidity (as a South Carolinian, I know it's a lot worse than dry heat because sweating does no good whatsoever). I'd count this as sun sickness, except that it occurs day or night, regardless of whether or not they have water.
-Disease: When the Europeans showed up in the Americaa, they caused a lot of problems because of the diseases the Native Americans never had before. Of course, it can go both ways. The moons might be inhabited by ogre-like beings start projectile-bleeding (and unleashing other liquids) from every oriface just for breathing the same air as the players, who are then hailed as heroes by the SARS-ridden wee-folk and the lucious moon-people who throw their STD-laden green women at them.
-Different biochemistry: Something I thought about reading in an Arthur C. Clarke novel (2061, I think) which would prevent the players from turning the moons into treasure troves, life on other planets might be able to digest us, and vice versa. The idea is that all life on earth is capable of eating each other because they're all evolved from pretty much the same thing and are really all made from the same substance, so there isn't much of a chance of rejection. You go to another planet, you've got a completely different organism made from completely different substances. So, sure, the PCS can bring back all the moon fruit they want. It just tastes bad and will provide almost no nutrition beyond the tainted water in the fruit (which will give you the wicked runs, causing you to run through twice as much water in your survival days as you try to stay hydrated back on Athas).
-Vikings vs (mecha-riding?) Native Americans (cyborgs?): The Vikings are fairly well accepted as being the first Europeans to reach America, and they could have gotten pretty far into what is now the United States. Why didn't they take over like the Spanish, French, and English later did? They weren't really that much more technologically advanced than the Native Americans, and weren't prepared for the long haul. So, even if the PCs take enough slaves/followers/hired workers to build a small fortified city on the other side of the gate, keep it open, and keep bringing in supplies, they might arrive to see that the native Ralians or Guthians have just as much psionics and magic as they do (perhaps more). They might also have plenty of metal, and maybe some leftover life shaping technology (or better!). 8 Str because I was born on a low gravity planet? Who cares, I have a mecha! Suck my flamethrower!
-Nope, just funny colored rocks: Maybe the wizards that scryed Ral didn't get a really good look. Maybe the green isn't from jungles, the blasted desert of Ral just happens to have green sand. Welcome to Athas... Again.
-The gates are working: They're just in such a bad location that noone sits around long enough to figure out the regular times they turn on.
All very interesting ideas and very realistic. As a world builder these ideas are fun to incorporate in your game, but past groups of mine have found such details boring. As far as the diseases and such. The life of a DM, under appreciated. The runs, hilarious.
Is there anything that states if the moons are inhabited, and what lives on them? Will pcs get a bonus to athletics and acrobatic checks because of lower gravity?
If we were being realistic, yes they would. If we are going John Carter, the natives would also be weaker. As Ian mentioned, weaker physically, but stronger technologically or mentally. Perhaps also a weakeness similar to Tolkiens Elves, something mental compelling them.
if it was a green age device wouldn't it be more likely that it was psionic though? perhaps the obsidian orb that controlled it was damaged (willfully or just after centuries of natural entropy) and no longer functions. it's trapped psyche having faded to nothing after many long years. perhaps the only way to get it working is to find another functioning obsidian orb and replace the damaged/inert one on the gate. this orb could be located in an old green age ruin - guistenal or bodach would be cool places...OR perhaps it would be a reason to send the players to Saragar and the last sea...a modern day green age city with tons of orbs...if only they could get there and make it back!
Love your ideas bfishy. I enjoy 4e psionics quite a bit. One of the reasons I'm enjoying 4e DS. Getting there and back would be a challange, but the inhabitants of the city would have to be hostile also. They don't want the knowledge of their city to become common, so they welcome thw heroes with open arms, only to be drugged, betrayed and thrown in the dungeons. At this point the small and secretive rebellion makes it's presence known to the heroes and helps them to escape through secret passages.
Paradise lost and all that.
try to find an online .pdf of, or even the original source box for, 2nd edition dark sun entitled "Mind Lords of the Last Sea." that would be a good reference for any fluff and info on the green age throw back Saragar. on the surface the city seems serene, and the populace happy and content...but underneath the veneer is a "brave new world" sort of mentality. all must be happy, and happiness is enforced by the Mind Lords - ancient consciousnesses bound in obsidian orbs that have gone...well...they've gone mad! those who don't stay happy are subject to an "attitude adjustment" (i.e. - psionic mind wipe and reprogramming). the city and location itself is hidden by ancient psionic barriers which make it both difficult to magically or psionically divine its location as well as actually get into the area and the city within.
Loveing the ideas bfishy. I will dig out my copy of Mind Lords. I never ran it, now is a good time to borrow ideas from it. The Mind Lords want the location of the portals or have lost the ability to manipulate the portals themselves and the heroes to do it, and will torture the heroes mentally and physically to get what they want. They felt it when the heroes accessed the portal. The rebellion rescues the heroes, once they find out about their existance, after a little torture of course. Unfortunately there is a mind wiped mole within the rebellion. The Mind Lords can't control the mole directly, that would be detected. The mole can't get a message to the Mind Lords until after the heroes escape. The secret the heroes have is needed by the rebellion. They are to meet with the mysterious and secret leader of the rebellion. The Mind Lords don't give orders to recapture the heroes, but to allow them to lead the Mind Lords assassins to the rebellion leader. The heroes are betrayed by one of their own and the leader is killed. Will the heroes survive their darket hour to lead the rebellion and reclaim their friend that has been tainted?
I thought about this as well. I believe I'm going to have the inhabitants of the moons controlling the incoming gates so as to keep out the rabble from dying Athas. I want to expose the players to the moons as interlopers just long enough to get them kicked off by the native inhabitants.
Paradise lost and all that.
The authors of DS 4e did a very good job. I am impressed with a 4e product for once. I have been playing these games for a while now and have found that setting and creativity make an RPG good, not a rule set.
The us against the world idea is very good, makes for good conflict, and is prevelent through out the Dark Sun setting.
The Garden of Eden always makes for an epic quest.
Perhaps hunted and killed would be better conflict and the heroes barely escape to Athas with their lives. They beleive they have lost their hunters by leaving them on the moon, but the leaders of "Paradise Lost" can't allow the existence of their civilization to be known. Assasins are sent through the gate after the Heroes. The heroes now have a whole civilization alligned against them, who will they turn to for help? The Vieled Alliance, are they powerful enough to help them or even willing to allign themselves against the keepers of a green world? Perhaps the green worlders have been secret supporters of the VA all along. The VA have no idea who they really are of course, the green worlders can't allow anyone to know of their existence, not even their secret pawns the VA. The heroes turn to the VA for help, little do they know that they have been labeled as betrayers of the worst kind by the VA. Luckily one of heroes is VA and is not sentenced to punishment. Once the heroes escape with the party members help, who will they turn to? They have a whole civilization against them and a secret society against them. Who are the members of the VA? Could your brother be VA and more than willing to cary out your sentence, or maybe the caravan master you are traveling with? Who are the enemies of th VA? Your enemies' enemy is your friend. The Sorcerer-Kings would be more than willing to help, to meet their own selfish ends. Do the heroes sell their souls in order to keep breathing another day? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer or are they your friends now?
there is also a brief description in the cosmology section on page 17
Yes, short and susinct. It lays down how the 4e planes relate to Athas. It leaves open pocket planes, so that you are able to bring in Eladrin and the like, yet hints that they aren't mainstream Athas. I had my doubts about bringing Dragonborn into Athas, but it was done well, considering and pretty much left you the option to leave them out. My players are old school and I have yet to have one play a Dragonborn, so, moot point for me.
My Preferances
- I ran the Dark Sun 2e until my dice bled
-I have read most of the books
-Haven't run Dark Sun since 2e, it's been awhile
-Dark Sun campaign is the first 4e book to impress me, sorry 4e fanboys
-I will be running Dark Sun, my first 4e DM attempt
Questions
1. What material is out there on Athas's moons? I'm refering to the refernce of the moons being a garden paradise and a John Carter Mars type of enviorenment, if you don't know who John Carter is look up Edgar Rice Burroughs, Google knows all. Is this a new idea? It mentions the posibility of gates to the moons. If this is a new idea, bravo to which ever author came up with the idea.
2.What kind of creative ideas does the community have regarding these two possible settings? I am going to make it a high level setting and come up with a mechanic preventing the PC's from bring back water and metal, in order to keep a balance on Athas.
The creativity of the Dark Sun Campaign book has really started my own creative juices flowing. I am actually looking forward to a 4e session. I am interested in what the community can come up with.
Space
I also had an idea for a campaign outline after reading about the moons. My first thought upon seeing the mention of the moons was that there are probably some upstart defilers who would love to suck up the power of a pair of lush, living moons, but they probably don't know a reliable way to get there.
I thought I would introduce an antagonist (as a quest-giving NPC that the PCs don't realize is a powerful defiler) early on in the game that hires adventurers to discover moon gates and successfully use them. The adventurers find a gate or two in the Heroic Tier, but no one knows how to get them to work. The Heroic levels are still mainly about survival and exploration on Athas, then.
In the Paragon Tier, they are sent to find a scholar who has more comprehensive knowledge of the moons and the gates. Unfortunately, she disappeared. She was kidnapped by the Yuan Ti that apparently live on one of the moons when she was examining the Temple of the Sky Serpents. The book mentions that at certain times Yuan Ti spill out of the temple and into the forest at night... the entry screams "moon gate". So the Paragon levels are about going to the moon and battling the Yuan Ti. I felt a little bit weird about doing 20 levels of survival checks in the desert, anyway.
The rest of Paragon would be discovering the truth about their benefactor and their main source of quests from early in their careers, that he's a defiler and he wants to suck of the life force of the moons to become more powerful than the Sorcerer-Kings, and stopping him.
The Epic part of the campaign, if it got that far, would be about bringing something back from one of the moons that could improve life on Athas in some small way, and keeping it safe from the sorcerer-kings, so that the PCs leave their mark on the world.
An idea; Goodman games came out with an adventure-book called In Search of Adventure; one of the adventures is called 'Temple of the Snake God', and with some conversion it might be just what you're looking for re: heroic tier moongate-searching; it even has the requisite snake-men! I'm going to use it as a framework for a DS adventure myself.
Perhaps Ral, covered in water, was once a world of ice. Although frigid, it was rich in life, which crowded the volcanic mountains that breached the global glacier sea. On these warms peaks intelligent beings built vast stone cities that channeled magma rivers into aqueducts that warmed entire regions. When the sun was defiled, its relentless heat blasted the mountain cities to ash and melted the glaciers. The magma rivers floaded the new seas with deep world minerals, creating a vast world of acidic, poisoned ocean. Still, life survives, crowded around the island-mountains. Crews navigate the poisoned ocean in basalt ships, fishing for food from the creatures swim the acid depths.
Guthay was a different world. It was cool and rich in water. The surface was covered in green jungle, but Guthay's people lived below. A vast psionic civilization thrived in rock, with ancient cities cut miles deep. It was a world of billions of people that lived in peace. The defiling of the sun cut the jungle off from its life-giving energy. The radiant energy changed the jungle above. Desperate to live, the mutating plants sank their roots deep into the world's rocky crust and into the flesh of its people. Uncountable numbers of people were killed as the jungles above drank their blood. Now, the surface is covered in scarlet, blood-drinking jungle, and the civilizations below battle one another, sacrificing their captive enemies to the thirsty roots so they their own people are not drained to death.