One of the best accomplishments of 4E has been its ability to balance classes and define what an adequate challenge for a party. Thinking back to the Darksun, one of the big draws was each character was a god compared to the average player. Your stats were higher, you got psionics, and your racial bonuses were insane. At the same time, you were matched up against monsters that were evenly over powered and death came quick and often.
So my question is, are which direction are the designers going to go with DS4E? IMO the 4E system is designed to make survival relitivally easy. Almost dead? Eight hours of rest you are fine. Did you die? Pay some gold and you get up with a penalty for a little while. This is hardly a Dark Sun mentality. (Please do not take this as 4E beat down, I think the system is very fun.)
One of the changes I have been pondering for the 4E game system are as follows:
- All ability scores are increased by 2 points. Bringing default maximum to 20.
-One Racial Stat is +4 and the other is + 2. For example a Dwarf is +4 Con, +2 Wis.
These 2 changes should scue the Encounter levels that a party could handle up by 1-2 levels. Meaning a standard encounter for a 1st level party would be a 3rd level encounter as far as target numbers are concerned. But since the party will be lacking the abilities and hp of a 3rd level party the feeling of quick death will be back.
Opinions, or other ideas reguarding needed changes to the base 4E system?
Edit: I just wanted to note that this increase in encounter levels will greatly increase the speed at which leveling occurs.
I've been thinking about this too. In the DMG2 excepts (I haven't gotten the book yet), they're really emphasizing the differences between heroic, paragon and epic tiers.
Heroic is supposed to be simple. You don't have that many choices to make. If you do fail, then there aren't very many consequences. Passing means you move on...
Epic tier offers more responsibilty: the players have more options to choose from, and a pass will benefit them (and their universe) immensely, while a failure can be quite detremental. Ie they make choices like Gods...
Paragon lies somewhere in the middle.
I would assume that DS is a mixture of the two: few rewards like heroic tiers, but greater consequences like the epic tiers. The only difference is that the players have fewer options to choose from at lower levels than at higher levels.
One of the changes I have been pondering for the 4E game system are as follows:
- All ability scores are increased by 2 points. Bringing default maximum to 20.
-One Racial Stat is +4 and the other is + 2. For example a Dwarf is +4 Con, +2 Wis.
These 2 changes should scue the Encounter levels that a party could handle up by 1-2 levels. Meaning a standard encounter for a 1st level party would be a 3rd level encounter as far as target numbers are concerned. But since the party will be lacking the abilities and hp of a 3rd level party the feeling of quick death will be back.
I would love this change! Im not sure, however, if WotC will go this route since it would greatly change the base 4e system.
Athas will probably have some mechanic that will drain healing surges due to heat exposure, dehydration, hostile landscapes (aren't they all?), etc. Going into battles with less available healing will make combat more dangerous. Having several combat encounters between extended rests will probably have most characters depleted of healing surges.
Since 4e makes all characters a lot more able to handle damage at 1st level their is not as much need to give them a "bump" like they needed in 2e. (Although some of the attraction to playing Dark Sun has always been playing over-powered PCs.) There could be a lot more elite and solo monsters on Athas which would increase the threat level of DS encounters.
Armor Classes will probably be significantly lower (especially for defenders and any other characters used to heavy armor) if they continue with the piecemeal armor rules. The more armor you wear, the higher your AC, the more the environment sucks your healing surges away.
I really do hope WotC will retain the "bump" for DS PCs. I guess it boils down to how close WotC wants to stick to the base 4e system. They could probaly make Athas and its monsters more challenging while keeping the PCs on par with those of all other settings.
Side note: In 2e the base maximum was 20 before adding racial adjustments. How awesome would it be to play a 4e half-giant/goliath with 24 strength at 1st level! It's clobbering time!
One of the changes I have been pondering for the 4E game system are as follows:- All ability scores are increased by 2 points. Bringing default maximum to 20.
-One Racial Stat is +4 and the other is + 2. For example a Dwarf is +4 Con, +2 Wis.
I don't see the point. I never saw the +2 stat thing as "good" for Dark Sun anyway. I think a system to deal with the lack of armor would be much more important to the system.
And of course, a few minor (perhaps optional) changes to healing surges, so you end up with fewer of them (maybe), can't use second wind (so no healing in short rests without magic), and no free daily healing. And put some light restriction on the cleric's healing powers out-of-combat. (A cleric can heal twice per 5 minutes out of combat, with the only restrictions being the recipient's number of healing surges.)
Edit: I just wanted to note that this increase in encounter levels will greatly increase the speed at which leveling occurs.
So cut the XP. And the treasure. Can't forget the low-magic-itemness of the setting anyway.
I don't think it really even needs a boost to the monsters... the extra threat comes from the environment, and that's where they have a really great opportunity to do cool and innovative stuff. The effects of the extreme heat on people wearing armour, the careful tracking of water supplies, all of that would be neat to see in the setting. No need to hammer the PCs with general "always on" penalties, but make it an option (preferably the default option) to impose expenditure of healing surges when water runs out or if the environment is particularly harsh wherever they happen to be. Make the heat an enemy and part of every encounter.
The idea of more solo monsters does hold some appeal, if it doesn't just turn into a grindfest.
I don't see the point. I never saw the +2 stat thing as "good" for Dark Sun anyway. I think a system to deal with the lack of armor would be much more important to the system.
There might be a number of possible ways to deal with armor in Dark Sun 4E.
1. Heavy armors such as chain, scale, and plate still exist as normal, but are made from more setting-appropriate materials (like bone or obsidian) due to the scarcity of metal. This is probably the simplest way to implement things.
2. Most classes don't use armor heavier than hide, but gain a flat boost to AC (+2 or +3) to compensate. Or they might add CON/STR to AC as well as DEX/INT.
3. Some sort of environmental penalty to wearing heavy armor in high-temperature situations, like spending an automatic healing surge each encounter.
There might be a number of possible ways to deal with armor in Dark Sun 4E.
1. Heavy armors such as chain, scale, and plate still exist as normal, but are made from more setting-appropriate materials (like bone or obsidian) due to the scarcity of metal. This is probably the simplest way to implement things.
2. Most classes don't use armor heavier than hide, but gain a flat boost to AC (+2 or +3) to compensate. Or they might add CON/STR to AC as well as DEX/INT.
3. Some sort of environmental penalty to wearing heavy armor in high-temperature situations, like spending an automatic healing surge each encounter.
I think you are correct with 1 & 3. I hope they also revive the piecemeal armor system. It fits very well both thematically (scavenging for supplies) and mechanically (trade-off between AC and suffering from heat). I'm not sure if they will revive the gladiator class (although I hope they do!), but they could easily make an Athasian class feature or feat for Piecemeal Armor Optimization that would help boost AC for those on the front lines.
Sidenote: Back to the gladiator. A gladiator could be represented by any of the existing martial classes depending upon your vision of what kind of gladiator you want to play. The gladiator articles from DDI could help build any martial class into an effective gladiator. On the other hand, a gladiator, IMO, could be the martial controller we have been lacking. A gladiator has great knowledge of his surroundings, his opponents, his weapons, and tactics. He knows how to use the terrain to his advantage and to get the most out of his weapons. I don't believe it would be too much of a stretch to turn these things into a controller build. A martial controller would probably look quite different from the other controllers we have seen, but then again, WotC has been leaning in that direction with the PH3 and what they have said about 4e DS. They are showing the versatility of 4e and a martial controller would fit well with that concept.
Armour could include drake hide, chitin and more exotic things (like the psioncially made chainmail I've mentioned before) Rememebr, Athas already HAd exisiting exotic materials, some of which are exceptional , like drake hide and claws, and agafari wood. 
4th ed already has rules for heat exhaustion etc causing loss of healing surges, folks! it's in the DMG
I agree with Bran on the fact that being a "gladiator" doens't require a new class, it never did! gladiator is a profession, same as a templar. How the achieve their jobs doesn't matter, only the end result is what's important.
Ranger makes the best general gladiator, for sheer raw melee damage face to face, which the crowd likes but, surviviability, team play etc all come in to, so every class is acceptable (except wizards on Athas!)
likewise templars are bureacrats, enforcers and the like, first and foremost. Be it leading warbands (warlord), fanatical preserver hunter (could be cleric, or Avenger), to a non-combatant pen pusher (with nasty bodyguards!), their class doesn't define them, it's their role that does
There might be a number of possible ways to deal with armor in Dark Sun 4E.
1. Heavy armors such as chain, scale, and plate still exist as normal, but are made from more setting-appropriate materials (like bone or obsidian) due to the scarcity of metal. This is probably the simplest way to implement things.
I certainly see this happening.
There might be a number of possible ways to deal with armor in Dark Sun 4E.
2. Most classes don't use armor heavier than hide, but gain a flat boost to AC (+2 or +3) to compensate. Or they might add CON/STR to AC as well as DEX/INT.
Not likely, in my opinion.
There might be a number of possible ways to deal with armor in Dark Sun 4E.
3. Some sort of environmental penalty to wearing heavy armor in high-temperature situations, like spending an automatic healing surge each encounter.
The check penalty for heavy armor already applies to Endurance checks. Due to the severity of the environmental conditions on Athas, I could see this penalty being doubled or increased (in the case of scale) in some way.
Gladiators were already done, and done well by my opinion, in a Dragon article (which I believe ended up in the Dragon Compendium).
Mouthymerc
yes, the Gladiator article (and it is good!) is in the Dragon mag compendium
One thing I have done is stated that basically all the templars on duty in heavy armour in Tyr have magic armour of heat resistance, thus they can function in their duties...makes sense after all ;)
Most templars of course, aren't in armour but those that wish/must have it can either get a loan from stores, or make such.
Think about it, Athas has been hot for millenia, tempalrs have he best libraries of spelll reserach, thus they sure aren't going allow themselves to be baked on necessary duties!
Thieves though who'd love such, must note it's very ornately marked, and stealing such results in a particulalrly slow death...