Bard question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bard question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
guest2054654845
Jan 01, 2011 17:45:25 So it seems to me that a lot of the theme classes in the campaign setting would be great for bards. Does anyone use bards as not an arcane class? I just can't think of a bard as a defiler, but since they are considered an arcane power source, they must be in this setting. It just seems.... silly to me. I'm just wondering if anyone runs them as more of a martial class or if everyone leaves them as arcane. Being as a lot of bards abilities are voice related, i could see them being a martial style class.
#2
DontEatRawHagis
Jan 01, 2011 19:18:43 I dont have a bard in my group, but I do have a guy that likes to use the Athasian Minstrel theme with his martial classes. He likes to be an entertainer without having to choose a (in his opinion) horrible class.
#3
pitchblende
Jan 02, 2011 0:06:40 I was going to be running a Dark Sun game in a couple weeks with a guy who wants to play bard, so I'm curious to see the community's response to this thread! It will be a new experience for me, too.

I was going to have it technically considered arcane, but for most songs and battle shouts and things, it wouldn't be noticeable to anyone what was happening. Effects of spells would be chalked up to morale bonus inspired by the song. Exceptions would be made for less musically themed spells like Ode to Sacrifice, where the bard transfers a spell to another ally, would be seen probably as arcane. That is unless the player role-plays it really well...

I'll see how that works out soon enough. I'm curious to see how DMs posting here handle it though!
#4
Scyner
Jan 02, 2011 19:15:14 If you take the example of the character Magnus in the Prism Pentad, he was I guess a bard who was worshiping the winds, which makes sense considering most of the bard powers are songs / voice activated. This also fits nicely in the Dark Sun setting considering there are no gods and people tend to worship the elements. That would make it lean closer to Primal source I guess, but Psionic would also work in the DS Setting imho.

As far as mechanics, I would indeed not like to see bards leave a black spot of defilement around them in the middle of a song, it would also not be very stealthy for assassins either... So I would not give bads the option of defiling.
#5
Bera
Jan 02, 2011 23:52:29 Bards are only as musically inclined as you want to play one. They work perfectly well as sages and enchanters, which is basically how the guy in my group plays his bard.
#6
Raddu76
Jan 03, 2011 8:23:10 I never liked the bard class. While I understand the reason for it in the regular D&D rules, someone's gotta tell the stories of heroes.

So I loved it when Dark Sun came out originally and the bard was not your average minstrel. He was an assassin, and the rules reflected this. While bards were first and foremost entertainers and had all the encompassing skills to go with that they were a "Rogue" class, thus in 4e terms, martial. They didn't have any arcane skills whatsoever and instead of progressing in spells, they progressed in poisons!

I wouldn't require a bard to have magic, I would say to reflect the old school version of them they should be fighters/rogues. However, I could easily see a Defiler being a bard as a way to hide his defiling. A thoroughly corrupted being who uses poison on a whim and defiling to suit his ends.....I see the beginnings of an evil NPC here.
#7
angelus_obscura
Jan 03, 2011 14:19:55 I would say that bardic "magic" is not so much magic as it is a science. The thunder based powers would be voice modulations that produce various harmonics that can harm or heal. Ie, I've always explained my bard's Staggering Note power as a whistle that affected a target's inner ear with a pitch that induced vertigo. The other more esoteric "spells"could be reflavored to psionics. The weapon powers would remain as is, as they are basically martial-based attacks.

For utilities such as Veil, you could explain it as a low, subvocal hum that puts people under hypnosis, making them see what they want to see. If that is too weak a flavor, add a psionic component.

In Dark Sun, I would put bards in the same "guild" with assassins. Hell, I would hybridize them. I made a assassin/bard hybrid because I think the bard's virtue class feature is useless. The bard could draw their supernatural powers from the shadow power source if one does not want to lump them in with defilers and preservatives. :P
#8
omnijake
Jan 18, 2011 18:43:07 This thread brings up an interesting point, and bards have always been--if nothing else--a jack of all trades class. this is certainly how they are portrayed in 4e, therefor it was most convenient in standard rules to make them an arcane class because magic can so easily be adapted into a catch-all for descriptions. In Athas arcane is, of course, less common and more sinister so the more appropriate catch all is a Psionic power source, but a psion leader role is already present in 4e as the Ardent; if the Bard were to be labeled as a psion it would seem to be just a musically oriented Ardent.

So, in the sake of preserving bards as a separate class, I suggest not denying their status as an arcane user; I suggest embracing how different the world of Athas is (Dwarves don't have hair, Halfings are vicious cannibal's, Elves aren't aloof forest folk, et cetra) and picturing the Bard as a wandering traveler who has discovered how to tap into arcana(and by extension the planets vital energies) through music and lore--a traveler who in Athas is just as likely to defile once they discover the incredible amount of power it could bring, and who may choose to preserve once they realize the full ramifications of defiling. Bluntly put, don't be close-minded; allow yourself to challenge the preconceived notions you may have about the bard class--especially in a setting such as Dark Sun.

To make it more suitable flavor-wise when a Bard chooses to defile the magic they are using could have a visual element added to emphasize the power defiling adds to a spell.

For example a Bard uses Stirring Shout and chooses to defile:
DM: "the soil starts to blacken beneath your feet and you let out a battle cry, as your comrades feel the sting of you drawing from their life force, the magical energies being channeled through your body manifest as a barbed concussive waves that batter your opponent.

Bard's Player: "Sweet"

Other player's: "You !"

This time a Bard chooses to defile using Slayer's Song:
DM: You sing merrily as you slash at your foe. All the while the plants near you begin to wither as your scimitar glows red with blood lust...

All Player's: "Dude, has your girl friend been making you watch Dexter again?"

See Bards can be just as homicidal and manically disturbing as any other character in Dark Sun!

Just remember, Dark Sun isn't the same D&D--as a player, and DM you must be willing to challenge your established views for this setting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 guest2054654845 Jan 01, 2011 17:45:25	So it seems to me that a lot of the theme classes in the campaign setting would be great for bards. Does anyone use bards as not an arcane class? I just can't think of a bard as a defiler, but since they are considered an arcane power source, they must be in this setting. It just seems.... silly to me. I'm just wondering if anyone runs them as more of a martial class or if everyone leaves them as arcane. Being as a lot of bards abilities are voice related, i could see them being a martial style class.
#2 DontEatRawHagis Jan 01, 2011 19:18:43	I dont have a bard in my group, but I do have a guy that likes to use the Athasian Minstrel theme with his martial classes. He likes to be an entertainer without having to choose a (in his opinion) horrible class.
#3 pitchblende Jan 02, 2011 0:06:40	I was going to be running a Dark Sun game in a couple weeks with a guy who wants to play bard, so I'm curious to see the community's response to this thread! It will be a new experience for me, too. I was going to have it technically considered arcane, but for most songs and battle shouts and things, it wouldn't be noticeable to anyone what was happening. Effects of spells would be chalked up to morale bonus inspired by the song. Exceptions would be made for less musically themed spells like Ode to Sacrifice, where the bard transfers a spell to another ally, would be seen probably as arcane. That is unless the player role-plays it really well... I'll see how that works out soon enough. I'm curious to see how DMs posting here handle it though!
#4 Scyner Jan 02, 2011 19:15:14	If you take the example of the character Magnus in the Prism Pentad, he was I guess a bard who was worshiping the winds, which makes sense considering most of the bard powers are songs / voice activated. This also fits nicely in the Dark Sun setting considering there are no gods and people tend to worship the elements. That would make it lean closer to Primal source I guess, but Psionic would also work in the DS Setting imho. As far as mechanics, I would indeed not like to see bards leave a black spot of defilement around them in the middle of a song, it would also not be very stealthy for assassins either... So I would not give bads the option of defiling.
#5 Bera Jan 02, 2011 23:52:29	Bards are only as musically inclined as you want to play one. They work perfectly well as sages and enchanters, which is basically how the guy in my group plays his bard.
#6 Raddu76 Jan 03, 2011 8:23:10	I never liked the bard class. While I understand the reason for it in the regular D&D rules, someone's gotta tell the stories of heroes. So I loved it when Dark Sun came out originally and the bard was not your average minstrel. He was an assassin, and the rules reflected this. While bards were first and foremost entertainers and had all the encompassing skills to go with that they were a "Rogue" class, thus in 4e terms, martial. They didn't have any arcane skills whatsoever and instead of progressing in spells, they progressed in poisons! I wouldn't require a bard to have magic, I would say to reflect the old school version of them they should be fighters/rogues. However, I could easily see a Defiler being a bard as a way to hide his defiling. A thoroughly corrupted being who uses poison on a whim and defiling to suit his ends.....I see the beginnings of an evil NPC here.
#7 angelus_obscura Jan 03, 2011 14:19:55	I would say that bardic "magic" is not so much magic as it is a science. The thunder based powers would be voice modulations that produce various harmonics that can harm or heal. Ie, I've always explained my bard's Staggering Note power as a whistle that affected a target's inner ear with a pitch that induced vertigo. The other more esoteric "spells"could be reflavored to psionics. The weapon powers would remain as is, as they are basically martial-based attacks. For utilities such as Veil, you could explain it as a low, subvocal hum that puts people under hypnosis, making them see what they want to see. If that is too weak a flavor, add a psionic component. In Dark Sun, I would put bards in the same "guild" with assassins. Hell, I would hybridize them. I made a assassin/bard hybrid because I think the bard's virtue class feature is useless. The bard could draw their supernatural powers from the shadow power source if one does not want to lump them in with defilers and preservatives. :P
#8 omnijake Jan 18, 2011 18:43:07	This thread brings up an interesting point, and bards have always been--if nothing else--a jack of all trades class. this is certainly how they are portrayed in 4e, therefor it was most convenient in standard rules to make them an arcane class because magic can so easily be adapted into a catch-all for descriptions. In Athas arcane is, of course, less common and more sinister so the more appropriate catch all is a Psionic power source, but a psion leader role is already present in 4e as the Ardent; if the Bard were to be labeled as a psion it would seem to be just a musically oriented Ardent. So, in the sake of preserving bards as a separate class, I suggest not denying their status as an arcane user; I suggest embracing how different the world of Athas is (Dwarves don't have hair, Halfings are vicious cannibal's, Elves aren't aloof forest folk, et cetra) and picturing the Bard as a wandering traveler who has discovered how to tap into arcana(and by extension the planets vital energies) through music and lore--a traveler who in Athas is just as likely to defile once they discover the incredible amount of power it could bring, and who may choose to preserve once they realize the full ramifications of defiling. Bluntly put, don't be close-minded; allow yourself to challenge the preconceived notions you may have about the bard class--especially in a setting such as Dark Sun. To make it more suitable flavor-wise when a Bard chooses to defile the magic they are using could have a visual element added to emphasize the power defiling adds to a spell. For example a Bard uses Stirring Shout and chooses to defile: DM: "the soil starts to blacken beneath your feet and you let out a battle cry, as your comrades feel the sting of you drawing from their life force, the magical energies being channeled through your body manifest as a barbed concussive waves that batter your opponent. Bard's Player: "Sweet" Other player's: "You !" This time a Bard chooses to defile using Slayer's Song: DM: You sing merrily as you slash at your foe. All the while the plants near you begin to wither as your scimitar glows red with blood lust... All Player's: "Dude, has your girl friend been making you watch Dexter again?" See Bards can be just as homicidal and manically disturbing as any other character in Dark Sun! Just remember, Dark Sun isn't the same D&D--as a player, and DM you must be willing to challenge your established views for this setting.